Concerned about lower spending on Regular Kids in FCPS?

[Anonymous]

I think the two most recent posters each have important points

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't you mosey on over to the special needs board and tell all those moms and dads that you resent spending on their kids?

The ones with severe cognitive decencies? Yeah, I'd rather my money not be spent on them in the regular public school capacity. It'd be better spent to create a specific school with therapies to assist them.

I'm not talking the ELL/ESL kids or the autistic kids or even the severe behavior issue kids. We have several kids at our ES who are only semi-cognitive with severe CP. They would benefit more from being in a therapy based program vs. just being in gen pop at a public school, which would free up more public school resources. But, those types of private programs cost money, which many families of those kids can't shell out because their kid's medical expenses are already so high, so they are just enrolled in public school.

Federal law requires that the child be placed in the least restrictive environment, so schools cannot just warehouse special ed kids, which is what happened before that law. The idea is to prepare the kids for the real world where they are not separated.

This is an artificial real world. Kids with disabilities or special needs will never end up in the same colleges or works as advanced kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't you mosey on over to the special needs board and tell all those moms and dads that you resent spending on their kids?

The ones with severe cognitive decencies? Yeah, I'd rather my money not be spent on them in the regular public school capacity. It'd be better spent to create a specific school with therapies to assist them.

I'm not talking the ELL/ESL kids or the autistic kids or even the severe behavior issue kids. We have several kids at our ES who are only semi-cognitive with severe CP. They would benefit more from being in a therapy based program vs. just being in gen pop at a public school, which would free up more public school resources. But, those types of private programs cost money, which many families of those kids can't shell out because their kid's medical expenses are already so high, so they are just enrolled in public school.

Federal law requires that the child be placed in the least restrictive environment, so schools cannot just warehouse special ed kids, which is what happened before that law. The idea is to prepare the kids for the real world where they are not separated.

This is an artificial real world. Kids with disabilities or special needs will never end up in the same colleges or works as advanced kids.

My kid with SNs has a 160+ IQ. She will probably never end up in the same college or "works" as your kid, its true, but not for the reason you think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't you mosey on over to the special needs board and tell all those moms and dads that you resent spending on their kids?

The ones with severe cognitive decencies? Yeah, I'd rather my money not be spent on them in the regular public school capacity. It'd be better spent to create a specific school with therapies to assist them.

I'm not talking the ELL/ESL kids or the autistic kids or even the severe behavior issue kids. We have several kids at our ES who are only semi-cognitive with severe CP. They would benefit more from being in a therapy based program vs. just being in gen pop at a public school, which would free up more public school resources. But, those types of private programs cost money, which many families of those kids can't shell out because their kid's medical expenses are already so high, so they are just enrolled in public school.

Federal law requires that the child be placed in the least restrictive environment, so schools cannot just warehouse special ed kids, which is what happened before that law. The idea is to prepare the kids for the real world where they are not separated.

This is an artificial real world. Kids with disabilities or special needs will never end up in the same colleges or works as advanced kids.

No, its the real world. We only have one world and we all need to learn how to get along despite our differences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And what about the other kids in the class? So the one child with disabilities learns more if he's in that class, but he is so disruptive and difficult that no one else can learn and the teacher can't teach. I've been in classes where one "disabled" kid terrorized an entire class, including the teacher, physically assaulting people (including the teacher!), and making the entire year horrible for everyone. Why is that kid's right to be in the best environment trump everyone else's right to a safe, effective education? I know that's not all special ed kids and not even the majority, but it only takes one of those kids to ruin a class. The question, do kids without an IEP or identification as AAP have any rights to a decent education at all? It seems fcps thinks not.

This. It doesn't happen every year and in every class. But, it does happen and when it does it can be catastrophic for the rest of the kids in the class.

+1,000,000 to both PPs, and especially to the bolded.

Our kids in "Gen Ed" got a great education in FCPS, took multiple APs with former AAP kids, and were admitted to fine schools.

It sounds like you likely have an agenda that has more to do with real estate than K-12 education.

Hmm. I'm one of the PPs. I live in Great Falls and I assure you - this issue has nothing to do with "real estate." What a strange assumption.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:22:04. Yes. It depends on the school, however studies over many years have shown that overall, AAP classes are LARGER across all of FCPS. May be different at your school, but not on any typical year for FCPS. In addition, often IEP's are not recognized at the AAP level. Various Specialists and Assistants help out General Ed classes but not AAP classes. If FCPS was to do away with AAP it would generally cost them more.

How can that be? That would be illegal under federal law.

I don't know but they do it. Most IEPs are written for children who are behind academically.

Kids can be way behind in one area (for example, reading), yet way ahead in another (like math). Kids with IEPs aren't stupid, they have learning disabilities. There are plenty of 2e kids that are way ahead in one area and way behind in another.

Which begs the question: why are they in full time LLIV AAP if they are *behind* in any area?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And what about the other kids in the class? So the one child with disabilities learns more if he's in that class, but he is so disruptive and difficult that no one else can learn and the teacher can't teach. I've been in classes where one "disabled" kid terrorized an entire class, including the teacher, physically assaulting people (including the teacher!), and making the entire year horrible for everyone. Why is that kid's right to be in the best environment trump everyone else's right to a safe, effective education? I know that's not all special ed kids and not even the majority, but it only takes one of those kids to ruin a class. The question, do kids without an IEP or identification as AAP have any rights to a decent education at all? It seems fcps thinks not.

This. It doesn't happen every year and in every class. But, it does happen and when it does it can be catastrophic for the rest of the kids in the class.

+1,000,000 to both PPs, and especially to the bolded.

Our kids in "Gen Ed" got a great education in FCPS, took multiple APs with former AAP kids, and were admitted to fine schools.

It sounds like you likely have an agenda that has more to do with real estate than K-12 education.

Not the poster you were responding to, but be glad your kids made it through just in time. It's just the last few years of AAP overreach combined with budget cuts and higher esol that are now threatening elementary schools. Our ES doubled in size over seven years and has gone down the tubes. The school also took in a lot more special ed students without increasing staff- especially counselors, psychologists, social workers etc. it sounds like you're the one with the agenda now that your kids were admitted to their "fine" schools and done with FCPS..

Precisely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't you mosey on over to the special needs board and tell all those moms and dads that you resent spending on their kids?

The ones with severe cognitive decencies? Yeah, I'd rather my money not be spent on them in the regular public school capacity. It'd be better spent to create a specific school with therapies to assist them.

I'm not talking the ELL/ESL kids or the autistic kids or even the severe behavior issue kids. We have several kids at our ES who are only semi-cognitive with severe CP. They would benefit more from being in a therapy based program vs. just being in gen pop at a public school, which would free up more public school resources. But, those types of private programs cost money, which many families of those kids can't shell out because their kid's medical expenses are already so high, so they are just enrolled in public school.

Federal law requires that the child be placed in the least restrictive environment, so schools cannot just warehouse special ed kids, which is what happened before that law. The idea is to prepare the kids for the real world where they are not separated.

This is an artificial real world. Kids with disabilities or special needs will never end up in the same colleges or works as advanced kids.

No, its the real world. We only have one world and we all need to learn how to get along despite our differences.

Which is exactly why AAP itself is a false construct. There is no simple dividing line between most in AAP and most in GE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't you mosey on over to the special needs board and tell all those moms and dads that you resent spending on their kids?

The ones with severe cognitive decencies? Yeah, I'd rather my money not be spent on them in the regular public school capacity. It'd be better spent to create a specific school with therapies to assist them.

I'm not talking the ELL/ESL kids or the autistic kids or even the severe behavior issue kids. We have several kids at our ES who are only semi-cognitive with severe CP. They would benefit more from being in a therapy based program vs. just being in gen pop at a public school, which would free up more public school resources. But, those types of private programs cost money, which many families of those kids can't shell out because their kid's medical expenses are already so high, so they are just enrolled in public school.

Federal law requires that the child be placed in the least restrictive environment, so schools cannot just warehouse special ed kids, which is what happened before that law. The idea is to prepare the kids for the real world where they are not separated.

This is an artificial real world. Kids with disabilities or special needs will never end up in the same colleges or works as advanced kids.

Nope. My TJ kid with a 504 will end up at a much better college and with a much better job than yours. Oh well...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And what about the other kids in the class? So the one child with disabilities learns more if he's in that class, but he is so disruptive and difficult that no one else can learn and the teacher can't teach. I've been in classes where one "disabled" kid terrorized an entire class, including the teacher, physically assaulting people (including the teacher!), and making the entire year horrible for everyone. Why is that kid's right to be in the best environment trump everyone else's right to a safe, effective education? I know that's not all special ed kids and not even the majority, but it only takes one of those kids to ruin a class. The question, do kids without an IEP or identification as AAP have any rights to a decent education at all? It seems fcps thinks not.

This. It doesn't happen every year and in every class. But, it does happen and when it does it can be catastrophic for the rest of the kids in the class.

+1,000,000 to both PPs, and especially to the bolded.

Our kids in "Gen Ed" got a great education in FCPS, took multiple APs with former AAP kids, and were admitted to fine schools.

It sounds like you likely have an agenda that has more to do with real estate than K-12 education.

Not the poster you were responding to, but be glad your kids made it through just in time. It's just the last few years of AAP overreach combined with budget cuts and higher esol that are now threatening elementary schools. Our ES doubled in size over seven years and has gone down the tubes. The school also took in a lot more special ed students without increasing staff- especially counselors, psychologists, social workers etc. it sounds like you're the one with the agenda now that your kids were admitted to their "fine" schools and done with FCPS..

Precisely.

PP - sounds like our elementary where poverty more than doubled to over 50% in the same time frame. This is what partly prompted us to seriously consider AAP. You should get the same education wherever you are in the county, but you don't. We have friends in other parts of the county and it's like they're in another world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And what about the other kids in the class? So the one child with disabilities learns more if he's in that class, but he is so disruptive and difficult that no one else can learn and the teacher can't teach. I've been in classes where one "disabled" kid terrorized an entire class, including the teacher, physically assaulting people (including the teacher!), and making the entire year horrible for everyone. Why is that kid's right to be in the best environment trump everyone else's right to a safe, effective education? I know that's not all special ed kids and not even the majority, but it only takes one of those kids to ruin a class. The question, do kids without an IEP or identification as AAP have any rights to a decent education at all? It seems fcps thinks not.

This. It doesn't happen every year and in every class. But, it does happen and when it does it can be catastrophic for the rest of the kids in the class.

+1,000,000 to both PPs, and especially to the bolded.

Our kids in "Gen Ed" got a great education in FCPS, took multiple APs with former AAP kids, and were admitted to fine schools.

It sounds like you likely have an agenda that has more to do with real estate than K-12 education.

Not the poster you were responding to, but be glad your kids made it through just in time. It's just the last few years of AAP overreach combined with budget cuts and higher esol that are now threatening elementary schools. Our ES doubled in size over seven years and has gone down the tubes. The school also took in a lot more special ed students without increasing staff- especially counselors, psychologists, social workers etc. it sounds like you're the one with the agenda now that your kids were admitted to their "fine" schools and done with FCPS..

I don't think my kids made in through "just in time." Some posters don't like hearing, though, that parents whose kids are older have more perspective on the relative significance (or insignificance) of AAP over time. Sorry, but I don't have a lot of patience for people who want to hold themselves or their kids out as "normal" or "regularl" and then paint everyone else (whether it's ESOL kids, AAP kids, or kids with IEPs) as the bad guys who are getting more than their fair share.

As for ES that have doubled in the past 7 years, any such schools would be outliers, given that the ES population is only up 11% over that period and FCPS has opened several new elementary schools. Out of over 120 elementary schools in the county, it looks like there are only two that have actually doubled in enrollment over the past 7 years (Lemon Road and McNair), and a third that comes close (Fairfax Villa). Lemon Road was significantly under-enrolled for years, and the school was expanded during the period that its enrollment increased. As for McNair, FCPS has plans to build another ES to relieve overcrowding at McNair and Coates, and part of the associated costs have already been funded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And what about the other kids in the class? So the one child with disabilities learns more if he's in that class, but he is so disruptive and difficult that no one else can learn and the teacher can't teach. I've been in classes where one "disabled" kid terrorized an entire class, including the teacher, physically assaulting people (including the teacher!), and making the entire year horrible for everyone. Why is that kid's right to be in the best environment trump everyone else's right to a safe, effective education? I know that's not all special ed kids and not even the majority, but it only takes one of those kids to ruin a class. The question, do kids without an IEP or identification as AAP have any rights to a decent education at all? It seems fcps thinks not.

This. It doesn't happen every year and in every class. But, it does happen and when it does it can be catastrophic for the rest of the kids in the class.

+1,000,000 to both PPs, and especially to the bolded.

Our kids in "Gen Ed" got a great education in FCPS, took multiple APs with former AAP kids, and were admitted to fine schools.

It sounds like you likely have an agenda that has more to do with real estate than K-12 education.

Not the poster you were responding to, but be glad your kids made it through just in time. It's just the last few years of AAP overreach combined with budget cuts and higher esol that are now threatening elementary schools. Our ES doubled in size over seven years and has gone down the tubes. The school also took in a lot more special ed students without increasing staff- especially counselors, psychologists, social workers etc. it sounds like you're the one with the agenda now that your kids were admitted to their "fine" schools and done with FCPS..

Precisely.

PP - sounds like our elementary where poverty more than doubled to over 50% in the same time frame. This is what partly prompted us to seriously consider AAP. You should get the same education wherever you are in the county, but you don't. We have friends in other parts of the county and it's like they're in another world.

Although there are no estimates for Fairfax County, undocumented immigrants are estimated to be 20 to 29 percent of Virginia’s foreign-born population. Approximately 80 percent of the
nation’s undocumented immigrants come from Mexico and other Latin American countries. Among the nation’s undocumented adult immigrants age 18 and older, an estimated 41 percent are women. There also are a substantial number of children who are undocumented immigrants. Children comprise an estimated 17 percent of the nation’s undocumented immigrant population, and it is estimated that for every undocumented child there are an additional two children born in the U.S. to undocumented parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't you mosey on over to the special needs board and tell all those moms and dads that you resent spending on their kids?

The ones with severe cognitive decencies? Yeah, I'd rather my money not be spent on them in the regular public school capacity. It'd be better spent to create a specific school with therapies to assist them.

I'm not talking the ELL/ESL kids or the autistic kids or even the severe behavior issue kids. We have several kids at our ES who are only semi-cognitive with severe CP. They would benefit more from being in a therapy based program vs. just being in gen pop at a public school, which would free up more public school resources. But, those types of private programs cost money, which many families of those kids can't shell out because their kid's medical expenses are already so high, so they are just enrolled in public school.

Federal law requires that the child be placed in the least restrictive environment, so schools cannot just warehouse special ed kids, which is what happened before that law. The idea is to prepare the kids for the real world where they are not separated.

This is an artificial real world. Kids with disabilities or special needs will never end up in the same colleges or works as advanced kids.

So untrue! Do a little homework. Lots of kids with LDs go to college, even Ivy League schools.

[Anonymous]

I've always been concerned that there has historically been about .7 administrators per teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't you mosey on over to the special needs board and tell all those moms and dads that you resent spending on their kids?

The ones with severe cognitive decencies? Yeah, I'd rather my money not be spent on them in the regular public school capacity. It'd be better spent to create a specific school with therapies to assist them.

I'm not talking the ELL/ESL kids or the autistic kids or even the severe behavior issue kids. We have several kids at our ES who are only semi-cognitive with severe CP. They would benefit more from being in a therapy based program vs. just being in gen pop at a public school, which would free up more public school resources. But, those types of private programs cost money, which many families of those kids can't shell out because their kid's medical expenses are already so high, so they are just enrolled in public school.

Federal law requires that the child be placed in the least restrictive environment, so schools cannot just warehouse special ed kids, which is what happened before that law. The idea is to prepare the kids for the real world where they are not separated.

This is an artificial real world. Kids with disabilities or special needs will never end up in the same colleges or works as advanced kids.

That is incorrect. While they will not go to those schools in the same numbers. There are plenty of students with disabilities that go to excellent colleges and are extremely successful. My DC is a senior and has an IEP since 2nd grade. The school his peers that he has known from special ed since ES are going to will astound you: William & Mary, Davison, RIT, RPI, Harvard, UMD-CP Honors are just just a few that I know at the moment.