FCPS teacher salaries--pathetic

[Anonymous]

I'm wondering if we weren't funding free education for all the illegals that Fairfax County harbors (especially since Prince William County stopped), what the budget would show.

And if you think there is a line-item for that, you're fooling yourself - the cost is rolled into other areas so it's hidden from the residents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We contact the supervisors. Ours is Herrity and he insists the school budget is fully funded.

Perhaps the schools just need to make some big time cuts. My wife and I both teach for FCPS. I can see how every year the schools look like they are crying wolf. Changes are made, but overall the public doesn't see them. They aren't affected.

FCPS has made 500 million in cuts and over 2100 positions since 2008. HALF A BILLION INC CUTS. There is nothing left to cut.

Will school continue to be in session? Sure. But if anyone thinks we can maintain any semblance of a high quality education, they are delusional.

Nonsense. This is BS. Actually.....

In 2008 the approved budget was $2,396,899,736
In 2014 the approved budget was $3,458,612,301

Reference: http://www.fcps.edu/fs/budget/budgetdocuments.shtml

The budget has increased 44.3% (by $1,061,712,565) in 7 years.

There have been no cuts. The $500M number is imaginary and is nothing but bureaucratic twisting of numbers based on supposed cuts to requests. Budgets are actually rapidly increasing (see the actual facts in the actual budget documents).

Please make your point honestly. There have been no cuts.

Holy Christ. Where has this 44% increase gone to???? We haven't had a 44% population increase.

It goes towards more bureaucracy.

No it doesn't. The student enrollment has increased by 22K students. And it's not just random students. These students are poorer, need ESOL services and special education services. The number of students qualifying for free/reduced meals in the last 5 years has increased by 28%. The number of students requiring special education services in the last 5 years has increased by almost 14%. More teachers have to be hired. Healthcare costs have been going up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We contact the supervisors. Ours is Herrity and he insists the school budget is fully funded.

Perhaps the schools just need to make some big time cuts. My wife and I both teach for FCPS. I can see how every year the schools look like they are crying wolf. Changes are made, but overall the public doesn't see them. They aren't affected.

FCPS has made 500 million in cuts and over 2100 positions since 2008. HALF A BILLION INC CUTS. There is nothing left to cut.

Will school continue to be in session? Sure. But if anyone thinks we can maintain any semblance of a high quality education, they are delusional.

Nonsense. This is BS. Actually.....

In 2008 the approved budget was $2,396,899,736
In 2014 the approved budget was $3,458,612,301

Reference: http://www.fcps.edu/fs/budget/budgetdocuments.shtml

The budget has increased 44.3% (by $1,061,712,565) in 7 years.

There have been no cuts. The $500M number is imaginary and is nothing but bureaucratic twisting of numbers based on supposed cuts to requests. Budgets are actually rapidly increasing (see the actual facts in the actual budget documents).

Please make your point honestly. There have been no cuts.

Holy Christ. Where has this 44% increase gone to???? We haven't had a 44% population increase.

It goes towards more bureaucracy.

No it doesn't. The student enrollment has increased by 22K students. And it's not just random students. These students are poorer, need ESOL services and special education services. The number of students qualifying for free/reduced meals in the last 5 years has increased by 28%. The number of students requiring special education services in the last 5 years has increased by almost 14%. More teachers have to be hired. Healthcare costs have been going up.

So 22,000 students cost over a billion dollars?

I'm sticking with bureaucracy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We contact the supervisors. Ours is Herrity and he insists the school budget is fully funded.

Perhaps the schools just need to make some big time cuts. My wife and I both teach for FCPS. I can see how every year the schools look like they are crying wolf. Changes are made, but overall the public doesn't see them. They aren't affected.

FCPS has made 500 million in cuts and over 2100 positions since 2008. HALF A BILLION INC CUTS. There is nothing left to cut.

Will school continue to be in session? Sure. But if anyone thinks we can maintain any semblance of a high quality education, they are delusional.

Nonsense. This is BS. Actually.....

In 2008 the approved budget was $2,396,899,736
In 2014 the approved budget was $3,458,612,301

Reference: http://www.fcps.edu/fs/budget/budgetdocuments.shtml

The budget has increased 44.3% (by $1,061,712,565) in 7 years.

There have been no cuts. The $500M number is imaginary and is nothing but bureaucratic twisting of numbers based on supposed cuts to requests. Budgets are actually rapidly increasing (see the actual facts in the actual budget documents).

Please make your point honestly. There have been no cuts.

Holy Christ. Where has this 44% increase gone to???? We haven't had a 44% population increase.

It goes towards more bureaucracy.

No it doesn't. The student enrollment has increased by 22K students. And it's not just random students. These students are poorer, need ESOL services and special education services. The number of students qualifying for free/reduced meals in the last 5 years has increased by 28%. The number of students requiring special education services in the last 5 years has increased by almost 14%. More teachers have to be hired. Healthcare costs have been going up.

So 22,000 students cost over a billion dollars?

I'm sticking with bureaucracy.

These new students are getting many additional teachers and support beyond what a general ed student with no disabilities, ESOL, or FRM status is getting. Also, the school board has raised teacher salaries, has added hours to the school year, has added bussing and increased teachers for full day Mondays, and has added full day Mondays and FLES to many schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We contact the supervisors. Ours is Herrity and he insists the school budget is fully funded.

Perhaps the schools just need to make some big time cuts. My wife and I both teach for FCPS. I can see how every year the schools look like they are crying wolf. Changes are made, but overall the public doesn't see them. They aren't affected.

FCPS has made 500 million in cuts and over 2100 positions since 2008. HALF A BILLION INC CUTS. There is nothing left to cut.

Will school continue to be in session? Sure. But if anyone thinks we can maintain any semblance of a high quality education, they are delusional.

The general public isn't going to push the supervisors to fund the schools' budget unless they notice cuts. I don't want to make more cuts, but if that is what it takes...

Cut instructional coaches, sports (or pay $$$ to play), Level IV AAP, 4th grade strings, some high school electives. Stop paying the AP testing fees.

Cutting AAP will drive a lot of affluent families (and their property taxes) away. The only reason we put up with living in Fairfax rather than Arlington was the existence of AAP.
I'm all for stopping other subsidies such as AP testing fees (which overwhelmingly subsidize the rich), sports (no reason to subsidize athletes' hobbies over any other ones) and cutting positions such as the AAP coordinator (the person at the school who handles your application) and does some of those useless pull-outs a couple of hours a week) and some IAs and counselors.
The school system also needs to dramatically decrease its CIP. We moved here from a city where my kids attended school in buildings that dated back to the late nineteenth century (whose interiors had of course been updated). No fancy buildings like what FCPS builds every 25 years, but the education was better. Same goes for the libraries--fewer shiny new buildings, better books and programs.

How much do sports cost the high schools? Could they all be clubs that are allowed to play on the fields and be affiliated with the school, but not get as much money towards them? Do the schools give financial aid to children who can't pay? The equipment alone is usually very expensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps my DS doesn't need his teacher's aide in his Kindergarten class and the affluent woman that "volunteers".

Virtualy nobody that grew up before the '90's had a teachers aide in these classes.

It's called overhead folks. If the teacher wants more money, then they should get less help.

You also didn't have special needs kids and a ton of kids who don't understand a word of English in your class back then. Add those kids to the group of kids whose parents asking about how their special snowflake is being enriched so that they can get ready for the AAP center.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We contact the supervisors. Ours is Herrity and he insists the school budget is fully funded.

Perhaps the schools just need to make some big time cuts. My wife and I both teach for FCPS. I can see how every year the schools look like they are crying wolf. Changes are made, but overall the public doesn't see them. They aren't affected.

FCPS has made 500 million in cuts and over 2100 positions since 2008. HALF A BILLION INC CUTS. There is nothing left to cut.

Will school continue to be in session? Sure. But if anyone thinks we can maintain any semblance of a high quality education, they are delusional.

Nonsense. This is BS. Actually.....

In 2008 the approved budget was $2,396,899,736
In 2014 the approved budget was $3,458,612,301

Reference: http://www.fcps.edu/fs/budget/budgetdocuments.shtml

The budget has increased 44.3% (by $1,061,712,565) in 7 years.

There have been no cuts. The $500M number is imaginary and is nothing but bureaucratic twisting of numbers based on supposed cuts to requests. Budgets are actually rapidly increasing (see the actual facts in the actual budget documents).

Please make your point honestly. There have been no cuts.

Holy Christ. Where has this 44% increase gone to???? We haven't had a 44% population increase.

It goes towards more bureaucracy.

No it doesn't. The student enrollment has increased by 22K students. And it's not just random students. These students are poorer, need ESOL services and special education services. The number of students qualifying for free/reduced meals in the last 5 years has increased by 28%. The number of students requiring special education services in the last 5 years has increased by almost 14%. More teachers have to be hired. Healthcare costs have been going up.

So 22,000 students cost over a billion dollars?

I'm sticking with bureaucracy.

Between costs going up at about 3-4% and the school population increasing by 22K students, this increase makes sense. Most of these new students count as 2 students each in the staffing formula meaning that they each cost about $20,000-$25,000 per year to educate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We contact the supervisors. Ours is Herrity and he insists the school budget is fully funded.

Perhaps the schools just need to make some big time cuts. My wife and I both teach for FCPS. I can see how every year the schools look like they are crying wolf. Changes are made, but overall the public doesn't see them. They aren't affected.

FCPS has made 500 million in cuts and over 2100 positions since 2008. HALF A BILLION INC CUTS. There is nothing left to cut.

Will school continue to be in session? Sure. But if anyone thinks we can maintain any semblance of a high quality education, they are delusional.

Nonsense. This is BS. Actually.....

In 2008 the approved budget was $2,396,899,736
In 2014 the approved budget was $3,458,612,301

Reference: http://www.fcps.edu/fs/budget/budgetdocuments.shtml

The budget has increased 44.3% (by $1,061,712,565) in 7 years.

There have been no cuts. The $500M number is imaginary and is nothing but bureaucratic twisting of numbers based on supposed cuts to requests. Budgets are actually rapidly increasing (see the actual facts in the actual budget documents).

Please make your point honestly. There have been no cuts.

Holy Christ. Where has this 44% increase gone to???? We haven't had a 44% population increase.

It goes towards more bureaucracy.

No it doesn't. The student enrollment has increased by 22K students. And it's not just random students. These students are poorer, need ESOL services and special education services. The number of students qualifying for free/reduced meals in the last 5 years has increased by 28%. The number of students requiring special education services in the last 5 years has increased by almost 14%. More teachers have to be hired. Healthcare costs have been going up.

So 22,000 students cost over a billion dollars?

I'm sticking with bureaucracy.

These new students are getting many additional teachers and support beyond what a general ed student with no disabilities, ESOL, or FRM status is getting. Also, the school board has raised teacher salaries, has added hours to the school year, has added bussing and increased teachers for full day Mondays, and has added full day Mondays and FLES to many schools.

You seem to have left out the biggest threat to gen ed kids -- AP centers. No other non-gen ed program receives as large a part of the budget than the AP programs and the ridiculous busing costs that go along with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We contact the supervisors. Ours is Herrity and he insists the school budget is fully funded.

Perhaps the schools just need to make some big time cuts. My wife and I both teach for FCPS. I can see how every year the schools look like they are crying wolf. Changes are made, but overall the public doesn't see them. They aren't affected.

FCPS has made 500 million in cuts and over 2100 positions since 2008. HALF A BILLION INC CUTS. There is nothing left to cut.

Will school continue to be in session? Sure. But if anyone thinks we can maintain any semblance of a high quality education, they are delusional.

Nonsense. This is BS. Actually.....

In 2008 the approved budget was $2,396,899,736
In 2014 the approved budget was $3,458,612,301

Reference: http://www.fcps.edu/fs/budget/budgetdocuments.shtml

The budget has increased 44.3% (by $1,061,712,565) in 7 years.

There have been no cuts. The $500M number is imaginary and is nothing but bureaucratic twisting of numbers based on supposed cuts to requests. Budgets are actually rapidly increasing (see the actual facts in the actual budget documents).

Please make your point honestly. There have been no cuts.

Holy Christ. Where has this 44% increase gone to???? We haven't had a 44% population increase.

It goes towards more bureaucracy.

No it doesn't. The student enrollment has increased by 22K students. And it's not just random students. These students are poorer, need ESOL services and special education services. The number of students qualifying for free/reduced meals in the last 5 years has increased by 28%. The number of students requiring special education services in the last 5 years has increased by almost 14%. More teachers have to be hired. Healthcare costs have been going up.

So 22,000 students cost over a billion dollars?

I'm sticking with bureaucracy.

These new students are getting many additional teachers and support beyond what a general ed student with no disabilities, ESOL, or FRM status is getting. Also, the school board has raised teacher salaries, has added hours to the school year, has added bussing and increased teachers for full day Mondays, and has added full day Mondays and FLES to many schools.

You seem to have left out the biggest threat to gen ed kids -- AP centers. No other non-gen ed program receives as large a part of the budget than the AP programs and the ridiculous busing costs that go along with it.

Okay, I hate AAP as much as you PP, but it is not even close to being a large part of the budget. If you look on page 15 of the 2016 budget proposal, you'll see that special education is 18% of the total operating budget with over 460 million allocated. That is real money. AAP, in the scheme of things, doesn't cost that much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We contact the supervisors. Ours is Herrity and he insists the school budget is fully funded.

Perhaps the schools just need to make some big time cuts. My wife and I both teach for FCPS. I can see how every year the schools look like they are crying wolf. Changes are made, but overall the public doesn't see them. They aren't affected.

FCPS has made 500 million in cuts and over 2100 positions since 2008. HALF A BILLION INC CUTS. There is nothing left to cut.

Will school continue to be in session? Sure. But if anyone thinks we can maintain any semblance of a high quality education, they are delusional.

Nonsense. This is BS. Actually.....

In 2008 the approved budget was $2,396,899,736
In 2014 the approved budget was $3,458,612,301

Reference: http://www.fcps.edu/fs/budget/budgetdocuments.shtml

The budget has increased 44.3% (by $1,061,712,565) in 7 years.

There have been no cuts. The $500M number is imaginary and is nothing but bureaucratic twisting of numbers based on supposed cuts to requests. Budgets are actually rapidly increasing (see the actual facts in the actual budget documents).

Please make your point honestly. There have been no cuts.

Holy Christ. Where has this 44% increase gone to???? We haven't had a 44% population increase.

It goes towards more bureaucracy.

No it doesn't. The student enrollment has increased by 22K students. And it's not just random students. These students are poorer, need ESOL services and special education services. The number of students qualifying for free/reduced meals in the last 5 years has increased by 28%. The number of students requiring special education services in the last 5 years has increased by almost 14%. More teachers have to be hired. Healthcare costs have been going up.

So 22,000 students cost over a billion dollars?

I'm sticking with bureaucracy.

These new students are getting many additional teachers and support beyond what a general ed student with no disabilities, ESOL, or FRM status is getting. Also, the school board has raised teacher salaries, has added hours to the school year, has added bussing and increased teachers for full day Mondays, and has added full day Mondays and FLES to many schools.

You seem to have left out the biggest threat to gen ed kids -- AP centers. No other non-gen ed program receives as large a part of the budget than the AP programs and the ridiculous busing costs that go along with it.

If you look at the actual cost of AAP centers, you would find it is 500K/year or less. (500K assumes every AAP kid that is bussed would not be bussed at the base school).
There is zero cost to running the AAP centers compared with base schools...the kids have to be taught, and AAP centers typically have larger enrollments.

there is also a cost for evaluation, but that is relatively small -- and the testing would be required anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Montgomery is only 5k more. Whatever. Teachers make a darn good salary when one considers their hours and days of work. Actual work. The teacher workdays are a joke.

Parent here. And Arlington is 25% more. It always amazes me that as a culture we justify paying CEOs millions of dollars regardless of what boneheaded decisions they make, and find ways to demean the people in charge of giving our kids an education.
Whatever. You get what you pay for, folks. I'm glad my kids won't be in FCPS for much longer.

Arlington can afford to pay its teachers more than Fairfax because it has fewer students per tax paying adult. Arlington has less than 10% of its population enrolled in public schools. Fairfax has over 16% of its population in public schools. That is why Arlington's property tax rate is always LOWER than Fairfax's and their per pupil school budget is always higher. I have lived in the area for over 20 years and Arlington, DC and Alexandria have always paid significantly more to teachers. The OP left off Loudoun, Stafford and Prince William Counties- which are always lower than Fairfax.

I do think that Fairfax needs to pay its teachers more, the School Board is certainly for it, the BOS is always reluctant to increase taxes- yet they have shifted an increasingly larger % of their budget to the schools significantly over the past 20 years and cannot anymore. There used to ban almost 50/50 split between the schools and everything else in Fairfax county. EVERYTHING else in the county budget has taken larger hits over the years so the the schools can squeak by. For example the libraries suffered a 40% slash. 40%. The State will never change the current formula that it gives schools- a super majority in the House and Senate benefit from the formula. SO, Fairfax will continue to pay thousands for each public school students outside of its boundaries. The Federal contribution to FCPS is minimal.

I think the gap will continue to get worse and the schools will suffer and then, only then, will people stop moving to FCPS for the schools and we will have a more balanced % of public school students as compared to the adult tax paying population. IMO it is the high % of students first and the state taxation and dispersal formula second that makes it nearly impossible for Fairfax to pay its teachers salaries closer to the WDC area schools.

Arlington County also implements an additional food tax which goes towards funding teachers salaries.

Food tax receipts are not going to be enough to overcome the other issues. They would be minimal.

[Anonymous]

Are we comparing apples to apples? What about health benefits?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Montgomery is only 5k more. Whatever. Teachers make a darn good salary when one considers their hours and days of work. Actual work. The teacher workdays are a joke.

Parent here. And Arlington is 25% more. It always amazes me that as a culture we justify paying CEOs millions of dollars regardless of what boneheaded decisions they make, and find ways to demean the people in charge of giving our kids an education.
Whatever. You get what you pay for, folks. I'm glad my kids won't be in FCPS for much longer.

Arlington can afford to pay its teachers more than Fairfax because it has fewer students per tax paying adult. Arlington has less than 10% of its population enrolled in public schools. Fairfax has over 16% of its population in public schools. That is why Arlington's property tax rate is always LOWER than Fairfax's and their per pupil school budget is always higher. I have lived in the area for over 20 years and Arlington, DC and Alexandria have always paid significantly more to teachers. The OP left off Loudoun, Stafford and Prince William Counties- which are always lower than Fairfax.

I do think that Fairfax needs to pay its teachers more, the School Board is certainly for it, the BOS is always reluctant to increase taxes- yet they have shifted an increasingly larger % of their budget to the schools significantly over the past 20 years and cannot anymore. There used to ban almost 50/50 split between the schools and everything else in Fairfax county. EVERYTHING else in the county budget has taken larger hits over the years so the the schools can squeak by. For example the libraries suffered a 40% slash. 40%. The State will never change the current formula that it gives schools- a super majority in the House and Senate benefit from the formula. SO, Fairfax will continue to pay thousands for each public school students outside of its boundaries. The Federal contribution to FCPS is minimal.

I think the gap will continue to get worse and the schools will suffer and then, only then, will people stop moving to FCPS for the schools and we will have a more balanced % of public school students as compared to the adult tax paying population. IMO it is the high % of students first and the state taxation and dispersal formula second that makes it nearly impossible for Fairfax to pay its teachers salaries closer to the WDC area schools.

Arlington County also implements an additional food tax which goes towards funding teachers salaries.

Food tax receipts are not going to be enough to overcome the other issues. They would be minimal.

How does the state justify spending so little in Fairfax when Fairfax is receiving so many immigrants compared to other parts of the state. If other parts of the state are doing poorly even with extra support year after year, are there any repercussions? If other counties get more money and have less immigrants, shouldn't they be doing better than Fairfax?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

How does the state justify spending so little in Fairfax when Fairfax is receiving so many immigrants compared to other parts of the state. If other parts of the state are doing poorly even with extra support year after year, are there any repercussions? If other counties get more money and have less immigrants, shouldn't they be doing better than Fairfax?

They don't have to justify anything to Fairfax County (or Northern Virginia). They just take the tax money and keep it down state. The current formula for dispersing state funds for public schools is warped and decades old- so that a super majority wins and as a result they will not make any changes. The current formula punishes the counties at both ends of the economic spectrum - the richest and the poorest. The communities that benefit the most from the current formula are those that ring Richmond and Roanoke. Immigrant issues in pubic schools only affect a few counties and ones that do not have the political power in the House and Senate. The gerrymandering that happens in the state is not just based on Rs and Ds it also tries to take away as much political power it can from the cash cow counties.

I have lived here long enough to think seceding is a viable option- but that has its own issues. My dream is for Fairfax, Arlington, Alexandria, Montgomery, Prince Georges and DC to form the 51st state. That would solve many problems from schools to transportation. It would have a good mix of incomes too. Its population would be larger than 20 or so existing states.

[Anonymous]

All but PG county.