Is Dark Matter Where the Seven Heavens Lie?

[Anonymous]

sorry opposed = proposed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This line about the thread not being about the existence of heaven but just its location is like saying that "I have never beaten my wife" is not relevant to the question "When did you stop beating your wife?"

Oh c'mon, your answer is a complete cop-out and you know it.

OK, I'll answer for you. Some atheists are here because they're interested in the intersection between faith and science. Other atheists are here to harass believers because... harassing believers is fun!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This line about the thread not being about the existence of heaven but just its location is like saying that "I have never beaten my wife" is not relevant to the question "When did you stop beating your wife?"

Oh c'mon, your answer is a complete cop-out and you know it.

OK, I'll answer for you. Some atheists are here because they're interested in the intersection between faith and science. Other atheists are here to harass believers because... harassing believers is fun!

You may think it's a cop-out, but I certainly don't know, or even believe, that it is. I can't see how you can talk about the location of heaven without talking about the existence and nature of heaven. The very idea that it has a location in the physical universe strikes me as a throwback to the days when dying people were weighed to find out how much the soul weighs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm an atheist - and I clicked on this link because I'm quite interested in how science might intersect, or have an effect on faith. I think what people experience in faith - in "knowing their God" is a very real thing, and I like questions like the one opposed, because I think there is a diamond buried in religion, the experience of having faith itself, that is a function of the brain. Science hasn't yet been able to explain that - but I hope one day will.

If you have some free time (1 hour), this is a very interesting lecture about the how atheism, religion, and science all intersect. You really to have to watch the whole thing though, because the topics converge at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KrJvpD0nNM

[Anonymous]

typo ^^do^^

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an atheist - and I clicked on this link because I'm quite interested in how science might intersect, or have an effect on faith. I think what people experience in faith - in "knowing their God" is a very real thing, and I like questions like the one opposed, because I think there is a diamond buried in religion, the experience of having faith itself, that is a function of the brain. Science hasn't yet been able to explain that - but I hope one day will.

If you have some free time (1 hour), this is a very interesting lecture about the how atheism, religion, and science all intersect. You really to have to watch the whole thing though, because the topics converge at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KrJvpD0nNM

And here is the first comment on that video:

Save yourself one hour.
his whole speech can be summarized as follows:
modern science hasn't yet explained everything completely.

the rest is mostly bullshit a la deepak chopra.?

[Anonymous]

I am the OP so I would like to redirect this thread back to its original topic- is dark matter where the seven heavens lie?

I am in awe that science has finally discovered an area that is completely invisible to the naked eye but we now know truly exists. I read somewhere that dark matter takes up 80% of space ( there may be other figures, not sure). I was fascinated that astrophysicists who first detected dark matter were stunned to see a constellation of stars, gases, space debris everywhere but when they saw the space containing dark matter, it was void of anything..a stark contrast to the rest of space.

If its true and the heavens lie there, I wonder also how our souls reach there. It has to be wormholes, as described by people who have had near death experiences.

I'm just in awe of the possibility....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an atheist - and I clicked on this link because I'm quite interested in how science might intersect, or have an effect on faith. I think what people experience in faith - in "knowing their God" is a very real thing, and I like questions like the one opposed, because I think there is a diamond buried in religion, the experience of having faith itself, that is a function of the brain. Science hasn't yet been able to explain that - but I hope one day will.

If you have some free time (1 hour), this is a very interesting lecture about the how atheism, religion, and science all intersect. You really to have to watch the whole thing though, because the topics converge at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KrJvpD0nNM

And here is the first comment on that video:

Save yourself one hour.
his whole speech can be summarized as follows:
modern science hasn't yet explained everything completely.

the rest is mostly bullshit a la deepak chopra.?

Yes, that's someone's comment. There are lots of comments. I was referring to the video itself not the comments section. Do you only read the comments section of online newspapers too? Obviously we all have our own opinions and we're not all going to like the same things.

Anyway, it's there if you want to watch and form your own thoughts. I shared it because it's interesting and seemed relevant to the pp's post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well if you are right that there is no God & no Heaven, believers lose nothing. However, if we are right that there IS a God & Heaven, you'd be in big trouble.

Actually, that's not true. I've thought about this one a lot - it's basically Pascal's wager.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

You might lose the opportunity to pursue happiness during this lifetime. For example, let's say you are gay, but you believe that being gay is a sin according to the religion you think it is safer to follow than not. In that case you might give up your opportunity to have a partner who you truly love, by following your religious dictates.

Here's another, which may seem more trivial. If you think that g_d wants you to go to church every Sunday, then you are giving up what is likely your very small amount of free time in order to satisfy this religious being.

That's just two examples. There are many ways in which believers can lose. I'm not saying you shouldn't be religious - I'm not, but I don't have a problem if you are. I'm saying Pascal's wager doesn't take the downsides of belief, or the opportunity costs, into account.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This line about the thread not being about the existence of heaven but just its location is like saying that "I have never beaten my wife" is not relevant to the question "When did you stop beating your wife?"

Oh c'mon, your answer is a complete cop-out and you know it.

OK, I'll answer for you. Some atheists are here because they're interested in the intersection between faith and science. Other atheists are here to harass believers because... harassing believers is fun!

You may think it's a cop-out, but I certainly don't know, or even believe, that it is. I can't see how you can talk about the location of heaven without talking about the existence and nature of heaven. The very idea that it has a location in the physical universe strikes me as a throwback to the days when dying people were weighed to find out how much the soul weighs.

You already got an answer: believers take it on faith that heaven exists. Atheists don't have the same faith. That much should have been obvious to you already, but somebody took the time to explain it to you.

So now, once again, why are you still here?

[FruminousBandersnatch]

Anonymous wrote:I am the OP so I would like to redirect this thread back to its original topic- is dark matter where the seven heavens lie?

I am in awe that science has finally discovered an area that is completely invisible to the naked eye but we now know truly exists. I read somewhere that dark matter takes up 80% of space ( there may be other figures, not sure). I was fascinated that astrophysicists who first detected dark matter were stunned to see a constellation of stars, gases, space debris everywhere but when they saw the space containing dark matter, it was void of anything..a stark contrast to the rest of space.

If its true and the heavens lie there, I wonder also how our souls reach there. It has to be wormholes, as described by people who have had near death experiences.

I'm just in awe of the possibility....

Science is still working a lot of things related to cosmology out.

There is the possibility our universe exists within a much larger space and new "universes" like ours that are popping into existence all the time - but that are undetectable to us due to the incredible distances involved. Or there is the possibility that our universe is part of a meta-space containing multiple "universes" on separate membranes.

Then there some recent theoretical work that says black holes can't exist due to collapsing stars' production of Hawking radiation in a manner that drops them below the critical mass necessary to form a singularity, after we spent the last 50 years or so convincing ourselves that they do exist and are at the center of galaxies. Whether they exist or not, there are debates about how they would work.

Your comment about wormholes, though, is an attempt to apply science to something that fundamentally unscientific. It's a modern version of asking the question how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. According to Christian theology, a soul is insubstantial and immaterial - it is a non-physical, non-corporeal aspect of our being. To attempt to apply physics to it and require a physical process like a wormhole for this immaterial thing to travel to some other physical place in the universe doesn't make sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This line about the thread not being about the existence of heaven but just its location is like saying that "I have never beaten my wife" is not relevant to the question "When did you stop beating your wife?"

Oh c'mon, your answer is a complete cop-out and you know it.

OK, I'll answer for you. Some atheists are here because they're interested in the intersection between faith and science. Other atheists are here to harass believers because... harassing believers is fun!

You may think it's a cop-out, but I certainly don't know, or even believe, that it is. I can't see how you can talk about the location of heaven without talking about the existence and nature of heaven. The very idea that it has a location in the physical universe strikes me as a throwback to the days when dying people were weighed to find out how much the soul weighs.

You already got an answer: believers take it on faith that heaven exists. Atheists don't have the same faith. That much should have been obvious to you already, but somebody took the time to explain it to you.

So now, once again, why are you still here?

Exactly. Why are the atheists here? Again and again we are subjected to the atheist view. But we want to discuss with people who share our view that heaven does exist, not engage in a debate as to whether it exists. Please let us have our discussion without interfering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This line about the thread not being about the existence of heaven but just its location is like saying that "I have never beaten my wife" is not relevant to the question "When did you stop beating your wife?"

Oh c'mon, your answer is a complete cop-out and you know it.

OK, I'll answer for you. Some atheists are here because they're interested in the intersection between faith and science. Other atheists are here to harass believers because... harassing believers is fun!

You may think it's a cop-out, but I certainly don't know, or even believe, that it is. I can't see how you can talk about the location of heaven without talking about the existence and nature of heaven. The very idea that it has a location in the physical universe strikes me as a throwback to the days when dying people were weighed to find out how much the soul weighs.

You already got an answer: believers take it on faith that heaven exists. Atheists don't have the same faith. That much should have been obvious to you already, but somebody took the time to explain it to you.

So now, once again, why are you still here?

Exactly. Why are the atheists here? Again and again we are subjected to the atheist view. But we want to discuss with people who share our view that heaven does exist, not engage in a debate as to whether it exists. Please let us have our discussion without interfering.

So just ignore the atheist comments. This is an open discussion board - you can't kick someone off because you don't like their opinions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well if you are right that there is no God & no Heaven, believers lose nothing. However, if we are right that there IS a God & Heaven, you'd be in big trouble.

Actually, that's not true. I've thought about this one a lot - it's basically Pascal's wager.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

You might lose the opportunity to pursue happiness during this lifetime. For example, let's say you are gay, but you believe that being gay is a sin according to the religion you think it is safer to follow than not. In that case you might give up your opportunity to have a partner who you truly love, by following your religious dictates.

Here's another, which may seem more trivial. If you think that g_d wants you to go to church every Sunday, then you are giving up what is likely your very small amount of free time in order to satisfy this religious being.

That's just two examples. There are many ways in which believers can lose. I'm not saying you shouldn't be religious - I'm not, but I don't have a problem if you are. I'm saying Pascal's wager doesn't take the downsides of belief, or the opportunity costs, into account.

is it worth 50-60 years of gay sex on earth to give up an eternal life in heaven surrounded by God's love?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an atheist - and I clicked on this link because I'm quite interested in how science might intersect, or have an effect on faith. I think what people experience in faith - in "knowing their God" is a very real thing, and I like questions like the one opposed, because I think there is a diamond buried in religion, the experience of having faith itself, that is a function of the brain. Science hasn't yet been able to explain that - but I hope one day will.

If you have some free time (1 hour), this is a very interesting lecture about the how atheism, religion, and science all intersect. You really to have to watch the whole thing though, because the topics converge at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KrJvpD0nNM

And here is the first comment on that video:

Save yourself one hour.
his whole speech can be summarized as follows:
modern science hasn't yet explained everything completely.

the rest is mostly bullshit a la deepak chopra.?

Yes, that's someone's comment. There are lots of comments. I was referring to the video itself not the comments section. Do you only read the comments section of online newspapers too? Obviously we all have our own opinions and we're not all going to like the same things.

Anyway, it's there if you want to watch and form your own thoughts. I shared it because it's interesting and seemed relevant to the pp's post.

and many of them are negative