Why doesn't DC have a STEM school like TJ?
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Anonymous
IQ is also related to income. Do higher IQs lead to higher salaries? There are actual statistics tied to SAT and IQ scores. Where is your data? IQs have nothing to do with intelligence. They have everything to do with exposure. Even though my mom went to college (with 3 kids) and became a teacher, my dad had a 6th grade education. I had no idea kids were paying for SAT prep. Even if I did, my parents couldn't have afforded for me to take it. I am so sure that had they invested in the prep, I would have done much, much better. To give you an idea, I didn't think 2x to pay for the Catholic school entrance exam prep. $2000 - done. Most kids at Banneker can't afford test prep. They have a very high FARMs rate. I would call the school if interested in colleges and scholarships. I am sure that Ms. Berger and Ms. Hylton would happy to brag. |
Anonymous
You don't make any sense. The kids are poor and poverty matters. Are the kids just as smart as those in privates, absolutely. You can't make up 8 years of a lack of exposure in 4. Start your school if you are so hung up on SAT scores. You are the one getting left behind or wasting your money on privates when it's not necessary. I have friends who went to Bronx Science and Brooklyn Tech. Those schools have resegregated, just as TJ has. You favor scores instead of the whole child. Remember, Asian countries do great in testing, but the US still has a stronger economy. That means being successful is more important than scores. Hell - home school. Your kid can be incredibly bright. I hope to God they go into the sciences b/c otherwise, they will be so damn odd, no one will want to hire them. |
Anonymous
| If you could put all the high performers in a school with a solid qualification, it would make dc more attractive then the lottery mess. I would be for multiple schools with different entrance criteria. |
Anonymous
PP here. The points outlined are scattered and nonsensical as a group. I will respond to each one separately. Even with poverty, given that these kids are DC's best, they should get test scores significantly higher then average. The measure for intelligence compared to TJ and Blair is test scores, and I never said a word about private schools. Charters cannot be started that are also magnet schools thanks to DC laws. I do not see how I am left behind in any way, and I never said anything about private schools. Resegregation is not a word, and electing based on knowledge has nothing to do with race, and implying that selecting by knowledge is selecting by race (which is what segregation legally means) is in itself racist. In academics, test scores (which is how intelligence and retention of material are measured) are much more important then the whole child, which in my humble opinion is just a meaningless buzzword anyway. The "Hell - homeschool." comment makes absolutely zero sense, and I never said anything about home school. Personal attacks on children only serve to diminish your credibility, and are completely irrelevant to magnet schools in DC. |
Anonymous
You are clearly not in education circles b/c you would know that resegregation is a word that is in fact used. Poverty is a MAJOR factor in scores and that is not even up for debate. It has already been proven. When schools only look at scores, the schools RESEGREGATE. They become all white. This has been a debate across the country. In academics, test scores are not more important than the whole child. That is why people are pushing back on so called "reform". If you want to only measure your child by test scores, then so be it. Testing is also about exposure. Long ago, it was proven that the SAT was biased. Many organizations are telling kids to take the ACT because it is a better measure of intelligence. What I do know, is that Banneker is still sending kids to amazing schools. That means that the great colleges are looking at more than test scores. Study up. It's not that hard. Go to the website "Not Waiting for Superman." Read Diane Ravitch. I've attacked home school kids because I said they were odd? Fine. They are odd. You do what you need to do. If your world is defined by your kid only going to a school where the test scores are extremely high, while you miss out on everything else. So be it. But, before you do, do a little research and talk to some education policy professionals first. |
Anonymous
They do not do well on APs at Banneker, based on the college readiness score (25% what is offered, 75% performance), so how well do you think they do in college? I want to see not only acceptances but GRADUATION rates, and so far from all the Banneker supporters (and SWW) we have seen absolutely NOTHING. |
Anonymous
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Anonymous
Different PP here. I hope you don't represent the majority views of education policy decision-makers. Test sores are indeed imperfect, but much better than buzzwords such as "resegregation." |
Anonymous
Every objective measure tells us that the kids in public are not as smart as the kids in private. And if the SAT is biased then the ACT must be as well because the exact same score disparities exist. Bottom line is you can't have a school like TJ in DC because there simply aren't enough kids that can perform at that level for whatever reason. Great colleges are looking for a diverse student body. The Banneker kids take advantage of this. |
Anonymous
Please tell me what "every objective measure" means? I've never heard this. And you must understand that I have one kid in DCPS and one kid in private. Are the kids in private more exposed, probably. Are they actually smarter? No. Actually, the same disparities don't exist for the SAT and the ACT. I found this article about the SAT on Inside Higher Ed, " New Evidence of Racial Bias on SAT June 21, 2010 By Scott Jaschik A new study may revive arguments that the average test scores of black students trail those of white students not just because of economic disadvantages, but because some parts of the test result in differential scores by race for students of equal academic prowess. The finding -- already being questioned by the College Board -- could be extremely significant as many colleges that continue to rely on the SAT may be less comfortable doing so amid allegations that it is biased against black test-takers. "The confirmation of unfair test results throws into question the validity of the test and, consequently, all decisions based on its results. All admissions decisions based exclusively or predominantly on SAT performance -- and therefore access to higher education institutions and subsequent job placement and professional success -- appear to be biased against the African American minority group and could be exposed to legal challenge," says the study, which has just appeared in Harvard Educational Review (abstract available here). The existence of racial patterns on SAT scores is hardly new. The average score on the reading part of the SAT was 429 for black students last year -- 99 points behind the average for white students. And while white students' scores were flat, the average score for black students fell by one. Statistics like these are debated every year when SAT data are released, and when similar breakdowns are offered on other standardized tests. The standard explanation offered by defenders of the tests is that the large gaps reflect the inequities in American society -- since black students are less likely than white students to attend well-financed, generously-staffed elementary and secondary schools, their scores lag. In other words, the College Board says that American society is unfair, but the SAT is fair. And while many educators question that fairness of using a test on which wealthier students do consistently better than less wealthy students, research findings that directly isolate race as a factor in the fairness of individual SAT questions have, of late, been few. The new paper in fact is based on a study that set out to replicate one of the last major studies to do so -- a paper published in the Harvard Educational Review in 2003, strongly attacked by the College Board -- and the new paper confirms those results (but using more recent SAT exams). The new paper is by Maria Santelices, assistant professor of education at the Catholic University of Chile, and Mark Wilson, professor of education at the University of California at Berkeley. The earlier study was by Roy Freedle of the Educational Testing Service. The focus of both studies is on questions that show "differential item functioning," known by its acronym DIF. A DIF question is one on which students "matched by proficiency" and other factors have variable scores, predictably by race, on selected questions. A DIF question has notable differences between black and white (or, in theory, other subsets of students) whose educational background and skill set suggest that they should get similar scores. The 2003 study and this year's found no DIF issues in the mathematics section. But what Freedle found in 2003 has now been confirmed independently by the new study: that some kinds of verbal questions have a DIF for black and white students. On some of the easier verbal questions, the two studies found that a DIF favored white students. On some of the most difficult verbal questions, the DIF favored black students. Freedle's theory about why this would be the case was that easier questions are likely reflected in the cultural expressions that are used commonly in the dominant (white) society, so white students have an edge based not on education or study skills or aptitude, but because they are most likely growing up around white people. The more difficult words are more likely to be learned, not just absorbed. While the studies found gains for both black and white students on parts of the SAT, the white advantage is larger such that the studies suggest scores for black students are being held down by the way the test is scored and that a shift to favor the more difficult questions would benefit black test-takers. The new study is based on data for students who enrolled at the University of California system across several administrations of the SAT -- with versions used subsequent to Freedle's article. (The new research is the result of a study the authors undertook at the request of University of California officials, and they note in the paper that despite the request for information from the University of California, it took two years for the College Board to provide the data needed.) While the new study found the same DIF that Freedle did, an attempt to find a DIF for Latino students failed to show one. But, the authors write, that doesn't minimize the significance of their findings that back the study from 2003 that the College Board has said wasn't accurate. "Although our findings limit the phenomenon observed to the verbal test and the African American subgroup, these findings are important because they show that the SAT, a high-stakes test with significant consequences for the educational opportunities available to young people in the United States, favors one ethnic group over another," write Santelices and Wilson. "Neither the specifics of the method used to study differential item functioning nor the date of the test analyzed invalidate Freedle's claims that the SAT treats African American minorities unfairly." Kathleen Fineout Steinberg, a spokeswoman for the College Board, said that just as the organization disagreed with the 2003 study, so it does with the new research. She questioned whether the California sample could be seen as broad enough to draw conclusions on, and said that some of the tests examined had less of a DIF than others, raising questions about the assumptions made. She called the Harvard Educational Review study an example of "presenting inconsistent findings as conclusive fact." She said every test question used on the SAT is subjected to rigorous analysis (before use) to weed out any that would not be fair to all test takers. "We believe that our test is fair," she said. "It is rigorously researched, probably the most rigorously researched standardized test in the world." As to the persistence of score differences, Steinberg said that this is not because of the test. "There certainly are subgroup differences in scores," she said. "We recognize that and acknowledge it. It's a reflection of educational inequity. It's something we are concerned with." She also said that the College Board welcomes research on the SAT, but viewed the Freedle study as having been "discredited," and said that nothing in the new study changed that view. The College Board's tough stance on Freedle's research is not new -- and was recounted by Jay Matthews in an article in 2003 in The Atlantic Monthly. (Matthews broke the news about the new research, in his Washington Post blog.) Robert Schaeffer, public education director of the National Center for Fair and Open Testing, a long-time critic of the SAT, called the new research "a bombshell," and said that the study "presents a profound challenge to institutions which still rely heavily on the SAT to determine undergraduate admissions or scholarship awards." Schaeffer said that he agreed with the authors of the new study that use of the SAT could face legal challenges, given that this study now backs the finding that some of its questions may be harmful to the scores of black test-takers. While the College Board says colleges aren't supposed to rely too much on the SAT, and most colleges that require the SAT say that they use it only as one factor among many, Schaeffer and others have doubted those claims. "A shrewd litigator could use this study and the process of discovery to find out a lot more about how colleges use the test and, at a minimum, embarrass them," he said. More broadly, he said that with more colleges considering ending SAT requirements, this new study is "another strong argument" for doing so. "It's going to add to the momentum." Marist College will be announcing this week that it is ending its SAT requirement, joining many others that have done so." And here was an interesting article in the Washington Post, " What do SAT, ACT scores really mean? By Valerie Strauss The big news in the world of college entrance exams — that would be the SAT and the ACT — is that the scores from the high school class of 2012 were disappointing. Newly released reading scores on the SAT hit a four-decade low, and (bigstock) writing scores edged down too, while math scores were essentially unchanged from last year. SAT average scores have declined by 20 points since 2006, when the test was revised to include a writing section. ACT scores for the 2012 high school class were released in August and the national results were essentially the same as in 2011, meaning no real progress. So what does it all mean? On one level, a lot. On another, pretty much nothing. We all know that many college admissions offices imbue SAT and ACT scores with importance. At schools that are deluged with tens of thousands of applications, numbers matter, so these scores can play an outsized role in admission decisions. That means these scores can affect where individual students get to go to school. Yet significant research shows that SAT and ACT scores don’t really tell us anything meaningful about a student’s future, either academically or in the work world. For one thing, lots of things can affect how well a student does on a high-stakes test, but the strongest correlation to any single factor is family income. As my colleagues Lyndsey Layton and Emma Brown reported here, average SAT scores increase with every $20,000 in additional family income Furthermore, these tests are highly coachable, even if the organizations that own and administer them say they aren’t, giving a boost to kids who have the money and/or wherewithal to get tutored. The content of the ACT is closer to the material a student has covered in high school (in fact, it is based on a national curriculum survey) than is the content of the SAT — but it is still no more accurate than the SAT in predicting college grades, research has shown. Why? Because no standardized test in which students sit there and fill in bubbles and write an essay can capture all of the work habits, coping skills, motivation and other traits needed to be successful in college. Thus at the individual level, ACT/SAT scores are not particularly meaningful, says Bob Schaeffer, public education director of FairTest, or the National Center for Fair & Open Testing, is a non-profit organization that is dedicated to ending what it says are misuses and flaws in standardized testing. “High school grades — even with all the variety between schools and courses — are better predictors of a teenager's performance in higher education, particularly the likelihood of graduation,” he said. That's why 875 accredited, bachelor-degree granting colleges and universities do not require all or many applicants to submit test scores before making admissions decisions. The list of test-optional and test-flexible schools includes nearly 150 ranked in the top tier of their respective categories; the full database is available online here. But Schaeffer said long-term, aggregate SAT and ACT scores trends are one tool for evaluating overall education quality — and they point to the conclusion that U.S. K-12 education is headed in the wrong direction. For Schaeffer, that’s an indictment of the high-stakes fixation of the last decade of No Child Left Behind . “At a minimum, we are failing to make the progress promised by high-stakes testing advocates either in terms of improving overall readiness for college/careers or in closing long-standing test score gaps between racial groups,” he said. Proponents of NCLB and similar state-level standardized testing programs have been saying that test-based accountability systems would lead to increased achievement. It hasn’t happened, and in fact, the opposite has. The SAT and the ACT are said by the organizations that own and administer them that the exams are not really “coachable” and that kids who take lessons on how to improve their score don’t really see much gain. The 2009 book, "Crossing the Finish Line: Completing College at America’s Public Universities," co-authored by former Princeton President William Bowen, found that: * High school grades are a far better incremental predictor of graduation rates than are standard SAT/ACT test scores. * Overly heavy reliance on SAT/ACT scores in admitting students can have adverse effects on the diversity of the student bodies enrolled by universities. * The strong predictive power of high school GPA holds even when we know little or nothing about the quality of the high school attended" It mentions that the ACT is closer to what students actually learn. |
Anonymous
I've read those before. The possible bias was slight, and was only on the verbal portion. There have been other studies done that show no bias. By objective measure I mean non-subjective tests. I.e. SAT/ACT/MAP/DC-CAS etc etc. If you honestly believe that the kids in the DCPS are as smart on average as the kids of doctors, lawyers and scientists that populate the DC private schools then I really don't know what to say. And yes, these disparities exist on the ACT as well: 
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Anonymous
| Those are just overall results - with no explanation of how exactly the alleged "bias" is supposed to be happening. Can you provide examples of specific test questions that demonstrate racial bias? |
Anonymous
Your statement actually supports the PPs statements that its not 'intelligence' its exposure. The children of doctors, lawyers and scientists are the children of individuals who are well-educated and, one would assume, value education. That transfers to how they interact with their children. That doesn't make their children inherently smarter. And BTW- there are children in DCPS whose parents are doctors and lawyers and scientists... |
Anonymous
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Woodson isn't DCPS "STEM" school. DCPS has slapped the title "STEM" on a lot of different schools...
McKinley Tech is probably more in line with a true STEM model. As for numbers not supporting a TJ or Blair (the magnet program in Blair) that's probably true because both school systems are some of the largest in the country. And it may skew largely white simply because in DC, white is almost always middle to high SES; its very rarely low SES. And that makes a HUGE difference. Too many studies have been done to verify that point. If mommy and daddy can hire you a private tutor then of course you will do better than the kids whose parents are working two or three jobs to make ends meet and who lack the skill set to support successful homework completion. |
Anonymous
So what is the solution? Not offering any test in school like TJ since it may skew white? That is preposterous in my opinion since every student should have the opportunity to be challenged. I do not think a school like TJ should be dumbed down just to accommodate students who may be less fortunate in academic terms. Shall we just offer flag football so that those who are not athletically talented may make the cut and play? Instead, I think all students should be afforded rigorous curricula which is often not the case with flexible ability grouping and supports to help those in need. |