Concerned about lower spending on Regular Kids in FCPS?

[Anonymous]

The research is really clear that the kids with the most significant disabilities, including those with multiple disabilities, benefit the most from inclusion.

This may be true. However, when you consider how many kids are pulled out for AAP--and, thus, do not have those with the multiple disabilities in their classes, that leaves the "regular" kids with these kids in their classes--and, if we are going to "mainstream" those with disabilities, then why are the AAP kids not mainstreamed if they have "special needs" because they are so smart.

I am for inclusion of ALL kids--except those who cannot manage in a normal classroom.

I've known two families who fought to have their disabled kids included with "regular" kids--while placing their other kids in GT centers. In other words, they did not want their bright kids mainstreamed, but they wanted their disabled kids mainstreamed.

[Anonymous]

It's all about bringing up the bottom. We were the recipients of boundary change that tanked our school in less than five years. The pressure is on to get kids to pass the SOLs. Any type of reading incentives or homework is pretty much shunned. If it can't be accomplished during the school day, forget it because the kids who have involved parents will get ahead. If everybody can't do it, then nobody can. I asked about giving AAP curriculum like literary circle and word study to all and was told most Gen ed kids in our school were not ready. If your kid misses the cut off they're missing out. Expectations are lower when you have high poverty. School board needs to stop concentrating poverty in areas in the eastern and western parts of the county. The school that we received the poverty from had been Title 1 and now has 15% poverty. Why couldn't neighborhoods been split among a few schools?

I worked in a title 1 school, and I agree with part of what you say - that it's all about bringing the bottom up, and we pretty much ignored the middle. However, things like Word Study should be there, especially for the lowest students. That's just a good practice. I think the literacy circles are kind of out these days in general. I would seriously question the instructional competence of any school or teachers not using Word Study.

I also agree that it's not fair the way low-income kids are concentrated in one school. In my neighborhood, we are that school - 30% ESOL, 30% free and reduced, and all the schools around us are 1%. And if you look at the boundary you can see that the lowest income areas are actually closer to other elementary schools, but the boundaries have been drawn so that they are concentrated only in our school. Something is fishy with that.



30% is easy. We are now at 60% poverty after the boundary change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:22:04. Yes. It depends on the school, however studies over many years have shown that overall, AAP classes are LARGER across all of FCPS. May be different at your school, but not on any typical year for FCPS. In addition, often IEP's are not recognized at the AAP level. Various Specialists and Assistants help out General Ed classes but not AAP classes. If FCPS was to do away with AAP it would generally cost them more.

How can that be? That would be illegal under federal law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't you mosey on over to the special needs board and tell all those moms and dads that you resent spending on their kids?

The ones with severe cognitive decencies? Yeah, I'd rather my money not be spent on them in the regular public school capacity. It'd be better spent to create a specific school with therapies to assist them.

I'm not talking the ELL/ESL kids or the autistic kids or even the severe behavior issue kids. We have several kids at our ES who are only semi-cognitive with severe CP. They would benefit more from being in a therapy based program vs. just being in gen pop at a public school, which would free up more public school resources. But, those types of private programs cost money, which many families of those kids can't shell out because their kid's medical expenses are already so high, so they are just enrolled in public school.

Federal law requires that the child be placed in the least restrictive environment, so schools cannot just warehouse special ed kids, which is what happened before that law. The idea is to prepare the kids for the real world where they are not separated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't you mosey on over to the special needs board and tell all those moms and dads that you resent spending on their kids?

The ones with severe cognitive decencies? Yeah, I'd rather my money not be spent on them in the regular public school capacity. It'd be better spent to create a specific school with therapies to assist them.

I'm not talking the ELL/ESL kids or the autistic kids or even the severe behavior issue kids. We have several kids at our ES who are only semi-cognitive with severe CP. They would benefit more from being in a therapy based program vs. just being in gen pop at a public school, which would free up more public school resources. But, those types of private programs cost money, which many families of those kids can't shell out because their kid's medical expenses are already so high, so they are just enrolled in public school.

Federal law requires that the child be placed in the least restrictive environment, so schools cannot just warehouse special ed kids, which is what happened before that law. The idea is to prepare the kids for the real world where they are not separated.

And what about the other kids in the class? So the one child with disabilities learns more if he's in that class, but he is so disruptive and difficult that no one else can learn and the teacher can't teach. I've been in classes where one "disabled" kid terrorized an entire class, including the teacher, physically assaulting people (including the teacher!), and making the entire year horrible for everyone. Why is that kid's right to be in the best environment trump everyone else's right to a safe, effective education? I know that's not all special ed kids and not even the majority, but it only takes one of those kids to ruin a class. The question, do kids without an IEP or identification as AAP have any rights to a decent education at all? It seems fcps thinks not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:22:04. Yes. It depends on the school, however studies over many years have shown that overall, AAP classes are LARGER across all of FCPS. May be different at your school, but not on any typical year for FCPS. In addition, often IEP's are not recognized at the AAP level. Various Specialists and Assistants help out General Ed classes but not AAP classes. If FCPS was to do away with AAP it would generally cost them more.

How can that be? That would be illegal under federal law.

I don't know but they do it. Most IEPs are written for children who are behind academically.

[Anonymous]

And what about the other kids in the class? So the one child with disabilities learns more if he's in that class, but he is so disruptive and difficult that no one else can learn and the teacher can't teach. I've been in classes where one "disabled" kid terrorized an entire class, including the teacher, physically assaulting people (including the teacher!), and making the entire year horrible for everyone. Why is that kid's right to be in the best environment trump everyone else's right to a safe, effective education? I know that's not all special ed kids and not even the majority, but it only takes one of those kids to ruin a class. The question, do kids without an IEP or identification as AAP have any rights to a decent education at all? It seems fcps thinks not.

This. It doesn't happen every year and in every class. But, it does happen and when it does it can be catastrophic for the rest of the kids in the class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

And what about the other kids in the class? So the one child with disabilities learns more if he's in that class, but he is so disruptive and difficult that no one else can learn and the teacher can't teach. I've been in classes where one "disabled" kid terrorized an entire class, including the teacher, physically assaulting people (including the teacher!), and making the entire year horrible for everyone. Why is that kid's right to be in the best environment trump everyone else's right to a safe, effective education? I know that's not all special ed kids and not even the majority, but it only takes one of those kids to ruin a class. The question, do kids without an IEP or identification as AAP have any rights to a decent education at all? It seems fcps thinks not.

This. It doesn't happen every year and in every class. But, it does happen and when it does it can be catastrophic for the rest of the kids in the class.

+1,000,000 to both PPs, and especially to the bolded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And what about the other kids in the class? So the one child with disabilities learns more if he's in that class, but he is so disruptive and difficult that no one else can learn and the teacher can't teach. I've been in classes where one "disabled" kid terrorized an entire class, including the teacher, physically assaulting people (including the teacher!), and making the entire year horrible for everyone. Why is that kid's right to be in the best environment trump everyone else's right to a safe, effective education? I know that's not all special ed kids and not even the majority, but it only takes one of those kids to ruin a class. The question, do kids without an IEP or identification as AAP have any rights to a decent education at all? It seems fcps thinks not.

This. It doesn't happen every year and in every class. But, it does happen and when it does it can be catastrophic for the rest of the kids in the class.

+1,000,000 to both PPs, and especially to the bolded.

Our kids in "Gen Ed" got a great education in FCPS, took multiple APs with former AAP kids, and were admitted to fine schools.

It sounds like you likely have an agenda that has more to do with real estate than K-12 education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:22:04. Yes. It depends on the school, however studies over many years have shown that overall, AAP classes are LARGER across all of FCPS. May be different at your school, but not on any typical year for FCPS. In addition, often IEP's are not recognized at the AAP level. Various Specialists and Assistants help out General Ed classes but not AAP classes. If FCPS was to do away with AAP it would generally cost them more.

How can that be? That would be illegal under federal law.

I don't know but they do it. Most IEPs are written for children who are behind academically.

My kid in AAP had lots of kids in the class who had IEPs. It is not that unusual.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

And what about the other kids in the class? So the one child with disabilities learns more if he's in that class, but he is so disruptive and difficult that no one else can learn and the teacher can't teach. I've been in classes where one "disabled" kid terrorized an entire class, including the teacher, physically assaulting people (including the teacher!), and making the entire year horrible for everyone. Why is that kid's right to be in the best environment trump everyone else's right to a safe, effective education? I know that's not all special ed kids and not even the majority, but it only takes one of those kids to ruin a class. The question, do kids without an IEP or identification as AAP have any rights to a decent education at all? It seems fcps thinks not.

This. It doesn't happen every year and in every class. But, it does happen and when it does it can be catastrophic for the rest of the kids in the class.

Clearly, something is not working for the child in the class and it's time for an IEP meeting for the IEP team to figure out a solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:22:04. Yes. It depends on the school, however studies over many years have shown that overall, AAP classes are LARGER across all of FCPS. May be different at your school, but not on any typical year for FCPS. In addition, often IEP's are not recognized at the AAP level. Various Specialists and Assistants help out General Ed classes but not AAP classes. If FCPS was to do away with AAP it would generally cost them more.

How can that be? That would be illegal under federal law.

I don't know but they do it. Most IEPs are written for children who are behind academically.

Kids can be way behind in one area (for example, reading), yet way ahead in another (like math). Kids with IEPs aren't stupid, they have learning disabilities. There are plenty of 2e kids that are way ahead in one area and way behind in another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:22:04. Yes. It depends on the school, however studies over many years have shown that overall, AAP classes are LARGER across all of FCPS. May be different at your school, but not on any typical year for FCPS. In addition, often IEP's are not recognized at the AAP level. Various Specialists and Assistants help out General Ed classes but not AAP classes. If FCPS was to do away with AAP it would generally cost them more.

How can that be? That would be illegal under federal law.

PP does not know what they are talking about. My kids are in AAP MS and TJ (!!) w/ 504s. I personally know kids in AAP and a kid at TJ w/ IEPs. In my personal experience, AAP ES, AAP MS and TJ all deal well with 504s. They will not slow down the curriculum for your kid, but they do well with 2e issues-- especially ADHD and anxiety.

[Anonymous]

504s are not IEPs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And what about the other kids in the class? So the one child with disabilities learns more if he's in that class, but he is so disruptive and difficult that no one else can learn and the teacher can't teach. I've been in classes where one "disabled" kid terrorized an entire class, including the teacher, physically assaulting people (including the teacher!), and making the entire year horrible for everyone. Why is that kid's right to be in the best environment trump everyone else's right to a safe, effective education? I know that's not all special ed kids and not even the majority, but it only takes one of those kids to ruin a class. The question, do kids without an IEP or identification as AAP have any rights to a decent education at all? It seems fcps thinks not.

This. It doesn't happen every year and in every class. But, it does happen and when it does it can be catastrophic for the rest of the kids in the class.

+1,000,000 to both PPs, and especially to the bolded.

Our kids in "Gen Ed" got a great education in FCPS, took multiple APs with former AAP kids, and were admitted to fine schools.

It sounds like you likely have an agenda that has more to do with real estate than K-12 education.

Not the poster you were responding to, but be glad your kids made it through just in time. It's just the last few years of AAP overreach combined with budget cuts and higher esol that are now threatening elementary schools. Our ES doubled in size over seven years and has gone down the tubes. The school also took in a lot more special ed students without increasing staff- especially counselors, psychologists, social workers etc. it sounds like you're the one with the agenda now that your kids were admitted to their "fine" schools and done with FCPS..