RM IB Coordinator?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I think that there's a meaningful difference between offering the IB program to all MCPS students and requiring the IB program of all MCPS students. Don't you? Just like MCPS offers AP classes to all MCPS students but does not require all MCPS students to take AP classes.

Actually, I do agree. Everyone should lobby to get more funds to public schools so that IB can be offered to every student. IB remains more expensive than AP, because of the cost and time involved in getting the school accredited, the teachers trained and the other IB rubrics adhered to. The IB organization has many safeguards in place to ensure that strict quality control is adhered to in the school.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink!! If your kid is doing poorly, it's not b/c lack of IB!!

Who said that anybody's kid is doing poorly? My own kid is doing fine. Notwithstanding how my kid is doing, it is a fact that there are lots of kids in MCPS (including mine) who do not have the option of doing IB.

They should have the option, but there is also a good chance that if it's not for a magnet program (drawing able students from multiple schools), no school would have had enough students finishing the program, and in the end, no IB program to anyone.

Good news! It's already done in many schools.

1 elementary school offer PYP in MCPS
9 middle schools offer MYP in MCPS
7 high schools offer MYP in MCPS
8 high schools offer the IB diploma in MCPS

Source:http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/enriched/about/IB%20in%20MCPS%202015-2016.pdf

+ 1. I had not thought of the IB magnet program as serving this purpose. It is true that they serve the needs of a sizeable number of students from MCPS schools and this allows the RMIB program to actually create a quality blue print for other MCPS schools to follow that want to bring IB in their school.

My relative is an IB teacher in Seneca Valley HS. She laments the lack of enough students that want to do the full IB diploma program. Most of the times even smart kids who are used to MCPS easy A's do not have the confidence to compete internationally with other IB students. As I mentioned before that there is no MCPS grade inflation when your paper is being graded in Switzerland or England.

Before we start offering IB to every high school maybe we should concentrate in bringing the IB to the elementary schools (called Primary Year Program - PYP) and middle schools (called Middle Year Program - MYP) - at the very least in the feeder schools of IB high schools.

Having IB in your school does not preclude you from taking AP courses or exams. Since IB diploma exams only happen in 11th and 12th grade, most RMIB students also take AP courses in 9th and 10th grades. Being an IB student does not preclude you from taking AP exams. In 11th and 12th grade, these IB students just study for their IB exam and usually show up to take AP exams in the same subject (as their IB exam) without any prep. The reason is that the AP exam looks incredibly easy after the IB exam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that there's a meaningful difference between offering the IB program to all MCPS students and requiring the IB program of all MCPS students. Don't you? Just like MCPS offers AP classes to all MCPS students but does not require all MCPS students to take AP classes.

Actually, I do agree. Everyone should lobby to get more funds to public schools so that IB can be offered to every student. IB remains more expensive than AP, because of the cost and time involved in getting the school accredited, the teachers trained and the other IB rubrics adhered to. The IB organization has many safeguards in place to ensure that strict quality control is adhered to in the school.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink!! If your kid is doing poorly, it's not b/c lack of IB!!

Who said that anybody's kid is doing poorly? My own kid is doing fine. Notwithstanding how my kid is doing, it is a fact that there are lots of kids in MCPS (including mine) who do not have the option of doing IB.

They should have the option, but there is also a good chance that if it's not for a magnet program (drawing able students from multiple schools), no school would have had enough students finishing the program, and in the end, no IB program to anyone.

+ 1. I had not thought of the IB magnet program as serving this purpose. It is true that they serve the needs of a sizeable number of students from MCPS schools and this allows the RMIB program to actually create a quality blue print for other MCPS schools to follow that want to bring IB in their school.

My relative is an IB teacher in Seneca Valley HS. She laments the lack of enough students that want to do the full IB diploma program. Most of the times even smart kids who are used to MCPS easy A's do not have the confidence to compete internationally with other IB students. As I mentioned before that there is no MCPS grade inflation when your paper is being graded in Switzerland or England.

Before we start offering IB to every high school maybe we should concentrate in bringing the IB to the elementary schools (called Primary Year Program - PYP) and middle schools (called Middle Year Program - MYP) - at the very least in the feeder schools of IB high schools.

Having IB in your school does not preclude you from taking AP courses or exams. Since IB diploma exams only happen in 11th and 12th grade, most RMIB students also take AP courses in 9th and 10th grades. Being an IB student does not preclude you from taking AP exams. In 11th and 12th grade, these IB students just study for their IB exam and usually show up to take AP exams in the same subject (as their IB exam) without any prep. The reason is that the AP exam looks incredibly easy after the IB exam.

this is exactly what i meant - you can lead horse to water but you can't... why take a difficult path is kids (and many parents) attitude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that there's a meaningful difference between offering the IB program to all MCPS students and requiring the IB program of all MCPS students. Don't you? Just like MCPS offers AP classes to all MCPS students but does not require all MCPS students to take AP classes.

Actually, I do agree. Everyone should lobby to get more funds to public schools so that IB can be offered to every student. IB remains more expensive than AP, because of the cost and time involved in getting the school accredited, the teachers trained and the other IB rubrics adhered to. The IB organization has many safeguards in place to ensure that strict quality control is adhered to in the school.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink!! If your kid is doing poorly, it's not b/c lack of IB!!

Who said that anybody's kid is doing poorly? My own kid is doing fine. Notwithstanding how my kid is doing, it is a fact that there are lots of kids in MCPS (including mine) who do not have the option of doing IB.

They should have the option, but there is also a good chance that if it's not for a magnet program (drawing able students from multiple schools), no school would have had enough students finishing the program, and in the end, no IB program to anyone.

+ 1. I had not thought of the IB magnet program as serving this purpose. It is true that they serve the needs of a sizeable number of students from MCPS schools and this allows the RMIB program to actually create a quality blue print for other MCPS schools to follow that want to bring IB in their school.

My relative is an IB teacher in Seneca Valley HS. She laments the lack of enough students that want to do the full IB diploma program. Most of the times even smart kids who are used to MCPS easy A's do not have the confidence to compete internationally with other IB students. As I mentioned before that there is no MCPS grade inflation when your paper is being graded in Switzerland or England.

Before we start offering IB to every high school maybe we should concentrate in bringing the IB to the elementary schools (called Primary Year Program - PYP) and middle schools (called Middle Year Program - MYP) - at the very least in the feeder schools of IB high schools.

Having IB in your school does not preclude you from taking AP courses or exams. Since IB diploma exams only happen in 11th and 12th grade, most RMIB students also take AP courses in 9th and 10th grades. Being an IB student does not preclude you from taking AP exams. In 11th and 12th grade, these IB students just study for their IB exam and usually show up to take AP exams in the same subject (as their IB exam) without any prep. The reason is that the AP exam looks incredibly easy after the IB exam.

Good news! It's already done in many schools.

1 elementary school offer PYP in MCPS
9 middle schools offer MYP in MCPS
7 high schools offer MYP in MCPS
8 high schools offer the IB diploma in MCPS

Source:http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/enriched/about/IB%20in%20MCPS%202015-2016.pdf

[Anonymous]

I am having a hard time following this debate. The way I look at it, the county offers IB programs in several MCPS high schools. IB is a fabulous program and as long as there are other options for students who are less academically oriented it seems like these high schools are doing a great job offering interested students a highly rigorous and academically challenging high school experience.
Then there is a test-in magnet program at RM which admits just over a hundred students a year after receiving close to a thousand applications. This shows that there is high demand for this kind of academic experience. What makes this program different from the other IB programs at say Einstein or BCC? I would imagine the peer group, the expectations placed on the students by the teachers and the pace and level of instruction in the classroom. I don't have direct experience with RMIB (my child got in but chose to go to Blair SMAC instead) but we know many families with children in the program as well as families whose kids have graduated from the program and this is what they tell us. My child has been in three magnet programs and what these families tell me does seem consistent with his experience - the peer group does make a big difference. So, it isn't just that their 12th grade research paper might be of higher quality or that they are more likely to earn their diploma (I am not aware of any IB program in the country with a more successful record in this area), because of the additional academic rigor/depth and higher expectations, many kids are happier because they are with kids who truly understand and accept them. This is one of the advantages a test in magnet program has over a GT program in a local school cluster which would serve the top 10-15% of the students. There is an argument for more localized GT programs especially at the elementary and middle school level and of course many area high schools offer highly advanced students AP and IB programs. Despite this, at the high school level, many students in the top 5% are just not going to be happy in their home high school even if their school offers numerous AP and/or an IB program. We encouraged ds to strongly consider his home (Bethesda area) high school but he really wanted to go to a magnet high school because of the learning environment and because of the peer group. There are parents who push their children into these programs and make them stay even when they are unhappy or struggling but these are a minority. It is incorrect and cruel to stereotype the kids in these programs as kids who are coached/pushed to get in, have to be coached/pushed to succeed, are stressed/unhappy etc. There are lots of different types of kids in these programs. In the high school magnets they tend to be more uniformly hard working (in part because the application process screens for this) but there are lots of kids who love music, who write, who paint, who act, who are athletes in addition to being great students who love to learn. I am aware that I am more familiar with the SMAC program which has a lot of camaraderie and the kids seem to laugh a lot in class and I have heard RMIB is more of a pressure cooker but even with that caveat, most of the kids I know who are now in RMIB chose to go there and most of these kids live in areas with high performing high schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am having a hard time following this debate. The way I look at it, the county offers IB programs in several MCPS high schools. IB is a fabulous program and as long as there are other options for students who are less academically oriented it seems like these high schools are doing a great job offering interested students a highly rigorous and academically challenging high school experience.
Then there is a test-in magnet program at RM which admits just over a hundred students a year after receiving close to a thousand applications. This shows that there is high demand for this kind of academic experience. What makes this program different from the other IB programs at say Einstein or BCC? I would imagine the peer group, the expectations placed on the students by the teachers and the pace and level of instruction in the classroom. I don't have direct experience with RMIB (my child got in but chose to go to Blair SMAC instead) but we know many families with children in the program as well as families whose kids have graduated from the program and this is what they tell us. My child has been in three magnet programs and what these families tell me does seem consistent with his experience - the peer group does make a big difference. So, it isn't just that their 12th grade research paper might be of higher quality or that they are more likely to earn their diploma (I am not aware of any IB program in the country with a more successful record in this area), because of the additional academic rigor/depth and higher expectations, many kids are happier because they are with kids who truly understand and accept them. This is one of the advantages a test in magnet program has over a GT program in a local school cluster which would serve the top 10-15% of the students. There is an argument for more localized GT programs especially at the elementary and middle school level and of course many area high schools offer highly advanced students AP and IB programs. Despite this, at the high school level, many students in the top 5% are just not going to be happy in their home high school even if their school offers numerous AP and/or an IB program. We encouraged ds to strongly consider his home (Bethesda area) high school but he really wanted to go to a magnet high school because of the learning environment and because of the peer group. There are parents who push their children into these programs and make them stay even when they are unhappy or struggling but these are a minority. It is incorrect and cruel to stereotype the kids in these programs as kids who are coached/pushed to get in, have to be coached/pushed to succeed, are stressed/unhappy etc. There are lots of different types of kids in these programs. In the high school magnets they tend to be more uniformly hard working (in part because the application process screens for this) but there are lots of kids who love music, who write, who paint, who act, who are athletes in addition to being great students who love to learn. I am aware that I am more familiar with the SMAC program which has a lot of camaraderie and the kids seem to laugh a lot in class and I have heard RMIB is more of a pressure cooker but even with that caveat, most of the kids I know who are now in RMIB chose to go there and most of these kids live in areas with high performing high schools.

+1. You are spot on.

RMIB parent

[Anonymous]

This thread went off the track like all DCUM threads.

To get back to the topic - Jennifer Hoover is a very competent IB coordinator for the RMIB program and a lot of the success in terms of the Diploma rates etc has come because of her engagement with the students and parents. MCPS has become very anti-achievement in recent years. To dilute this program will not serve any purpose. Perhaps MCPS needs to pay attention to creating different tracks for students of all abilities, needs and interests.

[Anonymous]

Totally agree with the 6/22, 14:51 post. Its about the teachers and cohort and recognizing that a certain type of student does better in the magnet environment. And as an RMIB parent, I am happy to have this option for one of my children, who would be bored at the local (very good) high school.

But can we please get back to news about the coordinator? Her name appears in a few places on the website, but she is not in the school or MCPS directory, which is an indication that she is gone. Nothing has been communicated to the parents. Any info on Mrs. Hoover and the new coordinator would be appreciated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Totally agree with the 6/22, 14:51 post. Its about the teachers and cohort and recognizing that a certain type of student does better in the magnet environment. And as an RMIB parent, I am happy to have this option for one of my children, who would be bored at the local (very good) high school.

But can we please get back to news about the coordinator? Her name appears in a few places on the website, but she is not in the school or MCPS directory, which is an indication that she is gone. Nothing has been communicated to the parents. Any info on Mrs. Hoover and the new coordinator would be appreciated.

Of her name is not found on the staff search list, she's taken leave of absence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My high achieving RM non-magnet student was exposed to PYP and MYP and thrilled to leave it behind after 10th grade. Not the workload or the competitive kids..just the structure of the classes and writing style. So happy to never hear the term reflection again!! He literally put the application form in the fire place and watched it burn. That is not to say it can not be a wonderful program for the right kid.

This is a hearty endorsement for the inclusivity of RMIB program. Yes, it is open to all RM students - magnet or non-magnet. Very few non-magnet students opt in to do the program because it is not the right program for them. Every RM student have access and opportunity to do this. Majority of the talk about magnet IB not being inclusive is coming from the parents of students who are not interested in doing the program in the first place. The same goes for AP courses. No one can force a kid to be on the AP track or take an AP course. Either the kid is interested and capable or they are not.

Let me draw a parallel - all the people who are in US Navy, do not train to be a Navy Seal. It is the very few who have the ability and the determination that get chosen to become Navy Seals - mainly because it is tougher than being a sailor. AP , IB, Magnet - requires a lot of sacrifice of time and effort

The magnet programs were never put in place to serve the needs of the highly gifted children in MCPS. It was put in place as a poorly conceived social engineering experiment in low performing schools. Perhaps, MCPS should create seperate majority magnet schools like Poolesville HS. That way there will not be a school within a school.

This is factually incorrect. The test-in magnet programs in MCPS were established for gifted education, and they were placed in the schools they were placed because that's where there was room at the time. There's more information about the history of the test-in magnet programs in the study by Metis Associates.

PP is correct. The magnet schools were created to assist in voluntary desegregation. http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/info/choice/ChoiceStudyReport-Version2-20160307.pdf See pg. 19

" Magnet programs at the secondary level were initially developed to support voluntary desegregation efforts, although their selective admissions criteria distinguished them from them early elementary magnets. In the mid-1980's, the same demographic changes that prompted the creation of the elementary magnets spurred efforts to develop programs at the secondary level to maintain racial diversity in the southeastern areas of the district, consistent with Policy ACD, Quality Integrated Eduction, and avoid concerns about "White flight". In response, the Board approved the opening of a Math, Science, and Computer Science manget program at Montgomery Blair HS in 1982 and crated middle (then called intermediate) school magnet programs at Takoma Park MS in 1984 and Eastern MS in 1986."

Yup. It was placed in RM because it was a dump of a school. I went there. It was awful. They moved an entire elementary school out of Wootton and into RM because of "low enrollment" too but it was really the same thing; make it look like a better school than just Lincoln Park and Twinbrook. White it up a little. The IB program was made to increase test scores and make it look like a better school. The End. MCPS does not care about gifted kids. If they did, they would start tracking them from K. Instead, they bus them to even out test scores. And parents actually think they are doing this for their kid's benefit?

I attended (and got an IB diploma from) the RM IB magnet program in the early 1990s, and I couldn't disagree more with you on the question of whether the program benefited its students when it was initially set up. I was perfectly happy not to go to the W-school I was zoned for, AND I got to meet and become close friends with kids from all over the county. Taking the bus really wasn't that much of a hassle.

[Anonymous]

I don't know if your children communicate with you but the inclusitivity of magnet programs at a social level is solely dependent on the student's perceptions of the other student body. This comes from someone who went to GT elementary school and completed a magnet middle school experience at a school where the divide was strong. The divide is harsh partly because people already have it in their mind that the opposite body is inferior to them. It seems that in this forum, people believe that magnet kids turn their noses up to any non-magnet student because they aren't worthy of their intelligent tangents on astrophysics. No. Of course some magnet students may act that way, I know many people who are going into magnet programs in HS from non magnet schools that believe that someone who isn't as intelligent as them aren't worthy of respect. But at the same time, there are certain non magnet students who think that if you don't listen to the latest 21 Savage track you're just a nerd and equally worthy of being dismissed. I have made many non magnet friends in middle school that have said "Wow I never knew that magnet kids could be like us too. I thought you guys just do math and work all day." It's unfortunate but there's a mutual disrespect for one another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My high achieving RM non-magnet student was exposed to PYP and MYP and thrilled to leave it behind after 10th grade. Not the workload or the competitive kids..just the structure of the classes and writing style. So happy to never hear the term reflection again!! He literally put the application form in the fire place and watched it burn. That is not to say it can not be a wonderful program for the right kid.

This is a hearty endorsement for the inclusivity of RMIB program. Yes, it is open to all RM students - magnet or non-magnet. Very few non-magnet students opt in to do the program because it is not the right program for them. Every RM student have access and opportunity to do this. Majority of the talk about magnet IB not being inclusive is coming from the parents of students who are not interested in doing the program in the first place. The same goes for AP courses. No one can force a kid to be on the AP track or take an AP course. Either the kid is interested and capable or they are not.

Let me draw a parallel - all the people who are in US Navy, do not train to be a Navy Seal. It is the very few who have the ability and the determination that get chosen to become Navy Seals - mainly because it is tougher than being a sailor. AP , IB, Magnet - requires a lot of sacrifice of time and effort

The magnet programs were never put in place to serve the needs of the highly gifted children in MCPS. It was put in place as a poorly conceived social engineering experiment in low performing schools. Perhaps, MCPS should create seperate majority magnet schools like Poolesville HS. That way there will not be a school within a school.

This is factually incorrect. The test-in magnet programs in MCPS were established for gifted education, and they were placed in the schools they were placed because that's where there was room at the time. There's more information about the history of the test-in magnet programs in the study by Metis Associates.

PP is correct. The magnet schools were created to assist in voluntary desegregation. http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/info/choice/ChoiceStudyReport-Version2-20160307.pdf See pg. 19

" Magnet programs at the secondary level were initially developed to support voluntary desegregation efforts, although their selective admissions criteria distinguished them from them early elementary magnets. In the mid-1980's, the same demographic changes that prompted the creation of the elementary magnets spurred efforts to develop programs at the secondary level to maintain racial diversity in the southeastern areas of the district, consistent with Policy ACD, Quality Integrated Eduction, and avoid concerns about "White flight". In response, the Board approved the opening of a Math, Science, and Computer Science manget program at Montgomery Blair HS in 1982 and crated middle (then called intermediate) school magnet programs at Takoma Park MS in 1984 and Eastern MS in 1986."

Yup. It was placed in RM because it was a dump of a school. I went there. It was awful. They moved an entire elementary school out of Wootton and into RM because of "low enrollment" too but it was really the same thing; make it look like a better school than just Lincoln Park and Twinbrook. White it up a little. The IB program was made to increase test scores and make it look like a better school. The End. MCPS does not care about gifted kids. If they did, they would start tracking them from K. Instead, they bus them to even out test scores. And parents actually think they are doing this for their kid's benefit?

? You are comparing the school 20 yrs ago to now? It's a completely different school.

MCPS probably did put IB in RMHS to attract wealthier white/asian people, and I guess it worked. Look at the demographics for JWMS, which is a non magnet school. About 20% Asian, which is pretty high for MCPS, and 33% white. That cluster looks totally different than it did 20 yrs ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do any MCPS IB high schools offer the IB career track? Why not?

Rockville High has it.

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/schools/rockvillehs/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it absolutely strange how non-magnet parents have an opinion about the program that does not take away from their children at all or impact them in any way. Would love some RMIB magnet parents to give their opinion about what is happening in the school.

Sometimes it is one person who can make or break a program. Hoover is/was the reason that the diploma rate is so high. The program is inclusive and the IB part is open to ANY student who wants to do it in the school. You would assume that everyone would jump at the opportunity to get in the magnet program or do the IB diploma. I guess the magnet IB workload and an extremely high achieving peer group dissuades many others from doing the program.

Unfortunately, there is no way the school can water down the program and still fulfill the IB requirement. MCPS mantra has been to lower capability, merit and achievement to create the illusion that students are not performing at different levels.

IB is open to kids within RM boundaries. Springbrook, Watkins Mill, Seneca Valley, BCC, Kennedy & Einstein have open enrollment, too - for those within the NEC & DCC consortia. This isn't the case for RM. it's a test in that skims off the top, which - as I've said before - is NOT inclusive.

So we either add IB to ALL high schools or end the magnet testing. In the non- test in school, the standards are exactly the same. It is an international program with set regulations. These teachers don't "water down" the program either.

I'm in the system, and while I'm not a magnet parent, I know of what I speak.

It actually is the case for 11th grade neighborhood non-magnet kids at RM. The difference is just the first two years. At those other schools, kids that will do IB in 11th do not take special classes until then. They only take certain requirements to do IB in 11th but those are open to other students as well. For example RM IB kids take APGOV in 9th grade..but there are no non-magnet kids in the class.

I have a DD at Einstein. Pre-IB courses are available in English for 9th and 10th grade, as well as Biology in 9th grade. This makes 3 levels of courses: on-level, honors, and pre-IB. 10th grade pre-IB students are also encouraged to take a European History course in 10th grade that teaches students how to write a research paper. These pre-IB classes are open to all, but designed to ease entry into the official IB program. Anyone can sign up for 9th grade AP US History.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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I don't know... you sound like a "my kid can't get in so no one should" parent... envy and jealousy are not good for your health.

I think it's a valid point. IB should be available to all MCPS students, which it currently is not. And if IB were available to all MCPS students, what would be the reason for an additional test-in magnet program for IB?

MCPS can't afford to have IB in all schools without increasing the budget significantly..

Why not? MCPS has AP classes in all schools.

IB programs are MUCH more expensive for schools to have. There is a fee of tens of thousands of dollars that each school has to pay. Then, each teacher MUST attend official IB training. AP teachers simply submit a syllabus. If they want to attend training, that's optional. There are AP training classes for teachers at Montgomery College each summer. IB teachers must be trained by an international organization. Also, the IB exams are expensive. Schools have to have funds available to help students who can't afford them.

[Anonymous]

Watkins Mill HS also has the IB career-related certificate.