Pro Choice Dem for Palin

[Anonymous]

"In all of U.S. history, 8 presidents have died in office. Out of 43. This means that the odds that we'll wake up one morning to a President Palin are just under one in five, maybe a little more given McCain's age and health history. Then again, remember that McCain has a healthy and active 96-year-old mother. "

Lets keep in mind that there have been even more instances where a sitting President has been temporarily incapicited and the VP steps. Lets say McCain has a heart attack or needs to undergo surgery, she would be in charge then. These instances, while seemingly insignificant to many americans (no one is going to draft legislation in 3-4 days) are critical from a national security standpoint. Other nations watch carefully and with more unpredictable governments, this window of weakness with Palin in place at the situation room could be seen as an opportunity to hostile nations.

McCain, I believe, is the oldes person to run for president at 72 (Reagan was what 67? and wisely chose a VP with significant intelligence-CIA and foreign policy experience) and has had several bouts of cancer. The odds comparing him against much younger past presidents with a clean bill of health would not be entirely accurate. I had to say it though but even if the odds were only 1 in 5, that is an awfully dangerous gamble to make.

[Anonymous]

PP here ..its incapacitated...typo

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Did I say he was governor? People have been diminishing Palin b/c she's from a small state - hence the comparison. Had he been governor, instead of in the Senate since age 30, perhaps he'd know how to run something other than his mouth."

Biden has been on the Senate Foreign Policy Committee, which is significant. There is an extraordinary amount of information that needs to be digested within this space. He would also be familiar with the nuances of the various international figure, the positions of the countries, and had access to a level of detail beyond what you read in the Post...or People magazine if that is your primary issues source of data.

You're so clever - how would presume to know where I get my news or data. I don't read People, don't trust the Post, but do know that all those years on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee have given Biden lots of opportunities to opine on foreign policy matters and demonstrate a catastrophic lack of judgement. Let's talk about partitioning Iraq, for starters ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

WHAT, pray tell, is her "compelling story that resonates with a lot of voters??"

She's a woman! Haven't you heard? And she's pro-life.

That's about it as far as I can discern... Unfortunately, apparently that is "compelling" enough for a lot of people, which is extremely disappointing.

And that's precisely all it takes (being a woman and pro-life) to get supposedly intelligent and progressive women to unleash on her for every personal choice she's ever made, from working, to bringing her baby to a seminal event in her life. It undercuts the whole pro-choice movement's effort to equate being pro-choice with being pro-woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

WHAT, pray tell, is her "compelling story that resonates with a lot of voters??"

She's a woman! Haven't you heard? And she's pro-life.

That's about it as far as I can discern... Unfortunately, apparently that is "compelling" enough for a lot of people, which is extremely disappointing.

And that's precisely all it takes (being a woman and pro-life) to get supposedly intelligent and progressive women to unleash on her for every personal choice she's ever made, from working, to bringing her baby to a seminal event in her life. It undercuts the whole pro-choice movement's effort to equate being pro-choice with being pro-woman.

Bravo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"In all of U.S. history, 8 presidents have died in office. Out of 43. This means that the odds that we'll wake up one morning to a President Palin are just under one in five, maybe a little more given McCain's age and health history. Then again, remember that McCain has a healthy and active 96-year-old mother. "

Lets keep in mind that there have been even more instances where a sitting President has been temporarily incapicited and the VP steps. Lets say McCain has a heart attack or needs to undergo surgery, she would be in charge then. These instances, while seemingly insignificant to many americans (no one is going to draft legislation in 3-4 days) are critical from a national security standpoint. Other nations watch carefully and with more unpredictable governments, this window of weakness with Palin in place at the situation room could be seen as an opportunity to hostile nations.

McCain, I believe, is the oldes person to run for president at 72 (Reagan was what 67? and wisely chose a VP with significant intelligence-CIA and foreign policy experience) and has had several bouts of cancer. The odds comparing him against much younger past presidents with a clean bill of health would not be entirely accurate. I had to say it though but even if the odds were only 1 in 5, that is an awfully dangerous gamble to make.

1 in 5 is still quite a high probability. Damn, 20% is very high probability of dying in office! While McCain's mother may be 96, how old was his father when he died?

[Anonymous]

Let's talk about partitioning Iraq, for starters ...

Okay, I'll take the bait.

While you may not agree with it as a solution, the soft partitioning that Biden outlined is hardly anything to sneer at-- many people who profoundly understand the situation in Iraq think it needs to be partitioned, including revered regional experts, military personnel who have served there, and current and former diplomats. Ironically, most of these experts think that Iraq could have been salvageable as a single state if the period right after the fall of Hussein wasn't so botched by the Bush administration. At any rate, it is an opinion that an educated person could easily reach.

McCain, on the other hand, doesn't seem to be able to remember the difference between Shia and Sunni Muslims. Or that Iraq doesn't share a border with Pakistan. Or that Czechoslovakia doesn't exist anymore. Or that we had a major conflict between 9/11 and the war in Iraq. And Biden is the one you don't think knows his stuff? Sheesh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think your point about dems not being able to recognize a good repub has some truth but would add an important qualification: it's very much a mutual thing (how many times have you hear the demo party referred to with dripping contempt as 'the democrat party,' wow isn't that witty)

Republicans were falling all over Obama last year.

[Anonymous]

I'd like to film an interview with a woman who is either undecided or leans Democratic but is considering voting Republican because of Palin. This would be featured in a story on Palin's impact on women voters for Voice of America Television, which broadcasts around the world but not in the US. If you're interested, please email Leta at [e-mail].

[Anonymous]

And that's precisely all it takes (being a woman and pro-life) to get supposedly intelligent and progressive women to unleash on her for every personal choice she's ever made, from working, to bringing her baby to a seminal event in her life. It undercuts the whole pro-choice movement's effort to equate being pro-choice with being pro-woman.

Or, coming at it from a different perspective, being a woman and being pro-life is all it takes to get supposedly intelligent women to defend her, despite her gross lack of relevant experience and proven dishonesties. There are PLENTY of reasons to dislike and distrust Sarah Palin that have nothing to do with her gender, her stance on abortion, or her family life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"In all of U.S. history, 8 presidents have died in office. Out of 43. This means that the odds that we'll wake up one morning to a President Palin are just under one in five, maybe a little more given McCain's age and health history. Then again, remember that McCain has a healthy and active 96-year-old mother. "

Lets keep in mind that there have been even more instances where a sitting President has been temporarily incapicited and the VP steps. Lets say McCain has a heart attack or needs to undergo surgery, she would be in charge then. These instances, while seemingly insignificant to many americans (no one is going to draft legislation in 3-4 days) are critical from a national security standpoint. Other nations watch carefully and with more unpredictable governments, this window of weakness with Palin in place at the situation room could be seen as an opportunity to hostile nations.

McCain, I believe, is the oldes person to run for president at 72 (Reagan was what 67? and wisely chose a VP with significant intelligence-CIA and foreign policy experience) and has had several bouts of cancer. The odds comparing him against much younger past presidents with a clean bill of health would not be entirely accurate. I had to say it though but even if the odds were only 1 in 5, that is an awfully dangerous gamble to make.

OK, 8 presidents have died in office. But let's look at how they died. Four of those were assassinated (or were at least shot, and later died from complications). That could happen to someone at any age. Two more died of pneumonia (again, can happen at any age; see Bernie Mac). One died of cholera after eating tainted cherries. Ahem. And FDR died of a cerebral hemhorrage. Here's a link to the list:
http://americanhistory.about.com/od/uspresidents/f/pres_deaths.htm

And to answer the question above, Reagan was two weeks shy of turning 70 when he took office.

[Anonymous]

OK, 8 presidents have died in office. But let's look at how they died. Four of those were assassinated (or were at least shot, and later died from complications). That could happen to someone at any age. Two more died of pneumonia (again, can happen at any age; see Bernie Mac). One died of cholera after eating tainted cherries. Ahem. And FDR died of a cerebral hemhorrage. Here's a link to the list:
http://americanhistory.about.com/od/uspresidents/f/pres_deaths.htm

And to answer the question above, Reagan was two weeks shy of turning 70 when he took office.

I wonder if any of them suffered previous bouts of cancer.

The point is that it is possible for any President to die in office (as you've indicated) and that there has to be a qualified second in command to take over should it be necessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

OK, 8 presidents have died in office. But let's look at how they died. Four of those were assassinated (or were at least shot, and later died from complications). That could happen to someone at any age. Two more died of pneumonia (again, can happen at any age; see Bernie Mac). One died of cholera after eating tainted cherries. Ahem. And FDR died of a cerebral hemhorrage. Here's a link to the list:
http://americanhistory.about.com/od/uspresidents/f/pres_deaths.htm

And to answer the question above, Reagan was two weeks shy of turning 70 when he took office.

I wonder if any of them suffered previous bouts of cancer.

The point is that it is possible for any President to die in office (as you've indicated) and that there has to be a qualified second in command to take over should it be necessary.

I love google: http://www.doctorzebra.com/Prez/o_CANCER.html

I'm the poster quoted above. I agree--any president can die in office, and it is important to have a qualified VP. I just think the scare tactic 8 out of 43 was directed specifically at McCain because of his age, and my point was just that other than arguably FDR, none of them died from age/chronic illness.

[Anonymous]

Uh, the older you get (once you clear the first few years of life, that is), the more likely you are to die during the next n years. For a given individual, the probability of dying next year is higher at 72 than at 71, and so on down the line. Of course it's possible to use McCain's age as a scare tactice....but it's also a legitimate issue. You could get a population-wide estimation of p(dead at 73, 74, 75, or 76 given alive at 72), but this would give you limited info about McCain himself, obviously. To summarize:

1) it's true we can only get a very rough idea of McCain's prob of dying in the next 4/8 years

2) it's false to conclude therefore that his age is not an issue, particularly when you're reaching that conclusion on the basis of the manner of death of other presidents who differed in age, medical care, genetic endowment, etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

And that's precisely all it takes (being a woman and pro-life) to get supposedly intelligent and progressive women to unleash on her for every personal choice she's ever made, from working, to bringing her baby to a seminal event in her life. It undercuts the whole pro-choice movement's effort to equate being pro-choice with being pro-woman.

Or, coming at it from a different perspective, being a woman and being pro-life is all it takes to get supposedly intelligent women to defend her, despite her gross lack of relevant experience and proven dishonesties. There are PLENTY of reasons to dislike and distrust Sarah Palin that have nothing to do with her gender, her stance on abortion, or her family life.

No, actually, I think what has motivated a lot of people (women included) to defend her are the bitter attacks levied on her -- not on legitimate questions, like her experience or aptitude in matters of national and foreign policy, but on issues that have to do with her gender, and her family life. Peruse these boards and you'll see the percentage of criticisms centered on these issues outweighs those on serious issues -- women questioning if she brought her newborn home too soon, if she really breastfeeds, if she can manage to do the job of VP and be a mother, if she should even consider it with 5 kids, if she's really pretty or just mildly attractive, if she's pretending to be a supermom, which is going to make the rest of us look bad -- these are all lines of discussion on this site -- serisously.

I think these lines of attack have done all women a disservice and that is what I have been most angered by personally. Inquiries into her experience, her knowlegde and her judgment are 100% fair and relevant, but they have been overshadowed by the petty, judgmental and overly hostile attacks.