Really don't like seeing the signs on Christian churches offering Seders

[Anonymous]

Um, I'm not even a reform Jew, I am so non-observant -- and there were many years growing up that I went to two passover seders -- first and second night. As someone else pointed out, that is totally normal in the Reform community -- not reserved for Orthodox Jews. This is a time when you invite friends over.

I went to seder this year on the first night and then was invited to a second one, which I am not going to. My friend is going to a seder tonight (Conservative, not Orthodox) because that's when her family is coming into town.

So, yeah, if you're 38 you could have been to 70 seders in your life, no big deal.

Sorry to contradict your 80-year-old MIL and all, but you really don't know what you're talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jewish poster here: I haven't seen the signs the OP is speaking about but it would bother me as well. I do not believe a non-Jew can cook and run a seder as well as a Jewish person can. However, for me, a huge part of Passover is the cultural aspect of it, which probably adds to my first-stated belief. I'm 38. I've been to over 70 seders in my life. It's about family and culture and rituals and religion. To make it about Jesus is preposterous and insulting. Passover is NOT about Jesus. It may have been his last supper, but Passover was not because of or about him. That's why I find it insulting to me, as a Jewish person, for a church to have a seder.

If you are not Jewish and want to learn about Passover, about a seder, then come to my seder. Get yourself invited to a real seder, one run by a Jewish family, in a Jewish home, by someone who's been doing this for decades, who has learned how to run a seder from his and her parents.

So, you're orthodox? and you do first and second night? in which case, why'd you miss 6? and who counts things that way? Who says: i've had 38 Succoths, beat that, goyim! I'm just saying...but good for you, keepin' it kosher er, real and all.

Huh? what about this person in ANY WAY suggests that she is Orthodox??? There is a poster on here who keeps claiming various Jewish posters must be Orthodox...which is totally weird. I hate to break it to you, but very few Orthodox Jewish posters would be spending time on DCUM during PASSOVER, idiot!

OK. The PP said she is 38 years old. Passover comes ONCE A YEAR. Orthodox Jews observe first and second night of Passover. It would be mathematically impossible for her to have attended more than one Seder a year unless she went to 2 in one day. Crazy.

Many reform and conservative Jews observe the first and second night of Passover. If you don't know what you are talking about you should really refrain from commenting. It is entirely unhelp to the discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jewish poster here: I haven't seen the signs the OP is speaking about but it would bother me as well. I do not believe a non-Jew can cook and run a seder as well as a Jewish person can. However, for me, a huge part of Passover is the cultural aspect of it, which probably adds to my first-stated belief. I'm 38. I've been to over 70 seders in my life. It's about family and culture and rituals and religion. To make it about Jesus is preposterous and insulting. Passover is NOT about Jesus. It may have been his last supper, but Passover was not because of or about him. That's why I find it insulting to me, as a Jewish person, for a church to have a seder.

If you are not Jewish and want to learn about Passover, about a seder, then come to my seder. Get yourself invited to a real seder, one run by a Jewish family, in a Jewish home, by someone who's been doing this for decades, who has learned how to run a seder from his and her parents.

So, you're orthodox? and you do first and second night? in which case, why'd you miss 6? and who counts things that way? Who says: i've had 38 Succoths, beat that, goyim! I'm just saying...but good for you, keepin' it kosher er, real and all.

Huh? what about this person in ANY WAY suggests that she is Orthodox??? There is a poster on here who keeps claiming various Jewish posters must be Orthodox...which is totally weird. I hate to break it to you, but very few Orthodox Jewish posters would be spending time on DCUM during PASSOVER, idiot!

Are you even Jewish?? The first two days and last two days of Passover are (no-work) holidays treated the same as Shabbat.

Wow. Idiot huh? There is no prohibition against using technology during Passover. It isn't shabbos.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jewish poster here: I haven't seen the signs the OP is speaking about but it would bother me as well. I do not believe a non-Jew can cook and run a seder as well as a Jewish person can. However, for me, a huge part of Passover is the cultural aspect of it, which probably adds to my first-stated belief. I'm 38. I've been to over 70 seders in my life. It's about family and culture and rituals and religion. To make it about Jesus is preposterous and insulting. Passover is NOT about Jesus. It may have been his last supper, but Passover was not because of or about him. That's why I find it insulting to me, as a Jewish person, for a church to have a seder.

If you are not Jewish and want to learn about Passover, about a seder, then come to my seder. Get yourself invited to a real seder, one run by a Jewish family, in a Jewish home, by someone who's been doing this for decades, who has learned how to run a seder from his and her parents.

So, you're orthodox? and you do first and second night? in which case, why'd you miss 6? and who counts things that way? Who says: i've had 38 Succoths, beat that, goyim! I'm just saying...but good for you, keepin' it kosher er, real and all.

Huh? what about this person in ANY WAY suggests that she is Orthodox??? There is a poster on here who keeps claiming various Jewish posters must be Orthodox...which is totally weird. I hate to break it to you, but very few Orthodox Jewish posters would be spending time on DCUM during PASSOVER, idiot!

Wow. Idiot huh? There is no prohibition against using technology during Passover. It isn't shabbos.

Oops; quote function screwed up:

Are you even Jewish?? The first two days and last two days of Passover are (no-work) holidays treated the same as Shabbat.

[Anonymous]

I saw a few questions earlier in the thread that I am not sure were answered, so here's my experience.

I'm Christian, and my church hosted a seder which I attended a few years ago. They did it again last night but I didn't attend.

Both times, it's been led by a Rabbi who is a Messianic Jew, thus he's culturally Jewish but also believes Jesus is the Messiah. I am fairly certain when I attended that the Rabbi leader was also the Rabbi for a local Messianic Jewish congregation. My church would never attempt to host a seder on their own without a Rabbi to lead it.

When I went a few years ago, the focus was on explaining the ritual, symbolism, and meaning behind all that is involved so that we, as Christians, could better understand Christ and the Jewish practices of the first century when he lived. It also greatly enriched my understanding of the Old Testament. It was done most respectfully, but I have no idea if it was done in a more "old way" vs. "modern" way.

I hope that helps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I saw a few questions earlier in the thread that I am not sure were answered, so here's my experience.

I'm Christian, and my church hosted a seder which I attended a few years ago. They did it again last night but I didn't attend.

Both times, it's been led by a Rabbi who is a Messianic Jew, thus he's culturally Jewish but also believes Jesus is the Messiah. I am fairly certain when I attended that the Rabbi leader was also the Rabbi for a local Messianic Jewish congregation. My church would never attempt to host a seder on their own without a Rabbi to lead it.

When I went a few years ago, the focus was on explaining the ritual, symbolism, and meaning behind all that is involved so that we, as Christians, could better understand Christ and the Jewish practices of the first century when he lived. It also greatly enriched my understanding of the Old Testament. It was done most respectfully, but I have no idea if it was done in a more "old way" vs. "modern" way.

I hope that helps.

Ugh that's even worse. Sorry, I don't mean to insult you and I doubt your church is aware, but most Jews are very sensitive about Messianic Jews / Jews for Jesus. Honestly, they are Christian. Not Jewish, not culturally Jewish -- they may have been born Jewish, raised Jewish, but they became Christian the moment they accepted Jesus as the Messiah. I mean, isn't that the very definition of Christianity -- believing that Jesus is the Messiah, Savior, God, etc? Jews don't care one whit about Jesus.

[Anonymous]

Messianic Jews and Jews for Jesus only minister to Jews, and they are run by former jews, so in a way that is a form of 'new' judaism.
They are not protestant or catholic. Christians who are not jewish are pressured to practice a form of Judaism if they were to join them.

I am OK with some aspects of 'ancient' judaism being mentioned in church, to understand the times that the bible was written and get a better picture of the context. Other than that I do not see what the fascination is.

I do not understand why some jews would find this a sensitive subject. Judaism is based on your mother being jewish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Messianic Jews and Jews for Jesus only minister to Jews, and they are run by former jews, so in a way that is a form of 'new' judaism.
They are not protestant or catholic. Christians who are not jewish are pressured to practice a form of Judaism if they were to join them.

I am OK with some aspects of 'ancient' judaism being mentioned in church, to understand the times that the bible was written and get a better picture of the context. Other than that I do not see what the fascination is.

I do not understand why some jews would find this a sensitive subject. Judaism is based on your mother being jewish.

The key being "former" Jews. They are not Jews and they don't minister to Jews, I assure you. Most Jews flee in the other direction. My mother wouldn't even drive near the Messianic synagogue. They do not practice a form of Judaism. They practice a form of archaic Christianity. Or something. I don't know what it is, exactly, but I know what it is not: Judaism.

As for your statement that Judaism is "based on your mother being Jewish," that is merely the religious definition of who qualifies as a Jew (matrilineal descent). It says nothing about the religion itself, its core tenets, its beliefs.

[Anonymous]

I just have to say, based on the recent back and forth between Jews arguing about what is and is not common Jewish practice, that you should all probably just worry about your own religious life and stop worrying about what everyone else is doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, where are you? You've received some thoughtful responses and it's disheartening to have someone begin a thread like this and then refuse to engage. Were you looking to vent or honestly asking a question?

Actually, I think I've received some incredibly hostile responses and I don't want to continue in that tradition. I was hoping to start a thoughtful dialogue but "You are icky" isn't what I'm looking for. Sorry.

You used a term to describe something a Christian church does to worship their Jewish Lord. You asked for people to talk you down on a notoriously snarky web forum. Now, you are saying you don't want to participate because people engaged, one person used the term you used first. You flippantly dismissed their Lord, their responses and finally your role in all of this? hmmm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just have to say, based on the recent back and forth between Jews arguing about what is and is not common Jewish practice, that you should all probably just worry about your own religious life and stop worrying about what everyone else is doing.

Yeah. Because Christians NEVER debate Christianity. I mean, there is only one form of Christianity, right? One definition of the Trinity, one Gospel, one way of thinking about faith vs. acts or the Elect and how to get to heaven, and of course Catholics and Protestants are buddies, and Baptists too, and there are no splinter sects at all. And everybody loves the Eastern Orthodox, and Mormons.

Shut it, buddy. I mean really. You have some nerve criticizing us. Get your own house in order.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just have to say, based on the recent back and forth between Jews arguing about what is and is not common Jewish practice, that you should all probably just worry about your own religious life and stop worrying about what everyone else is doing.

Yeah. Because Christians NEVER debate Christianity. I mean, there is only one form of Christianity, right? One definition of the Trinity, one Gospel, one way of thinking about faith vs. acts or the Elect and how to get to heaven, and of course Catholics and Protestants are buddies, and Baptists too, and there are no splinter sects at all. And everybody loves the Eastern Orthodox, and Mormons.

Shut it, buddy. I mean really. You have some nerve criticizing us. Get your own house in order.

Well, I personally don't give one fig what the Baptists, Mormons, or Evangelicals do, because I am not one of them. I also don't care what various Jewish sects do, or what the Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus or anybody else does either. I'm just a live and let live person that way, and don't go out of my way to get my panties in a bunch over things that don't personally affect me in any way whatsoever.

[Anonymous]

Here's the bottom line:

Christians are going to do this. You can get upset about it or you can ignore it. Your choice. The Christians are going to ignore you and do what they want. You can play "Ain't it awful?" all you like, but it isn't going to change anything.

[Anonymous]

I just want to point out that there are Temples that do interfaith seders, and that a lot of Christian churches do in fact work with their Jewish counterparts to hold these. Some don't, but hey, you can't get worked up over everything.

http://www.whctemple.org/assets/special_holiday_services/201204_PassoverSeders.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's the bottom line:

Christians are going to do this. You can get upset about it or you can ignore it. Your choice. The Christians are going to ignore you and do what they want. You can play "Ain't it awful?" all you like, but it isn't going to change anything.

Well, that's pretty much true about the whole world, isn't it?