Truck kills 30 in France

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Driver drove a mack truck at a very high rate of speed straight into the crowd celebrating Bastille Day. Horrific.

And we keep bringing more and more radical Islamists into Europe and into the US (2 Virginia men arrested laser week for conspiring with Isis) and no matter how nice or welcoming we are we will be doomed.

I know it's not convenient to your narrative about the bad refugees, but one of those guys was born in Brooklyn. And the Paris attackers were born in France and Belgium and had EU passports. They all grew up in the West and then turned into something else. They weren't "brought in." Who knows what this latest monster's story is, but this problem is far deeper and more complex than recent immigrants and refugees.

I know it's not convenient for your narrative to do your research. Most of the terrorists are second generation. Parents okay but children become radicalized. Do your research and study the facts. Facts don't lie.

And I will add - yes they were brought here as the children of immigrants or they were born here shortly thereafter. There is an ideology that is different. No other immigrants or second generation immigrants are waging war on innocent people like this.

+1000.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:Of course it matters if it is an ongoing pattern. They are Sunni Muslim extremists that want to wipe out all Shias as well. All the Muslims they attack are Shias.

That's not true. They kill plenty of Sunnis as well. Some of the ISIS guys aren't even very religious -- or at least don't know very much about Islam. To the extent that ISIS has a religious ideology -- they tend to be very flexible rather than doctrinaire -- they are Wahhabist.

ISIS is proving very adept at exploiting underlying resentments. They aren't simply reading Quran verses and convincing people to launch attacks. Rather, they find someone who is pissed off at everything and provide an outlet for that anger. Right now we are in a vicious circle in which attacks like this increase anti-Islamism in the West and that, in turn, increases alienation among Muslims. I fear that none of our leaders have the foresight to break the cycle and most Americans wouldn't support such a strategy if one did. So, things will only get worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What exactly would Hillary do to protect us???

Speak to them for a cool $250,000 and insist on private air travel for her and 2/3 staff and first class accommodations.

She's a war hawk. I'm afraid she'll declare war on ISIS. That's what you seem to want, even though you're blinded by your Hillary-hatred.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Driver drove a mack truck at a very high rate of speed straight into the crowd celebrating Bastille Day. Horrific.

And we keep bringing more and more radical Islamists into Europe and into the US (2 Virginia men arrested laser week for conspiring with Isis) and no matter how nice or welcoming we are we will be doomed.

I know it's not convenient to your narrative about the bad refugees, but one of those guys was born in Brooklyn. And the Paris attackers were born in France and Belgium and had EU passports. They all grew up in the West and then turned into something else. They weren't "brought in." Who knows what this latest monster's story is, but this problem is far deeper and more complex than recent immigrants and refugees.

I know it's not convenient for your narrative to do your research. Most of the terrorists are second generation. Parents okay but children become radicalized. Do your research and study the facts. Facts don't lie.

And I will add - yes they were brought here as the children of immigrants or they were born here shortly thereafter. There is an ideology that is different. No other immigrants or second generation immigrants are waging war on innocent people like this.

What ideology? Terrorism?

Radical Islam - all vow their allegiance to Allah and quote the Quran and Quran has many passages that say "kill the non- believers" etc...

I have Muslim friends that left these countries because of this ideology.

So, it's terrorism. Does it matter in whose name it's committed?

Absolutely. There is this thing that law enforcement, lawyers, judges, etc. talk about called "motive."

Maybe you have heard this term "motive" in your high school or a TV show.

LOL. Terror-ism. That's your motive, genius

Um, no. Get a dictionary. In short, terrorism is defined in my Websters dictionary as the "SYSTEMIC use of terror as a means of coercion." Motive would be what the terrorists are systemically trying to coerce people to do or not do.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course it matters if it is an ongoing pattern. They are Sunni Muslim extremists that want to wipe out all Shias as well. All the Muslims they attack are Shias.

That's not true. They kill plenty of Sunnis as well. Some of the ISIS guys aren't even very religious -- or at least don't know very much about Islam. To the extent that ISIS has a religious ideology -- they tend to be very flexible rather than doctrinaire -- they are Wahhabist.

ISIS is proving very adept at exploiting underlying resentments. They aren't simply reading Quran verses and convincing people to launch attacks. Rather, they find someone who is pissed off at everything and provide an outlet for that anger. Right now we are in a vicious circle in which attacks like this increase anti-Islamism in the West and that, in turn, increases alienation among Muslims. I fear that none of our leaders have the foresight to break the cycle and most Americans wouldn't support such a strategy if one did. So, things will only get worse.

How exactly do you propose to "break the cycle"?

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course it matters if it is an ongoing pattern. They are Sunni Muslim extremists that want to wipe out all Shias as well. All the Muslims they attack are Shias.

That's not true. They kill plenty of Sunnis as well. Some of the ISIS guys aren't even very religious -- or at least don't know very much about Islam. To the extent that ISIS has a religious ideology -- they tend to be very flexible rather than doctrinaire -- they are Wahhabist.

ISIS is proving very adept at exploiting underlying resentments. They aren't simply reading Quran verses and convincing people to launch attacks. Rather, they find someone who is pissed off at everything and provide an outlet for that anger. Right now we are in a vicious circle in which attacks like this increase anti-Islamism in the West and that, in turn, increases alienation among Muslims. I fear that none of our leaders have the foresight to break the cycle and most Americans wouldn't support such a strategy if one did. So, things will only get worse.

I see what you are saying. I hate being afraid and having to doubt people. The thing is though the LA shooter and Orlando were not alienated. That's what scary. They both had jobs etc... And still turned. Same with Brussels terrorists. Something is happening. I have Muslim friends and they are probably one of the nicest families in DC and have been here for a long time.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course it matters if it is an ongoing pattern. They are Sunni Muslim extremists that want to wipe out all Shias as well. All the Muslims they attack are Shias.

That's not true. They kill plenty of Sunnis as well. Some of the ISIS guys aren't even very religious -- or at least don't know very much about Islam. To the extent that ISIS has a religious ideology -- they tend to be very flexible rather than doctrinaire -- they are Wahhabist.

ISIS is proving very adept at exploiting underlying resentments. They aren't simply reading Quran verses and convincing people to launch attacks. Rather, they find someone who is pissed off at everything and provide an outlet for that anger. Right now we are in a vicious circle in which attacks like this increase anti-Islamism in the West and that, in turn, increases alienation among Muslims. I fear that none of our leaders have the foresight to break the cycle and most Americans wouldn't support such a strategy if one did. So, things will only get worse.

I see what you are saying. I hate being afraid and having to doubt people. The thing is though the LA shooter and Orlando were not alienated. That's what scary. They both had jobs etc... And still turned. Same with Brussels terrorists. Something is happening. I have Muslim friends and they are probably one of the nicest families in DC and have been here for a long time.

I think you are mistaking the appearance of normality with a lack of alienation. I don't know enough about either the LA or Orlando shootings, but I can guess a lot of what they experienced. They lived in a country in which anti-Muslim remarks are common, in which a major Presidential candidate has proposed banning the entry of Muslims, in which another Presidential candidate proposed specific surveillance of Muslim communities, whose government is bombing Muslims over over the place, whose Congress is relentlessly pro-Israel and where even supporting a boycott is considered anti-Semitic. We know that lots middle and lower class white folks are feeling tremendous amounts of resentment due to an array of issues that appear to be undermining their way of life. Imagine overlying all of that resentment with the additional issues of being Muslim? In this country we have Trump telling the white guys that he will look out for them. These alienated Muslims have some guy on the Internet telling them he has a way to address their anger.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:How exactly do you propose to "break the cycle"?

It's not easy, but a good first step is to stop lumping all Muslims in with the terrorists. Calling them Muslims and making them the poster boys of Islam further alienates other Muslims and legitimizes the terrorists as Muslims. That plays into the terrorist agenda. Instead, turn the tables. These guys might call themselves Muslims, but most Muslims don't support them. So, to distinguish them from the majority of Muslims, let's call them something else. I don't really care what, DAESH terrorists maybe, or better yet, DAESH murderers, but don't contribute to their exploitation of Islam. Work to split the terrorists from the non-terrorists.

Also, reconsider our foreign policy. It is almost impossible to find anything in the Middle East and Africa we are doing that supports Democracy and pluralism. Why are we contributing to Saudi Arabia's slaughter in Yemen? Why are we supporting Egypt's dictator who has sentenced hundreds of Muslim Brotherhood members to death? Why are we aligned with al-Qaida affiliates in Syria who are fighting Assad rather than ISIS? Why can't the Democratic Party even refer to the Israeli occupation of Palestinian land in its platform? Today our actions provide more and more ammunition to ISIS and the like. We need to rethink what we are doing.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course it matters if it is an ongoing pattern. They are Sunni Muslim extremists that want to wipe out all Shias as well. All the Muslims they attack are Shias.

That's not true. They kill plenty of Sunnis as well. Some of the ISIS guys aren't even very religious -- or at least don't know very much about Islam. To the extent that ISIS has a religious ideology -- they tend to be very flexible rather than doctrinaire -- they are Wahhabist.

ISIS is proving very adept at exploiting underlying resentments. They aren't simply reading Quran verses and convincing people to launch attacks. Rather, they find someone who is pissed off at everything and provide an outlet for that anger. Right now we are in a vicious circle in which attacks like this increase anti-Islamism in the West and that, in turn, increases alienation among Muslims. I fear that none of our leaders have the foresight to break the cycle and most Americans wouldn't support such a strategy if one did. So, things will only get worse.

I see what you are saying. I hate being afraid and having to doubt people. The thing is though the LA shooter and Orlando were not alienated. That's what scary. They both had jobs etc... And still turned. Same with Brussels terrorists. Something is happening. I have Muslim friends and they are probably one of the nicest families in DC and have been here for a long time.

You are way too smart and analytical to simple minded, angry white men whose solution to any complex problem is to take up a gun and shoot at the problem.

I think you are mistaking the appearance of normality with a lack of alienation. I don't know enough about either the LA or Orlando shootings, but I can guess a lot of what they experienced. They lived in a country in which anti-Muslim remarks are common, in which a major Presidential candidate has proposed banning the entry of Muslims, in which another Presidential candidate proposed specific surveillance of Muslim communities, whose government is bombing Muslims over over the place, whose Congress is relentlessly pro-Israel and where even supporting a boycott is considered anti-Semitic. We know that lots middle and lower class white folks are feeling tremendous amounts of resentment due to an array of issues that appear to be undermining their way of life. Imagine overlying all of that resentment with the additional issues of being Muslim? In this country we have Trump telling the white guys that he will look out for them. These alienated Muslims have some guy on the Internet telling them he has a way to address their anger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What exactly would Hillary do to protect us???

Speak to them for a cool $250,000 and insist on private air travel for her and 2/3 staff and first class accommodations.

This is one of the funniest lines I've read all day!

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course it matters if it is an ongoing pattern. They are Sunni Muslim extremists that want to wipe out all Shias as well. All the Muslims they attack are Shias.

That's not true. They kill plenty of Sunnis as well. Some of the ISIS guys aren't even very religious -- or at least don't know very much about Islam. To the extent that ISIS has a religious ideology -- they tend to be very flexible rather than doctrinaire -- they are Wahhabist.

ISIS is proving very adept at exploiting underlying resentments. They aren't simply reading Quran verses and convincing people to launch attacks. Rather, they find someone who is pissed off at everything and provide an outlet for that anger. Right now we are in a vicious circle in which attacks like this increase anti-Islamism in the West and that, in turn, increases alienation among Muslims. I fear that none of our leaders have the foresight to break the cycle and most Americans wouldn't support such a strategy if one did. So, things will only get worse.

I see what you are saying. I hate being afraid and having to doubt people. The thing is though the LA shooter and Orlando were not alienated. That's what scary. They both had jobs etc... And still turned. Same with Brussels terrorists. Something is happening. I have Muslim friends and they are probably one of the nicest families in DC and have been here for a long time.

I think you are mistaking the appearance of normality with a lack of alienation. I don't know enough about either the LA or Orlando shootings, but I can guess a lot of what they experienced. They lived in a country in which anti-Muslim remarks are common, in which a major Presidential candidate has proposed banning the entry of Muslims, in which another Presidential candidate proposed specific surveillance of Muslim communities, whose government is bombing Muslims over over the place, whose Congress is relentlessly pro-Israel and where even supporting a boycott is considered anti-Semitic. We know that lots middle and lower class white folks are feeling tremendous amounts of resentment due to an array of issues that appear to be undermining their way of life. Imagine overlying all of that resentment with the additional issues of being Muslim? In this country we have Trump telling the white guys that he will look out for them. These alienated Muslims have some guy on the Internet telling them he has a way to address their anger.

Why can't expat Muslims or Arabs support Israel? Is it in their DNA they can't, or are you just making that assumption for them? What exactly are the additional issues of being Muslim? By your logic, with so much oppression, every Muslim in America would be seething and taking up arms. The fact is, Muslims in America live in a free and open society. Part of that is being free to make horrible choices. Does Isis find them, or do they find Isis? Does the FBI find them, or do they find the FBI? Try again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What exactly would Hillary do to protect us???

Speak to them for a cool $250,000 and insist on private air travel for her and 2/3 staff and first class accommodations.

This is one of the funniest lines I've read all day!

It's the most shameful fact I've seen all day.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
Why can't expat Muslims or Arabs support Israel? Is it in their DNA they can't, or are you just making that assumption for them? What exactly are the additional issues of being Muslim? By your logic, with so much oppression, every Muslim in America would be seething and taking up arms. The fact is, Muslims in America live in a free and open society. Part of that is being free to make horrible choices. Does Isis find them, or do they find Isis? Does the FBI find them, or do they find the FBI? Try again.

I don't want to have an argument. Today is a very sad day. I've been to Nice. My son was just in Nice not long ago. I feel really bad about this attack. As as I said, I don't think any of our leaders have the imagination to effectively address this crisis. But, to answer your questions, most of the Arabs in this country are from historic Palestine, Lebanon, or Jordan. These folks are very sympathetic to Palestinians and it would be very unusual for them to support a government that is occupying the Palestinians territories. Many are actually willing to recognize positive aspects of Israel and many Israelis are quite supportive of Palestinians. But, they are very unlikely to support the rubber stamp grant to Israel by the US.

The issues of being Muslim should be obvious. Just read the posts in this forum. Muslims are considered to be pedophiles who oppress women and want to replace the US constitution with Sharia. I never said that Muslims here are oppressed, but that many are alienated. Just as there are many angry white men in this country, only a few of them take up arms. The same is true of Muslims. We should do what we can to remove the factors contributing to alienation.

In the cases of Orlando and California, ISIS never really found the guys. They appear to have found propaganda on the Internet that fed their underlying anger and then decided to act on their own. We are literally losing the battle of ideas in these cases. We need to up our game.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How exactly do you propose to "break the cycle"?

It's not easy, but a good first step is to stop lumping all Muslims in with the terrorists. Calling them Muslims and making them the poster boys of Islam further alienates other Muslims and legitimizes the terrorists as Muslims. That plays into the terrorist agenda. Instead, turn the tables. These guys might call themselves Muslims, but most Muslims don't support them. So, to distinguish them from the majority of Muslims, let's call them something else. I don't really care what, DAESH terrorists maybe, or better yet, DAESH murderers, but don't contribute to their exploitation of Islam. Work to split the terrorists from the non-terrorists.

Also, reconsider our foreign policy. It is almost impossible to find anything in the Middle East and Africa we are doing that supports Democracy and pluralism. Why are we contributing to Saudi Arabia's slaughter in Yemen? Why are we supporting Egypt's dictator who has sentenced hundreds of Muslim Brotherhood members to death? Why are we aligned with al-Qaida affiliates in Syria who are fighting Assad rather than ISIS? Why can't the Democratic Party even refer to the Israeli occupation of Palestinian land in its platform? Today our actions provide more and more ammunition to ISIS and the like. We need to rethink what we are doing.

You can't retrain disparate bands of people through psychological tactics. Do you believe that if the news replaced radical Muslim with Daesh terrorists people would begin - in their minds - to separate the two groups?

We're at damage control stage - totally reactive. The proactive stage hopped on the train and left years ago.

And do you think ANY political figure - from the right or left - would anger AIPAC? No presidential candidate wins w/o AIPAC's support.

As America's bipartisan pro-Israel lobby, AIPAC urges all members of Congress to support Israel through foreign aid, government partnerships, joint anti-terrorism efforts and the promotion of a negotiated two-state solution – a Jewish state of Israel and a demilitarized Palestinian state.

[Anonymous]

There are a couple of hashtags being used to search for info on unaccounted for friends and family. An awful lot of young faces. Majority of pictures are of kids in their teens and early twenties