Teacher and Admins please share ideas to have merit based pay work

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First fix all the schools. Like working AC and heat and peeling paint and opening windows. Make the conditions actually even across counties and states (the physical plant parts). Then pay all teachers more and thereby having more people go into the profession and be able to pick the best ones for the job. Money is needed to make it a respectable profession so you don't lose people to other sectors because the pay is abysmal. Yea there are great teachers now that have the calling but many don't go into k-12 because of conditions and low pay and limited growth. Oh and get rid of administrative bloat and give principals and teachers more autonomy and less testing!

Their pay is equal, if not more to many similar professions only they get better benefits from many other gov't employees and get two months off plus Thanksgiving, Winter Break and Spring Break. I am so tired of hearing they are underpaid when they have a much cushier job than social workers, public health and more.

Our teacher was complaining this year about how small her classroom was. I thought it was huge and surprised by the comment.

I am a pp. You say teachers are paid better. Better than what? Someone with a master's degree and 20 years experience? No. That is the education level of most teachers after a few years.

Social workers, nurses and other gov't professionals also have master's degree. Our teacher has a few years experience as do most at our public school. The principal ran off most of the seasoned ones. Teachers are better paid. They don't have to go to the worst parts of town into people's homes on a daily basis and much more. Try being a front line social worker, especially somewhere like SE DC.

you should look at what Masters earn in the federal gov't. Or in other word, try living on a teachers salary. 35 yo's with masters make 6 figures mostly, unless they are teachers.

I was a social worker in DC making under $40,000 a year in SE DC. A teachers salary was higher starting and I had about 7 years experience. Most 35 yo's with masters are not making 6 figures depending on their career field. Teachers are not underpaid and if you feel you are, find a new profession.

As a social worker you were not responsible for educating children. That's the key that makes teaching such a noble and unique profession. This fact was pointed out by another poster earlier in this communication by one that some deliberately overlook.

You're right, we are not responsible for doing the actual educating, but we are responsible for making sure their educational needs get met. Many kids in foster care or at home in at risk placements have fallen through the cracks at school and a good social worker needs to find the resources to get those kids privately assessed, get them IEP's to get their needs met in school or get them into private placements. Its not a simple job as you may think. It is an extremely complex job trying to deal with many aspects of someone's life. We are responsible for the failures of the school, most of which just ignore the issues rather than try to resolve them. I can't tell your how many times I got calls from teachers about behavior. These were good kids who fell through the cracks and didn't have the basic reading, math and writing skills to make it in jr. high or high school so they'd act up as a distraction to get out of doing work they could not do. And, that's just one aspect of their lives. If we had teachers who put in the effort starting early on, these kids would have been identified, pulled out for supports and possibly been in a better situation to succeed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First fix all the schools. Like working AC and heat and peeling paint and opening windows. Make the conditions actually even across counties and states (the physical plant parts). Then pay all teachers more and thereby having more people go into the profession and be able to pick the best ones for the job. Money is needed to make it a respectable profession so you don't lose people to other sectors because the pay is abysmal. Yea there are great teachers now that have the calling but many don't go into k-12 because of conditions and low pay and limited growth. Oh and get rid of administrative bloat and give principals and teachers more autonomy and less testing!

Their pay is equal, if not more to many similar professions only they get better benefits from many other gov't employees and get two months off plus Thanksgiving, Winter Break and Spring Break. I am so tired of hearing they are underpaid when they have a much cushier job than social workers, public health and more.

Our teacher was complaining this year about how small her classroom was. I thought it was huge and surprised by the comment.

I am a pp. You say teachers are paid better. Better than what? Someone with a master's degree and 20 years experience? No. That is the education level of most teachers after a few years.

Social workers, nurses and other gov't professionals also have master's degree. Our teacher has a few years experience as do most at our public school. The principal ran off most of the seasoned ones. Teachers are better paid. They don't have to go to the worst parts of town into people's homes on a daily basis and much more. Try being a front line social worker, especially somewhere like SE DC.

you should look at what Masters earn in the federal gov't. Or in other word, try living on a teachers salary. 35 yo's with masters make 6 figures mostly, unless they are teachers.

I was a social worker in DC making under $40,000 a year in SE DC. A teachers salary was higher starting and I had about 7 years experience. Most 35 yo's with masters are not making 6 figures depending on their career field. Teachers are not underpaid and if you feel you are, find a new profession.

As a social worker you were not responsible for educating children. That's the key that makes teaching such a noble and unique profession. This fact was pointed out by another poster earlier in this communication by one that some deliberately overlook.

You're right, we are not responsible for doing the actual educating, but we are responsible for making sure their educational needs get met. Many kids in foster care or at home in at risk placements have fallen through the cracks at school and a good social worker needs to find the resources to get those kids privately assessed, get them IEP's to get their needs met in school or get them into private placements. Its not a simple job as you may think. It is an extremely complex job trying to deal with many aspects of someone's life. We are responsible for the failures of the school, most of which just ignore the issues rather than try to resolve them. I can't tell your how many times I got calls from teachers about behavior. These were good kids who fell through the cracks and didn't have the basic reading, math and writing skills to make it in jr. high or high school so they'd act up as a distraction to get out of doing work they could not do. And, that's just one aspect of their lives. If we had teachers who put in the effort starting early on, these kids would have been identified, pulled out for supports and possibly been in a better situation to succeed.

Still not the same role as a teacher.

Why is that hard to understand???

This is not a pissing match. Everyone works hard. But a teacher's job is a unique one that touches ALL lives--not just those in despair, as the majority of our students will never interact with a social worker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
As a social worker you were not responsible for educating children. That's the key that makes teaching such a noble and unique profession. This fact was pointed out by another poster earlier in this communication by one that some deliberately overlook.

This is such a weird line of reasoning. Social workers can be responsible for keeping children alive and safe. They can be responsible for keeping elderly people alive and safe. Disabled people alive and safe. They can be responsible for keeping people functional and capable of living in society. They can be responsible for helping people be successful.

Sanitation workers are responsible for making sure we don't all live in filth and die of disease. I mean, really, what jobs do you think people hold that aren't important on some level?

Ok, mine. I'm a scientist. I contribute to general knowledge, but I'm not working in areas of health and safety, so I'm worthless on your scale of importance. But most of the people I know are in jobs that contribute to the general welfare in some way. My DH works for the phone company, making sure you can call for help in emergencies. My mother's a teacher (apparently the most sacred of professions) and my father's an engineer making sure the bridges you drive over don't crumble beneath your car and kill you. Which one of them should get the most money?

How strange some of you people are.

And without TEACHERS none of those professions would be possible.

And without water sanitation engineers and workers, teachers wouldn't have anyone to teach. How weird do you want to get?

You make absolutely no sense. But that's what happens when people would rather argue than discuss. Argue rather than accept truth.

Teachers affect ALL lives--the doctors, lawyers, engineers and sanitation workers. No other profession does that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would like fcps to propose additional stipends for curriculum help and lead teacher work this year as part of teacher salary raises.

I agree. Pay extra for team leaders and curriculum leads. I'm okay with my base pay.

I'd like to see better retiree healthcare benefits (ex. School board pick up some of the premium).

As a teacher what mechanism do you have to make sure this is part of the salary increase this year.

Nothing that has much weight. Email school board and BOS. Speak to SB members.

I doubt if they'll look to improve benefits anytime soon.

I am happy to do this, but it helps much more if teachers actually get involved. There must be some mechanisms where teachers have the ability to make suggestions within the system. It's a little awkward for parents to be emailing about how teachers should get paid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
As a social worker you were not responsible for educating children. That's the key that makes teaching such a noble and unique profession. This fact was pointed out by another poster earlier in this communication by one that some deliberately overlook.

This is such a weird line of reasoning. Social workers can be responsible for keeping children alive and safe. They can be responsible for keeping elderly people alive and safe. Disabled people alive and safe. They can be responsible for keeping people functional and capable of living in society. They can be responsible for helping people be successful.

Sanitation workers are responsible for making sure we don't all live in filth and die of disease. I mean, really, what jobs do you think people hold that aren't important on some level?

Ok, mine. I'm a scientist. I contribute to general knowledge, but I'm not working in areas of health and safety, so I'm worthless on your scale of importance. But most of the people I know are in jobs that contribute to the general welfare in some way. My DH works for the phone company, making sure you can call for help in emergencies. My mother's a teacher (apparently the most sacred of professions) and my father's an engineer making sure the bridges you drive over don't crumble beneath your car and kill you. Which one of them should get the most money?

How strange some of you people are.

And without TEACHERS none of those professions would be possible.

And without water sanitation engineers and workers, teachers wouldn't have anyone to teach. How weird do you want to get?

You make absolutely no sense. But that's what happens when people would rather argue than discuss. Argue rather than accept truth.

Teachers affect ALL lives--the doctors, lawyers, engineers and sanitation workers. No other profession does that.

I'm not sure why this argument keeps going on. It doesn't help to put other professions down so a teacher can be more respected. Respect doesn't work that way. Teachers should be duly compensated for their work according to the market. Over the years I think we can adequately say that classroom teachers in particular don't get paid for the extra work they have to do and this should change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would like fcps to propose additional stipends for curriculum help and lead teacher work this year as part of teacher salary raises.

I agree. Pay extra for team leaders and curriculum leads. I'm okay with my base pay.

I'd like to see better retiree healthcare benefits (ex. School board pick up some of the premium).

As a teacher what mechanism do you have to make sure this is part of the salary increase this year.

Nothing that has much weight. Email school board and BOS. Speak to SB members.

I doubt if they'll look to improve benefits anytime soon.

I am happy to do this, but it helps much more if teachers actually get involved. There must be some mechanisms where teachers have the ability to make suggestions within the system. It's a little awkward for parents to be emailing about how teachers should get paid.

I'm the teacher in the PP who said I email and talk to SB and members of the BOS.

We don't have many mechanisms that carry much weight. Not in a Right To Work state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
As a social worker you were not responsible for educating children. That's the key that makes teaching such a noble and unique profession. This fact was pointed out by another poster earlier in this communication by one that some deliberately overlook.

This is such a weird line of reasoning. Social workers can be responsible for keeping children alive and safe. They can be responsible for keeping elderly people alive and safe. Disabled people alive and safe. They can be responsible for keeping people functional and capable of living in society. They can be responsible for helping people be successful.

Sanitation workers are responsible for making sure we don't all live in filth and die of disease. I mean, really, what jobs do you think people hold that aren't important on some level?

Ok, mine. I'm a scientist. I contribute to general knowledge, but I'm not working in areas of health and safety, so I'm worthless on your scale of importance. But most of the people I know are in jobs that contribute to the general welfare in some way. My DH works for the phone company, making sure you can call for help in emergencies. My mother's a teacher (apparently the most sacred of professions) and my father's an engineer making sure the bridges you drive over don't crumble beneath your car and kill you. Which one of them should get the most money?

How strange some of you people are.

And without TEACHERS none of those professions would be possible.

And without water sanitation engineers and workers, teachers wouldn't have anyone to teach. How weird do you want to get?

You make absolutely no sense. But that's what happens when people would rather argue than discuss. Argue rather than accept truth.

Teachers affect ALL lives--the doctors, lawyers, engineers and sanitation workers. No other profession does that.

You have a weirdly narrow view.

The clean drinking water that comes out of your tap, out of all your neighbors taps, and out of the taps at the school where teachers teach? Is critical to life and health. The people maintaining that water plant and water sources are touching more lives than a teacher does. Since that's your metric, they win, teachers lose.

Garbage collectors touch more lives than teachers do. Postal workers too, though they aren't critical to life and health, like garbage collectors are.

Your argument is weird. Teachers teach. No, garbage collectors don't teach. But teachers also don't collect garbage. So what? There are a ton of jobs that are critical to our health, our lives, our growth as humans. Teachers are unique special snowflakes, just like all those other jobs.

[Anonymous]

Is this a serious argument? This may be the stupidest argument I have seen yet on this forum--and, there have been some pretty stupid ones before this.

Of course, teachers are important. But, there are LOTS and LOTS of important occupations that touch us all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is this a serious argument? This may be the stupidest argument I have seen yet on this forum--and, there have been some pretty stupid ones before this.

Of course, teachers are important. But, there are LOTS and LOTS of important occupations that touch us all.

I agree. Teacher here and as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I hate when these discussions turn into a "I have to do this, you don't have to do that" contest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would like fcps to propose additional stipends for curriculum help and lead teacher work this year as part of teacher salary raises.

I agree. Pay extra for team leaders and curriculum leads. I'm okay with my base pay.

I'd like to see better retiree healthcare benefits (ex. School board pick up some of the premium).

As a teacher what mechanism do you have to make sure this is part of the salary increase this year.

Nothing that has much weight. Email school board and BOS. Speak to SB members.

I doubt if they'll look to improve benefits anytime soon.

I am happy to do this, but it helps much more if teachers actually get involved. There must be some mechanisms where teachers have the ability to make suggestions within the system. It's a little awkward for parents to be emailing about how teachers should get paid.

I'm the teacher in the PP who said I email and talk to SB and members of the BOS.

We don't have many mechanisms that carry much weight. Not in a Right To Work state.

That is great. Parents will support you if we know that teachers also feel the same way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First fix all the schools. Like working AC and heat and peeling paint and opening windows. Make the conditions actually even across counties and states (the physical plant parts). Then pay all teachers more and thereby having more people go into the profession and be able to pick the best ones for the job. Money is needed to make it a respectable profession so you don't lose people to other sectors because the pay is abysmal. Yea there are great teachers now that have the calling but many don't go into k-12 because of conditions and low pay and limited growth. Oh and get rid of administrative bloat and give principals and teachers more autonomy and less testing!

Their pay is equal, if not more to many similar professions only they get better benefits from many other gov't employees and get two months off plus Thanksgiving, Winter Break and Spring Break. I am so tired of hearing they are underpaid when they have a much cushier job than social workers, public health and more.

Our teacher was complaining this year about how small her classroom was. I thought it was huge and surprised by the comment.

I am a pp. You say teachers are paid better. Better than what? Someone with a master's degree and 20 years experience? No. That is the education level of most teachers after a few years.

Social workers, nurses and other gov't professionals also have master's degree. Our teacher has a few years experience as do most at our public school. The principal ran off most of the seasoned ones. Teachers are better paid. They don't have to go to the worst parts of town into people's homes on a daily basis and much more. Try being a front line social worker, especially somewhere like SE DC.

you should look at what Masters earn in the federal gov't. Or in other word, try living on a teachers salary. 35 yo's with masters make 6 figures mostly, unless they are teachers.

I was a social worker in DC making under $40,000 a year in SE DC. A teachers salary was higher starting and I had about 7 years experience. Most 35 yo's with masters are not making 6 figures depending on their career field. Teachers are not underpaid and if you feel you are, find a new profession.

As a social worker you were not responsible for educating children. That's the key that makes teaching such a noble and unique profession. This fact was pointed out by another poster earlier in this communication by one that some deliberately overlook.

You're right, we are not responsible for doing the actual educating, but we are responsible for making sure their educational needs get met. Many kids in foster care or at home in at risk placements have fallen through the cracks at school and a good social worker needs to find the resources to get those kids privately assessed, get them IEP's to get their needs met in school or get them into private placements. Its not a simple job as you may think. It is an extremely complex job trying to deal with many aspects of someone's life. We are responsible for the failures of the school, most of which just ignore the issues rather than try to resolve them. I can't tell your how many times I got calls from teachers about behavior. These were good kids who fell through the cracks and didn't have the basic reading, math and writing skills to make it in jr. high or high school so they'd act up as a distraction to get out of doing work they could not do. And, that's just one aspect of their lives. If we had teachers who put in the effort starting early on, these kids would have been identified, pulled out for supports and possibly been in a better situation to succeed.

Think about the children who require an intervention from social workers. Do most of them come from families that listen to teachers telling them that their child needs to read every night, do their homework, go to bed on time, etc?

Also, aren't teachers one of the main categories of people who contact CPS because they see children who need your help?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this a serious argument? This may be the stupidest argument I have seen yet on this forum--and, there have been some pretty stupid ones before this.

Of course, teachers are important. But, there are LOTS and LOTS of important occupations that touch us all.

I agree. Teacher here and as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I hate when these discussions turn into a "I have to do this, you don't have to do that" contest.

I believe the entire point is to shut down any attempts at discussing merit pay for teachers. The people claim that teaching is so special, so different, that it's just not possible to determine how they're doing at their profession and have any element of pay reflect that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would like fcps to propose additional stipends for curriculum help and lead teacher work this year as part of teacher salary raises.

I agree. Pay extra for team leaders and curriculum leads. I'm okay with my base pay.

I'd like to see better retiree healthcare benefits (ex. School board pick up some of the premium).

As a teacher what mechanism do you have to make sure this is part of the salary increase this year.

Nothing that has much weight. Email school board and BOS. Speak to SB members.

I doubt if they'll look to improve benefits anytime soon.

I am happy to do this, but it helps much more if teachers actually get involved. There must be some mechanisms where teachers have the ability to make suggestions within the system. It's a little awkward for parents to be emailing about how teachers should get paid.

I'm the teacher in the PP who said I email and talk to SB and members of the BOS.

We don't have many mechanisms that carry much weight. Not in a Right To Work state.

That is great. Parents will support you if we know that teachers also feel the same way.

I have participated in small focus groups with school board members. It seems things have changed in the 25 years I've been teaching. Younger teachers don't tend to stay or don't plan to stay in the classroom for 20+ years. They would prefer the money in salary and don't necessarily want it deferred to pensions or healthcare costs. Of course those of us who have been around a while start to look at things like retiree healthcare premiums, which in comparison to many surrounding districts is fairly expensive for FCPS retirees:

https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/pdf/2017%20Retiree%20Premium%20Charts.pdf

[Anonymous]

I keep hearing there are more teachers who now make teaching a long term career. Which is it?

[Anonymous]

I don't know about the current teachers--but the perks of teaching are now disappearing. It used to be that creativity in the classroom was an asset, now the "powers that be" seem to want everyone doing the same thing at the same time.

Hours and summer vacations also used to be an asset--but, now, there are many jobs that are far more flexible. People are allowed to work from home these days--teachers cannot do that. People can work flex hours--teachers hours are set. People get far more vacation than they did back in the day. (Believe it or not--the common vacation was two weeks when I was a child. Three if you worked at the place a long, long time--maybe)

So, the perks that went with teaching are no longer better than at other jobs. And, the satisfaction has diminished due to all the teaching to the test. The job is much more stressful--and, it seems--at least from my experience and comparing it to these forums--that we have extremes in parenting. It appears to be either failed attempts to get parents involved-or the other extreme-parents who are hovering constantly over the classroom-or in the classroom.