Concerned about lower spending on Regular Kids in FCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: My issue with ESOL is around who gets the attention. Yes, smaller classes.. however, the kids who come from homes where Spanish is the main language get almost all of the attention because no one at home can/will help with their homework. My children didn't get nearly the attention that the other kids received at these ESOL heavy schools. So we moved to a place with no ESOL and things are much better.

Gosh, are you really resentful of kids whose parents are probably working for minimum wage because they get more attention from the teachers? Kids who had no say in what kind of homes they were born into? Kids whose parents are likely doing the best they can under very difficult circumstances?

How about being grateful for the circumstances that have allowed you to be in the position you're in, where you have the time, energy, and educational background to help your children with their homework?

Not the pp, but I don't think it's about being resentful. It's about wanting the best for your kids. My DC was in a high ESOL class and was getting homework for counting by ones in 2nd grade. My DC was fine, but the bright kid who could do more than that whose parents weren't able to supplement got the short end of the stick.

Yes that's complete bs. They should not allow average children to waste their time with these people. If you can't count to 100 By then you should be taken out of the general population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I found the Fairfax County Appraisal site that shows property assessments (values) dropping in McLean -0.475 and Great Falls -2.83%, up 0.29% in Vienna (I think this is different from the Town of Vienna) and up 0.68% for the whole County. Just to help see it all in perspective. http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/news2/2017-real-estate-assessments/ If you go down the page there's a map that shows the different districts and the change in assessments. Not good news for my retirement plans.

The SAT numbers are interesting. My son is taking ACTs this morning and I hear that more and more kids are taking ACTs rather than SATs. I don't know what effect this has. Also many kdis who don't plan to go to college or want to go to the local Virginia schools don't have to take SATs or ACTs. How much difference could that be having? It was expensive and a lot of work to prepare for these tests (my daughter took the SATs two years ago).

I'm not aware of any VA colleges that don't require either the SAT or ACT.

I know GMU is score optional for majors other than computer science and engineering. There may be other Virginia colleges that are score optional.

Yes, but the applicant also has to have a 3.5+ GPA to qualify for score optional admissions, as well as a whole host of other requirements. Probably easier just to take the tests.
http://www.collegiatetimes.com/news/score-optional-admissions-policy-implemented-at-mason/article_17c9bc92-c3db-5fce-877c-584d47bc5704.html

As cited in the prior post -- there are VA colleges that don't require either the SAT or ACT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's been a problem for a long time. FCPS not only has to meet the needs of all the spec ed and esol kids, but it also decides to spend money on all the *gifted* kids and the language immersion kids. That leaves nothing for the regular kid.

+100
Really tired of paying all these taxes, only to have my "regular" kid pretty much ignored.

You people are morons. A very tiny percentage of 'your taxes' goes to educate your kid or any other kid for that matter.
Every single one of us is paying taxes, from teens to the eldetly - most of whom don't have kids in the public school system.
It's not 'your money' to be spent on 'your kid'.
Hell, we've been paying for 30 years to get 'your kids' a free public education even while our kids are at a 35k private school and we are not whining like you.

Not the taxes poster, but if your kids don't even attend FCPS, how is your opinion on whether others have a concern about the level of spending on nonspecial ED/ESOL kids even relevant. Of course you're not concerned because your kids aren't in the schools, and so you have no clue about the level of education those kids who are in the schools are getting. Your taxes don't cover the President's or Congress' salaries either, but I'm pretty sure if they were acting in a manner contrary to your or your kid's interest you'd have an opinion. The number of ESOL kids in our schools affects spending on nonESOL kids. As inflation adjusted spending per "regular" child decreases, at some point there will be a decrease in the quality of education.

Because we are all paying to educate ALL of the kids, including the special ones, not to just throw more money at your kids. Your children are in one of the most generously funded schools in the nation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's been a problem for a long time. FCPS not only has to meet the needs of all the spec ed and esol kids, but it also decides to spend money on all the *gifted* kids and the language immersion kids. That leaves nothing for the regular kid.

+100
Really tired of paying all these taxes, only to have my "regular" kid pretty much ignored.

You people are morons. A very tiny percentage of 'your taxes' goes to educate your kid or any other kid for that matter.
Every single one of us is paying taxes, from teens to the eldetly - most of whom don't have kids in the public school system.
It's not 'your money' to be spent on 'your kid'.
Hell, we've been paying for 30 years to get 'your kids' a free public education even while our kids are at a 35k private school and we are not whining like you.

Not the taxes poster, but if your kids don't even attend FCPS, how is your opinion on whether others have a concern about the level of spending on nonspecial ED/ESOL kids even relevant. Of course you're not concerned because your kids aren't in the schools, and so you have no clue about the level of education those kids who are in the schools are getting. Your taxes don't cover the President's or Congress' salaries either, but I'm pretty sure if they were acting in a manner contrary to your or your kid's interest you'd have an opinion. The number of ESOL kids in our schools affects spending on nonESOL kids. As inflation adjusted spending per "regular" child decreases, at some point there will be a decrease in the quality of education.

Because we are all paying to educate ALL of the kids, including the special ones, not to just throw more money at your kids. Your children are in one of the most generously funded schools in the nation.

This isn't about me wanting more money thrown at my kids. My kids all got into AAP and are getting a fine education. However, my kids were in Gen Ed through 2nd grade, so I know what the PPs are talking about. FCPS is overall generously funded, but in many cases is falling short when it comes to regular Gen Ed kids. You haven't experienced the disparity in allocation of resources and the impact on the quality of education regular kids get in some FCPS, so you really have no basis for calling concerned parents morons. Send your kids to one of those schools for a year and then come back and comment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's been a problem for a long time. FCPS not only has to meet the needs of all the spec ed and esol kids, but it also decides to spend money on all the *gifted* kids and the language immersion kids. That leaves nothing for the regular kid.

+100
Really tired of paying all these taxes, only to have my "regular" kid pretty much ignored.

You people are morons. A very tiny percentage of 'your taxes' goes to educate your kid or any other kid for that matter.
Every single one of us is paying taxes, from teens to the eldetly - most of whom don't have kids in the public school system.
It's not 'your money' to be spent on 'your kid'.
Hell, we've been paying for 30 years to get 'your kids' a free public education even while our kids are at a 35k private school and we are not whining like you.

Not the taxes poster, but if your kids don't even attend FCPS, how is your opinion on whether others have a concern about the level of spending on nonspecial ED/ESOL kids even relevant. Of course you're not concerned because your kids aren't in the schools, and so you have no clue about the level of education those kids who are in the schools are getting. Your taxes don't cover the President's or Congress' salaries either, but I'm pretty sure if they were acting in a manner contrary to your or your kid's interest you'd have an opinion. The number of ESOL kids in our schools affects spending on nonESOL kids. As inflation adjusted spending per "regular" child decreases, at some point there will be a decrease in the quality of education.

Because we are all paying to educate ALL of the kids, including the special ones, not to just throw more money at your kids. Your children are in one of the most generously funded schools in the nation.

Our DD was going to be bad parochial school. Didn't end up mattering because she is not a top student in high school. Most kids - unless they are special in some way - don't need a ton of instruction at younger ages. A lot of it is developmental.

What did matter was no screen time until high school basically and much time spent doing hands on things and also reading. Your children will learn most of what they need to learn through
play, experience and reading at these ages. Encourage outside reading - get them anything that they find fun and interesting and encourage reading (Captain Underpants, something about cars -
anything). Don't have them staring at screens all the time doing dumb social media stuff and have them playing with friends and out in the neighborhood interacting with other children and problem solving.
Video games aren't the worst way to spend some time but in moderation.

Sign them up for one or two educational summer camps a year. Something involving science or building something or zoo camp or programming or something. The rest of the time they can just have fun but sign them up for something educational for some of the weeks.

What you won't ever get in public school is apparently a great writing curriculum. I don't know why, but if you have a battle to pick you might pick that at least once it's middle school time.
Also by middle school a strong math program is needed. And by strong math program I don't mean what the public schools do which is accelerate kids into higher level math before they are ready just to show on paper that they are learning at a high level (they are not and often they are then unprepared for high school math and fail). By strong math program I mean a good foundation in the basics that will eventually be a good foundation to learning higher level math like geometry and calculus.

The thing is is that I'm not sure you're ever going to get a good educational foundation for your kids in the public schools because they don't always seem to know what they are doing. The bright ones do fine because they are bright and they learn on their own (or in the case of some public schools having gifted programs for them). The schools spend time with the SPED kids and the ESOL kids early on because they understand that they don't understand the basics and they spend time teaching them those basics. After that those kids are left to flounder as well.

They don't ever seem to understand how to educate the middle of the pack but that's not because there are SPED kids or ESOL kids or Gifted kids or that they don't have enough money - it's because they don't care.

I have a SPED kid and they don't care or understand how to teach anything but some basics and we have had to deal with that. I can't see them fixing that ever - the public schools just aren't that good even at their best.

I would pick one aspect of school that you want to see get better - such as more rigorous match teaching or teaching writing skills - and try to get that changed.

Or, take the kids to Kumon...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's been a problem for a long time. FCPS not only has to meet the needs of all the spec ed and esol kids, but it also decides to spend money on all the *gifted* kids and the language immersion kids. That leaves nothing for the regular kid.

+100
Really tired of paying all these taxes, only to have my "regular" kid pretty much ignored.

You people are morons. A very tiny percentage of 'your taxes' goes to educate your kid or any other kid for that matter.
Every single one of us is paying taxes, from teens to the eldetly - most of whom don't have kids in the public school system.
It's not 'your money' to be spent on 'your kid'.
Hell, we've been paying for 30 years to get 'your kids' a free public education even while our kids are at a 35k private school and we are not whining like you.

Not the taxes poster, but if your kids don't even attend FCPS, how is your opinion on whether others have a concern about the level of spending on nonspecial ED/ESOL kids even relevant. Of course you're not concerned because your kids aren't in the schools, and so you have no clue about the level of education those kids who are in the schools are getting. Your taxes don't cover the President's or Congress' salaries either, but I'm pretty sure if they were acting in a manner contrary to your or your kid's interest you'd have an opinion. The number of ESOL kids in our schools affects spending on nonESOL kids. As inflation adjusted spending per "regular" child decreases, at some point there will be a decrease in the quality of education.

Because we are all paying to educate ALL of the kids, including the special ones, not to just throw more money at your kids. Your children are in one of the most generously funded schools in the nation.

Our DD was going to be bad parochial school. Didn't end up mattering because she is NOW a top student in high school. Most kids - unless they are special in some way - don't need a ton of instruction at younger ages. A lot of it is developmental.

What did matter was no screen time until high school basically and much time spent doing hands on things and also reading. Your children will learn most of what they need to learn through
play, experience and reading at these ages. Encourage outside reading - get them anything that they find fun and interesting and encourage reading (Captain Underpants, something about cars -
anything). Don't have them staring at screens all the time doing dumb social media stuff and have them playing with friends and out in the neighborhood interacting with other children and problem solving.
Video games aren't the worst way to spend some time but in moderation.

Sign them up for one or two educational summer camps a year. Something involving science or building something or zoo camp or programming or something. The rest of the time they can just have fun but sign them up for something educational for some of the weeks.

What you won't ever get in public school is apparently a great writing curriculum. I don't know why, but if you have a battle to pick you might pick that at least once it's middle school time.
Also by middle school a strong math program is needed. And by strong math program I don't mean what the public schools do which is accelerate kids into higher level math before they are ready just to show on paper that they are learning at a high level (they are not and often they are then unprepared for high school math and fail). By strong math program I mean a good foundation in the basics that will eventually be a good foundation to learning higher level math like geometry and calculus.

The thing is is that I'm not sure you're ever going to get a good educational foundation for your kids in the public schools because they don't always seem to know what they are doing. The bright ones do fine because they are bright and they learn on their own (or in the case of some public schools having gifted programs for them). The schools spend time with the SPED kids and the ESOL kids early on because they understand that they don't understand the basics and they spend time teaching them those basics. After that those kids are left to flounder as well.

They don't ever seem to understand how to educate the middle of the pack but that's not because there are SPED kids or ESOL kids or Gifted kids or that they don't have enough money - it's because they don't care.

I have a SPED kid and they don't care or understand how to teach anything but some basics and we have had to deal with that. I can't see them fixing that ever - the public schools just aren't that good even at their best.

I would pick one aspect of school that you want to see get better - such as more rigorous match teaching or teaching writing skills - and try to get that changed.

Or, take the kids to Kumon...

OUr DD is NOW a top student in high school despite her crappy early parochial school years of learning nothing. There were large classes, bad teachers (they hired friends and kept the bad teachers - offering no criticism of their teaching so they could get better and no training other than some pats on the back and social events) and nothing substantial was taught for years. But DD progressed anyway because she read things outside of class, we took her to things like museums and cooked and gardened and got her playdates and did those fun science kits in a box and for her that was enough. She is a crazy strong student.
She was sent to much better schools for middle school and high school. So, if you see that the schools are not going to improve and you can't change them you might consider fleeing by middle school.

[Anonymous]

^ thanks for writing. A lot of good insight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: My issue with ESOL is around who gets the attention. Yes, smaller classes.. however, the kids who come from homes where Spanish is the main language get almost all of the attention because no one at home can/will help with their homework. My children didn't get nearly the attention that the other kids received at these ESOL heavy schools. So we moved to a place with no ESOL and things are much better.

Gosh, are you really resentful of kids whose parents are probably working for minimum wage because they get more attention from the teachers? Kids who had no say in what kind of homes they were born into? Kids whose parents are likely doing the best they can under very difficult circumstances?

How about being grateful for the circumstances that have allowed you to be in the position you're in, where you have the time, energy, and educational background to help your children with their homework?

You mean the fact that I haven't chosen to break immigration laws? Yeah, what was I thinking??

And before you go off about people wanting a better life for themselves, would you let strangers just walk into your home and take from your fridge and pantry, just because they wanted a chance at good food that you took the trouble to pick out and pay for?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's been a problem for a long time. FCPS not only has to meet the needs of all the spec ed and esol kids, but it also decides to spend money on all the *gifted* kids and the language immersion kids. That leaves nothing for the regular kid.

+100
Really tired of paying all these taxes, only to have my "regular" kid pretty much ignored.

You don't have to live here.

[Anonymous]

this is the concern; "you don't have to live here" - and when the parents of 'regular kids' don't want to live here, who pays? The middle class white families are moving - to Loudoun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: My issue with ESOL is around who gets the attention. Yes, smaller classes.. however, the kids who come from homes where Spanish is the main language get almost all of the attention because no one at home can/will help with their homework. My children didn't get nearly the attention that the other kids received at these ESOL heavy schools. So we moved to a place with no ESOL and things are much better.

Gosh, are you really resentful of kids whose parents are probably working for minimum wage because they get more attention from the teachers? Kids who had no say in what kind of homes they were born into? Kids whose parents are likely doing the best they can under very difficult circumstances?

How about being grateful for the circumstances that have allowed you to be in the position you're in, where you have the time, energy, and educational background to help your children with their homework?

You mean the fact that I haven't chosen to break immigration laws? Yeah, what was I thinking??

And before you go off about people wanting a better life for themselves, would you let strangers just walk into your home and take from your fridge and pantry, just because they wanted a chance at good food that you took the trouble to pick out and pay for?

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's been a problem for a long time. FCPS not only has to meet the needs of all the spec ed and esol kids, but it also decides to spend money on all the *gifted* kids and the language immersion kids. That leaves nothing for the regular kid.

+100
Really tired of paying all these taxes, only to have my "regular" kid pretty much ignored.

You people are morons. A very tiny percentage of 'your taxes' goes to educate your kid or any other kid for that matter.
Every single one of us is paying taxes, from teens to the eldetly - most of whom don't have kids in the public school system.
It's not 'your money' to be spent on 'your kid'.
Hell, we've been paying for 30 years to get 'your kids' a free public education even while our kids are at a 35k private school and we are not whining like you.

Not the taxes poster, but if your kids don't even attend FCPS, how is your opinion on whether others have a concern about the level of spending on nonspecial ED/ESOL kids even relevant. Of course you're not concerned because your kids aren't in the schools, and so you have no clue about the level of education those kids who are in the schools are getting. Your taxes don't cover the President's or Congress' salaries either, but I'm pretty sure if they were acting in a manner contrary to your or your kid's interest you'd have an opinion. The number of ESOL kids in our schools affects spending on nonESOL kids. As inflation adjusted spending per "regular" child decreases, at some point there will be a decrease in the quality of education.

+1000
PP is actually the moron here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, sorry, should say "AAP doesn't cost much extra money."

No, it just siphons off the best teachers and students into programs that leave non AAP students in education "ghettos" with burnt out teachers. How did we ever survive to become professionals in schools where the dumb, average and smart kids were all in the same classrooms?

Principals are responsible for the overall performance of their schools. If anything, they have an incentive to assign the best teachers to the Gen En classes, since the AAP students don't need as much assistance and tend to have parents who supplement what they learn in the classroom. I don't think you're doing anything here other than reviving the periodic rant against AAP, which in general attracts smarter kids to FCPS than to any other school system in the region.

Regarding the bolded, this is just utter B.S. My kids are in Gen Ed, and I and all of their friends' parents are extremely involved at school, as well as supplementing at home, and always have been. What a stupid statement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, sorry, should say "AAP doesn't cost much extra money."

No, it just siphons off the best teachers and students into programs that leave non AAP students in education "ghettos" with burnt out teachers. How did we ever survive to become professionals in schools where the dumb, average and smart kids were all in the same classrooms?

I'm 40 and my elementary and middle schools were all tracked. The same "smart" kids were in the "smart' class every year, the "dumb" kids were always together in the "dumb" class, etc. This system wasn't great either. My preference would be no aap centers and the aap curriculum taught at every school.

Absolutely agree.

[Anonymous]

Not from this area but why do they have these gifted centers? If there are so many kids in them, can't they just have one gifted class per grade at their own school? That's what my ES did.