Should AAP demographics represent FCPS as a whole

[Anonymous]

Here's a novel idea:

Offer general education, honors, and AAP in ES - similar to MS and HS (GE, honors, AP).

In ES, parents could decide if they wanted their DC in GE or honors. And keep AAP for those who qualify.

My oh my what a GREAT idea!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the difference between discrimination theory and distribution theory.

Both have advocates and merits, but to believe discrimination theory you have to believe all traits exists in equal frequency among all cultures, populations, races, etc.

Just take a look at the NBA.

Blacks are better at basketball primarily because they play it more often and take it up as a hobby at very young ages. And the large proportion of black people in the NBA encourages more black kids to participate in the sport and this effectively snowballs over time. There is also much to the self-fulfilling prophecy / halo effect is in play for Black athletes. For instance, if you remind an Asian student and a Black student of their race prior to an examination (through a demographic questionnaire, for example), the Asian kid will score higher and the Black kid will score lower than what they would have scored without the reminder. Likewise, if you remind an Asian Girl she's Asian prior to a math exam, she'll score higher; while if you remind her she's a girl, she'll score lower. All this to say, because society has stereotypes for different races of kids, they will lead to self-fulfilling feedback loops. When everyone believes Black kids should be great at basketball, it will lead to more confidence and positive feedback (and shaming on the other end of the spectrum), which leads to more practice and competition, which then leads to better athletes. Bias also comes into play. In football quarterbacks are disproportionally white, receivers and RB's black and there are differences in how players are used. A white RB will typically have a fullback role and white receiver typically tasked to short routes even though their measurables indicate they are suited to take larger roles. Black QB's are typically found in spread offenses where they are expected to run more and not called on to run more complicated pass schemes even though the evidence may show the player could run a traditional drop back pass offense. These differences can only be explained by the bias of coaches. It starts at the junior high or youth level as players get slotted into roles often based on a quick perception early in practice.
A white player who would likely be a guard is often steered into baseball.

Thinking of it another way. Are Hispanics/Latinos genetically predisposed to play Baseball well? Nope. But young boys all over central America and the Caribbean play it constantly, at a high level, to best their friends/opponents and neighbors for fun. They become good, they become great - and many wind up in a academy/training/recruiting system which eventually fills the ranks of professional baseball (wherever it is played). They simpler work harder and longer at it . Even weather is a factor; people who live in temperate climate zones are more likely to excel at outdoor sports.

My 7yo Asian-American son loves basketball. He has always loved basketball. It is unlikely that he will ever play in the NBA. DH is 5'9" and I am 5'4". DS is 40% for height right now. I am almost certain he will get into AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the difference between discrimination theory and distribution theory.

Both have advocates and merits, but to believe discrimination theory you have to believe all traits exists in equal frequency among all cultures, populations, races, etc.

Just take a look at the NBA.

Blacks are better at basketball primarily because they play it more often and take it up as a hobby at very young ages. And the large proportion of black people in the NBA encourages more black kids to participate in the sport and this effectively snowballs over time. There is also much to the self-fulfilling prophecy / halo effect is in play for Black athletes. For instance, if you remind an Asian student and a Black student of their race prior to an examination (through a demographic questionnaire, for example), the Asian kid will score higher and the Black kid will score lower than what they would have scored without the reminder. Likewise, if you remind an Asian Girl she's Asian prior to a math exam, she'll score higher; while if you remind her she's a girl, she'll score lower. All this to say, because society has stereotypes for different races of kids, they will lead to self-fulfilling feedback loops. When everyone believes Black kids should be great at basketball, it will lead to more confidence and positive feedback (and shaming on the other end of the spectrum), which leads to more practice and competition, which then leads to better athletes. Bias also comes into play. In football quarterbacks are disproportionally white, receivers and RB's black and there are differences in how players are used. A white RB will typically have a fullback role and white receiver typically tasked to short routes even though their measurables indicate they are suited to take larger roles. Black QB's are typically found in spread offenses where they are expected to run more and not called on to run more complicated pass schemes even though the evidence may show the player could run a traditional drop back pass offense. These differences can only be explained by the bias of coaches. It starts at the junior high or youth level as players get slotted into roles often based on a quick perception early in practice.
A white player who would likely be a guard is often steered into baseball.

Thinking of it another way. Are Hispanics/Latinos genetically predisposed to play Baseball well? Nope. But young boys all over central America and the Caribbean play it constantly, at a high level, to best their friends/opponents and neighbors for fun. They become good, they become great - and many wind up in a academy/training/recruiting system which eventually fills the ranks of professional baseball (wherever it is played). They simpler work harder and longer at it . Even weather is a factor; people who live in temperate climate zones are more likely to excel at outdoor sports.

My 7yo Asian-American son loves basketball. He has always loved basketball. It is unlikely that he will ever play in the NBA. DH is 5'9" and I am 5'4". DS is 40% for height right now. I am almost certain he will get into AAP.

According to the person giving the baseball example... all your child needs to do is play basketball constantly with friends, or go to a training system, or work harder or longer at basketball. Because there clearly isn't a genetic component to anything which matters for basketball... like, perhaps, height.

This rationale always makes me laugh. "Oh, but a child just needs the right environment."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's a novel idea:

Offer general education, honors, and AAP in ES - similar to MS and HS (GE, honors, AP).

In ES, parents could decide if they wanted their DC in GE or honors. And keep AAP for those who qualify.

My oh my what a GREAT idea!!!

Not really.

MANY parents have very unrealistic ideas of their kids' intelligence in elementary, particularly in the younger grades. Moms in the mid to upper elementary grades often (not always) care more about orchestrating their kids' (mostly daughters') placements in everything from class assignments to sports to brownie troops to who goes in what group, to reflect the moms' (and sometimes the kids') social groupings.

Parents would be jostling for placememt based on a whole lot of things that have very little to do with academics.

By middle school, the parents have much more realistic perspdctive on their kids' strengths and weaknessss (but not always) and the kids are usually to the point where they push back on mom orchestrating their friendships.

What you propose would be a nightmare for the teachers and schools, and also the kids who aren't part of "the group."

[Anonymous]

Perhaps. But it allows PARENTS to make the decisions about their child's academics. As it now, if you are not in AAP, you are SOL. So, offering honors-which is open enrollment, allows for parental choice. Don't forget taxpayers (also know as parents) are paying for the public education service. It is about time parents are heard!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps. But it allows PARENTS to make the decisions about their child's academics. As it now, if you are not in AAP, you are SOL. So, offering honors-which is open enrollment, allows for parental choice. Don't forget taxpayers (also know as parents) are paying for the public education service. It is about time parents are heard!

Parents are not in the best position to make these decisions, particularly when kids are just starting school.

You and your attitude are part of the problem. If you are not in AAP you are not SOL as countless bright and successful kids in FCPS demonstrate. I don't know where you get your information, but please come back when your kids have gone through high school.

[Anonymous]

My kids are all n AAP, but I know many who feel their kids in GE are SOL. Parents know best! Start honors in 3rd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids are all n AAP, but I know many who feel their kids in GE are SOL. Parents know best! Start honors in 3rd.

Again, come back when your kids are older. Some parents may know best, but you seem to know very little right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps. But it allows PARENTS to make the decisions about their child's academics. As it now, if you are not in AAP, you are SOL. So, offering honors-which is open enrollment, allows for parental choice. Don't forget taxpayers (also know as parents) are paying for the public education service. It is about time parents are heard!

You are NOT sol if you remainnin AAP. That is flat out wrong, not to mention horribly insulting to the countless exceptional schools and teachers that are not AAP, the talented gen ed teachers who teach in center schools, and the vast majority of intelligent, hard working fcps students who are not in AAP.

Your attitude emphasizes why parents of younger elementary kids are not necessarily the best judge of placement of their kids. You clearly would not place your kid in the best place for him, for all the wrong reasons.

[Anonymous]

What? I am the PP you are referring to. I am also a teacher. I know my kids better than any teacher - especially a teacher who doesn't even know my child - ie the AAP selection committee. Please. Parents want open choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's a novel idea:

Offer general education, honors, and AAP in ES - similar to MS and HS (GE, honors, AP).

In ES, parents could decide if they wanted their DC in GE or honors. And keep AAP for those who qualify.

My oh my what a GREAT idea!!!

I think this is a great idea but it doesn't fix the issue in identifying qualifying gifted minority students. I don't buy into the notion that half of humanity is inherently less intelligent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the difference between discrimination theory and distribution theory.

Both have advocates and merits, but to believe discrimination theory you have to believe all traits exists in equal frequency among all cultures, populations, races, etc.

Just take a look at the NBA.

Blacks are better at basketball primarily because they play it more often and take it up as a hobby at very young ages. And the large proportion of black people in the NBA encourages more black kids to participate in the sport and this effectively snowballs over time. There is also much to the self-fulfilling prophecy / halo effect is in play for Black athletes. For instance, if you remind an Asian student and a Black student of their race prior to an examination (through a demographic questionnaire, for example), the Asian kid will score higher and the Black kid will score lower than what they would have scored without the reminder. Likewise, if you remind an Asian Girl she's Asian prior to a math exam, she'll score higher; while if you remind her she's a girl, she'll score lower. All this to say, because society has stereotypes for different races of kids, they will lead to self-fulfilling feedback loops. When everyone believes Black kids should be great at basketball, it will lead to more confidence and positive feedback (and shaming on the other end of the spectrum), which leads to more practice and competition, which then leads to better athletes. Bias also comes into play. In football quarterbacks are disproportionally white, receivers and RB's black and there are differences in how players are used. A white RB will typically have a fullback role and white receiver typically tasked to short routes even though their measurables indicate they are suited to take larger roles. Black QB's are typically found in spread offenses where they are expected to run more and not called on to run more complicated pass schemes even though the evidence may show the player could run a traditional drop back pass offense. These differences can only be explained by the bias of coaches. It starts at the junior high or youth level as players get slotted into roles often based on a quick perception early in practice.
A white player who would likely be a guard is often steered into baseball.

Thinking of it another way. Are Hispanics/Latinos genetically predisposed to play Baseball well? Nope. But young boys all over central America and the Caribbean play it constantly, at a high level, to best their friends/opponents and neighbors for fun. They become good, they become great - and many wind up in a academy/training/recruiting system which eventually fills the ranks of professional baseball (wherever it is played). They simpler work harder and longer at it . Even weather is a factor; people who live in temperate climate zones are more likely to excel at outdoor sports.

My 7yo Asian-American son loves basketball. He has always loved basketball. It is unlikely that he will ever play in the NBA. DH is 5'9" and I am 5'4". DS is 40% for height right now. I am almost certain he will get into AAP.

According to the person giving the baseball example... all your child needs to do is play basketball constantly with friends, or go to a training system, or work harder or longer at basketball. Because there clearly isn't a genetic component to anything which matters for basketball... like, perhaps, height.

This rationale always makes me laugh. "Oh, but a child just needs the right environment."

You believe part of humanity is inherently less intelligent then and inferior. Someone else believed that as well, I think it was what caused WWII

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's a novel idea:

Offer general education, honors, and AAP in ES - similar to MS and HS (GE, honors, AP).

In ES, parents could decide if they wanted their DC in GE or honors. And keep AAP for those who qualify.

My oh my what a GREAT idea!!!

I think this is a great idea but it doesn't fix the issue in identifying qualifying gifted minority students. I don't buy into the notion that half of humanity is inherently less intelligent.

LOL... sorry to burst your bubble, but yes, half the kids are below average and thus less intelligent than the other half. It's a statistics thing....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's a novel idea:

Offer general education, honors, and AAP in ES - similar to MS and HS (GE, honors, AP).

In ES, parents could decide if they wanted their DC in GE or honors. And keep AAP for those who qualify.

My oh my what a GREAT idea!!!

Yep. I've said this for years. Works great in middle/high school and would work great in elementary school if it was just given a chance. However, I disagree that AAP should be a closed program. It's open to all in high school and should be open to all in elem. and middle school as well. The amount of kids who are fully capable of doing AAP work is greatly underestimated by making it a test-in program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's a novel idea:

Offer general education, honors, and AAP in ES - similar to MS and HS (GE, honors, AP).

In ES, parents could decide if they wanted their DC in GE or honors. And keep AAP for those who qualify.

My oh my what a GREAT idea!!!

I think this is a great idea but it doesn't fix the issue in identifying qualifying gifted minority students. I don't buy into the notion that half of humanity is inherently less intelligent.

LOL... sorry to burst your bubble, but yes, half the kids are below average and thus less intelligent than the other half. It's a statistics thing....

Not the PP, but sorry to burst your bubble. At either end of the spectrum, there are distinct, small groups of kids - but in the middle there is a huge overlap of intelligence and abilities. A child with a 129 CogAT is no different from the child with a 132, yet one may be in Gen Ed and the other in AAP. Why? Completely subjective decision making. There is no way you could claim the kids in the upper 120s are any different from the kids in the lower 130s. They're certainly no less intelligent. Yet FCPS uses AAP to divide these kids into two groups, complete with labels. Utterly moronic.