Really don't like seeing the signs on Christian churches offering Seders

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So, anyway, I understand where OP is coming from. I can't imagine Catholics would like it if Jews decided to start celebrating mass but did it completely differently from centuries of tradition, and claimed it was still somehow authentic.

+1. Jews don't really have the concept of sacrilege, but if we did, that's close to the feeling evoked by Christians trying to understand more about their god by practicing our traditions. Traditions which don't exactly have a history of being accepted by Christians.

Our God, the Father, is the same god as yours. We don't worship the fucking devil, you know. Good grief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So, anyway, I understand where OP is coming from. I can't imagine Catholics would like it if Jews decided to start celebrating mass but did it completely differently from centuries of tradition, and claimed it was still somehow authentic.

+1. Jews don't really have the concept of sacrilege, but if we did, that's close to the feeling evoked by Christians trying to understand more about their god by practicing our traditions. Traditions which don't exactly have a history of being accepted by Christians.

On the contrary, Christians understand that Jesus was Jewish. Jewish traditions were very much a part of Jesus' life, and the Last Supper was a seder. This isn't a new appropriation of the tradition, instead it's something that's been recognized for 2000 years as being integral to the Last Supper.

So the seder-throwing christians are having historically accurate ones? Similar to how some go to Jerusalem and carry a cross along his route? Or are they going to modern seders and having brisket? which bears no similarity to what Jesus did?

I hope for the Christians' sakes that you are going to seders held by knowledgeable Jewish people who can make you appreciate the KEY DIFFERENCE between Judaism as Jesus practiced it and Judaism now: the destruction of the temple. The Judaism that Jesus practiced is not similar to modern Judaism OR modern Christianity, but for different reasons.

+1

Jewish NP here.

No problem with non-Jews at seders, but it's kind of odd for Christians to host their own for other Christians. The first seems like a great chance at cross-cultural and religious harmony, the second does seem like they are emphasizing Jesus at a holiday that really has nothing to do with him.

If you wanted to celebrate Passover as it would have been before the destruction of the 2nd temple, there would be no haggadah etc. Maybe eat a lamb you killed that day? That would be an interesting seder!

I mean, who runs these Christian seders? Do you sing the songs in Hebrew?

Do you feel uncomfortable with saying "we" and "us" when referring to Jews or is it all playacting, so it doesn't really matter? Like when you say "we were slaves . . ."

Sorry, but I'm with OP on this one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jewish NP here. Can someone say more about these christian seders? Which haggadah do they use? Are they on that year's first night of passover or always the thursday before easter?

Just stop. Now you are all being assholes. Rude assholes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Catholic here, I went to my first Passover Seder last night at our neighbor's house, what a great experience. Certainly gives me an appreciation for better understanding and respecting the building blocks for Christianity.

Ugh. Glad I didnt invite you to my house.

So from the very ugly vitriol being posted by you and other Jews here we can assume you are all such good, observant Jews that you are spending Passover putting down Christians, right? What peaches you are. This isn't fucking Germany in WWII, jerks. Think about the way you are acting and how it reflects on YOU and others' impressions of your faith. Yeah, YOU'RE really doing a lot to advance interfaith dialogue with this nonsense. Not ONE Christian poster here has anything negative to say about the Jewish religion. Not ONE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jewish NP here. Can someone say more about these christian seders? Which haggadah do they use? Are they on that year's first night of passover or always the thursday before easter?

Just stop. Now you are all being assholes. Rude assholes.

I see nothing rude in what pp asked. I'm an agnostic. I've been to seders hosted by jewish friends, and seders hosted by jewish groups for people of other faiths. I wouldn't playact a non-jewish seder for the same reason I wouldn't dress my daughter in a pretty communion dress and feed her fake communion hosts--I have respect for the traditions that people of faith hold sacred.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So, anyway, I understand where OP is coming from. I can't imagine Catholics would like it if Jews decided to start celebrating mass but did it completely differently from centuries of tradition, and claimed it was still somehow authentic.

+1. Jews don't really have the concept of sacrilege, but if we did, that's close to the feeling evoked by Christians trying to understand more about their god by practicing our traditions. Traditions which don't exactly have a history of being accepted by Christians.

On the contrary, Christians understand that Jesus was Jewish. Jewish traditions were very much a part of Jesus' life, and the Last Supper was a seder. This isn't a new appropriation of the tradition, instead it's something that's been recognized for 2000 years as being integral to the Last Supper.

So the seder-throwing christians are having historically accurate ones? Similar to how some go to Jerusalem and carry a cross along his route? Or are they going to modern seders and having brisket? which bears no similarity to what Jesus did?

I hope for the Christians' sakes that you are going to seders held by knowledgeable Jewish people who can make you appreciate the KEY DIFFERENCE between Judaism as Jesus practiced it and Judaism now: the destruction of the temple. The Judaism that Jesus practiced is not similar to modern Judaism OR modern Christianity, but for different reasons.

+1

Jewish NP here.

No problem with non-Jews at seders, but it's kind of odd for Christians to host their own for other Christians. The first seems like a great chance at cross-cultural and religious harmony, the second does seem like they are emphasizing Jesus at a holiday that really has nothing to do with him.

If you wanted to celebrate Passover as it would have been before the destruction of the 2nd temple, there would be no haggadah etc. Maybe eat a lamb you killed that day? That would be an interesting seder!

I mean, who runs these Christian seders? Do you sing the songs in Hebrew?

Do you feel uncomfortable with saying "we" and "us" when referring to Jews or is it all playacting, so it doesn't really matter? Like when you say "we were slaves . . ."

Sorry, but I'm with OP on this one.

Well, you win for being dense. It's been explained many times that the "seder" is symbolic and is meant to re-enact the last supper. The meaning of Passover doesn't really play into it. But that doesn't really play into your need to feel constant offense so I guess you can continue to ignore that fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jewish NP here. Can someone say more about these christian seders? Which haggadah do they use? Are they on that year's first night of passover or always the thursday before easter?

Just stop. Now you are all being assholes. Rude assholes.

I see nothing rude in what pp asked. I'm an agnostic. I've been to seders hosted by jewish friends, and seders hosted by jewish groups for people of other faiths. I wouldn't playact a non-jewish seder for the same reason I wouldn't dress my daughter in a pretty communion dress and feed her fake communion hosts--I have respect for the traditions that people of faith hold sacred.

Fine. You win. Instead of reenacting the Last Supper of our savior at which we were commanded to carry on the sacrament of communion, our intent - during Holy Week no less - is to greatly offend all Jews everywhere. I'll be sure to inform my priest of that so he can have a good laugh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So, anyway, I understand where OP is coming from. I can't imagine Catholics would like it if Jews decided to start celebrating mass but did it completely differently from centuries of tradition, and claimed it was still somehow authentic.

+1. Jews don't really have the concept of sacrilege, but if we did, that's close to the feeling evoked by Christians trying to understand more about their god by practicing our traditions. Traditions which don't exactly have a history of being accepted by Christians.

On the contrary, Christians understand that Jesus was Jewish. Jewish traditions were very much a part of Jesus' life, and the Last Supper was a seder. This isn't a new appropriation of the tradition, instead it's something that's been recognized for 2000 years as being integral to the Last Supper.

So the seder-throwing christians are having historically accurate ones? Similar to how some go to Jerusalem and carry a cross along his route? Or are they going to modern seders and having brisket? which bears no similarity to what Jesus did?

I hope for the Christians' sakes that you are going to seders held by knowledgeable Jewish people who can make you appreciate the KEY DIFFERENCE between Judaism as Jesus practiced it and Judaism now: the destruction of the temple. The Judaism that Jesus practiced is not similar to modern Judaism OR modern Christianity, but for different reasons.

So now you're arguing that Christian seders can't possibly resemble modern Jewish seders. In which case: WHERE IS THE PROBLEM??

Honestly, your arguments have devolved into a "gotcha game" to the point where you sacrifice logic to the cause of stoking your injured outrage. Couple this with your feigned obtuseness about the historical origins of the Last Supper. I agree with the several posters who have said that you need to stop and consider how all this reflects on you and your faith. Most of whom, I'm sure, don't want to represented by the nasty likes of you. Just stop.

[Anonymous]

It's been clear from OP's first post that she wanted a fight, not a thoughtful discussion. She has never engaged in an actual discussion, a back-and-forth, with any other posters. She very obviously hasn't wanted to listen to a single one of the several thoughtful explanations (one of them was mine).

So what is OP's motive? To fuel her sense of outrage and injustice, obviously. OP, can I suggest that this is not a recipe for happiness in life. You need to get another hobby.

[Anonymous]

I think we should just rename this thread, "Don't talk to me, I'm six and I WANT to be mad" and be done with it....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:



Well, you win for being dense. It's been explained many times that the "seder" is symbolic and is meant to re-enact the last supper. The meaning of Passover doesn't really play into it. But that doesn't really play into your need to feel constant offense so I guess you can continue to ignore that fact.

But why call it a seder, then? That's what I don't understand. It's not a seder. It's a ritual meal or a re-enactment of the Last Supper. I wouldn't call my Passover seder an Easter meal even if it were held on Easter. The word "seder" has a very specific meaning. Just like mass, or Communion. You can't take things that might resemble mass or Communion and call them by that name when they're not. That is what I and some of the other Jewish posters on this thread object to -- not the meal or celebration itself, but the appropriation of a name, an idea, a tradition, that is very much alive and critical to the celebration of one of the most important Jewish holidays. I know Christians who hold these so-called seders probably don't have any such intention, but that is what it feels like to those who celebrate the original. Don't call it a seder, and I'll be happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:



Well, you win for being dense. It's been explained many times that the "seder" is symbolic and is meant to re-enact the last supper. The meaning of Passover doesn't really play into it. But that doesn't really play into your need to feel constant offense so I guess you can continue to ignore that fact.

But why call it a seder, then? That's what I don't understand. It's not a seder. It's a ritual meal or a re-enactment of the Last Supper. I wouldn't call my Passover seder an Easter meal even if it were held on Easter. The word "seder" has a very specific meaning. Just like mass, or Communion. You can't take things that might resemble mass or Communion and call them by that name when they're not. That is what I and some of the other Jewish posters on this thread object to -- not the meal or celebration itself, but the appropriation of a name, an idea, a tradition, that is very much alive and critical to the celebration of one of the most important Jewish holidays. I know Christians who hold these so-called seders probably don't have any such intention, but that is what it feels like to those who celebrate the original. Don't call it a seder, and I'll be happy.

Duly noted. We live to make you happy.

[Anonymous]

For a Christian to celebrate a seder isn't an appropriation since Jesus was a Jew and took part in this ritual.

Jesus didn't have a Bar Mitzvah, so for a Christian to take part in this would be an appropriation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For a Christian to celebrate a seder isn't an appropriation since Jesus was a Jew and took part in this ritual.

Jesus didn't have a Bar Mitzvah, so for a Christian to take part in this would be an appropriation.

You must be new. This point has been made again.and.again.and.again. No one wants to hear it, so they pretend you never said it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For a Christian to celebrate a seder isn't an appropriation since Jesus was a Jew and took part in this ritual.

Jesus didn't have a Bar Mitzvah, so for a Christian to take part in this would be an appropriation.

And you know this how? It's my understanding that very little is known about Jesus' teenage years.