Expecting too much from K (and school)?

[Anonymous]

OP, it sounds like you were at an extraordinarily bad preschool-daycare. I imagine it is hard not to be wary of the next school when you had a negative experience like you have described.

[Anonymous]

I read something like this from a paper a long long time ago -- dont ask people around whether your kid is genius (or extra-ordinary)or not because people will TELL you if he/she is. so let's all step back assuming and hoping that our kids are normal kids. because if they are not, teachers/friends will tell you.

that's the case with my rising 3rd-grade son. I recalled during our first parent-teacher conf last year, the teacher asked me if I have heard of GT/AAP program or not. he said that my son would be better served in the AAP center. of course, my son will start his new school next month.

I also remembered when my son started his kindergarten year, he was not as advanced as several of his pre-school classmates. and they all went to the same kindergarten class. but at the end of the kindergarten year, my son was getting to the top of his class.

I am happy just to see a GOOD/nice, happy, and healthy (physically and mentally) kid. if he ends up being a very successful person, I will cheer for him. nobody, except your parents maybe, would remember how good you were when you were a kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Ok, true to a point. But brand new teachers cycle through all the time and have not seen "hundreds of kindergartners." I say this coming from the other end of the spectrum when my high IQ, low performing DS was labeled "a little careless." This year after year of me trying to point out to teachers that something didn't seem right (re high ability vs relatively low performance). Everyone (teachers and administrators) gave me the brush off and to my utter dismay I backed off. Sure enough, come high school and we learn of major gaps in knowledge, learning disabilities, etc. I feel as though a good teacher (perhaps with less than 30 kids in her class) might have been able to provide more insight and get to know my kid a little better or at least say, yeah, something seems off. I'm also incredibly frustrated with myself for trying not to be the PITA and backing off.

This has been exactly my experience....I did get private testing eventually, which the school was surprised by, but again they were not willing to do anything about. They could not figure out why my DS was not motivated by their wonderful environment. We moved to private school - my DS is night and day. He is so much happier.

Glad it worked out for your DS. We finally made the switch in HS. Thank God!

[Anonymous]

Ok-- I am going to preface this by saying my response will be harsh. Partly because it is an anonymous message board and I hear parents like you all of the time and I need to vent. I wish I could tell all of the parents I get saying how advanced their children are and worried they will be bored in school.

Chill out lady. School has not even started. If you start with the thought that she will be bored that is all you will see from now on.

You probably didn't get a warm and fuzzy feeling from the principal because you are the 10th new K parent coming to him today and saying you think your child will need a more stimulating classroom before school has even started. As you mentioned, you realize that K is more than just phonics and number sense. It is about building community, taking turns, learning to lose at tictactoe, and realizing you can't be line leader everyday. Academically there is always a VERY wide range of levels especially at the beginning of the year. As trite as it sounds, five year olds truly are sponges and around January almost all of them are at around the same level in most subjects. Another great think about a kindergarten classroom is that it is about discovery. Your DD may end up being the expert in reading, think of the self confidence she will gain when she gets to "help" a child next to her sound out a few words. And how exciting it will be for your DC when another child helps her figure out "sink or float" problems!!

When I get a child like yours in my class the hardest thing we do is work on waiting her turn. they are so excited to know it that they yell out before other children get a chance to figure it out. She will come home and say "Ms. X never calls on me! But I know the answer" -- and she is right, the teacher will not call on her because she would have already called out. A good teacher in any grade level will work with every student to nurture their strengths and build up their weaknesses. I don't know of any classroom where every child is working on the same reading level/math level in small groups. Trust the educators.

More than likely DD WILL come home and say she is bored -- esp if you have mentioned this possibility around her (To DH, family friends etc, she hears it and will repeat it without even knowing what it means. She will also come home and say they didn;t do anything in school today. She will also say she "played" at school today which will infuriate you and make you go back to the principal and vent to anyone who will listen "Little Susie is so far ahead of her peers all she does is play and is bored! I don't know what to do..." etc etc.

I have had parents ask that thier DC go to 4th grade for math, skip 1sy and 2nd and go straight to 3rd because they can read at a higher level. Even ask if DC can go to 6th grade (when language options begin) because she is so far ahead in Spanish (which is part of the K-5 curriculum) and they would like her to learn french as well.


If you truly think this school is not the best fit for her, look elsewhere but it will be the same -- even in private schools. If you really want her to continue to be "pushed" at this young age, I suggest hiring tutors or doing online classes. However, in my professional opinion (15 years in kindergarten in both FCPS and Private schools in addition to graduate degrees in Child development and curriculum development) I suggest waiting until at LEAST January or February before making any decisions. You want her to love school and WANt to learn. I have seen too many "gifted children" get burnt out before 2nd grade because of all the supplemental instruction they get outside of the classroom. There is a reason GT does not start until 3rd grade. And YES YES YES -- stick with your gut and do NOT go to the principal or teachers again. Because you don't want that persona as a "pushy parent" before kindergarten even starts. Instead -- wait for parent teacher conferences when I am sure the teacher will praise DC and mention her intelligence to you without you even having to bring it up.

I treat my students like the most important people in the world, because I know that they are to you. I love them like my own and get as excited for their accomplishments as you do. I understand with a first child and first public school experience that may be hard to see, but I promise your child will be loved, encouraged, celebrated and challenged at school -- if you will just let the teachers do their jobs.

When should children attending school expect teaching commensurate with their ability, aptitude and accomplishments?

K. 1st Grade, 2nd Grade, 5th Grade, 11th Grade or College?

One size does not fit all. As a teacher myself, I have encountered many 5-yr-olds that read and know their multiplication tables backwards and forwards. I have also encountered many 5-year-olds who can't read or count to 20. To presume both groups deserve the same intellectual and academic diet is pure folly and simply ludicrous.

[Anonymous]

They are supposed to start differentiated math in Kindergarten more formally starting this year meaning that all kindergarteners are supposed to be able to learn the standard 1st grade math curriculum (see info below). This is perfect for my DC who is learning at the end of what seems to be the standard kindergarten curriculum upon entering kindergarten. Your child seems much more advanced than probably even the 1st grade level, but perhaps a year of review would be good and then they could provide some extensions as well.

I've heard several principals say that several children read chapter books, so your child should find some company there too at most FCPS schools. Also, it is easier for a child to pick up a book at their level verses doing math which is why I'm glad they added this starting in K.

Like you, I would like some advanced materials made available but also keep the fun stuff that comes along during kindergarten like play acting, playing games, etc. and hopefully some exciting academic stuff like starting writing, learning about animals, the world, etc. I'm sure there is only so much the teachers can do, but it sounds like FCPS is at least trying to address differentiation a bit at the Kindergarten level.

From the FCPS website (fcps.edu/Departments/Instructional Services/Curriculum/ES Math).

The new 2009 Virginia Department of Education (VDOE) mathematics standards will be fully implemented in the 2011-2012 school year. With the implementation of the new standards Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS) is aligning the new Elementary Mathematics Instructional Sequence (EMIS) with these standards. EMIS will allow all students to access the advanced mathematics curriculum either in an advanced mathematics classroom or in a general education classroom through differentiation. The new instructional sequence provides teachers with the tools needed for differentiation. EMIS offers multiple entry points for students to access the advanced mathematics curriculum when they have developed the cognitive skills to be successful. Advanced mathematics extended indicators and above grade level correlated standards will be available for students as early as kindergarten and will build a stronger foundation in mathematics.

The compacted mathematics curriculum is being enriched and expanded to include extensions that allow students to develop critical thinking skills and develop a deeper understanding of mathematics that will better prepare them for upper level mathematics in high school and beyond. The current learning gaps that exist in compacted mathematics, created by selecting only certain standards, are being closed allowing students access to all standards. Compacted mathematics will become Advanced Mathematics to be more representative of the rigor in the program. The Advanced Mathematics curriculum will be available in all elementary schools including Advanced Academic Center schools. Teachers received further information from Instructional Services staff during their staff development day on February 1. For further details, contact Gloria Allen in Instructional Services ([e-mail]).

http://www.fcps.edu/DIS/OEIAS/math/math.htm

[Anonymous]

Also, if you can afford it, you could consider Montessori or another private school for the K year and transfer in 1st grade. Many children do this and then they still have 6 years together. I've heard 1st grade has more differentiation. Most Montessori schools will definitely meet your child at least close to the level she's at. Some are better than others though and many are probably full by now so you'd have to look around. They are usually willing to take 5 year olds though especially this year because of the whole full day switch and if they are bright and you're ok with them teaching their way. Personally I think it would be better to make this decision before starting rather than pulling your child out if you want to go back there in 1st grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, if you can afford it, you could consider Montessori or another private school for the K year and transfer in 1st grade. Many children do this and then they still have 6 years together. I've heard 1st grade has more differentiation. Most Montessori schools will definitely meet your child at least close to the level she's at. Some are better than others though and many are probably full by now so you'd have to look around. They are usually willing to take 5 year olds though especially this year because of the whole full day switch and if they are bright and you're ok with them teaching their way. Personally I think it would be better to make this decision before starting rather than pulling your child out if you want to go back there in 1st grade.

I second the idea of montessori. DD learns to read, write, add, subtract and multiply after two years in her montessori school. We are keeping her there for kindergarten. No reason to take away her learning opportunity. We also think that montessori is particularly suitable for self motivated kids.

[Anonymous]

As much as it is PC to say that schools meet every child's needs, sometimes they don't. They are obligated by law to provide for students with special needs outlined in IEPs but there is nothing to address young gifted students. My son was very much ahead of most of his peers when he started K (he was reading at a 4th grade level when K started) but there were a few other kids in K in the same boat. The same thing will most likely be true in your school esp in this area. It is easier to ignore one child but if there are a handful of kids who are far ahead of their peers, teachers will address it. My son learned a lot this year and most of it wasn't academic so K was very important for him. His teacher mentioned sending him to first for reading but I said no. He would've been ahead of those kids too so I didn't see the point. I would wait until conferences this fall to meet with your DD's teacher. As a teacher myself, you will earn yourself a reputation as a PITA parent if you make demands right away before the teacher has even started assessing everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As much as it is PC to say that schools meet every child's needs, sometimes they don't. They are obligated by law to provide for students with special needs outlined in IEPs but there is nothing to address young gifted students. My son was very much ahead of most of his peers when he started K (he was reading at a 4th grade level when K started) but there were a few other kids in K in the same boat. The same thing will most likely be true in your school esp in this area. It is easier to ignore one child but if there are a handful of kids who are far ahead of their peers, teachers will address it. My son learned a lot this year and most of it wasn't academic so K was very important for him. His teacher mentioned sending him to first for reading but I said no. He would've been ahead of those kids too so I didn't see the point. I would wait until conferences this fall to meet with your DD's teacher. As a teacher myself, you will earn yourself a reputation as a PITA parent if you make demands right away before the teacher has even started assessing everyone.

No OP but thank you for a sane post. Can we please lock this thread?

[Anonymous]

Perhaps there is no law requiring teachers to teach young children who are ahead academically, but if FCPS says advanced mathematics will be made available for all elementary students including kindergarteners this year and goes to the trouble of advertising this and creating a public power point about it, then they should stick to what they say for all schools.

I have friends in more rural areas like Upstate New York and it is common for children in kindergarten to go to 1st grade for reading, math, etc. and then come back to the kindergarten class I guess due to the fact that they just don't have the population like the DC area. and their cutoff is the end of December so there are some not quite five year olds in 1st grade reading classes. Europe is all over the map as well with children starting 1st grade anywhere from age 5 to 7. Public school is not going to be perfect for every child, but the schools that do try to help each child both at the bottom, middle, and upper spectrum and not work to the lowest common denominator tend to be the better programs. And with small groups and small to medium classroom sizes, this is possible.

[Anonymous]

Perhaps there is no law requiring teachers to teach young children who are ahead academically, but if FCPS says advanced mathematics will be made available for all elementary students including kindergarteners this year and goes to the trouble of advertising this and creating a public power point about it, then they should stick to this and implement it in all schools.

I have friends in more rural areas and it is common for children in kindergarten to go to 1st grade for reading, math, etc. and then come back to the kindergarten class and some t I guess due to the fact that they just don't have the population like the DC area and their cutoff is the end of December so there are some not quite five year olds in 1st grade reading classes. In Europe many countries also start 1st grade at age 5-6 instead of age 6-7. And they do this while incorporating life and social skills into their curriculum for all years verses America where the curriculum seems to go from being very social skills driven to very academic quickly. Public school is not going to be perfect for every child, but the schools that do try to help each child where they are and not work to the lowest common denominator tend to be the better programs. With smaller classroom sizes and small group teaching, this is possible.

[Anonymous]

These days, public schools tend NOT to have small class sizes. And I think the counties are revising their advanced math offerings in elementary school.

[Anonymous]

OP -- to cut back to your original post... I don't think you need to worry too much about the K experience for your daughter. My impression is that the teachers will try to tailor the curriculum somewhat.

My daughter just finished K this past year in Fairfax county public school. I volunteered one day a week and got to know the kids and see what they were doing for some part of the day. By the end of the year, for some activities they were separating the kids into ability levels... for example, I'd be doing a reading activity and I'd get one group that would race through paragraphs with no problems... then another group that could hardly get through a complete sentence without help. A few of the "fast reader group" kids also mentioned that they are part of an advanced reading group.

Plus, the curriculum is very complex and adaptable... and in depth in many ways that I never imagined for K. So for example, reading is just the beginning... when they do a reading activity, they also do additional activities that look at how well they comprehend the material, can they explain it back to you, can they relate the stories to other things, etc.

However, if it concerns you you need to keep involved... talk to the teachers and request meetings whenever you can. Our school has a reading specialist -- so if yours has one, make an appointment with her to talk about your daughter and what can be done to support her at her level. If you are able to, volunteer if you can so that you can see how things work and what is being taught. I do think that with public school -- even at the best -- you do need to be a bit more involved and proactive because classes are large and the one on one is just not there. If you think your child needs something, it would be best to point it out and explore it with the teachers as the schools have many resources available that you might not even know about.

That said, don't worry too much about it now... unless you see her not thriving in the environment.