MCPS policy on not returning quizzes, tests and exams to students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks PP. That's helpful. But it is so maddening that I should have to spend several hours of my time to see a regular test. I had to do this for math and English tests last year. I also have a struggling student. And that is the teacher's after school time. It's ridiculous and the student gets nothing out of it. I'd like my child to rework the exact problems he missed. Instead I have to note the type of problem and then make up a similar one. Truly ridiculous.

I agree. The policy is horrible. My daughter says they spend one class period max (usually a half period) going over tests the day they are returned and if kids did really bad they clam up and don't ask questions because of embarrassment in front of others anyway. Then they hand them back in and move on to the next unit. Never looking back again.

[Anonymous]

Yep. My son with a math LD did poorly in math last year, usually getting C's, maybe even getting a D. Come to think of it, I think he failed one formative. The teacher never informed me, never got in touch. The failed one was right before xmas so between that and the length of time it takes to grade these things I didn't even see the grade--on Edline of course-- till 3-4 weeks after he took it. Nobody worked with him to re-teach, and by the time I found out about the grade they had moved on to a new unit.

And to the PP's comment, how is a kid who misses more than a couple problems supposed to learn from their mistakes in 30 minutes of going over the test in class. This approach is unacceptable. It is not teaching. Even in college you get your tests back to process them.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Are you talking about class tests or standards assessment tests? Class tests policy is probably teacher specific. For standards, I think most are supposed to be mailed to the parents. I've certainly received several of DC's test scores in the mail.

Just scores? Not actual tests?

A lot of the assessment tests are taken online, and no you don't get them back. I don't ever remember getting my SAT tests back, only the test scores.

True, you don't get your SAT tests back, but that was the FIRST test I didn't get back in my entire education. So I don't think that proves that this is normal.

The students get their tests back, as far as I know. It's just that the parents don't get the students' tests back, and the students don't take the tests home.

Wrong. Why are here posting nonsense? The problem is that teachers and schools are not returning graded subject tests. So zero real feedback, learning or improving or reinforcing, and lazy responses to families that ask for it.

The teachers and school are returning graded subject tests to my middle-school student. My student sees them. I don't see them, but my student sees them.

Yes, but they don't go over the individual mistakes your kid made.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Are you talking about class tests or standards assessment tests? Class tests policy is probably teacher specific. For standards, I think most are supposed to be mailed to the parents. I've certainly received several of DC's test scores in the mail.

Just scores? Not actual tests?

A lot of the assessment tests are taken online, and no you don't get them back. I don't ever remember getting my SAT tests back, only the test scores.

True, you don't get your SAT tests back, but that was the FIRST test I didn't get back in my entire education. So I don't think that proves that this is normal.

Exactly. Me too. The SAT doesn't give your the answers because it is a national test taken over and over again by many kids at different times of the year. MCPS uses that same policy because they are too lazy to change the test around every year.

This is not exactly true.

Some administrations of the SAT are returned to you if you register for that service. For example, this October is a test administration that will be released. Kids who take the Oct. exam can pay extra to have the test returned with their scores.

MCPS does not return exams because they are cheap -- it takes more money to develop multiple versions of exams with different questions so the administered exam can be released. Of course, MCPS should do this, and it would help the students.

Well, MCPS prefers to spend money on fancy overhead projectors and BoE expenses.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Are you talking about class tests or standards assessment tests? Class tests policy is probably teacher specific. For standards, I think most are supposed to be mailed to the parents. I've certainly received several of DC's test scores in the mail.

Just scores? Not actual tests?

A lot of the assessment tests are taken online, and no you don't get them back. I don't ever remember getting my SAT tests back, only the test scores.

True, you don't get your SAT tests back, but that was the FIRST test I didn't get back in my entire education. So I don't think that proves that this is normal.

Exactly. Me too. The SAT doesn't give your the answers because it is a national test taken over and over again by many kids at different times of the year. MCPS uses that same policy because they are too lazy to change the test around every year.

This is not exactly true.

Some administrations of the SAT are returned to you if you register for that service. For example, this October is a test administration that will be released. Kids who take the Oct. exam can pay extra to have the test returned with their scores.

MCPS does not return exams because they are cheap -- it takes more money to develop multiple versions of exams with different questions so the administered exam can be released. Of course, MCPS should do this, and it would help the students.

Oh, but it's much more important that they all have Ipads in elementary school. Idiots.

good point. I only have a 1st grader and I wasn't aware of this policy. I am actually embarrassed that so many people here seem okay and even defend it. I always received all my tests home and had to show parents (I vividly remember my Dad sitting down with me to go over the questions I got wrong) then they would sign and return them. I don't understand how going over what an individual is doing wrong and fixing it, is not what everyone would want. What if my child gets an 80 on ever math test and the same type of questions she is getting wrong each test. Unless I contact the teacher, physically go in on my time and see every test to come to this conclusion, I would never know, correct? She would get by never knowing or understand that subject matter. I bet 99% of the parents don't even go in to see tests unless they fail. This is really sad. I can not believe this is policy.

My husband and I went in to see our DC's final English assessment. It was eye-opening. The questions were poorly written. The entire test read as if it was written by committee. We totally understood why our son made the mistakes he did, but he never had the benefit of having the teacher explain how to correct his work. We are now paying $30,000+ for the privilege of having a teacher who actually helps him learn from his mistakes.

[Anonymous]

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PP is saying (*about MCPS not returning tests home):

1. I have experience with it.
2. It's not a huge problem.
3. This is how to deal with it.

And my response is

1. I have experience with it.
2. I find it to be a major (perhaps not huge) problem
3. The proposed "solution" is a poor substitute for simply returning the test home. I want to see the test while my child still remembers taking it. I want to see the specific question and my child's answer. Is the answer wrong because he misunderstood the question, or because he doesn't understand the concept, or because he made a careless mistake? (Or perhaps the answer is correct but the teacher did not grade it correctly.) My personal experience is that education proceeds by making mistakes, and then understanding *why* it was a mistake.

I would feel a lot better if MCPS would explain why they won't return the test home. (Again, not returning the test seems to be a standard MCPS policy for middle school, but teachers seem to have more leeway in elementary school. I have two children in middle school and one in elementary.) Right now, it seems totally arbitrary to me, like a policy that anybody who wears green on the day of the test will get an F. Do they want to keep the test to make it harder for parent's to question the final grade? Are they worried that copies of the test would be posted online to help kids cheat the following year? These seem like weak justifications but at least the the decision wouldn't be completely arbitrary.

I would like to point out that copies of prior year's tests posted online would actually help kids study by giving them practice. It just costs more money for MCPS to develop a deep enough test question pool to be able to do this in a way that allowed them to create an entirely new test each year.

Again, MCPS is just cheap and lazy. They are doing what is easy for them, not what is best for the students.

Seriously. How many employees do they have? And yet they can't make new tests each year???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like an obnoxious parent asking to see the test for my child who struggles in some subjects, taking the teacher's time, etc. Maybe I'll try just emailing next time and asking what types of problems were incorrect--but that feels like nitpicking, calling the teacher to account. Imagine if all parents did this. And yet not doing it, the child, who put in time studying and comes away not having a clue about why they got the grade they got, gets cheated. Just wait OP till you see the sheer number of quizzes and tests your child will be subjected to each year. MCPS is very pro-testing but it is only for their own purposes, facts, and figures. Not for educating kids.

Bingo.

[Anonymous]

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Oh, that's lame too then. If I made a mistake on something and it was a conceptual error (as opposed to just a dumb mistake), I would need to actually look at it. And maybe ask a question or too. This is basic pedagogy. This is a horrible policy.

They go over the tests in class.

So? They don't go over each individual kid's mistake in class. A general go-over is fine, but not good enough. I need to understand MY conceptual error, not just hear the answer explained again.
My God. I can't believe this is something people are actually defending. Well, then again, there's a whole thread going on about how it's fine to beat your children so they don't end up criminals, so this shouldn't be so surprising.

This really isn't as hard as you all make it sound. Each test/quiz has a study guide. You can go on Edline and print them out. You can go on Edline and get your child's score. If your child didn't do well on a test or a quiz, then you can e-mail the teacher and ask what part of the subject matter your child missed. Then you pull out the study guide and work with your child on that material. This is a discussion that happens every year. The policy isn't going to change. You have to figure out how to work within the system or go elsewhere.

Again, totally school dependent. This was not available to us. We could see grades on Edline, but not study guides and certainly not all assignments. We had a tough time with one teacher in particular who refused to put long term assignments on Edline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not just end of year county assessments. Class tests, quizzes, mid term exams and in-class writing assignments. Its ridiculous.

I've seen it in elementary school for my younger child now too. DD received an ES in one writing section and an I in another writing section on the report card. I have never seen anything other than a P on anything that comes home. When I asked the teacher she said the in class work is different than what is sent home and I could come in to see it. The assignments were very different from anything we had seen. She said it was MCPS policy for graded work to be kept at the school until the grade cards were submitted. I had to make a special request for her to send the writing work home at the end of the year. She normally just throws them in the trash the next year. Oh and she never mentioned any of this at the parent teacher conferences, or back to school night earlier in the year. MCPS sucks.

Must be school or teacher specific. Every Friday we have gotten a folder full of class work, quizzes and homework, all marked so we can tell what was expected -- with a whole range of scores, including I (when something wasn't right, so we can see what can be fixed/improved), up to ES. Is this unusual? It's been like this ever since we started in MCPS, for a couple different elementary schools (home school and HGC). Middle school has been a little different, but not much. We get nearly daily updates on grades through Edline. If a test shows incomplete understanding, our kid gets the test back and can petition to retake it after showing effort to attain better understanding. We have to sign off on everything as parents and participate in getting our child ready for a retake. Not feeling in the dark at all. Frankly, more information and feedback than we can process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not just end of year county assessments. Class tests, quizzes, mid term exams and in-class writing assignments. Its ridiculous.

I've seen it in elementary school for my younger child now too. DD received an ES in one writing section and an I in another writing section on the report card. I have never seen anything other than a P on anything that comes home. When I asked the teacher she said the in class work is different than what is sent home and I could come in to see it. The assignments were very different from anything we had seen. She said it was MCPS policy for graded work to be kept at the school until the grade cards were submitted. I had to make a special request for her to send the writing work home at the end of the year. She normally just throws them in the trash the next year. Oh and she never mentioned any of this at the parent teacher conferences, or back to school night earlier in the year. MCPS sucks.

Must be school or teacher specific. Every Friday we have gotten a folder full of class work, quizzes and homework, all marked so we can tell what was expected -- with a whole range of scores, including I (when something wasn't right, so we can see what can be fixed/improved), up to ES. Is this unusual? It's been like this ever since we started in MCPS, for a couple different elementary schools (home school and HGC). Middle school has been a little different, but not much. We get nearly daily updates on grades through Edline. If a test shows incomplete understanding, our kid gets the test back and can petition to retake it after showing effort to attain better understanding. We have to sign off on everything as parents and participate in getting our child ready for a retake. Not feeling in the dark at all. Frankly, more information and feedback than we can process.

That's great! Since you're happy with your school, can you please say which school(s)? I might want to move...

[Anonymous]

"If a test shows incomplete understanding, our kid gets the test back and can petition to retake it after showing effort to attain better understanding. We have to sign off on everything as parents and participate in getting our child ready for a retake."

Your child gets her county formatives back to take home and can re-take?? Or do you just mean minor quizzes?
I think most kids get the smaller things back. It is the standardized assessments that are not given out...and no retakes either.

[Anonymous]

I don't know what proportion of tests, like math tests, are county-wide vs. teacher written but I would say the majority are county-wide and those are never allowed home. Another complaint about them that I have is that there is not enough room to write/work out the answers. I discovered this on a visit to the school to see a graded test. Even in college (I was a math major) there is always ample room provided to work out the answers. Quizzes are always returned because they are written by the teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know what proportion of tests, like math tests, are county-wide vs. teacher written but I would say the majority are county-wide and those are never allowed home. Another complaint about them that I have is that there is not enough room to write/work out the answers. I discovered this on a visit to the school to see a graded test. Even in college (I was a math major) there is always ample room provided to work out the answers. Quizzes are always returned because they are written by the teacher.

Can you ask for spare scrap paper? I remember a lot of math tests (including competitions) where we had scrap paper to work things out. Of course, if you have to throw out the scrap paper, then it may be hard to figure out where you went wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"If a test shows incomplete understanding, our kid gets the test back and can petition to retake it after showing effort to attain better understanding. We have to sign off on everything as parents and participate in getting our child ready for a retake."

Your child gets her county formatives back to take home and can re-take?? Or do you just mean minor quizzes?
I think most kids get the smaller things back. It is the standardized assessments that are not given out...and no retakes either.

The PP is not right. You can not retake tests and you certainly don't get them to bring home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"If a test shows incomplete understanding, our kid gets the test back and can petition to retake it after showing effort to attain better understanding. We have to sign off on everything as parents and participate in getting our child ready for a retake."

Your child gets her county formatives back to take home and can re-take?? Or do you just mean minor quizzes?
I think most kids get the smaller things back. It is the standardized assessments that are not given out...and no retakes either.

The PP is not right. You can not retake tests and you certainly don't get them to bring home.

PP here. Only certain tests can be retaken...not the county level ones, of which there are far fewer. I was responding to the assertion that quizzes, HW, and class work were never returned and no useful feedback was ever provided. I'm not talking about standardized tests. We get everything else back. FWIW, our kids go to W-cluster schools.