The real bubble is in the heartland

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Coming from the midwest, I thought this was very true:

Republicans have mastered wielding the struggles of poor white Americans as a cudgel against blacks, against Latinos, against women, against Jews and Muslims and LGBTQ folks. See them? They’re to blame for your struggle. You’re hurting because of them! I am tired of wealthy conservatives who have never set foot among us “white trash”—and sure as hell wouldn’t want their children marrying us—filming campaign commercials of themselves wading through star-spangled cornfields and ranting about the so-called “liberal bubble” and every buzzword that goes with it: Hollywood, communists, “college educated,” etc

Democrats have used the struggles of poor minorities as a cudgel against whites etc. as if they alone are the solution to change their station in life. Yet when in power, little to nothing changes.

Agree. Dems are just mad because their use of identity politics didn't triumph. They thought it would pay off to tell poor white people to check their privilege and to vote for the Dem candidate or else they're racist.

Turns out it didn't.

Stop the alt right talking point. Republicans created identity politics with the Southern Strategy. Both parties do it. BTW, there is nothing wrong with identity politics. Urban people are going to be interested in different issues than rural people.

[Anonymous]

GOP and its "liberal war on white people" is identity politics.

The Alt-Right movement is identity politics.

Stop pointing fingers at the left when your side is doing it.

[Anonymous]

Identity politics works. It gets both bases out to vote. Members of Congress raise money on the fear of the identity politics of the other party. They ride the wave of fear and anger into office and then do nothing. Rinse and repeat.

[Anonymous]

I grew up in the rural furniture and textile South. Except the furniture plants moved overseas and the textile plants went bankrupt. Tobacco is winding down too. And the area, which was no great shakes and pretty poor to begin with, is now deeply depressed. So I get why they voted Trump. (BTW-- this was a part of the South with openly racist, homophobic people who have never met a Muslim, and fly a confederate fly on their pickup, so there is some of that too).

But, putting aside for the moment how we got here-- those jobs aren't coming back. But don't tell that to my High school classmates on my FB feed, who are waiting for Trump to revive the furniture, textile and tobacco industries. And these now 40 year old often dropped out of school the day they turned 16 to work in the furniture factory, like their dad and grandad. So, they have no transferable skills or education. It's a terrible position for anyone to be in. But, telling them manufacturing is coming back is cruel. It's just not. And until someone is brave enough to be up front about that and offer real retraining programs, and tell them that their next job may pay less, they are screwed. It's like my whole hometown is waiting for Trump Godot.

And, BTW, this is in NC. So good luck with trying to bring in new industries to replace those that left while the politicians running the state are more concerned about making sure transgendered people are using the correct bathroom than bringing in new business. The whole state is being boycotted.

I was one of the few people I know in this area who was not shocked Trump won, because I get why people voted for him. But because I do care about where I came from, his win was tough for me. I do believe that under his policies, my Fed job and college elite lifestyle in the DMV area wil be fine, I will pay less taxes and continue to have good federal health insurance. But my hometown will be worse of in 4 years than it is now. And they do need real help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Coming from the midwest, I thought this was very true:

Republicans have mastered wielding the struggles of poor white Americans as a cudgel against blacks, against Latinos, against women, against Jews and Muslims and LGBTQ folks. See them? They’re to blame for your struggle. You’re hurting because of them! I am tired of wealthy conservatives who have never set foot among us “white trash”—and sure as hell wouldn’t want their children marrying us—filming campaign commercials of themselves wading through star-spangled cornfields and ranting about the so-called “liberal bubble” and every buzzword that goes with it: Hollywood, communists, “college educated,” etc

Democrats have used the struggles of poor minorities as a cudgel against whites etc. as if they alone are the solution to change their station in life. Yet when in power, little to nothing changes.

Agree. Dems are just mad because their use of identity politics didn't triumph. They thought it would pay off to tell poor white people to check their privilege and to vote for the Dem candidate or else they're racist.

Turns out it didn't.

And this happened... where?

Have you really not heard anyone suggest that white people are privileged and should acknowledge said privilege?

Do you live in the United States?

You claimed that the Democrats, as a campaign strategy, specifically told poor white people to check their privilege. Where did this happen?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in the rural furniture and textile South. Except the furniture plants moved overseas and the textile plants went bankrupt. Tobacco is winding down too. And the area, which was no great shakes and pretty poor to begin with, is now deeply depressed. So I get why they voted Trump. (BTW-- this was a part of the South with openly racist, homophobic people who have never met a Muslim, and fly a confederate fly on their pickup, so there is some of that too).

But, putting aside for the moment how we got here-- those jobs aren't coming back. But don't tell that to my High school classmates on my FB feed, who are waiting for Trump to revive the furniture, textile and tobacco industries. And these now 40 year old often dropped out of school the day they turned 16 to work in the furniture factory, like their dad and grandad. So, they have no transferable skills or education. It's a terrible position for anyone to be in. But, telling them manufacturing is coming back is cruel. It's just not. And until someone is brave enough to be up front about that and offer real retraining programs, and tell them that their next job may pay less, they are screwed. It's like my whole hometown is waiting for Trump Godot.

And, BTW, this is in NC. So good luck with trying to bring in new industries to replace those that left while the politicians running the state are more concerned about making sure transgendered people are using the correct bathroom than bringing in new business. The whole state is being boycotted.

I was one of the few people I know in this area who was not shocked Trump won, because I get why people voted for him. But because I do care about where I came from, his win was tough for me. I do believe that under his policies, my Fed job and college elite lifestyle in the DMV area wil be fine, I will pay less taxes and continue to have good federal health insurance. But my hometown will be worse of in 4 years than it is now. And they do need real help.

Thanks for your refreshing take on the situation . In the spirit of truthfulness , it's safe to say your 'people ' are simply idiotic , at least the majority in that demography. I am not one to pay much attention to an individual's academic pedigree simply because I believe there comes a time in life when we all have to exercise better judgement , or, at the very least try as hard as we can to think critically and calmly for ourselves . If, in spite of everything you wrote above those people still choose to cling to a world that stopped existing thanks in no small part to the policies they've voted for . I think my sympathy is reserved for a more deserving group , your 'people ' aren't making the cut


You're absolutely right , these folks are about to be worse off than they're now . They have it coming

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in the rural furniture and textile South. Except the furniture plants moved overseas and the textile plants went bankrupt. Tobacco is winding down too. And the area, which was no great shakes and pretty poor to begin with, is now deeply depressed. So I get why they voted Trump. (BTW-- this was a part of the South with openly racist, homophobic people who have never met a Muslim, and fly a confederate fly on their pickup, so there is some of that too).

But, putting aside for the moment how we got here-- those jobs aren't coming back. But don't tell that to my High school classmates on my FB feed, who are waiting for Trump to revive the furniture, textile and tobacco industries. And these now 40 year old often dropped out of school the day they turned 16 to work in the furniture factory, like their dad and grandad. So, they have no transferable skills or education. It's a terrible position for anyone to be in. But, telling them manufacturing is coming back is cruel. It's just not. And until someone is brave enough to be up front about that and offer real retraining programs, and tell them that their next job may pay less, they are screwed. It's like my whole hometown is waiting for Trump Godot.

And, BTW, this is in NC. So good luck with trying to bring in new industries to replace those that left while the politicians running the state are more concerned about making sure transgendered people are using the correct bathroom than bringing in new business. The whole state is being boycotted.

I was one of the few people I know in this area who was not shocked Trump won, because I get why people voted for him. But because I do care about where I came from, his win was tough for me. I do believe that under his policies, my Fed job and college elite lifestyle in the DMV area wil be fine, I will pay less taxes and continue to have good federal health insurance. But my hometown will be worse of in 4 years than it is now. And they do need real help.

Thanks for your refreshing take on the situation . In the spirit of truthfulness , it's safe to say your 'people ' are simply idiotic , at least the majority in that demography. I am not one to pay much attention to an individual's academic pedigree simply because I believe there comes a time in life when we all have to exercise better judgement , or, at the very least try as hard as we can to think critically and calmly for ourselves . If, in spite of everything you wrote above those people still choose to cling to a world that stopped existing thanks in no small part to the policies they've voted for . I think my sympathy is reserved for a more deserving group , your 'people ' aren't making the cut


You're absolutely right , these folks are about to be worse off than they're now . They have it coming

Do they have it coming? Yes and no. I asked my MS DD after the election, when I was explaining it to her, what percentage of people she though had a college degree. And she said everyone did. That is her world. Almost everyone she knows in the community went to college. She could not fathom a place, like my high school, where maybe 1/4 of the kids went to some type of 2 or 4 year college. And many of those did not get a degree. And only 2-3 kids per graduating class made it out. Generational poverty and generations of families where no one has a high school education, and where the expectation is that you will drop out and work as soon as you legally can is not easy to fix. And it's hard for someone with a 10 th grade education to understand the intricacies of NAFTA or health insurance markets. Especially when that 10th grade education was in crappy schools, and they are functionally illiterate. This is not the WAPo, NPR crowd. Think more Friday Night Lights, with less football talent.

So yes, they made bad decisions, and hurt themselves, and the rest of us. But I'm not sure they have the education or savvy to understand that Trump was selling snake oil.

And it's just complicated. This is where I grew up, and where my parents still live. But, DH and I made a very conscious decision not to raise our children there. I care about the people there, and am also deeply disappointed in them. They were at one point "my people," although I never really 100% fit in. But, I could not move back now and just become part of the community again. If I was unusual at 15, at 40, I'm an alien.

It's sad, and depressing, and complicated with no apparent fix. But it is not as simple as idiots who deserve what they get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in the rural furniture and textile South. Except the furniture plants moved overseas and the textile plants went bankrupt. Tobacco is winding down too. And the area, which was no great shakes and pretty poor to begin with, is now deeply depressed. So I get why they voted Trump. (BTW-- this was a part of the South with openly racist, homophobic people who have never met a Muslim, and fly a confederate fly on their pickup, so there is some of that too).

But, putting aside for the moment how we got here-- those jobs aren't coming back. But don't tell that to my High school classmates on my FB feed, who are waiting for Trump to revive the furniture, textile and tobacco industries. And these now 40 year old often dropped out of school the day they turned 16 to work in the furniture factory, like their dad and grandad. So, they have no transferable skills or education. It's a terrible position for anyone to be in. But, telling them manufacturing is coming back is cruel. It's just not. And until someone is brave enough to be up front about that and offer real retraining programs, and tell them that their next job may pay less, they are screwed. It's like my whole hometown is waiting for Trump Godot.

And, BTW, this is in NC. So good luck with trying to bring in new industries to replace those that left while the politicians running the state are more concerned about making sure transgendered people are using the correct bathroom than bringing in new business. The whole state is being boycotted.

I was one of the few people I know in this area who was not shocked Trump won, because I get why people voted for him. But because I do care about where I came from, his win was tough for me. I do believe that under his policies, my Fed job and college elite lifestyle in the DMV area wil be fine, I will pay less taxes and continue to have good federal health insurance. But my hometown will be worse of in 4 years than it is now. And they do need real help.

Thanks for your refreshing take on the situation . In the spirit of truthfulness , it's safe to say your 'people ' are simply idiotic , at least the majority in that demography. I am not one to pay much attention to an individual's academic pedigree simply because I believe there comes a time in life when we all have to exercise better judgement , or, at the very least try as hard as we can to think critically and calmly for ourselves . If, in spite of everything you wrote above those people still choose to cling to a world that stopped existing thanks in no small part to the policies they've voted for . I think my sympathy is reserved for a more deserving group , your 'people ' aren't making the cut


You're absolutely right , these folks are about to be worse off than they're now . They have it coming

Do they have it coming? Yes and no. I asked my MS DD after the election, when I was explaining it to her, what percentage of people she though had a college degree. And she said everyone did. That is her world. Almost everyone she knows in the community went to college. She could not fathom a place, like my high school, where maybe 1/4 of the kids went to some type of 2 or 4 year college. And many of those did not get a degree. And only 2-3 kids per graduating class made it out. Generational poverty and generations of families where no one has a high school education, and where the expectation is that you will drop out and work as soon as you legally can is not easy to fix. And it's hard for someone with a 10 th grade education to understand the intricacies of NAFTA or health insurance markets. Especially when that 10th grade education was in crappy schools, and they are functionally illiterate. This is not the WAPo, NPR crowd. Think more Friday Night Lights, with less football talent.

So yes, they made bad decisions, and hurt themselves, and the rest of us. But I'm not sure they have the education or savvy to understand that Trump was selling snake oil.

And it's just complicated. This is where I grew up, and where my parents still live. But, DH and I made a very conscious decision not to raise our children there. I care about the people there, and am also deeply disappointed in them. They were at one point "my people," although I never really 100% fit in. But, I could not move back now and just become part of the community again. If I was unusual at 15, at 40, I'm an alien.

It's sad, and depressing, and complicated with no apparent fix. But it is not as simple as idiots who deserve what they get.

For every choice we make there's a consequence , either we like it or not . By voting for a man so professionally and temperamentally unqualified to be president , they must have what it takes to withstand the consequences

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in the rural furniture and textile South. Except the furniture plants moved overseas and the textile plants went bankrupt. Tobacco is winding down too. And the area, which was no great shakes and pretty poor to begin with, is now deeply depressed. So I get why they voted Trump. (BTW-- this was a part of the South with openly racist, homophobic people who have never met a Muslim, and fly a confederate fly on their pickup, so there is some of that too).

But, putting aside for the moment how we got here-- those jobs aren't coming back. But don't tell that to my High school classmates on my FB feed, who are waiting for Trump to revive the furniture, textile and tobacco industries. And these now 40 year old often dropped out of school the day they turned 16 to work in the furniture factory, like their dad and grandad. So, they have no transferable skills or education. It's a terrible position for anyone to be in. But, telling them manufacturing is coming back is cruel. It's just not. And until someone is brave enough to be up front about that and offer real retraining programs, and tell them that their next job may pay less, they are screwed. It's like my whole hometown is waiting for Trump Godot.

And, BTW, this is in NC. So good luck with trying to bring in new industries to replace those that left while the politicians running the state are more concerned about making sure transgendered people are using the correct bathroom than bringing in new business. The whole state is being boycotted.

I was one of the few people I know in this area who was not shocked Trump won, because I get why people voted for him. But because I do care about where I came from, his win was tough for me. I do believe that under his policies, my Fed job and college elite lifestyle in the DMV area wil be fine, I will pay less taxes and continue to have good federal health insurance. But my hometown will be worse of in 4 years than it is now. And they do need real help.

Thanks for your refreshing take on the situation . In the spirit of truthfulness , it's safe to say your 'people ' are simply idiotic , at least the majority in that demography. I am not one to pay much attention to an individual's academic pedigree simply because I believe there comes a time in life when we all have to exercise better judgement , or, at the very least try as hard as we can to think critically and calmly for ourselves . If, in spite of everything you wrote above those people still choose to cling to a world that stopped existing thanks in no small part to the policies they've voted for . I think my sympathy is reserved for a more deserving group , your 'people ' aren't making the cut


You're absolutely right , these folks are about to be worse off than they're now . They have it coming

Do they have it coming? Yes and no. I asked my MS DD after the election, when I was explaining it to her, what percentage of people she though had a college degree. And she said everyone did. That is her world. Almost everyone she knows in the community went to college. She could not fathom a place, like my high school, where maybe 1/4 of the kids went to some type of 2 or 4 year college. And many of those did not get a degree. And only 2-3 kids per graduating class made it out. Generational poverty and generations of families where no one has a high school education, and where the expectation is that you will drop out and work as soon as you legally can is not easy to fix. And it's hard for someone with a 10 th grade education to understand the intricacies of NAFTA or health insurance markets. Especially when that 10th grade education was in crappy schools, and they are functionally illiterate. This is not the WAPo, NPR crowd. Think more Friday Night Lights, with less football talent.

So yes, they made bad decisions, and hurt themselves, and the rest of us. But I'm not sure they have the education or savvy to understand that Trump was selling snake oil.

And it's just complicated. This is where I grew up, and where my parents still live. But, DH and I made a very conscious decision not to raise our children there. I care about the people there, and am also deeply disappointed in them. They were at one point "my people," although I never really 100% fit in. But, I could not move back now and just become part of the community again. If I was unusual at 15, at 40, I'm an alien.

It's sad, and depressing, and complicated with no apparent fix. But it is not as simple as idiots who deserve what they get.

Sorry, it's hard to have sympathy for them when I see poor legal immigrants who don't speak any English manage to find *some* kind of job, and push their kids to go to college. Those people you speak of have two major advantages most immigrants don't have: knowing the language and culture of this country. There really should be no excuse.

[Anonymous]

Republicans routinely disparage college. When Obama implied that everyone should have the opportunity to go to college, they called it "elitist snobbery". Remember Rick Santorum? http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2012/01/07/santorum-all-students-shouldnt-be-pushed-to-go-to-college/

You have to read that quote to believe it.

[Anonymous]

To be fair, college isn't for everyone. The problem is, the vocational jobs are not where these people live. High impact and demand for all of the trades, but they are where the populations are. If you live in rural Kentucky or Kansas, there is little demand for tradesmen. Sure some plumbers and construction, but you need the high density, high growth to sustain the trades. Those are jobs that just aren't in high demand in areas where people drop out of school in 10th grade. McDonalds, 7-11 type service jobs, but even those can be hard to come by.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To be fair, college isn't for everyone. The problem is, the vocational jobs are not where these people live. High impact and demand for all of the trades, but they are where the populations are. If you live in rural Kentucky or Kansas, there is little demand for tradesmen. Sure some plumbers and construction, but you need the high density, high growth to sustain the trades. Those are jobs that just aren't in high demand in areas where people drop out of school in 10th grade. McDonalds, 7-11 type service jobs, but even those can be hard to come by.

Then those people need to move, like their immigrant ancestors did, like today's immigrants do. Those people at least speak the language, and they don't have to move to a different country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Coming from the midwest, I thought this was very true:

Republicans have mastered wielding the struggles of poor white Americans as a cudgel against blacks, against Latinos, against women, against Jews and Muslims and LGBTQ folks. See them? They’re to blame for your struggle. You’re hurting because of them! I am tired of wealthy conservatives who have never set foot among us “white trash”—and sure as hell wouldn’t want their children marrying us—filming campaign commercials of themselves wading through star-spangled cornfields and ranting about the so-called “liberal bubble” and every buzzword that goes with it: Hollywood, communists, “college educated,” etc

Democrats have used the struggles of poor minorities as a cudgel against whites etc. as if they alone are the solution to change their station in life. Yet when in power, little to nothing changes.

Agree. Dems are just mad because their use of identity politics didn't triumph. They thought it would pay off to tell poor white people to check their privilege and to vote for the Dem candidate or else they're racist.

Turns out it didn't.

Stop the alt right talking point. Republicans created identity politics with the Southern Strategy. Both parties do it. BTW, there is nothing wrong with identity politics. Urban people are going to be interested in different issues than rural people.

Do you also think the Sexual Revolution created sex? Identity politics is as old as time. Part of the reason it works is people are simple and lacking a much better option, identity politics is the most attractive solution. It can be useful at times, but yes, often there are things wrong with it.

Urban and rural people have more in common than they have that is different. But there are some very powerful forces that love the divide and conquer solution to their maintenance of power.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in the rural furniture and textile South. Except the furniture plants moved overseas and the textile plants went bankrupt. Tobacco is winding down too. And the area, which was no great shakes and pretty poor to begin with, is now deeply depressed. So I get why they voted Trump. (BTW-- this was a part of the South with openly racist, homophobic people who have never met a Muslim, and fly a confederate fly on their pickup, so there is some of that too).

But, putting aside for the moment how we got here-- those jobs aren't coming back. But don't tell that to my High school classmates on my FB feed, who are waiting for Trump to revive the furniture, textile and tobacco industries. And these now 40 year old often dropped out of school the day they turned 16 to work in the furniture factory, like their dad and grandad. So, they have no transferable skills or education. It's a terrible position for anyone to be in. But, telling them manufacturing is coming back is cruel. It's just not. And until someone is brave enough to be up front about that and offer real retraining programs, and tell them that their next job may pay less, they are screwed. It's like my whole hometown is waiting for Trump Godot.

And, BTW, this is in NC. So good luck with trying to bring in new industries to replace those that left while the politicians running the state are more concerned about making sure transgendered people are using the correct bathroom than bringing in new business. The whole state is being boycotted.

I was one of the few people I know in this area who was not shocked Trump won, because I get why people voted for him. But because I do care about where I came from, his win was tough for me. I do believe that under his policies, my Fed job and college elite lifestyle in the DMV area wil be fine, I will pay less taxes and continue to have good federal health insurance. But my hometown will be worse of in 4 years than it is now. And they do need real help.

Thanks for your refreshing take on the situation . In the spirit of truthfulness , it's safe to say your 'people ' are simply idiotic , at least the majority in that demography. I am not one to pay much attention to an individual's academic pedigree simply because I believe there comes a time in life when we all have to exercise better judgement , or, at the very least try as hard as we can to think critically and calmly for ourselves . If, in spite of everything you wrote above those people still choose to cling to a world that stopped existing thanks in no small part to the policies they've voted for . I think my sympathy is reserved for a more deserving group , your 'people ' aren't making the cut


You're absolutely right , these folks are about to be worse off than they're now . They have it coming

Do they have it coming? Yes and no. I asked my MS DD after the election, when I was explaining it to her, what percentage of people she though had a college degree. And she said everyone did. That is her world. Almost everyone she knows in the community went to college. She could not fathom a place, like my high school, where maybe 1/4 of the kids went to some type of 2 or 4 year college. And many of those did not get a degree. And only 2-3 kids per graduating class made it out. Generational poverty and generations of families where no one has a high school education, and where the expectation is that you will drop out and work as soon as you legally can is not easy to fix. And it's hard for someone with a 10 th grade education to understand the intricacies of NAFTA or health insurance markets. Especially when that 10th grade education was in crappy schools, and they are functionally illiterate. This is not the WAPo, NPR crowd. Think more Friday Night Lights, with less football talent.

So yes, they made bad decisions, and hurt themselves, and the rest of us. But I'm not sure they have the education or savvy to understand that Trump was selling snake oil.

And it's just complicated. This is where I grew up, and where my parents still live. But, DH and I made a very conscious decision not to raise our children there. I care about the people there, and am also deeply disappointed in them. They were at one point "my people," although I never really 100% fit in. But, I could not move back now and just become part of the community again. If I was unusual at 15, at 40, I'm an alien.

It's sad, and depressing, and complicated with no apparent fix. But it is not as simple as idiots who deserve what they get.

I'm not surprised to hear that in some places, they had their doubts about Trump's abilities and honesty, but voted for him because he was the best and perhaps the only way to stick a fork in the eye of their abusers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To be fair, college isn't for everyone. The problem is, the vocational jobs are not where these people live. High impact and demand for all of the trades, but they are where the populations are. If you live in rural Kentucky or Kansas, there is little demand for tradesmen. Sure some plumbers and construction, but you need the high density, high growth to sustain the trades. Those are jobs that just aren't in high demand in areas where people drop out of school in 10th grade. McDonalds, 7-11 type service jobs, but even those can be hard to come by.

Then those people need to move, like their immigrant ancestors did, like today's immigrants do. Those people at least speak the language, and they don't have to move to a different country.

Enclosure Movement 2.0!