Where to move in montgomery county for good schools???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:15:41 here.

I'm the one who posted links to the data. You need to explain to me what's so offensive. You also need to explain how I "put down" or "stomped on" the disadvantaged. Maybe you'll also show me where I claimed ESL, FARMS, or SPED students are detrimental to a school's success. I don't think I did any of that.

Other people were comparing and contrasting Bethesda schools with Silver Spring schools, so I posted links to testing data from those schools. The data show that the schools are pretty evenly matched for most kids, that FARMS/ESL/SPED students have notably lower test scores than all others, and that Blair has lots more ESL/FARMS/SPED students than BCC -- so my conclusion was (and is) that the aggregate test score numbers for Blair are lowered by the larger number of these students at that school. I'm not advocating for any change in policy for those students. Note that it's Montgomery County, not me, that breaks out the data for ESL/SPED/FARMS -- maybe you think the school district is stomping on those children too?

I welcome some more thoughtful explanation of your attack on me that's not just more knee-jerk criticism. If I am being inadvertently offensive, I'm happy to be educated -- but your criticism so far is just completely baseless and off-the-mark.

This is not a knee-jerk reaction. I am responding b/c I have years of experience in the system.

Unfortunately, the data is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, the disaggregated data gives an overall picture of student achievement at each school. On the other hand, parents often use the data as an excuse to move or to choose private school.

In our consortium, there is one school that attracts more whites, and although our area is diverse, that particular school is not a true reflection of the area's population. So you tell me WHY these parents (the ones I've spoken to) are sending their kids there? "It's a better fit for my child" is something I hear quite often. What in the hell does that mean?

Furthermore, if you disaggregate ESOL and SPED by FARMS, you'll probably notice that most students in the "better" areas are not receiving financial assistance. ESOL students, in many cases, are children of diplomats or come from a privileged background. And those receiving special accommodations from the school system often receive private services as well b/c their parents can afford the expense. So there is a difference between those at Blair and those at Whitman, for example.

So who's to blame? the poor immigrants forced to work around the clock who can barely pay rent in Silver Spring or the wealthy who can afford to purchase top-dollar homes?

It's not the fault of the system; the system is attempting to address the inequities. In our defense, teachers receive training in human relations and cultural diversity as a way to level the playing field. So this need to find the "best schools in Mo Co" is a societal issue, and parents in the know can twist the data to work in their favor to justify their reasons for choosing a "better school" in a nice area.

no knee-jerk reaction from me
just the slap-in-the-face truth

People refuse to see the faces behind the numbers, which is truly sad.

[Anonymous]

"If we want to have diversity in the MoCo schools, people should be able to have candid discussions about how students who come from families with resources and/or a commitment to education (and I recognize they are not always the same, although they often are) fare when they attend schools that also serve substantial numbers of ESOL and FARMS kids, etc. One way that people might have that discussion is to look at what the test scores at schools like Einstein and Kennedy look like when adjusted for the higher percentage of students from challenged environments who attend those schools. "

I think that's a great point PP made. I also did not find her comments offensive about adjusting overall scores for the factually lower FARMS, ESOL and SPED scores to try to get a feel for what the rest of the school's population is testing at. That's factual information and as PP mentioned might give some parents more reassurance about sending their kids to a school that otherwise has bad test scores.

Sympathy for the situation of the kids included in any of those brackets is totally irrelevant to the point PP's making. Of course people sympathize w/ those kids - but the question is whether the school is a good one that most people w/ a choice would want to send their kids to or not if they had that option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:15:41 here.

I'm the one who posted links to the data. You need to explain to me what's so offensive. You also need to explain how I "put down" or "stomped on" the disadvantaged. Maybe you'll also show me where I claimed ESL, FARMS, or SPED students are detrimental to a school's success. I don't think I did any of that.

Other people were comparing and contrasting Bethesda schools with Silver Spring schools, so I posted links to testing data from those schools. The data show that the schools are pretty evenly matched for most kids, that FARMS/ESL/SPED students have notably lower test scores than all others, and that Blair has lots more ESL/FARMS/SPED students than BCC -- so my conclusion was (and is) that the aggregate test score numbers for Blair are lowered by the larger number of these students at that school. I'm not advocating for any change in policy for those students. Note that it's Montgomery County, not me, that breaks out the data for ESL/SPED/FARMS -- maybe you think the school district is stomping on those children too?

I welcome some more thoughtful explanation of your attack on me that's not just more knee-jerk criticism. If I am being inadvertently offensive, I'm happy to be educated -- but your criticism so far is just completely baseless and off-the-mark.

This is not a knee-jerk reaction. I am responding b/c I have years of experience in the system.

Unfortunately, the data is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, the disaggregated data gives an overall picture of student achievement at each school. On the other hand, parents often use the data as an excuse to move or to choose private school.

In our consortium, there is one school that attracts more whites, and although our area is diverse, that particular school is not a true reflection of the area's population. So you tell me WHY these parents (the ones I've spoken to) are sending their kids there? "It's a better fit for my child" is something I hear quite often. What in the hell does that mean?

Furthermore, if you disaggregate ESOL and SPED by FARMS, you'll probably notice that most students in the "better" areas are not receiving financial assistance. ESOL students, in many cases, are children of diplomats or come from a privileged background. And those receiving special accommodations from the school system often receive private services as well b/c their parents can afford the expense. So there is a difference between those at Blair and those at Whitman, for example.

So who's to blame? the poor immigrants forced to work around the clock who can barely pay rent in Silver Spring or the wealthy who can afford to purchase top-dollar homes?

It's not the fault of the system; the system is attempting to address the inequities. In our defense, teachers receive training in human relations and cultural diversity as a way to level the playing field. So this need to find the "best schools in Mo Co" is a societal issue, and parents in the know can twist the data to work in their favor to justify their reasons for choosing a "better school" in a nice area.

no knee-jerk reaction from me
just the slap-in-the-face truth

People refuse to see the faces behind the numbers, which is truly sad.

It sounds like you're ascribing all sorts of motives and beliefs to me that I don't actually have. I respect your experience and your views, but please don't unload your baggage on me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Wondering ". . .how to re-calculate the scores to eliminate SPED, FARMS, and ESOL students which are "are pulling down the Blair all-school scores" is NOT offensive? How crass to put down children with special needs (SPED), who are living in poverty (FARMS), and for whom English is NOT their first language (ESOL). In most cases, there is overlap among these three categories. So you often have ESOL children living in poverty - double whammy!

There are so many cruel posters on this forum who care nothing about others and will stomp on the disadvantaged to get their way. It obvious in how things are written on some of these posts. And sadly, no one recognizes the undercurrent of prejudice behind these words.

And you, PP, write about how informed the "more affluent and well-educated parents" are - "who are willing [cringe] to send their kids to schools like Einstein or Kennedy." Already you've proudly acknowledged this division between the haves and have nots. Instead of having pity on some of the disadvantaged students, you (and others) are proclaiming that they are detrimental to a school's success. When I see struggling ESOL kids whose parents work 2 jobs so that they can have a chance at success, I am completely proud of what our system has to offer EVERYONE. And I can't tell you how much regular ed children learn from these students. Compassion comes to mind immediately, something you obviously lack.

If you feel so superior, please consider private school.

I'm not the person you're responding to, but I'm confused myself.
(1) Why is quoting statistics, which are put out by MCPS, equivalent to "stomping" on the poor?
(2) Why is stating a fact -- that ESOL kids or FARMS kids do less well on standardized tests -- a betrayal of anybody? MoCo put out the data, and they did so exactly because it's a problem we need to RECOGNIZE AND WORK ON. (And BTW, our affluent kid goes to Blair. Believe it or not! You sure aren't describing my family.)
(2) Why do you insinuate that more affluent parents "cringe" when they send their kids to Einstein or Kennedy? The word "cringe" is yours, not hers. It looks for all the world like you're stereotyping affluent parents, as if it's impossible for any of them to have good motives at all!
(2) Why is there an "undercurrent of racism" to this post, which doesn't mention race?

You've jumped to all kinds of conclusions from statistics that MCPS put out. I don't think any of your conclusions are warranted at all, frankly.

You seem really mad about something, but it doesn't seem to have much to do with her post. I agree that you should leave your baggage at home and look at the facts rationally.

[Anonymous]

You missed the point. This thread is ALL ABOUT HER. AND SHE WANTS TO BE MAD AT SOMEBODY!!!!

There's nothing rationale you can do to persuade her that you're well-meaning, because she doesn't want to hear it. Then the ATTENTION WOULD MOVE AWAY FROM HER AND HER RIGHTEOUS ANGER!

[Anonymous]

As a Realtor, I get this question all of the time. I would agree with the person who posted that the primary indicator of a child's success is his/her intellectual ability and stable/supporting home life. MoCo spends $2B a year on schools, so they have incredible resources - more than I could have imagined where I grew up. Still, of my two kids, one is in the magnate program, and the 2nd is in private school since MCPS could not adequately address his dyslexia.

MCPS has a fantastic web site. Each school as a 'Schools at a Glance' page that gives test scores, demographics, etc. On my web site I mapped all of these reports and created boundaries in google maps to provide easy access to the information. http://mocorealestate.com/schools/

As a homebuyer, finding the right home at the right price in the desired school district can be a monumental process. I recommend first figuring out how much you can (or want) to spend on a home, and then look at best combination of areas/schools that meets your needs. It's tough. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Go tour the schools if you can...all facilities are not equal. MC also has a nice website that shows you which schools are on the boards for upgrading/renovation and timeline and how probable. I wish we had toured our local Bethesda school before buying...its in shambles!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You missed the point. This thread is ALL ABOUT HER. AND SHE WANTS TO BE MAD AT SOMEBODY!!!!

There's nothing rationale you can do to persuade her that you're well-meaning, because she doesn't want to hear it. Then the ATTENTION WOULD MOVE AWAY FROM HER AND HER RIGHTEOUS ANGER!

No, dummy - It's about students and equity, not "righteous anger."

[Anonymous]

It's pretty hard to grasp that from her angry posts. If you can show us where she's right....

[Anonymous]

Can the Real Estate Agents (Jeanette, Tracy, et al) on here stop plugging their websites and services. We can get the stats directly from MCPS, greatschools, and schooldigger!

[Anonymous]

Can't get through all the posts, but I do think you can find a house in the Kensington area that feeds into WJ for around $500. It will probably be a 3 bed/2 bath and will be on the smaller side but you can do it. Look at the school district lines carefully.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But can you buy a single family home in Kensington or Rockville for 500k?

Definitely in Rockville. We live in 20853 - Rockville High.

Plenty of houses under $500K and a great neighborhood!

[Anonymous]

I agree with PP. 20853 is a great location with good schools and nice homes with yards.

[Anonymous]

Olney/Brookville... it's way to go!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

Ditto the PP RE: Olney/Brookeville. Check out Belmont and Greenwood Elementary Schools in particular. Plenty of homes just under $500k in the area (with huge yards, neighborhood pools, walking trails, and the wonderful OBGC).