Application Middle School

[Anonymous]

You just disagree with the reasons you've been given -- concerns about equity.

Hardy didn't have honors classes and advanced math until students who were ready for them enrolled. They assessed the kids who arrived in the first few weeks of school and adjusted.

But your advanced kids have to enroll and show up.

[Anonymous]

Then why is it ok for some MSs (2 identified by PP) to offer advanced classes and everyone else is left to rot? I haven't seen a single thing that explains why an application MS is not appropriate when there are application HS. If one of Bowser's campaign platforms was Alice Deal for all, why aren't they looking into these issues? People need to put Bowser to task on this. Give kids advanced options in all MSs, not just a select few OR have some application MS.

Maybe not all middle schools really need advanced options? Yeah, maybe at a school like Deal where 27% of the class is scoring 5 on the PARCC, there might need to be an advanced class to give those students more challenging work. But at somewhere like Hart MS, only 1% is scoring 4 and 0% reaches 5, so an accelerated class might not serve much purpose.

http://dcps.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcps/publication/attachments/PARCC%202015%20-%20Grade%203-8%20Press%20Deck.pdf

I suppose though that even at a school like Hart, there will be some students who are performing better than others, so maybe it makes sense to track the students into different classes (although I know some people think "track" is a dirty word). If you think your MS needs an accelerated set of classes, is that something your school's principal can do? Or is it something Henderson has to impose from the top down?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Then why is it ok for some MSs (2 identified by PP) to offer advanced classes and everyone else is left to rot? I haven't seen a single thing that explains why an application MS is not appropriate when there are application HS. If one of Bowser's campaign platforms was Alice Deal for all, why aren't they looking into these issues? People need to put Bowser to task on this. Give kids advanced options in all MSs, not just a select few OR have some application MS.

Maybe not all middle schools really need advanced options? Yeah, maybe at a school like Deal where 27% of the class is scoring 5 on the PARCC, there might need to be an advanced class to give those students more challenging work. But at somewhere like Hart MS, only 1% is scoring 4 and 0% reaches 5, so an accelerated class might not serve much purpose.

http://dcps.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcps/publication/attachments/PARCC%202015%20-%20Grade%203-8%20Press%20Deck.pdf

I suppose though that even at a school like Hart, there will be some students who are performing better than others, so maybe it makes sense to track the students into different classes (although I know some people think "track" is a dirty word). If you think your MS needs an accelerated set of classes, is that something your school's principal can do? Or is it something Henderson has to impose from the top down?

Principals can do it. And teachers who can teach 6th grade math will also be certified to teach Algebra 1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Then why is it ok for some MSs (2 identified by PP) to offer advanced classes and everyone else is left to rot? I haven't seen a single thing that explains why an application MS is not appropriate when there are application HS. If one of Bowser's campaign platforms was Alice Deal for all, why aren't they looking into these issues? People need to put Bowser to task on this. Give kids advanced options in all MSs, not just a select few OR have some application MS.

Maybe not all middle schools really need advanced options? Yeah, maybe at a school like Deal where 27% of the class is scoring 5 on the PARCC, there might need to be an advanced class to give those students more challenging work. But at somewhere like Hart MS, only 1% is scoring 4 and 0% reaches 5, so an accelerated class might not serve much purpose.

http://dcps.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcps/publication/attachments/PARCC%202015%20-%20Grade%203-8%20Press%20Deck.pdf

I suppose though that even at a school like Hart, there will be some students who are performing better than others, so maybe it makes sense to track the students into different classes (although I know some people think "track" is a dirty word). If you think your MS needs an accelerated set of classes, is that something your school's principal can do? Or is it something Henderson has to impose from the top down?

Same argument could be made about HS and not all HS really need all those AP options. Perhaps such classes will be undersubscribed, but if you don't set a high bar the kids at these schools have nothing to aspire to but mediocrity. I feel for those kids who are advanced or could be advanced if only pushed in that direction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can see the advantages of a rigorous application school, but I'd rather see every schools capable of effectively serving students of any ability. DC wants it both ways -- no accelerated schools but offer little to meet needs of advanced learners in many MS and up.

I don't want or need my child segregated on any level but I do need my child to be sufficiently challenged. If DCPS can't figure out a way to effectively serve advanced learners it leaves me little choice but to pursue other options.

I don't have children in DCPS MS or HS, so I'm wondering about the underlined part. Is it really true that DCPS doesn't do anything to support advanced learners? I'd heard before that DCPS has honors/advanced classes within each school, which suggests that the more advanced students will get grouped in those classes. Indeed, I'd heard that at schools like Wilson, there's almost a school-within-a-school, because the relatively small subset of honors-class kids effectively takes almost all of their classes together. Is that accurate? Or did I hear wrong?

It's not completely true. Some schools have good options, while others don't.

PP here -- I didn't mean to imply that no school offers anything for advanced learners but it's minimal and definitely not offered at every school. Schools like Hardy and Stuart Hobson have implemented a SEM model but as another PP mentioned it's less 'advanced' than 'not remedial'

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Then why is it ok for some MSs (2 identified by PP) to offer advanced classes and everyone else is left to rot? I haven't seen a single thing that explains why an application MS is not appropriate when there are application HS. If one of Bowser's campaign platforms was Alice Deal for all, why aren't they looking into these issues? People need to put Bowser to task on this. Give kids advanced options in all MSs, not just a select few OR have some application MS.

Maybe not all middle schools really need advanced options? Yeah, maybe at a school like Deal where 27% of the class is scoring 5 on the PARCC, there might need to be an advanced class to give those students more challenging work. But at somewhere like Hart MS, only 1% is scoring 4 and 0% reaches 5, so an accelerated class might not serve much purpose.

http://dcps.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcps/publication/attachments/PARCC%202015%20-%20Grade%203-8%20Press%20Deck.pdf

I suppose though that even at a school like Hart, there will be some students who are performing better than others, so maybe it makes sense to track the students into different classes (although I know some people think "track" is a dirty word). If you think your MS needs an accelerated set of classes, is that something your school's principal can do? Or is it something Henderson has to impose from the top down?

Same argument could be made about HS and not all HS really need all those AP options. Perhaps such classes will be undersubscribed, but if you don't set a high bar the kids at these schools have nothing to aspire to but mediocrity. I feel for those kids who are advanced or could be advanced if only pushed in that direction.

AP in HS is a good illustration at how badly DCPS has handled this issue. They're willing to provide AP in HS on the basis of equity even in schools without enough students able to meet the demands, but they're not willing to provide comparable rigor at MS level. Maybe more of the advanced MS students would stay in the system if DCPS would make any effort to serve their educational needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Then why is it ok for some MSs (2 identified by PP) to offer advanced classes and everyone else is left to rot? I haven't seen a single thing that explains why an application MS is not appropriate when there are application HS. If one of Bowser's campaign platforms was Alice Deal for all, why aren't they looking into these issues? People need to put Bowser to task on this. Give kids advanced options in all MSs, not just a select few OR have some application MS.

Maybe not all middle schools really need advanced options? Yeah, maybe at a school like Deal where 27% of the class is scoring 5 on the PARCC, there might need to be an advanced class to give those students more challenging work. But at somewhere like Hart MS, only 1% is scoring 4 and 0% reaches 5, so an accelerated class might not serve much purpose.

http://dcps.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcps/publication/attachments/PARCC%202015%20-%20Grade%203-8%20Press%20Deck.pdf

I suppose though that even at a school like Hart, there will be some students who are performing better than others, so maybe it makes sense to track the students into different classes (although I know some people think "track" is a dirty word). If you think your MS needs an accelerated set of classes, is that something your school's principal can do? Or is it something Henderson has to impose from the top down?

Same argument could be made about HS and not all HS really need all those AP options. Perhaps such classes will be undersubscribed, but if you don't set a high bar the kids at these schools have nothing to aspire to but mediocrity. I feel for those kids who are advanced or could be advanced if only pushed in that direction.

AP in HS is a good illustration at how badly DCPS has handled this issue. They're willing to provide AP in HS on the basis of equity even in schools without enough students able to meet the demands, but they're not willing to provide comparable rigor at MS level. Maybe more of the advanced MS students would stay in the system if DCPS would make any effort to serve their educational needs.

I honestly believe that DCPS aspires to a very low bar of every child reaching grade level. Outliers only register concern if they fail to meet that goal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Then why is it ok for some MSs (2 identified by PP) to offer advanced classes and everyone else is left to rot? I haven't seen a single thing that explains why an application MS is not appropriate when there are application HS. If one of Bowser's campaign platforms was Alice Deal for all, why aren't they looking into these issues? People need to put Bowser to task on this. Give kids advanced options in all MSs, not just a select few OR have some application MS.

Maybe not all middle schools really need advanced options? Yeah, maybe at a school like Deal where 27% of the class is scoring 5 on the PARCC, there might need to be an advanced class to give those students more challenging work. But at somewhere like Hart MS, only 1% is scoring 4 and 0% reaches 5, so an accelerated class might not serve much purpose.

http://dcps.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcps/publication/attachments/PARCC%202015%20-%20Grade%203-8%20Press%20Deck.pdf

I suppose though that even at a school like Hart, there will be some students who are performing better than others, so maybe it makes sense to track the students into different classes (although I know some people think "track" is a dirty word). If you think your MS needs an accelerated set of classes, is that something your school's principal can do? Or is it something Henderson has to impose from the top down?

Same argument could be made about HS and not all HS really need all those AP options. Perhaps such classes will be undersubscribed, but if you don't set a high bar the kids at these schools have nothing to aspire to but mediocrity. I feel for those kids who are advanced or could be advanced if only pushed in that direction.

AP in HS is a good illustration at how badly DCPS has handled this issue. They're willing to provide AP in HS on the basis of equity even in schools without enough students able to meet the demands, but they're not willing to provide comparable rigor at MS level. Maybe more of the advanced MS students would stay in the system if DCPS would make any effort to serve their educational needs.

To piggyback on that line of thought. Once we've agreed that AP (or IB or whatever advanced coursework) should be offered widely at the HS level (and it seems that we have agreed to that), then the next step should be preparing students to succeed in those courses. Instead of the 2/3/4 range, we could see more students in the 3/4/5 range, if we could somehow harness the collective will to challenge them at the MS level.

Of course, I'm preaching to the choir and howling in the wind at the same time. Nobody in the hierarchy wants to consider that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Then why is it ok for some MSs (2 identified by PP) to offer advanced classes and everyone else is left to rot? I haven't seen a single thing that explains why an application MS is not appropriate when there are application HS. If one of Bowser's campaign platforms was Alice Deal for all, why aren't they looking into these issues? People need to put Bowser to task on this. Give kids advanced options in all MSs, not just a select few OR have some application MS.

Maybe not all middle schools really need advanced options? Yeah, maybe at a school like Deal where 27% of the class is scoring 5 on the PARCC, there might need to be an advanced class to give those students more challenging work. But at somewhere like Hart MS, only 1% is scoring 4 and 0% reaches 5, so an accelerated class might not serve much purpose.

http://dcps.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcps/publication/attachments/PARCC%202015%20-%20Grade%203-8%20Press%20Deck.pdf

I suppose though that even at a school like Hart, there will be some students who are performing better than others, so maybe it makes sense to track the students into different classes (although I know some people think "track" is a dirty word). If you think your MS needs an accelerated set of classes, is that something your school's principal can do? Or is it something Henderson has to impose from the top down?

Same argument could be made about HS and not all HS really need all those AP options. Perhaps such classes will be undersubscribed, but if you don't set a high bar the kids at these schools have nothing to aspire to but mediocrity. I feel for those kids who are advanced or could be advanced if only pushed in that direction.

AP in HS is a good illustration at how badly DCPS has handled this issue. They're willing to provide AP in HS on the basis of equity even in schools without enough students able to meet the demands, but they're not willing to provide comparable rigor at MS level. Maybe more of the advanced MS students would stay in the system if DCPS would make any effort to serve their educational needs.

+1 There is no foresight at all by DCPS. Elementary school students can't leap from basic math/english to AP HS without going through a academically challenging program in MS. It's ludicrous. It's no wonder that so many kids are failing.

[Anonymous]

There just aren't enough 'advanced' middle schoolers to make this a priority -- and the schools where there are small number of advanced students are offering those options.

DCPS had 2237 6th graders last year city-wide - and only 21% were proficient or advanced on PARCC. Only 469 kids in total.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seems like an impossible political pickle.

Any application/test-in program with admissions geared toward high performing MS students will likely be disproportionately filled with upper-SES white and Asian students, much like Fairfax's AAP program. That's the really ugly reality of where the history or race and class has led our society. I'm sure that will continue to shift over time, but it's what we're stuck with now. No one at DCPS or in the Mayor's office wants a student body that doesn't look like DC in terms of race, maybe in part because they see benefits for students from working in a more diverse student body, and also surely in part because of the political headaches that would come from labeling a bunch of predominantly white and Asian rich kids as the "gifted and talented" of DCPS.

To be blunt, what DCPS really needs is a way to set aside a quota of seats for qualified black and Latino students, but the Republicans on the Supreme Court have blocked that approach to affirmative action. So the only way I can see it happening is if DCPS can somehow massage the process to create an appropriate level of diversity. One option is to adjust the application process with interviews that just happen to create enough subjective assessment that allows DCPS to set aside seats. Another option is to locate the school far away from Wards 3 & 4, so the geographic hurdle discourages enough white and Asian applicants. A third option I can think of would be create one school that exists on 3-4 campuses spread around the city. Each campus would likely attract a different mix of races/ethnicities, and no one campus would look like DC's demographics. But DCPS could treat them as one campus for political optics, and in fact could structure the school in a way that fosters lots of communication and coordination among the campuses. I actually could imagine a program like that working well for everyone and leading to some really meaningful interactions that accomplish the best aims of diversity.

Interesting problem. I think there are some possible solutions, but I seriously doubt Mayor Bowser or many other politicians in DC have the guts to try them.

Honestly that sort of blame throwing isn't helpful, there's plenty to go around. One could easily and correctly say that everything that happens in DCPS lies squarely in the laps of Democrats who've been happy with the Teacher Union status quo (not to mention every single apparatus of DC's municipal government has been in the hands of the Democrat machine for decades and look where that's gotten us).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You just disagree with the reasons you've been given -- concerns about equity.

Hardy didn't have honors classes and advanced math until students who were ready for them enrolled. They assessed the kids who arrived in the first few weeks of school and adjusted.

But your advanced kids have to enroll and show up.

This makes plenty of sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There just aren't enough 'advanced' middle schoolers to make this a priority -- and the schools where there are small number of advanced students are offering those options.

DCPS had 2237 6th graders last year city-wide - and only 21% were proficient or advanced on PARCC. Only 469 kids in total.

in DC. yes there are enough advanced kids they just arent in DCPS. DC has the highest concentration of adults with graduate degrees. Smart, educated parents, tend to do well financially and have high acheiving children. these smart parents know that DCPS middle schools generally stink and they bail. Brent attrition is a perfect example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There just aren't enough 'advanced' middle schoolers to make this a priority -- and the schools where there are small number of advanced students are offering those options.

DCPS had 2237 6th graders last year city-wide - and only 21% were proficient or advanced on PARCC. Only 469 kids in total.

in DC. yes there are enough advanced kids they just arent in DCPS. DC has the highest concentration of adults with graduate degrees. Smart, educated parents, tend to do well financially and have high acheiving children. these smart parents know that DCPS middle schools generally stink and they bail. Brent attrition is a perfect example.

And many come back to DCPS for high school. High school is what counts the most - for state by state rankingss, SAT scores, college admissions, etc. Middle school is short and just not that important. If kids have a decent foundation by 5th -- which plenty of DC students don't get -- they're going to do fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There just aren't enough 'advanced' middle schoolers to make this a priority -- and the schools where there are small number of advanced students are offering those options.

DCPS had 2237 6th graders last year city-wide - and only 21% were proficient or advanced on PARCC. Only 469 kids in total.

in DC. yes there are enough advanced kids they just arent in DCPS. DC has the highest concentration of adults with graduate degrees. Smart, educated parents, tend to do well financially and have high acheiving children. these smart parents know that DCPS middle schools generally stink and they bail. Brent attrition is a perfect example.

We're already had two Brent threads this week, we don't need another