Expecting too much from K (and school)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:woah woah woah OP --- I am the kindergarten teacher who responded this morning. This thread seems to have pushed a lot of buttons on both sides. I don't think anyone is trying to attack you, but you are putting up a very abrasive self defense mechanism by negating every bit of advice people are offering you.

Although it could have been put differently you are definitely giving off the sense that you know better than anyone and you are looking for specific answers -- If other parents get this vibe from you at school you are in for a miserable year. Sadly the "mean girl" thing doesn't end with HS and I have had more than one year where I had to call the MOTHERS in to discuss appropriate behavior regarding treatment of each other. The "Keeping up with the jones'" runs rapid in K ("Sara can read Harry Potter!, Max knows long division! John's golf instructor says he's the next tiger woods!") -- thankfully it settles down for a few years before it gets really bad in HS! Everyone wants to prove they are ready for K, and everyone is scared that everyone else is ahead in one way or another. Take everything with a grain of salt -- a 5 yr old is a 5 yr old

I am not saying what the principal said to you was right. Most principals do not have experience teaching every grade and sometimes "fudge" their answers with parents. They hardly ever know what goes on every single day in every single grade. And usually only know a basic outline of how individual teachers deal with varying ability levels. I would talk to the teachers directly to see how their classroom works -- or better yet wait and see for yourself! You may be pleasantly surprised

But what I think the bottomline is that we are trying to make clear (both to you and the many lurkers who I am sure are reading this with your same exact concern) is that it is the beginning of august. Your DD has not even met her new teachers. The first month of school is settling into routines, so you will not truly know how DD is fairing until probably mid october at the very earliest.

I understand you are under a lot of stress -- whether you want to admit it or not. Your baby is going to big kid school! It is a scary and exciting time and you want to make sure that the love of your life has a great time and learns a lot and becomes the best she can be. No one faults you for that! But when you write lengthy posts about how we are all wrong and you are right when we are just trying to help -- everyone becomes defensive and the nice gloves come off!

There is no doubt in my mind that your DD is exceptional. I think she will go into a classroom being able to read when others can't and at times be "bored" when reviewing phonics the first weeks of school. But I am certain she will thrive in a loving and nurturing Kindergarten environment and it will be a great year... if you allow it to be.

Please PLEASE be open minded as you instructed me to be (BTW commenting you hope your DD isn't in my class hurt MY feelings even on an annoymous message board- ouch! you don't know me just as I don't know you!) But it goes to show that it is easy to jump to conclusions and become defensive very quickly. And infact -- I wish your daughter would be in my class (no chance of that, I teach at a private school) but I would love the opportunity to show you that teachers are constantly surprised and impressed with their students and their opinions are never set in stone. (I would go into fantastic examples but this is already too long!)

Going into school already looking for "mean bitches" and thinking the principal isn't doing the things you think he should and the kids in DD are boring her, you will see everything in a bad light the entire year and that will be doing a disservice to the school, the teacher and most importantly your daughter.

I wish you the best of luck. FCPS are some of the best in the country and I think you will be pleasantly surprised. I hope you update us at the end of the school year

Thank you for your return response. I did have what I feel is bad experience with the preschool director calling me a liar when I suggested reading as an activity for my DC during nap times (since she doesn't nap any longer). Then to be treated harshly when she discovered she could read was not a pleasant experience. Her particular teacher is really great and seems to disagree with the director who just likes to spout off her degrees to me.

Add to that mix several friends who discuss their Montessori preschool programs and describe activities the kids are doing. Particularly when they are allowed to move at an accelerated or decelerated pace in different areas of learning I started to think maybe we should have put more thought into her preschool. I had no intentions of calling the school as I just assumed that she would settle into K just fine and if she needed more accelerated work in some areas it would be accommodated. These same friends (most who have older kids in FCPS e-schools as well, but not in the particular school we are attending) are telling me that I better talk to someone at the school this summer or in their experiences she will not get her needs met. They didn't just tell me once, they were becoming annoying about it so I reluctantly called and was really thrown with the principal's response. That's really when I started to wonder if I should be concerned. The friends then started telling about DRA (?) levels and differentiation (which I knew nothing about in the schools) and telling me to ask about those as well.

I appreciate your description of the principal/teacher relationship because I can liken it to my relationship to my boss. Knows the big picture and generalities, doesn't always know the day to day process I use, and fudges the answer to save face when asked a question he's not 100% sure about.

I did get defensive particularly when called a liar, an idiot, and a pushy, helicopter mom. We never felt like we pushed her and only provided her with opportunities to continue learning in areas that she was interested in and we saw she wanted to learn more. We provide these same games, tools, etc to our youngest one and let him lead the way as well.

I'm a scientist and don't know anything about child development (aside from what little I read) or teaching, but was so thrown with my experiences with her preschool director and then the response from the principal that I started to question if I should be doing more for her.

So, my friends be damned, I will head your advice and see what happens after the first few months of K and then assess from there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: So, my friends be damned, I will head your advice and see what happens after the first few months of K and then assess from there.

OP, I think you should take your own good advice here. Your friends are probably right in that large public schools really can't provide the incredible level of differentiation to those at the very top and very bottom of the class. You do need, when appropriate, to advocate for your own child. However, you really don't yet know if you will need to do so. Right now it's the great unknown. As many PPs (including the very articulate teacher) stated, give it until Halloween. Let your DD, her teacher and her class settle in before you truly evaluate what's working and if something isn't. This is why the concept of a parent-teacher conference is so valuable.

It might be that she needs private school. Or that come 3rd grade she tests into FCPS's gifted and talented program. Or, that she's at the top of her class but not so far ahead that she isn't being challenged. Or, that she's a normal run of the mill kid. I'm actually in the middle of a chapter in Nurtureshock talking about kids labeled as gifted. Bottom line up front -- kids who are advanced in PS or K aren't always the ones who are truly gifted by 3rd or 4th grade.

Your heart is in the right place. Your brain needs to take a deep breath (and I mean that kindly, honest!).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok-- I am going to preface this by saying my response will be harsh. Partly because it is an anonymous message board and I hear parents like you all of the time and I need to vent. I wish I could tell all of the parents I get saying how advanced their children are and worried they will be bored in school.

Chill out lady. School has not even started. If you start with the thought that she will be bored that is all you will see from now on.

You probably didn't get a warm and fuzzy feeling from the principal because you are the 10th new K parent coming to him today and saying you think your child will need a more stimulating classroom before school has even started. As you mentioned, you realize that K is more than just phonics and number sense. It is about building community, taking turns, learning to lose at tictactoe, and realizing you can't be line leader everyday. Academically there is always a VERY wide range of levels especially at the beginning of the year. As trite as it sounds, five year olds truly are sponges and around January almost all of them are at around the same level in most subjects. Another great think about a kindergarten classroom is that it is about discovery. Your DD may end up being the expert in reading, think of the self confidence she will gain when she gets to "help" a child next to her sound out a few words. And how exciting it will be for your DC when another child helps her figure out "sink or float" problems!!

When I get a child like yours in my class the hardest thing we do is work on waiting her turn. they are so excited to know it that they yell out before other children get a chance to figure it out. She will come home and say "Ms. X never calls on me! But I know the answer" -- and she is right, the teacher will not call on her because she would have already called out. A good teacher in any grade level will work with every student to nurture their strengths and build up their weaknesses. I don't know of any classroom where every child is working on the same reading level/math level in small groups. Trust the educators.

More than likely DD WILL come home and say she is bored -- esp if you have mentioned this possibility around her (To DH, family friends etc, she hears it and will repeat it without even knowing what it means. She will also come home and say they didn;t do anything in school today. She will also say she "played" at school today which will infuriate you and make you go back to the principal and vent to anyone who will listen "Little Susie is so far ahead of her peers all she does is play and is bored! I don't know what to do..." etc etc.

I have had parents ask that thier DC go to 4th grade for math, skip 1sy and 2nd and go straight to 3rd because they can read at a higher level. Even ask if DC can go to 6th grade (when language options begin) because she is so far ahead in Spanish (which is part of the K-5 curriculum) and they would like her to learn french as well.


If you truly think this school is not the best fit for her, look elsewhere but it will be the same -- even in private schools. If you really want her to continue to be "pushed" at this young age, I suggest hiring tutors or doing online classes. However, in my professional opinion (15 years in kindergarten in both FCPS and Private schools in addition to graduate degrees in Child development and curriculum development) I suggest waiting until at LEAST January or February before making any decisions. You want her to love school and WANt to learn. I have seen too many "gifted children" get burnt out before 2nd grade because of all the supplemental instruction they get outside of the classroom. There is a reason GT does not start until 3rd grade. And YES YES YES -- stick with your gut and do NOT go to the principal or teachers again. Because you don't want that persona as a "pushy parent" before kindergarten even starts. Instead -- wait for parent teacher conferences when I am sure the teacher will praise DC and mention her intelligence to you without you even having to bring it up.

I treat my students like the most important people in the world, because I know that they are to you. I love them like my own and get as excited for their accomplishments as you do. I understand with a first child and first public school experience that may be hard to see, but I promise your child will be loved, encouraged, celebrated and challenged at school -- if you will just let the teachers do their jobs.

Applause!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

I stopped reading at page 2 so forgive me if this has already been discussed. I say just let your dc enjoy her day at school and try to supplement at home to give her some challenge. It would be wonderful to homeschool her but that clearly is not an option for your family right now.

Pack a book for her to read during the reading time in class. Speak with her teacher or send her an email about a month after school has begun to give your daughter time to adjust and the teacher the time to get to know your dc. See if you can send in your own worksheets for her to do if she finishes her regular work way before the other kids.

You can get some cheap math and language art workbooks at Barnes and Noble and she can work on them in the car or while waiting for dinner, etc. It doesn't have to be long, 15 minutes a day would be enough.

She knows a lot and that's great! She's still young though and it may get more difficult to find books that are challenging yet that still have age appropriate content. You can still work on more advanced math, but there will still be a point where she will need to slow down.

[Anonymous]

1. I kept waiting for someone to call OP's DD a "special snowflake". You have all really let me down today.

2. We have been at two different FCPS schools and each of my kids received differentiated instruction in K via the AART. You may want to find out who that is at your school. Differentiated instruction does exist at that level, but I think you really need to start managing your expectations.

[Anonymous]

My two special snowflakes are rising to 1st and 3rd grade, and I have to tell you that I have been BLOWN AWAY at every turn by the quality of education (individual attention, appropriate differentiation) that they have received at FCPS. Also, there is a reason the GT program starts in 3rd grade . . . the kids tend to even out in second grade (when they're GT tested). We had a kid in my DD's kindergarten who could add five digit numbers in his head, but by second grade, he was pretty average. Everyone is shocked when they learn which kids get into the GT classes in 3rd grade. So lighten up, and enjoy you child's precocious years (for as long as it lasts).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I did get defensive particularly when called a liar, an idiot, and a pushy, helicopter mom.

Sometimes, the truth hurts OP. You described your self to a "T" right here.

I pity the teacher who gets stuck with you - the principal has already informated the teacher about you - and the other parents.

Believe it or not OP, your special snowflake will be one of many in K ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I did get defensive particularly when called a liar, an idiot, and a pushy, helicopter mom.

Sometimes, the truth hurts OP. You described your self to a "T" right here.

I pity the teacher who gets stuck with you - the principal has already informated the teacher about you - and the other parents.

Believe it or not OP, your special snowflake will be one of many in K ...

I pity your children who are stuck with a bitch for a mother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I did get defensive particularly when called a liar, an idiot, and a pushy, helicopter mom.

Sometimes, the truth hurts OP. You described your self to a "T" right here.

I pity the teacher who gets stuck with you - the principal has already informated the teacher about you - and the other parents.

Believe it or not OP, your special snowflake will be one of many in K ...

I pity your children who are stuck with a bitch for a mother.

You know what, let me apologize for the comment above. I'm sorry that this thread has brought me down to your level. I am not that type of person in real life. I posted a sincere question which has now given me a glimpse into the possible insanity of e-school and makes me want to run the other way. I did recieve some genuine responses which I appreciate, but then was called names for stating facts and my experiences.

I just don't understand how sad your life must be to go on a parenting board and call people names, particurlarly a liar. If I was going to lie about everything to brag and make myself feel good, wouldn't I have made all of my DC special snowflakes? I really, really just hope that the parents in her school are nothing like most of you.

To the teacher and other constructive posters, thank you for taking the time to post. Please know that I was defensive only because of my limited experiences with preschool, the influence of well-meaning friends, and then being called a liar. Each school is different and every teacher is different, so I will see what this school experience holds for my DC before passing judgement. My friends are all within FCPS, but scattered throughout the county so my experience may be very different.

[Anonymous]

have you looked into one of the county's language immersion schools? could be a new type of challenge for her.

[Anonymous]

Welcome to DC Urban Moms. This is where you can learn what all those smiling parents at back-to-school night are REALLY thinking. Don't worry, they will rarely if ever speak to you this way in person. Just take a look at the GT appeals thread if you want to see how bad the name calling can get (complete with threats of lawsiuts for cyber-libel). Cheers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:have you looked into one of the county's language immersion schools? could be a new type of challenge for her.

It would be rather hard to get in at this point for K. The applications were due several months ago, and we have already been through 2 rounds of acceptance/wait listings. My daughter moved from #24 on the original wait list to #16 at the school closest to us. There are only 4 that start in K anyway - and YOU have to drive your child as there is no bus service for out of boundary students. If this is of ANY interest to you for this year, you'd need to call the individual schools (Lake Anne in Reston, London Towne in Centreville, Bailey's in Falls Church or Rose Hill in Alexandria) as they are now in control of the registration lists for this program.

There are several that start at the 1st grade level, so maybe you can wait until then?

http://www.fcps.edu/DIS/OHSICS/forlang/partial.htm
Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Anonymous]

OP, I feel your pain. My DD was similar to yours, although your DD is a bit ahead in reading vs. where mine was.

Unlike many of the PPs, I did find that our FCPS ES had a hard time differentiating for a child who was above grade level in grades K-2. We are not in a Langley pyramid type area and are in a school where there are majority ESL learners. The teachers are fabulous, wonderful people BUT their main concern and goal is getting children who are below grade level up to speed. My DD was left pretty much to coast. It was not until third grade and she entered the AAP program that she began to get real challenges. And yes, those years were hard for her. She was bored out of her mind much of the day. Unlike what the PP say, I think being in this situation made it harder for her socially because she was at loose ends a lot of the time and ended up being disruptive. Note, not all teachers will allow a child to bring a book from home to read during class time. Her K teacher was good and she liked K. But her first grade teacher was a brand new teacher and had terrible class management skills and did not know what to do with DD. There were so many ESL kids and behavior issues (and I mean serious issues) in her class that she was really overwhelmed. Her fabulous second grade treacher did allow her to bring books from home and gave her other math work to do. But alas, then that teacher went on maternity leave and we were left with the draconian teacher from hell as a long term sub.

But the good news is that in grades 3+, things got much better. And like you OP, I quickly learned to keep these concerns to myself.

Good luck this year and I hope that your DD has a good year.

[Anonymous]

OP, I'm a mother of a rising K as well. He is my oldest and this whole transition to school makes me a little anxious as well.

Your daughter does sound gifted. She really does.

But you need to take a step back and stop assuming the worst. Go into public K with an open mind. If your daughter is as smart as you say, then she will pick up on your vibe re: the school. You don't want your opinion of the principal, etc. to tarnish her experience.

Honestly, from the opposite side of things, I am one of those parents who worries about students like yours taking up a disproportionate amount of time away from my student. Why? Partly b/c she does sound so advanced that she will need extra instruction to keep her from being "bored", but mostly b/c she clearly has a mother who is VERY VERY active in making sure that HER KID'S NEEDS ARE MET. I feel like teachers have to spend an awful amount of their limited time holding the hands of parents like you. Makes me worried...

[Anonymous]

Ok, true to a point. But brand new teachers cycle through all the time and have not seen "hundreds of kindergartners." I say this coming from the other end of the spectrum when my high IQ, low performing DS was labeled "a little careless." This year after year of me trying to point out to teachers that something didn't seem right (re high ability vs relatively low performance). Everyone (teachers and administrators) gave me the brush off and to my utter dismay I backed off. Sure enough, come high school and we learn of major gaps in knowledge, learning disabilities, etc. I feel as though a good teacher (perhaps with less than 30 kids in her class) might have been able to provide more insight and get to know my kid a little better or at least say, yeah, something seems off. I'm also incredibly frustrated with myself for trying not to be the PITA and backing off.

This has been exactly my experience....I did get private testing eventually, which the school was surprised by, but again they were not willing to do anything about. They could not figure out why my DS was not motivated by their wonderful environment. We moved to private school - my DS is night and day. He is so much happier.