Can we stop referring to households making $200 or 300K a year as "middle class"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:200k and can't afford a house I'd actually want to live in. I consider us solidly middle class.

And I expect you are typical of people who think they're middle class when they are clearly not. It's not enough to own a home, you have to own the perfect home, with at least one more bedroom than you need, a kitchen updated in the last 5 years to your exacting tastes, the right location, the right schools, etc etc etc.

Middle class means you compromise and you do without. Kids share a bedroom. The kitchen is 15 years old or more. The floors are carpeted, and the bathrooms look like your grandmas. And you live with that because you have other financial priorities - and you simply can't afford to renovate.

That is not a life I would choose to live.

I'm guessing in a home where kids are sharing bedrooms and carpet is 15 years old, the parents aren't making an income that involves advanced degrees. So they probably don't have student loans. And maybe mom doesn't work or took a few years off, so they weren't dropping 2-3k/month sending two kids to daycare. In a way, their income may go further than another more affluent dual income family.

I think the problem in the DC area is that there are so many well educated people who didn't work as hard as they did to live the lifestyle you described. And I don't think it's fair to claim these people are out of touch for wanting a decently nice house with good schools within 30 min.

And FWIW, I keep seeing Silver Spring thrown out as a great middle class area for Maryland. There really isn't an equivalent for those of us in NoVa. The typically middle class suburb people name is Burke, which is outside the beltway. Those of us with a bit more money can afford Fairfax, Oakton, or Vienna. Everything closer-in Virginia is getting out of reach. Even S. Arlington is starting to get really expensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

And FWIW, I keep seeing Silver Spring thrown out as a great middle class area for Maryland. There really isn't an equivalent for those of us in NoVa. The typically middle class suburb people name is Burke, which is outside the beltway. Those of us with a bit more money can afford Fairfax, Oakton, or Vienna. Everything closer-in Virginia is getting out of reach. Even S. Arlington is starting to get really expensive.

So move to MD.

[Anonymous]

Seriously! MOVE! I do not understand the complete resistance to relocating for a better lifestyle,

And 12:12, no one is saying you are out of touch for wanting more. What is out of touch is thinking that you are middle class when you have a million more options that someone who truly is middle class.

[Anonymous]

Serious question: Why do you insist you are middle class when you know you are not? I thought you worked hard for what you have, so why deny it? It's like having a PhD but only admitting to a high school. It makes no sense.

Are you ashamed of your wealth?

[Anonymous]

What about Alexandria?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Serious question: Why do you insist you are middle class when you know you are not? I thought you worked hard for what you have, so why deny it? It's like having a PhD but only admitting to a high school. It makes no sense.

Are you ashamed of your wealth?

Spoken like someone without firsthand knowledge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What about Alexandria?

Super expensive, poor middle schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I'm guessing in a home where kids are sharing bedrooms and carpet is 15 years old, the parents aren't making an income that involves advanced degrees. So they probably don't have student loans. And maybe mom doesn't work or took a few years off, so they weren't dropping 2-3k/month sending two kids to daycare. In a way, their income may go further than another more affluent dual income family.

I think the problem in the DC area is that there are so many well educated people who didn't work as hard as they did to live the lifestyle you described. And I don't think it's fair to claim these people are out of touch for wanting a decently nice house with good schools within 30 min.

Just because you have extra debt, whether it's a higher mortgage, student loans or credit card debt, doesn't change your class. You EARN more than 97% of the region and that makes you affluent. Yes, you have less disposable income, but that's because you've spent more on your education or home. No one is saying they are out of touch for wanting any of the luxuries including a decent house with good schools within 30 minutes. The true middle class (those making $75-150K) have those same desires, often have those same debts and have to make more compromises that those making over $200K.

I keep saying that people are deceived by the fact that several hundred thousand households in this area make over $200K and that makes them think that this makes it middle class. There are over a million households that make signficantly less than $200K. Yes there are many more families making over $200K than there used to be, but that's because the region's population is significantly higher than it used to be. Many of those million households also have student loans (there are many people who went to state schools at in-state rates that still have student loans to pay). Additionally, people are measuring the middle class based on some outdated models from when we were growing up. The truth is that the lower classes from middle class down have less buying power than their peers and parents did from earlier generations. The middle class is getting poorer, not wealthier. Despite the whining from the upper classes, the policies of the last 30+ years have redistributed the wealth so that the upper classes have much more of the nation's wealth than they used to.

And FWIW, I keep seeing Silver Spring thrown out as a great middle class area for Maryland. There really isn't an equivalent for those of us in NoVa. The typically middle class suburb people name is Burke, which is outside the beltway. Those of us with a bit more money can afford Fairfax, Oakton, or Vienna. Everything closer-in Virginia is getting out of reach. Even S. Arlington is starting to get really expensive.

Just doing a quick check on redfin, the areas of Alexandria immediately outside the beltway from Huntingdon to Franconia have many SFH and TH for under $450K with 2+ bedrooms. There's even a small handful inside the beltway. That's a very affordable amount for a middle class family to live that is relatively close in, has easy metro access to downtown for a decent commute and easy access to amenities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is an amazingly stupid article. "For the love of all that is good...?" Right there you know you are reading an idiot. Standard table show that the middle class varies form place to place b/c of cost of living. How hard is that to understand? When every home in the neighborhood cost north of $1M ( many neighbors in the DC area) for a simple 4 bdrm older home, the cost of college is $40K +, insurance for self employed workers is sky high, cars cost plenty also, daycare (shocking high to me), self pay retirement there goes that $200K into simple expenses. And if your job depends on working for a company based in DC -- you are stuck here. So whatever -- if you lived in some rural flyover state, you would be rich, but where's the job?

Private college, other than the small number of need blind/full need schools, is absolutely a luxury reserved for people who fall into one of 3 categories. 1) Wealthy, 2) Kids who earn substantial scholarships, 3) Families willing to make major sacrifices, whether that's unhealthy amounts of debt or living far below their means (e.g. no car, small apartment) to save.

College -- $40K = 2 kids. Even state college is 20K

Well yes, but who walks around doubling the price of things because they have 2 kids and expecting people to intuit that.

I don't say "Hamburgers at McDonalds are so expensive, they cost $8" and expect people to conclude that I mean that hamburgers cost $2 and I am buying for my family of 4.

And it's not "even state colleges" Most people in this country go to state college or community college and then state college. That's the middle class thing to do, as is taking out loans and doing work study to pay a portion of the expense.

Family of 4 expenses. If I were only buying for myself, I would be much richer, as would everyone who has kids. Have you checked out how the childfree live lately?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And FWIW, I keep seeing Silver Spring thrown out as a great middle class area for Maryland. There really isn't an equivalent for those of us in NoVa. The typically middle class suburb people name is Burke, which is outside the beltway. Those of us with a bit more money can afford Fairfax, Oakton, or Vienna. Everything closer-in Virginia is getting out of reach. Even S. Arlington is starting to get really expensive.

So move to MD.

I agree but it is still upper middle class, with a few of the wealthy here and there. Having a $1.5M home is not wealthy in those areas -- it is upper middle. You all sound so angry that people are wealthy. There have always been wealthy people -- they are not spoiled, entitled, deluded (or maybe they are) but still an Income of $200K does not make you rich. It just makes you better off than someone who makes $60K.

[Anonymous]

This debate is pointless. The DC bourgeoisie will never understand the irony of complaining about getting by while drinking $4 Starbucks, buying grass-fed organic beef at Whole Foods, taking annual vacations (occasionally overseas), and walking by homeless people without a second thought as to how fortunate they are. So much narcissistic entitlement, and they are blind to their privilege. It's why I left.

[Anonymous]

I keep saying that people are deceived by the fact that several hundred thousand households in this area make over $200K and that makes them think that this makes it middle class. There are over a million households that make signficantly less than $200K. Yes there are many more families making over $200K than there used to be, but that's because the region's population is significantly higher than it used to be. Many of those million households also have student loans (there are many people who went to state schools at in-state rates that still have student loans to pay). Additionally, people are measuring the middle class based on some outdated models from when we were growing up. The truth is that the lower classes from middle class down have less buying power than their peers and parents did from earlier generations. The middle class is getting poorer, not wealthier. Despite the whining from the upper classes, the policies of the last 30+ years have redistributed the wealth so that the upper classes have much more of the nation's wealth than they used to.

Well said. And people who are earning more, but getting less for their money are just deceiving themselves. Basically it now takes two incomes working more than 40 hours each to make what our parents made with one parent working.

[Anonymous]

^^Not to mention bitching about their $40K price tag for private school. I forgot about that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question: Why do you insist you are middle class when you know you are not? I thought you worked hard for what you have, so why deny it? It's like having a PhD but only admitting to a high school. It makes no sense.

Are you ashamed of your wealth?

Spoken like someone without firsthand knowledge.

No, I have a net worth ove $1.5M and HHI over $200K. I know I'm not middle class. You?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And FWIW, I keep seeing Silver Spring thrown out as a great middle class area for Maryland. There really isn't an equivalent for those of us in NoVa. The typically middle class suburb people name is Burke, which is outside the beltway. Those of us with a bit more money can afford Fairfax, Oakton, or Vienna. Everything closer-in Virginia is getting out of reach. Even S. Arlington is starting to get really expensive.

So move to MD.

Job is in NoVa. MD would be a worse commute. I just think there are a lot of DC/MD posters who are not at all familiar with how high the housing costs are in Virginia. I think the fact there are multiple job centers here drives up the competition for homes.