Pro Choice Dem for Palin

[Anonymous]

OP, this is for you. You're not the only one:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/157555/page/1

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:What price did Biden pay for his plagiarism, which I might add was about his personal narrative? Stealing a whole narrative (which did not even make sense) to describe your own personal history is so pathetic. And most of his rantings are gratuitous -- just watch the Alito or Roberts hearings - he made a fool of himself.

Oh, and shocker that he has not tried to define himself around his lies about his wife's accident or his plagiarism. Ridiculous.

First of all, the plagiarism wasn't a whole narrative, it was a few lines and they actually were factually accurate when applied to Biden. After the plagiarism was revealed, Biden withdrew from the presidential campaign. That is the price he paid. I would consider Palin's dropping out to be satisfactory atonement for her lies.

The death of his wife was a defining moment in his life and rightfully should be included in any narrative. You would have to be particularly obtuse to believe otherwise. I just read the one article linked above about Biden's suggesting that the other driver in the accident was drunk. Based on that article, its not clear that Biden knows or not whether the driver was drunk. Therefore it is equally likely that this is a misunderstanding rather than a gratuitous falsehood.

At any rate, I am prepared to say that I know enough about Biden's experience and qualifications that I can overlook decades-old transgressions. Palin has not presented a convincing picture of her qualifications and her experience is almost nil. The fact that she has been marketed on the basis of a pack of lies is not reassuring and not as easily overlooked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They actually had a piece on the Today show today that noted that Alaska has one of the most liberal abortion laws in the country and she did nothing to try to change that. I like her too. Yes, she's inexperienced...but so is Obama. Obama and McCain both scare me for opposite reasons. I wish there was a choice c.

And if we're going to harp on Palin's "lies", is anyone going to mention Biden's plagiaristic past, or the fact that he lied on more than one occasion by saying his wife and daughter were killed by a drunk driver? How do you think that made the innocent man's family feel? So nobody's perfect.

On the way to work this am-I thought I heard that Alaska is trying to push legislation that would make late term abortion a federal offense. Not that I'm a fan of late term abortion-but I am pro-choice.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
Biden was found to have plagarized in law school and lied about it during the 1987 Bork hearings. Here is an NYT story about it, published in 1987:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE5DD173BF934A2575AC0A961948260

Here is another New York Times story, published in 1989 stating that Biden was cleared by the Delaware Supreme Court of plagiarizing in law school.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE1DD1230F93AA15756C0A96F948260&scp=15&sq=Biden%20plagiarism&st=cse

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:
The death of his wife was a defining moment in his life and rightfully should be included in any narrative.

At any rate, I am prepared to say that I know enough about Biden's experience and qualifications that I can overlook decades-old transgressions.

Of course the death of his wife is appropriate to talk about in any narrative. Lying about it in a heinous way is not appropriate -- and check your facts - it was not just once before he knew the facts. Get real.

You are obviously prepared to overlook anything and everything about your ticket. It's clear you're content to be uninformed and unobjective -- a true believer. Just don't obsess about the lame eBay issue and then dismiss lying by your guy.

[Anonymous]

OP, I think your point about dems not being able to recognize a good repub has some truth but would add an important qualification: it's very much a mutual thing (how many times have you hear the demo party referred to with dripping contempt as 'the democrat party,' wow isn't that witty)

[Anonymous]

Whatever the relative merits of Biden and Palin, I think it's fair to focus more attention on Palin, since if elected vp she's MUCH more likely to become potus than is Biden.

[Anonymous]

OP Here 9:47 thanks for the link. I loved the article and noted author was on the five year plan at Minnesota. I also did the five year (working several part time jobs at a time) plan at a midwestern public university. I think this is an interesting part of Palin's appeal-- although her culture warrior appeal as pro-life is lost on me, I LOVE the challenge to the closed minded ivy league elite set.

Folks calling her unqualified over and over but making excuses for Obama's qualifications are really saying "but he went to Hah-vard" which is a mentality that has been killing the democratic party for the last eight years.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Biden was found to have plagarized in law school and lied about it during the 1987 Bork hearings. Here is an NYT story about it, published in 1987:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE5DD173BF934A2575AC0A961948260

Here is another New York Times story, published in 1989 stating that Biden was cleared by the Delaware Supreme Court of plagiarizing in law school.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE1DD1230F93AA15756C0A96F948260&scp=15&sq=Biden%20plagiarism&st=cse

You didn't provide the link.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
You are obviously prepared to overlook anything and everything about your ticket. It's clear you're content to be uninformed and unobjective -- a true believer. Just don't obsess about the lame eBay issue and then dismiss lying by your guy.

I'm not obsessing about a single issue -- eBay or otherwise. In almost every message I have hit on multiple issues. The primary issue is that Palin has not presented an honest picture of who she is.

She did not say "no thanks" to the "Bridge to Nowhere".

She did not work for earmark reform -- rather she hired a lobbyist while mayor to get something like $28 million for a population of less than 6,000.

As Governor, she requested earmarks that were the highest per capita in the nation.

She is embroiled in an abuse of power ethics scandal.

She left the town of Wasilla buried in debt.

She has a history of firing government officials for personal reasons.

She did not sell her plane on eBay and she did not even fire the governor's chef.

She is almost the exact opposite of how she has been portrayed. Biden, while he plagiarized, was still accurate in what he said. His statements about an alleged drunk driver killing his wife are a problem -- but as I said, its not clear that he knows the truth. He may honestly have believed what he said. Palin cannot possibly believe the entire false narrative that has been created for her.

[Anonymous]

PP 10:18
I accept your premise that Obama and Palin can both be seen as inexperienced (and to about the same degree, imho). However, I think you're reaching for an easy way out when you attribute the views of those who prefer Obama to snobbery. When I listen to Obama, I hear someone who's thoughtful, relatively respectful of different points of view, and whose mental map I can understand; when I listen (admittedly, only the RNC and a few youtube videos) I hear sarcasm (which I guess some think is the soul of wit) and bluster....kind of like w, if you ask me. At any rate, you are wrong to imply that it's just about background (I couldn't give a fudge where either went to school).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was totally ready to vote for McCain, so my current anybody-except-the-GOP position is NOT about 'the Republican thing.' For me, a non-partisan, it's about

1) her religious views, esp the *slightly* too convenient idea that God supports Palin's policy positions

2) her lack of qualification

3) her style: belligerent and snide from my pov, obviously others (like those mysterious people who said they'd like to have a beer with george bush) feel differently...vive la difference

4) the people who do support her: the rabid right is apparently totally psyched about her, which isn't dispositive for me but is a strong signal

It might be that as I learn more in the next few weeks I'll drift back toward McCain, but Palin has pushed me from lean-McCain to sit-in-Obama's-lap. And at least wrt my vote, the original post could not be more wrong.

You know what's ironic? I won't vote for Obama even if he does part the sea and change the direction of the Nile because I can't stand his far left hypocritical, loud mouth base. You got an immediate congratulations for your point, I had the wolves attack.

I hate to break it to you, but many people who support her and McCain are actually middle of the road like myself: pro-choice (though its really not a voting issues for me), pro-death penalty, and pro small government.

Of course since generally DCUM leans so far left, its practically falling off the map, you really don't catch many posters who don't always vote the party line. This is apparent in the devoted disciples that come out of the woodworks for Biden and defend his stories claiming he "simply did not know".

[Anonymous]

Well said, PP.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous}

On the way to work this am-I thought I heard that Alaska is trying to push legislation that would make late term abortion a federal offense. Not that I'm a fan of late term abortion-but I am pro-choice.

Curious story. Alaska can't make late term abortion a federal offense. It could only make it a state offense. And because of Roe & Doe, any late term ban would require a health exception which includes emotional and pyschological health.

[Anonymous]

Hmm, esteemed PP.

First, I said I was previously inclined to vote McCain myself...it's unclear from your blast whether you include me in Obama's 'far left hypocritical, loud mouth base,' but if I am in that group I must have been one of the few inclined to vote McCain.

Second, I have no idea what you mean by 'I had the wolves attack.' Is this a Palin reference?

Third, my point about Palin supporters was much more specific than your response implies--specific, that is, to the rabid right (admittedly I didn't define terms, let's just say Rush Limbaugh and you can extrapolate from there). AND as I said I can agree with the rabid right, it's just that my prior probability of doing so is low (their support of Palin is not dispositive for me, just a strong signal).

So, good to you for being someone who supports McCain. Perhaps if you would read, think, and write a little more carefully, your posts would seem less like rants.