Why doesn't DC have a STEM school like TJ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At my kid's school nearly all of the AA kids are high SES, as are nearly all of the white kids. But these posts make me wonder if the other parents are making these assumptions too.

Even when controlled for SES, AA kids do much worse than white and asian kids on standardized tests. White kids in DC score higher on the SAT than white kids in every other state. The scoring gap between AA and white students in DC on the SAT is the largest in the country at over 400 points on a 1600 point scale. If tests like these were used for admittance as they are at other STEM magnet schools, the demographics would skew very heavily white.

[Anonymous]

I would love for you to say at what school your kid is in where nearly all of the AAs are high SES. I'm guessing its west of the park. And " nearly all" of the AAs accounts for less than 10 percent of the school. Hello Janney! Of course there are always exceptions but there is not one majority AA school where the even half of the AAs are high SES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's all about critical mass. Are there enough smart kids that can test into such a school year after year to make it worth it? I don't have a definitive answer to that. We could create a smaller, test in high school similar to Dallas' TAG high school (#1 usnews fwiw), but then how would that be different from Tech, or Banneker? Perhaps we should just raise the entry standards for them?

Again, I am going to suggest BASIS.

The comprehensive exams in 6th, 7th and 8th may not be as high as the entry standards for Tech or Banneker, but they will weed out kids unwilling to work. The LEAP program for math starts in 5th (where all kids are placed in math based on testing), and for other subjects like Science and also English, History etc it starts in 8th. You need a rec from your 7th grade teacher, a certain GPA (not only in the class at issue but also overall), and if they see you flailing they will put you back in the regular classes.

It is a pyramid, with far fewer kids graduating than start out. There are now 35 9th graders at BASIS DC. In terms of skewing white, either #2 (Tucson) or #5 (Scottsdale) (TJ was #3) had a Hispanic population of 20% vs 40% state wide, but there are basically no low income kids.

So BASIS DC is the closest DC can get - although they do it by exmissions rather than admissions - it may eventually skew white, but I think it would take more parents pulling their kids out of private schools, and I hope the lack of sports and the fear of true diversity will scare them off... at least for a few more years, so that it still truly serves the community.

I think you're giving yourself a little too much credit here. You can't speak triumphantly about a weeding-out process that leaves "far fewer kids graduating than starting out" while chastising some straw man private school parent for being scared of diversity. Apparently you'd prefer a high school with fewer than 100 kids total, which would be suffocatingly small, in pursuit of your "community-serving" ideals. What community are you serving, exactly? The 20 children in DC who will stick with BASIS through graduation?

And why would anyone WANT a ninth grade with just 35 children, destined to be whittled down to what--15? 20?--by 12th grade?

I completely understand parents desperate for options in this city, especially for middle school, but I don't at all understand the papering over of the core BASIS flaws, which are obvious to lots of people. On its current path, it is destined to become an entirely STEM-focused high school for a tiny group of high-performing children. Good for you if that works for your children, but don't kid yourself that it's a less exclusive option than Sidwell, WIS, St Alban's, or GDS. It's just a cheaper one, a smaller one, and one that offers an extremely limited arts and humanities curriculum and almost no broadening extracurricular activities.

Your comments just show that you have not bothered to really investigate. The two BASIS high schools that are have 9-12 right now (Tucson and Scottsdale) have about 500 students each, and that does not even take into account the fact that many of the advanced students leave after 11th grade. They call the 8th grade the year of decision, meaning that if BASIS is not for you, you leave, no questions asked and no stigma attached - if you want to be a football player or auto mechanic, at least you have gotten a decent education. The liberal arts curriculum is strong, and the extra currics are still starting and spurting depending on student interest. I don't know how big my private school senior class was at (choose one of the above) Sidwell, STA, NCS, or GDS, but we all knew each other and our teachers knew all of this. The top performing school had 240 kids. BASIS is offering more spots, and while we may not have enough to be a TJ, we do have a liberal arts AP track, and more than anything BASIS supports student and parent choice. Am I glad BASIS was not my high school? Yes. But do I want my kids at SWW #266, Banneker #461, Duke Ellington #1772, or McKnley Tech # 1897. No way. Do I want them at lily white moco schools? Not if I have a choice, because they are not white. Thanks anyway. Bash the only viable option to come along for years because it is starting small. Great job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's all about critical mass. Are there enough smart kids that can test into such a school year after year to make it worth it? I don't have a definitive answer to that. We could create a smaller, test in high school similar to Dallas' TAG high school (#1 usnews fwiw), but then how would that be different from Tech, or Banneker? Perhaps we should just raise the entry standards for them?

Again, I am going to suggest BASIS.

The comprehensive exams in 6th, 7th and 8th may not be as high as the entry standards for Tech or Banneker, but they will weed out kids unwilling to work. The LEAP program for math starts in 5th (where all kids are placed in math based on testing), and for other subjects like Science and also English, History etc it starts in 8th. You need a rec from your 7th grade teacher, a certain GPA (not only in the class at issue but also overall), and if they see you flailing they will put you back in the regular classes.

It is a pyramid, with far fewer kids graduating than start out. There are now 35 9th graders at BASIS DC. In terms of skewing white, either #2 (Tucson) or #5 (Scottsdale) (TJ was #3) had a Hispanic population of 20% vs 40% state wide, but there are basically no low income kids.

So BASIS DC is the closest DC can get - although they do it by exmissions rather than admissions - it may eventually skew white, but I think it would take more parents pulling their kids out of private schools, and I hope the lack of sports and the fear of true diversity will scare them off... at least for a few more years, so that it still truly serves the community.

I think you're giving yourself a little too much credit here. You can't speak triumphantly about a weeding-out process that leaves "far fewer kids graduating than starting out" while chastising some straw man private school parent for being scared of diversity. Apparently you'd prefer a high school with fewer than 100 kids total, which would be suffocatingly small, in pursuit of your "community-serving" ideals. What community are you serving, exactly? The 20 children in DC who will stick with BASIS through graduation?

And why would anyone WANT a ninth grade with just 35 children, destined to be whittled down to what--15? 20?--by 12th grade?

I completely understand parents desperate for options in this city, especially for middle school, but I don't at all understand the papering over of the core BASIS flaws, which are obvious to lots of people. On its current path, it is destined to become an entirely STEM-focused high school for a tiny group of high-performing children. Good for you if that works for your children, but don't kid yourself that it's a less exclusive option than Sidwell, WIS, St Alban's, or GDS. It's just a cheaper one, a smaller one, and one that offers an extremely limited arts and humanities curriculum and almost no broadening extracurricular activities.

Your comments just show that you have not bothered to really investigate. The two BASIS high schools that are have 9-12 right now (Tucson and Scottsdale) have about 500 students each, and that does not even take into account the fact that many of the advanced students leave after 11th grade. They call the 8th grade the year of decision, meaning that if BASIS is not for you, you leave, no questions asked and no stigma attached - if you want to be a football player or auto mechanic, at least you have gotten a decent education. The liberal arts curriculum is strong, and the extra currics are still starting and spurting depending on student interest. I don't know how big my private school senior class was at (choose one of the above) Sidwell, STA, NCS, or GDS, but we all knew each other and our teachers knew all of this. The top performing school had 240 kids. BASIS is offering more spots, and while we may not have enough to be a TJ, we do have a liberal arts AP track, and more than anything BASIS supports student and parent choice. Am I glad BASIS was not my high school? Yes. But do I want my kids at SWW #266, Banneker #461, Duke Ellington #1772, or McKnley Tech # 1897. No way. Do I want them at lily white moco schools? Not if I have a choice, because they are not white. Thanks anyway. Bash the only viable option to come along for years because it is starting small. Great job.

I'm not going to bash BASIS because honestly what the kids are doing there is very impressive, but I do think your characterization of MoCo schools as being "Lilly white" is inaccurate. The highest is 70% white, and the vast majority are between 25-55% white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:it would be empty because no one could get in and and they would have to bus kids in from Virginia and Maryland

Go back to your weekend cram school proofs -- it's almost midnight and there's so much more material to cover!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The liberal arts curriculum is strong, and the extra currics are still starting and spurting depending on student interest. I don't know how big my private school senior class was at (choose one of the above) Sidwell, STA, NCS, or GDS, but we all knew each other and our teachers knew all of this. The top performing school had 240 kids. BASIS is offering more spots, and while we may not have enough to be a TJ, we do have a liberal arts AP track, and more than anything BASIS supports student and parent choice. Am I glad BASIS was not my high school? Yes.

Wonder why you're glad Basis was not your high school? I was bowled over by the 8th Grade teachers at Basis at Back to School night, wishing I'd had such teachers at my high SES NJ Middle/High School. Physics, Biology, Chemistry, Algebra II and Economics, serious kick-ass teachers in 8th Grade, please can I go?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has been talked about in hundreds of posts. A true test in school of TJ caliber would skew so heavily white and high SES that it would never fly in DC. To make it appear more equitable, the standards would gave to be lowered for entry and well then you have Banneker, Mckninly and any other DC school.

Why would it skew 'so heavily white'? Most of the kids at TJ are Asian, whites are minorities there now.

BTW whites aren't the only ppl around here with high SES.

Because the vast majority of kids who have the best test scores in DC are white.

AA, high income family here. My kid is advanced in every subject as are his peers. Would prefer not to be lumped in your generalizations.

You are the exceotion to the rule, and you know it. Let's be realists.

AA are increasingly represented in IT and STEM fields. I think they will dominate these fields. Wake up people, especially white people. They will be your bosses in the near future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has been talked about in hundreds of posts. A true test in school of TJ caliber would skew so heavily white and high SES that it would never fly in DC. To make it appear more equitable, the standards would gave to be lowered for entry and well then you have Banneker, Mckninly and any other DC school.

Why would it skew 'so heavily white'? Most of the kids at TJ are Asian, whites are minorities there now.

BTW whites aren't the only ppl around here with high SES.

Because the vast majority of kids who have the best test scores in DC are white.

AA, high income family here. My kid is advanced in every subject as are his peers. Would prefer not to be lumped in your generalizations.

You are the exceotion to the rule, and you know it. Let's be realists.

AA are increasingly represented in IT and STEM fields. I think they will dominate these fields. Wake up people, especially white people. They will be your bosses in the near future.

New poster here. Who's to say that ethnicity will matter in any way whatsoever? It is not about the ethnicities, but instead it is about the parents, home life, school, etc. No ethnicities are better than others. Was it not Martin Luther King who said, "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has been talked about in hundreds of posts. A true test in school of TJ caliber would skew so heavily white and high SES that it would never fly in DC. To make it appear more equitable, the standards would gave to be lowered for entry and well then you have Banneker, Mckninly and any other DC school.

Why would it skew 'so heavily white'? Most of the kids at TJ are Asian, whites are minorities there now.

BTW whites aren't the only ppl around here with high SES.

Because the vast majority of kids who have the best test scores in DC are white.

AA, high income family here. My kid is advanced in every subject as are his peers. Would prefer not to be lumped in your generalizations.

You are the exceotion to the rule, and you know it. Let's be realists.

AA are increasingly represented in IT and STEM fields. I think they will dominate these fields. Wake up people, especially white people. They will be your bosses in the near future.

New poster here. Who's to say that ethnicity will matter in any way whatsoever? It is not about the ethnicities, but instead it is about the parents, home life, school, etc. No ethnicities are better than others. Was it not Martin Luther King who said, "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

It will matter when they are your boss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has been talked about in hundreds of posts. A true test in school of TJ caliber would skew so heavily white and high SES that it would never fly in DC. To make it appear more equitable, the standards would gave to be lowered for entry and well then you have Banneker, Mckninly and any other DC school.

Why would it skew 'so heavily white'? Most of the kids at TJ are Asian, whites are minorities there now.

BTW whites aren't the only ppl around here with high SES.

Because the vast majority of kids who have the best test scores in DC are white.

AA, high income family here. My kid is advanced in every subject as are his peers. Would prefer not to be lumped in your generalizations.

You are the exceotion to the rule, and you know it. Let's be realists.

AA are increasingly represented in IT and STEM fields. I think they will dominate these fields. Wake up people, especially white people. They will be your bosses in the near future.

New poster here. Who's to say that ethnicity will matter in any way whatsoever? It is not about the ethnicities, but instead it is about the parents, home life, school, etc. No ethnicities are better than others. Was it not Martin Luther King who said, "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

It will matter when they are your boss.

So basically, you are saying that MLK was wrong, and that African Americans will dominate whites, based on ethnicity. This is a disgrace of the civil rights movement, and Martin Luther King would be ashamed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The liberal arts curriculum is strong, and the extra currics are still starting and spurting depending on student interest. I don't know how big my private school senior class was at (choose one of the above) Sidwell, STA, NCS, or GDS, but we all knew each other and our teachers knew all of this. The top performing school had 240 kids. BASIS is offering more spots, and while we may not have enough to be a TJ, we do have a liberal arts AP track, and more than anything BASIS supports student and parent choice. Am I glad BASIS was not my high school? Yes.

Wonder why you're glad Basis was not your high school? I was bowled over by the 8th Grade teachers at Basis at Back to School night, wishing I'd had such teachers at my high SES NJ Middle/High School. Physics, Biology, Chemistry, Algebra II and Economics, serious kick-ass teachers in 8th Grade, please can I go?

Because I had an undiagnosed LD that was math related, and barely got through Algebra II. Perhaps now it would be different, and tutoring etc would have been different, but I still cannot do my dcs math homework. The first private school I went to told my parents I was mentally retarded. They laughed.

Went to an Ivy, have an otherwise great life, but cannot balance a checkbook and always have to have my secretary or my husband do all the calculations related to my profession (not a lot of them). It is a running joke in my family, and although it is funny now, I found myself struggling to help my 2nd grader with graphs of "place numbers" last week and wonder whether I could hack BASIS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has been talked about in hundreds of posts. A true test in school of TJ caliber would skew so heavily white and high SES that it would never fly in DC. To make it appear more equitable, the standards would gave to be lowered for entry and well then you have Banneker, Mckninly and any other DC school.

Why would it skew 'so heavily white'? Most of the kids at TJ are Asian, whites are minorities there now.

BTW whites aren't the only ppl around here with high SES.

Because the vast majority of kids who have the best test scores in DC are white.

AA, high income family here. My kid is advanced in every subject as are his peers. Would prefer not to be lumped in your generalizations.

You are the exceotion to the rule, and you know it. Let's be realists.

AA are increasingly represented in IT and STEM fields. I think they will dominate these fields. Wake up people, especially white people. They will be your bosses in the near future.

New poster here. Who's to say that ethnicity will matter in any way whatsoever? It is not about the ethnicities, but instead it is about the parents, home life, school, etc. No ethnicities are better than others. Was it not Martin Luther King who said, "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

It will matter when they are your boss.

So basically, you are saying that MLK was wrong, and that African Americans will dominate whites, based on ethnicity. This is a disgrace of the civil rights movement, and Martin Luther King would be ashamed.

PP here. Not sure what you're talking about but just meant that AAs will probably become the majority in supervisory roles in these fields in the near future. They are taking advantage of education by getting degrees in difficult majors, which many American born kids do not seem to be attracted to, to improve their SES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has been talked about in hundreds of posts. A true test in school of TJ caliber would skew so heavily white and high SES that it would never fly in DC. To make it appear more equitable, the standards would gave to be lowered for entry and well then you have Banneker, Mckninly and any other DC school.

Why would it skew 'so heavily white'? Most of the kids at TJ are Asian, whites are minorities there now.

BTW whites aren't the only ppl around here with high SES.

Because the vast majority of kids who have the best test scores in DC are white.

AA, high income family here. My kid is advanced in every subject as are his peers. Would prefer not to be lumped in your generalizations.

You are the exceotion to the rule, and you know it. Let's be realists.

AA are increasingly represented in IT and STEM fields. I think they will dominate these fields. Wake up people, especially white people. They will be your bosses in the near future.

New poster here. Who's to say that ethnicity will matter in any way whatsoever? It is not about the ethnicities, but instead it is about the parents, home life, school, etc. No ethnicities are better than others. Was it not Martin Luther King who said, "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

It will matter when they are your boss.

So basically, you are saying that MLK was wrong, and that African Americans will dominate whites, based on ethnicity. This is a disgrace of the civil rights movement, and Martin Luther King would be ashamed.

PP here. Not sure what you're talking about but just meant that AAs will probably become the majority in supervisory roles in these fields in the near future. They are taking advantage of education by getting degrees in difficult majors, which many American born kids do not seem to be attracted to, to improve their SES.

Okay. I misunderstood. However, why did you say that ethnicity will matter in the future?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has been talked about in hundreds of posts. A true test in school of TJ caliber would skew so heavily white and high SES that it would never fly in DC. To make it appear more equitable, the standards would gave to be lowered for entry and well then you have Banneker, Mckninly and any other DC school.

Why would it skew 'so heavily white'? Most of the kids at TJ are Asian, whites are minorities there now.

BTW whites aren't the only ppl around here with high SES.

Because the vast majority of kids who have the best test scores in DC are white.

AA, high income family here. My kid is advanced in every subject as are his peers. Would prefer not to be lumped in your generalizations.

You are the exceotion to the rule, and you know it. Let's be realists.

AA are increasingly represented in IT and STEM fields. I think they will dominate these fields. Wake up people, especially white people. They will be your bosses in the near future.

New poster here. Who's to say that ethnicity will matter in any way whatsoever? It is not about the ethnicities, but instead it is about the parents, home life, school, etc. No ethnicities are better than others. Was it not Martin Luther King who said, "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

It will matter when they are your boss.

So basically, you are saying that MLK was wrong, and that African Americans will dominate whites, based on ethnicity. This is a disgrace of the civil rights movement, and Martin Luther King would be ashamed.

PP here. Not sure what you're talking about but just meant that AAs will probably become the majority in supervisory roles in these fields in the near future. They are taking advantage of education by getting degrees in difficult majors, which many American born kids do not seem to be attracted to, to improve their SES.

Okay. I misunderstood. However, why did you say that ethnicity will matter in the future?

Also, not saying you are wrong, just genuinely interested, what studies back this up?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has been talked about in hundreds of posts. A true test in school of TJ caliber would skew so heavily white and high SES that it would never fly in DC. To make it appear more equitable, the standards would gave to be lowered for entry and well then you have Banneker, Mckninly and any other DC school.

Why would it skew 'so heavily white'? Most of the kids at TJ are Asian, whites are minorities there now.

BTW whites aren't the only ppl around here with high SES.

Because the vast majority of kids who have the best test scores in DC are white.

AA, high income family here. My kid is advanced in every subject as are his peers. Would prefer not to be lumped in your generalizations.

You are the exceotion to the rule, and you know it. Let's be realists.

AA are increasingly represented in IT and STEM fields. I think they will dominate these fields. Wake up people, especially white people. They will be your bosses in the near future.

New poster here. Who's to say that ethnicity will matter in any way whatsoever? It is not about the ethnicities, but instead it is about the parents, home life, school, etc. No ethnicities are better than others. Was it not Martin Luther King who said, "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

It will matter when they are your boss.

So basically, you are saying that MLK was wrong, and that African Americans will dominate whites, based on ethnicity. This is a disgrace of the civil rights movement, and Martin Luther King would be ashamed.

PP here. Not sure what you're talking about but just meant that AAs will probably become the majority in supervisory roles in these fields in the near future. They are taking advantage of education by getting degrees in difficult majors, which many American born kids do not seem to be attracted to, to improve their SES.

Okay. I misunderstood. However, why did you say that ethnicity will matter in the future?

Because, like many groups of similar types of people, will likely promote from within their group. Why do you seem surprised by that? People often go with what is familiar. And I think they may be more apt to do this given the disparity in opportunities afforded AAs.