Where to move in montgomery county for good schools???

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Here's one thread on "Low expectations in red zone?": http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GTAletters/message/18971

Here's another on "Differences between MCPS programs":
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GTAletters/message/17435

And one on "middle school summer reading":
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GTAletters/message/17428


Thank you for posting these. I went through them with much interest. I'm very open to the idea that there is a divide between east and west MoCo in general (although not if http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/quote/30/473165.pageyour kid is in a magnet, which mine is). I.e., I suspect your 50th percentile kid (grades or tests or whatever) at Whitman has a different experience from the same kid at a downcounty high school.

However, I'm not sure these links made the point. The first is about taking the PSAT vs. the HSAT (or something like that) in 9th grade at Blair, which doesn't seem like a huge deal frankly. The 2nd is about whether kids in different schools get the same number of field trips, again not a huge deal. The third started off promisingly, by talking about disparity in reading lists, however it gave very few specific examples of books in one school and not another (except for the school where they were reading alternative chapters of Grapes of Wrath), and then after a few paragraphs it degenerated quickly into the field trip discussion. There was one post that actually made some comparisons between different schools (this one: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GTAletters/message/17399) but I thought they all looked fairly good. The key thing about this post, though is that all 3 of the summer reading lists were from pre-IB programs (Springbok, Einstein and Richard Montgomery).

I can add my family's own experience to this by saying that Blair's summer reading list is really unchallenging. But DC is entering one of the magnets, which has a reputation for providing extra challenges. It would be wrong to compare the Blair regular summer reading list with the lists for pre-IB at Springbok, Einstein and Richard Montgomery.

Which goes back to the point that a kid in Einstein's IB program (or mine in a Blair magnet) is having a very different experience from the rest of the kids.

So I guess what I'm asking is, did you actually mean to post some other links? I'd be open to seeing you prove your point, but I don't think you've done it yet.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Ugh. 19:25 was so irritating I had to respond. I went to Princeton after a very mediocre public high school (not in the DC area) where less than 50% of my graduating class went on to college. I landed at Princeton and was fine. No adjustment period. I had been a highly self-motivated learner in high school and I continued to be in college, graduating near the top of the class. The only place where my less-fancy academic preparation held me back was in foreign languages -- my classmates who had spent summers abroad in foreign-language-speaking countries spoke, not surprisingly, much better than I did. But I ended up majoring in Romance languages and spent time abroad during college, so obviously it was a surmountable hurdle.

One of the major things I take from this is: there is some truth to the maxim that the hardest thing about Princeton (or Harvard, or Yale) is getting in.


This was my experience as well. I went to a mediocre high school in a working-class town and went to Harvard. No adjustment period, really, and I graduated cum laude.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

It doesn't have to be - and can't be - "perfect," but if you hope or expect that your child is going to attend and thrive at a top college or university, he or she will be better prepared, both academically and socially, at a school like Whitman or Wooton than at an Einstein or Kennedy. Getting into a college is only part of the equation.


It is not important to me that my child attends a "top" college or university (if by that you mean Ivy or equivalent). I fully expect my children to attend college, and if they are accepted to a "top" one we can swing, financially, that would be great. If not, that's ok too.

I am a Harvard graduate, fwiw. I think brand-name schools are in general overrated.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I am the PP to whom you respond, and I was talking about evaluating elementary schools. You are right that there is more stratification by skill/class level in high school, but even at that level I would look hard at stats like type of AP classes available, number of kids taking AP, number of kids taking multiple AP and pass rates. Also looking at suspension/disciplinary/attendance rates at the high school level. Personally, I want my kid at a school where as many people as possible are college bound and taking challenging course work, of course, balancing that against judging whether my kid would personally risk being burned out in that kind of environment.


Exactly. It's great that the "Einstein nanny" stood out at that school, but that also means that she probably was leaps and bounds above the vast majority of her classmates. There are exceptional students who will thrive at any school, or no school at all, but the typical high school student benefits from going to school with motivated, high-achieving peers. That's what most MoCo parents believe, for good reason, as the statistics make abundantly clear.


She's not a nanny. She is a high school girl who babysits on the occasional Saturday night.

Her peer group at Einstein (the ones who were in AP classes, sports, music, etc. together) are headed to good schools as well.

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
So I guess what I'm asking is, did you actually mean to post some other links? I'd be open to seeing you prove your point, but I don't think you've done it yet.


No, I didn't mean to post more, because I'm not that invested in this debate. You asked for some links, I found some links. As you say, that search engine is not so helpful, and having followed the debates for some time, I can't point specifically to a single thread that proves that the schools in the different parts of the county. In fact, I'm sure there's no single bit of evidence for that. I originally posted the link to the group because, over time and many posts, I've seen the pattern described.

Here's some links to a blog, "The More Child," which also touches on the "red zone": http://themorechild.com/2008/11/16/testimony-writing-in-the-mcps-red-zone-gt-english-think-again/ and http://themorechild.com/tag/red-zone/
The author has highly gifted/profoundly gifted kids and describes challenges of working with MCPS schools in the red zone (they've done some houseschooling for both at various times). Haven't re-read through these particular posts, so I'm not claiming to be making a particular point with them, but they may shed some light on the part of the MoCo school system that she deals with. At the very least, the writing is much more engaging than GTA Letters so it's well worth a read!
Anonymous
Should read: "I can't point specifically to a single thread that proves that the schools in the different parts of the county are better or worse. In fact, I'm sure there's no single bit of evidence for that."
Anonymous
Well thank you for posting the links that you found, in an effort to back up your statements. Lots of people make strong statements on DCUM and then don't make any effort to defend them.

As I say, I have an intuitive sense that you're on the right track, at least when we're comparing apples to apples like the Whitman AP English kid to the Springbrook AP English kid. Or the 50 pctl Whitman kid to the same kid at Springbrook. But I've never seen any comparison of, say, the Honors English reading lists to prove it. (IMO, looking at the reading lists for comparable classes might be a good comparison, as opposed to # of AP kids which depends on the school catchment area, or SATs which measure the entire school not the AP class, or curriculum which is the same across the county).

On a different point, I am familiar with The More Child. I go there to brush up on what's going on in MoCo. And yes, she does write better than the yahoo groups gang. I do find the blog irritating in other respects, though, because you can see the kids transparently manipulating their mom right there on the blog. ("Mom, nobody in my HS magnet program cares about English the way I do!" Really?) Worse, any time the oldest starts to wonder if it was really OK to be rude to her MS magnet teachers and classmates, she can go right to mom's blog and read about how it's fine because she was just so much smarter than the rest of them. OK, off my soapbox now. I'll continue to go there to find out what's up in MoCo.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The first is about taking the PSAT vs. the HSAT (or something like that) in 9th grade at Blair, which doesn't seem like a huge deal frankly.


I am not the pp to whom you respond, but I wanted to add that PSAT v. HSAT is a big deal. The "HSAT" as you call it means that the 9th graders at Blair are wasting valuable class time practicing a Maryland state exam in order to improve their scores on that exam, which has no bearing on college. In a green zone school, it's more of a given that the kids are going to do well on those exams w/o the in class practice, so they take the PSAT instead -- a test that is practice for the SAT, which leads to college admissions and possible honors and scholarships.

So, in the red zone, they're practicing taking tests to graduate from high school and give MD state it's NCLB test measurements.

In the green zone, well, those kids get to do stuff that actually has a chance of improving their odds of getting into a better quality college.

Where would you want your kids to be?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
I am not the pp to whom you respond, but I wanted to add that PSAT v. HSAT is a big deal. The "HSAT" as you call it means that the 9th graders at Blair are wasting valuable class time practicing a Maryland state exam in order to improve their scores on that exam, which has no bearing on college. In a green zone school, it's more of a given that the kids are going to do well on those exams w/o the in class practice, so they take the PSAT instead -- a test that is practice for the SAT, which leads to college admissions and possible honors and scholarships.

So, in the red zone, they're practicing taking tests to graduate from high school and give MD state it's NCLB test measurements.

In the green zone, well, those kids get to do stuff that actually has a chance of improving their odds of getting into a better quality college.

Where would you want your kids to be?


It's pretty obvious that, given a choice, you'd want to be in the green zone, unless you are the parent or neighbor of the exceptional red zone student who beats the odds, gains admission to a prestigious university, and validates the risk that the student's parents took in sending her or him to a mediocre high school where the main goal is demonstrating that low-performing students have shown marginal gains in tests that measure only basic skills.
Anonymous
I have to admit I stopped following this thread closely a few pages back when I got sick of reading the sweeping generalizations about east-of-park schools ("the pits" as they were described) that are not accompanied by any actual factual proof.

Nevertheless, when I saw recent discussion about the "red zone" and the "green zone," I got curious and did a little digging. My general understanding is that the "red zone" is a group of school districts in low income areas, so MCPS has allocated substantial resources to improving those schools -- more resources than are being allocated to "green zone" schools, I assume, since my understanding is that school districts generally are required to be scrupulously even-handed in how they allocate resources. Here is in interesting article: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124475338699707579.html. I also found this document (http://www.hbs.edu/pelp/docs/Weast070620Harvard.pdf), which tries to compare "red zone" and "green zone" schools, and seems to suggest that "red zone" schools have seen major improvement in the past few years since extra resources have been allocated. (Another version is here: http://www.ccsso.org/content/pdfs/DrWeast_ELO.pdf.)

Anyway, I don't think it's quite accurate to lump all "red zone" schools together and then try to compare them to just the B/CC schools, or even just to all the "green zone" schools. There seems to be a lot of variation among the schools. I found particularly interesting the last few pages of Weast's PDF slides that show AP participation on maps of the schools. By those measures at least, the Silver Spring area schools seem to be doing as well as or perhaps better than some of the B/CC schools, and several other "red zone" school districts are doing better than some "green zone" districts. I'm sure most of the west-of-park schools are all quite good, and many of them probably offer more advantages than many of the east-of-park schools, but I think it's ridiculous to write off all the east-of-park schools so broadly.

I doubt any of us will convince one another of anything, but perhaps we can share some information rather than just making generalized claims and relaying anecdotes.
Anonymous
I thought this passage from the WSJ article was sort of ironic, in light of the discussion on this thread:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124475338699707579.html wrote:Other parents, meanwhile, have expressed concern that the data-driven system unfairly diverts resources from more middle-class "green" schools into the "red zone." Parents Coalition member Heidi Dubin says her children's elementary classes in a green-zone school were too large and focused on meeting proficiency standards. She says her older daughter was advanced and could read Shakespeare in third grade, and was "learning nothing" in Montgomery schools. "You close the gap if the bottom comes up" -- but also if "the top comes down," says Ms. Dubin, an international tax-planning specialist.
Anonymous
This link might allow you to compare how students at different schools are performing on a common test: http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/info/pdf/TerraNova_08-15-08.pdf
Anonymous
"If we have a second, the likelihood of sending either child to a private school seems pretty low. We currently live in silver spring (we both work in DC, so the ability to commute with ease into DC is a consideration), but our elementary school is not considered very good. If we were to move, what would you recommend? I doubt we could afford Bethesda - a common recommendation - as I doubt we could afford much more than $500k for a house.

Any suggestions? Looking just at the montgomery county school district website is too overwhelming. Everywhere I look I see the whole Bethesda/Chevy Chase recommendation, but there have to be other high quality options out there, right? I would be grateful for any advice. thanks! "

I have not read through all the replies but some areas to consider might be Kensington or Rockville. I know Rockville gets knocked on this board but its a good area and Richard Montgomery is very highly ranked. We live in North Potomac which may be too far out for you and is much more suburban but the Wooten district is very good. The commute from Kensington into DC is better than Rockville.

Anonymous
But can you buy a single family home in Kensington or Rockville for 500k?
Anonymous
There are plenty of SFHs in Kensington for less than $500K, but they are all in areas that feed into the Einstein cluster. Rockville has plenty, too - mostly east of Rockville Pike, not as sure about boundaries there.
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