Can we stop referring to households making $200 or 300K a year as "middle class"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, in NW DC it is middle class. That's reality.

You're deluded.

I think she's right. I don't know anyone here who doesn't make at least $200k.

Then that's an indication that you live in an affluent bubble. This area is so segregated by income that it's easy for people to work with, socialize with, and send their kids to school with people who live the same lifestyle that they do and come away with the impression that this way is the average way, when in fact they are far above average in income or lifestyle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So is $500,000 a year "middle class" if you live on Park Avenue in Manhattan?

just barely making it for Park Ave

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That is an amazingly stupid article. "For the love of all that is good...?" Right there you know you are reading an idiot. Standard table show that the middle class varies form place to place b/c of cost of living. How hard is that to understand? When every home in the neighborhood cost north of $1M ( many neighbors in the DC area) for a simple 4 bdrm older home, the cost of college is $40K +, insurance for self employed workers is sky high, cars cost plenty also, daycare (shocking high to me), self pay retirement there goes that $200K into simple expenses. And if your job depends on working for a company based in DC -- you are stuck here. So whatever -- if you lived in some rural flyover state, you would be rich, but where's the job?

Private college, other than the small number of need blind/full need schools, is absolutely a luxury reserved for people who fall into one of 3 categories. 1) Wealthy, 2) Kids who earn substantial scholarships, 3) Families willing to make major sacrifices, whether that's unhealthy amounts of debt or living far below their means (e.g. no car, small apartment) to save.

[Anonymous]

Read "The Two Income Trap" by Elizabeth Warren. When women entered the workforce in huge numbers it drove the cost of everything up. It takes two solid incomes now to afford the new luxuries which are a house, good schools, 2 cars, college, and retirement. Everybody wants the same things so it costs a lot just to be able to have the life the middle class enjoyed decades ago. The people that are hurting the most are single moms with lower paying jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is an amazingly stupid article. "For the love of all that is good...?" Right there you know you are reading an idiot. Standard table show that the middle class varies form place to place b/c of cost of living. How hard is that to understand? When every home in the neighborhood cost north of $1M ( many neighbors in the DC area) for a simple 4 bdrm older home, the cost of college is $40K +, insurance for self employed workers is sky high, cars cost plenty also, daycare (shocking high to me), self pay retirement there goes that $200K into simple expenses. And if your job depends on working for a company based in DC -- you are stuck here. So whatever -- if you lived in some rural flyover state, you would be rich, but where's the job?

Private college, other than the small number of need blind/full need schools, is absolutely a luxury reserved for people who fall into one of 3 categories. 1) Wealthy, 2) Kids who earn substantial scholarships, 3) Families willing to make major sacrifices, whether that's unhealthy amounts of debt or living far below their means (e.g. no car, small apartment) to save.

College -- $40K = 2 kids. Even state college is 20K

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, in NW DC it is middle class. That's reality.

You're deluded.

I think she's right. I don't know anyone here who doesn't make at least $200k.

Then that's an indication that you live in an affluent bubble. This area is so segregated by income that it's easy for people to work with, socialize with, and send their kids to school with people who live the same lifestyle that they do and come away with the impression that this way is the average way, when in fact they are far above average in income or lifestyle.

+1 perspective

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is an amazingly stupid article. "For the love of all that is good...?" Right there you know you are reading an idiot. Standard table show that the middle class varies form place to place b/c of cost of living. How hard is that to understand? When every home in the neighborhood cost north of $1M ( many neighbors in the DC area) for a simple 4 bdrm older home, the cost of college is $40K +, insurance for self employed workers is sky high, cars cost plenty also, daycare (shocking high to me), self pay retirement there goes that $200K into simple expenses. And if your job depends on working for a company based in DC -- you are stuck here. So whatever -- if you lived in some rural flyover state, you would be rich, but where's the job?

Private college, other than the small number of need blind/full need schools, is absolutely a luxury reserved for people who fall into one of 3 categories. 1) Wealthy, 2) Kids who earn substantial scholarships, 3) Families willing to make major sacrifices, whether that's unhealthy amounts of debt or living far below their means (e.g. no car, small apartment) to save.

College -- $40K = 2 kids. Even state college is 20K

Well yes, but who walks around doubling the price of things because they have 2 kids and expecting people to intuit that.

I don't say "Hamburgers at McDonalds are so expensive, they cost $8" and expect people to conclude that I mean that hamburgers cost $2 and I am buying for my family of 4.

And it's not "even state colleges" Most people in this country go to state college or community college and then state college. That's the middle class thing to do, as is taking out loans and doing work study to pay a portion of the expense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the choice argument only works if these families could move to lower cost of living areas and still make that much. That usually isn't the case.

This.

I feel so sorry for those people who have no choice but to live in Chevy Chase or Great Falls. Must be tough.

Seriously.

[Anonymous]

I need to stop reading these threads because they just piss me off. People in this area need a serious reality check.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:200k and can't afford a house I'd actually want to live in. I consider us solidly middle class.

And you are deluded. Just because you have expensive tastes does not mean that you don't make more than 95% of the region and 98% of the nation.

There are many, many single family houses that you can easily afford on your income and live a true middle class lifestyle. You want to have a house in a good schools district (premium) in a close-in (premium), walk-able (premium) neighborhood with good transit options (premium). The true middle class doesn't get to choose the nice house in best school district with easy commutes to work and metro in vibrant exciting neighborhoods. Middle class compromise, not just once, but often. They prioritize the things that are most important and get the most that they can afford.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:200k and can't afford a house I'd actually want to live in. I consider us solidly middle class.

I'd consider you to have expensive taste.

I guess so but 600k doesn't get you far even if you have cheap taste.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:200k and can't afford a house I'd actually want to live in. I consider us solidly middle class.

I'd consider you to have expensive taste.

I guess so but 600k doesn't get you far even if you have cheap taste.

Sure it does. But you have to compromise. You get either a smaller house, a house in a worse school district, a house farther away or a house that is less convenient to other amenities. 600K doesn't get you much when you're spoiled or entitled. The problem here is that the top 3% of 200K is now such a large group of people in this area (a couple of hundred thousand). So many people see those with higher incomes being able to afford what they want and they forget that there are over a million households that have less and make compromises that they think they are in the middle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:200k and can't afford a house I'd actually want to live in. I consider us solidly middle class.

And I expect you are typical of people who think they're middle class when they are clearly not. It's not enough to own a home, you have to own the perfect home, with at least one more bedroom than you need, a kitchen updated in the last 5 years to your exacting tastes, the right location, the right schools, etc etc etc.

Middle class means you compromise and you do without. Kids share a bedroom. The kitchen is 15 years old or more. The floors are carpeted, and the bathrooms look like your grandmas. And you live with that because you have other financial priorities - and you simply can't afford to renovate.

That is not a life I would choose to live.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:200k and can't afford a house I'd actually want to live in. I consider us solidly middle class.

And I expect you are typical of people who think they're middle class when they are clearly not. It's not enough to own a home, you have to own the perfect home, with at least one more bedroom than you need, a kitchen updated in the last 5 years to your exacting tastes, the right location, the right schools, etc etc etc.

Middle class means you compromise and you do without. Kids share a bedroom. The kitchen is 15 years old or more. The floors are carpeted, and the bathrooms look like your grandmas. And you live with that because you have other financial priorities - and you simply can't afford to renovate.

That is not a life I would choose to live.

That's fine. If you have the means you can choose to live a wealthy lifestyle.

[Anonymous]

Another thing I'd like to point out is that age matters. If you are 28 and looking to buy a first home you will probably be somewhat limited in what you can afford, even if you and your spouse have a generous HHI (say, 200k). If you buy something for $600k now and save for a few years you will likely have some equity and more assets and should be able to afford a $900k home on the same HHI. Part of this complaining is by millenials who don't appreciate how building wealth works.