Can we stop referring to households making $200 or 300K a year as "middle class"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, in NW DC it is middle class. That's reality.

You're deluded.

Not really. I'm in a small apt in NW DC, no debt, family of 3 living on $160 and we can't even afford a car. $40k wouldn't hurl us into the upper class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I keep saying that people are deceived by the fact that several hundred thousand households in this area make over $200K and that makes them think that this makes it middle class. There are over a million households that make signficantly less than $200K. Yes there are many more families making over $200K than there used to be, but that's because the region's population is significantly higher than it used to be. Many of those million households also have student loans (there are many people who went to state schools at in-state rates that still have student loans to pay). Additionally, people are measuring the middle class based on some outdated models from when we were growing up. The truth is that the lower classes from middle class down have less buying power than their peers and parents did from earlier generations. The middle class is getting poorer, not wealthier. Despite the whining from the upper classes, the policies of the last 30+ years have redistributed the wealth so that the upper classes have much more of the nation's wealth than they used to.

Well said. And people who are earning more, but getting less for their money are just deceiving themselves. Basically it now takes two incomes working more than 40 hours each to make what our parents made with one parent working.

I think this is the heart of the problem. Everyone from lower to upper middle class is getting less for their money. Only the truly wealthy are doing better than previous generations. The quibble over how to define middle vs upper middle misses the point. The point is that people who are comparing their childhood to how they live now are realizing that in general it is harder for all classes to replicate the lifestyle they grew up with. Which is disheartening because each generation is supposed to continue to do better than the last. I was the first in my family to graduate college (and then attend grad school) and feel the upper middle class lifestyle my parents were able to provide on one income is harder to attain than it was back in the 80s/90s.

A family of 4 can qualify for affordable housing slots on 80k/year around here. To me, you are lower middle class if you are qualifying for affordable housing. It doesn't matter whether 150k or 250k is the exact mark of middle vs upper middle. The problem is that climbing the SES ladder is much more difficult than it used to be and our middle class as a whole is not doing as well as it used to be.

[Anonymous]

To those making $200K+ and claiming to be solidly middle class: Does this mean you think 90% of the area is below middle class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To those making $200K+ and claiming to be solidly middle class: Does this mean you think 90% of the area is below middle class?

No, I think middle class means people who don't live paycheck to paycheck (that is working class), but who need to work to afford their homes, child care, health care, etc. And who need to save for the future (education, retirement) but have enough money to be putting some aside. That could be a pretty wide range of income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, in NW DC it is middle class. That's reality.

You're deluded.

Not really. I'm in a small apt in NW DC, no debt, family of 3 living on $160 and we can't even afford a car. $40k wouldn't hurl us into the upper class.

I call bullshit. I owned a home and a car with a family of three in NW DC making about $140K. AND we had student loan debt. AND we have fully funded 401Ks. AND we took a vacation every year. Get a financial advisor...you obviously can't manage money.

[Anonymous]

I would consider myself pretty middle class for this area. I make about $95K, although that varies a little depending on how much overtime I get. I'm a single parent, with 1 child with special needs.

On that salary, I'm able to afford the necessities, without scrounging for money. I pay rent on a 2 bedroom apartment, buy groceries that are healthy and varied although with a lot of things like eggs, and rice and beans to stretch the budget. We have warm clothing, and the electric bill gets paid every month. My daughter and I both have pay as you go phones. I take the bus and subway. We have health insurance.

If those things were all we had, then I'd consider us working class. If we were living doubled up with relatives because we couldn't pay rent, or if the lights got turned off on a regular basis, or if I was walking the 3 miles to work at the end of the month when the checks ran out, or if we were going to bed hungry or didn't have health insurance, and it wasn't due to financial mismanagement then I'd consider us poor.

But because I make a solid income, I have money left over for "extras". Not every extra I want, but I can pick and choose somethings that fit with my priorities. Right now, my priority is my daughter, and addressing her needs. Because of that, I pay a few extra hundred a month to be in a school district that I think is a good match, and that is close to work so I have more time for her. I pay about $300 in Dr.'s bills, $300 for prescriptions not covered by insurance, $600 for therapy, and $800 for academic supports (tutoring and the like). I also put her in some extracurriculars and camps that I think are good for developing her skills, and probably pay a few thousand a year for that. Let's say I pay $2,500 a month for those things.

I could, of course, make different choices, and if I didn't have a SN child I almost certainly would. I could put a portion of that $2,500 towards a mortgage and buy a townhouse or a larger condo with amenities like a second bathroom or a washer/dryer, in a less expensive area. I could buy a car and pay insurance. I could put more money towards retirement or a well funded college fund. Plenty of middle class families choose to do those things with their disposable income. What I couldn't do is have all those things, and the things I have now (therapies, expensive extracurriculars, walkable high cost of living close in neighborhood), and still be middle class. To me, that would be pushing me into upper middle class, or out of the middle class altogether.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would consider myself pretty middle class for this area. I make about $95K, although that varies a little depending on how much overtime I get. I'm a single parent, with 1 child with special needs.

On that salary, I'm able to afford the necessities, without scrounging for money. I pay rent on a 2 bedroom apartment, buy groceries that are healthy and varied although with a lot of things like eggs, and rice and beans to stretch the budget. We have warm clothing, and the electric bill gets paid every month. My daughter and I both have pay as you go phones. I take the bus and subway. We have health insurance.

If those things were all we had, then I'd consider us working class. If we were living doubled up with relatives because we couldn't pay rent, or if the lights got turned off on a regular basis, or if I was walking the 3 miles to work at the end of the month when the checks ran out, or if we were going to bed hungry or didn't have health insurance, and it wasn't due to financial mismanagement then I'd consider us poor.

But because I make a solid income, I have money left over for "extras". Not every extra I want, but I can pick and choose somethings that fit with my priorities. Right now, my priority is my daughter, and addressing her needs. Because of that, I pay a few extra hundred a month to be in a school district that I think is a good match, and that is close to work so I have more time for her. I pay about $300 in Dr.'s bills, $300 for prescriptions not covered by insurance, $600 for therapy, and $800 for academic supports (tutoring and the like). I also put her in some extracurriculars and camps that I think are good for developing her skills, and probably pay a few thousand a year for that. Let's say I pay $2,500 a month for those things.

I could, of course, make different choices, and if I didn't have a SN child I almost certainly would. I could put a portion of that $2,500 towards a mortgage and buy a townhouse or a larger condo with amenities like a second bathroom or a washer/dryer, in a less expensive area. I could buy a car and pay insurance. I could put more money towards retirement or a well funded college fund. Plenty of middle class families choose to do those things with their disposable income. What I couldn't do is have all those things, and the things I have now (therapies, expensive extracurriculars, walkable high cost of living close in neighborhood), and still be middle class. To me, that would be pushing me into upper middle class, or out of the middle class altogether.

^ An actual middle class person. Thanks for posting.

[Anonymous]

Not really. I'm in a small apt in NW DC, no debt, family of 3 living on $160 and we can't even afford a car. $40k wouldn't hurl us into the upper class.


I call bullshit. I owned a home and a car with a family of three in NW DC making about $140K. AND we had student loan debt. AND we have fully funded 401Ks. AND we took a vacation every year. Get a financial advisor...you obviously can't manage money.

I don't get this either. A used, older but functional car (like, a Honda Civic) plus insurance is not really all that expensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, in NW DC it is middle class. That's reality.

You're deluded.

Not really. I'm in a small apt in NW DC, no debt, family of 3 living on $160 and we can't even afford a car. $40k wouldn't hurl us into the upper class.

I call bullshit. I owned a home and a car with a family of three in NW DC making about $140K. AND we had student loan debt. AND we have fully funded 401Ks. AND we took a vacation every year. Get a financial advisor...you obviously can't manage money.

NP here, you either had no childcare costs or did this in 1995.

[Anonymous]

Yesterday I visited a client at their home. A mom and 3 kids. They had a loaf of bread and a can of soup left to eat. They had no toilet paper and were using napkins. This argument is silly. Appreciate what you have....if you are on dcum, guaranteed the vast majority have less than you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, in NW DC it is middle class. That's reality.

You're deluded.

Not really. I'm in a small apt in NW DC, no debt, family of 3 living on $160 and we can't even afford a car. $40k wouldn't hurl us into the upper class.

I call bullshit. I owned a home and a car with a family of three in NW DC making about $140K. AND we had student loan debt. AND we have fully funded 401Ks. AND we took a vacation every year. Get a financial advisor...you obviously can't manage money.

NP here, you either had no childcare costs or did this in 1995.

Another NP. When was this, $140K poster?

[Anonymous]

my HHI is about $500K. I consider myself on the upper end of middle class, but certainly nowhere close to upper class. I drive 10+ year old cars, agonize over repair bills, give my wife a hard time for ordering a $6.00 home video rental tonight, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:my HHI is about $500K. I consider myself on the upper end of middle class, but certainly nowhere close to upper class. I drive 10+ year old cars, agonize over repair bills, give my wife a hard time for ordering a $6.00 home video rental tonight, etc.

I seriously pity you. Your extreme frugality is pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apparently you lose common sense for every 50k increase. 200k is not middle class in any US neighborhood.

Neighborhoods are of varying socioeconomic levels. By this logic, someone making $250K is "rich" in Silver Spring but "humble middle class" in CC.

We make 290 k in Silver Spring. In some ways we feel rich, especially bc we see so many people who have so much less. But we still can't afford fancy cars or vacations. We also don't think we can afford a fancier neighborhood. We think we are upper middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would consider myself pretty middle class for this area. I make about $95K, although that varies a little depending on how much overtime I get. I'm a single parent, with 1 child with special needs.

On that salary, I'm able to afford the necessities, without scrounging for money. I pay rent on a 2 bedroom apartment, buy groceries that are healthy and varied although with a lot of things like eggs, and rice and beans to stretch the budget. We have warm clothing, and the electric bill gets paid every month. My daughter and I both have pay as you go phones. I take the bus and subway. We have health insurance.

If those things were all we had, then I'd consider us working class. If we were living doubled up with relatives because we couldn't pay rent, or if the lights got turned off on a regular basis, or if I was walking the 3 miles to work at the end of the month when the checks ran out, or if we were going to bed hungry or didn't have health insurance, and it wasn't due to financial mismanagement then I'd consider us poor.

But because I make a solid income, I have money left over for "extras". Not every extra I want, but I can pick and choose somethings that fit with my priorities. Right now, my priority is my daughter, and addressing her needs. Because of that, I pay a few extra hundred a month to be in a school district that I think is a good match, and that is close to work so I have more time for her. I pay about $300 in Dr.'s bills, $300 for prescriptions not covered by insurance, $600 for therapy, and $800 for academic supports (tutoring and the like). I also put her in some extracurriculars and camps that I think are good for developing her skills, and probably pay a few thousand a year for that. Let's say I pay $2,500 a month for those things.

I could, of course, make different choices, and if I didn't have a SN child I almost certainly would. I could put a portion of that $2,500 towards a mortgage and buy a townhouse or a larger condo with amenities like a second bathroom or a washer/dryer, in a less expensive area. I could buy a car and pay insurance. I could put more money towards retirement or a well funded college fund. Plenty of middle class families choose to do those things with their disposable income. What I couldn't do is have all those things, and the things I have now (therapies, expensive extracurriculars, walkable high cost of living close in neighborhood), and still be middle class. To me, that would be pushing me into upper middle class, or out of the middle class altogether.

Upper middle class, and a class act. Good mom