Why do Disney vacationers seem uniquely subjected to social vitriol?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

No, it’s really not but you are determined to dig your heels in. You could just walk up and wait in line.

Yeah and you'll spend hours in line.

I literally used to work for the parks and have a few friends who still do. I know first hand how things that used to be free got pay walled as well as how the company has forced out and outsourced a lot of the former services and experienced employees.

I've had some good days and the park, but it 100% isn't what it used to be.

You used to be able to pick your seat on Southwest but now you can’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

You can roll up to most national parks and state parks and museums on a whim. We visited Colorado National Monument with no queuing and it was spectacular. Have you heard of it? We've visited parks in Ohio and West Virginia and Ontario and Nova Scotia and Georgia without bookings. We've visited WWI battlefields and museums and monuments in France without any problems. We hiked along the Jurassic Coast in England without any bookings.

If you only go to Yosemite or Zion or the Eiffel Tower or the Louvre or the London Eye, or want to travel with a house on wheels, then yes, you probably need to book.

Do you live in Colorado? I don’t so it’s not just a day excursion.

No. But I assume the previous poster doesn't live in Orlando or Paris or Yosemite, so what is your point? We're talking about vacations not day trips. We visited the Colorado park on vacation because it's close to Arches NP.

You can do your unplanned disorganized vacations but it’s not how most people roll. It’s a long way to go without a plan.

There's a difference between booking hotels and checking weather and spending every second on your phone trying to get ride passes and booking dinner reservations 6 months out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

You can roll up to most national parks and state parks and museums on a whim. We visited Colorado National Monument with no queuing and it was spectacular. Have you heard of it? We've visited parks in Ohio and West Virginia and Ontario and Nova Scotia and Georgia without bookings. We've visited WWI battlefields and museums and monuments in France without any problems. We hiked along the Jurassic Coast in England without any bookings.

If you only go to Yosemite or Zion or the Eiffel Tower or the Louvre or the London Eye, or want to travel with a house on wheels, then yes, you probably need to book.

Do you live in Colorado? I don’t so it’s not just a day excursion.

No. But I assume the previous poster doesn't live in Orlando or Paris or Yosemite, so what is your point? We're talking about vacations not day trips. We visited the Colorado park on vacation because it's close to Arches NP.

You can do your unplanned disorganized vacations but it’s not how most people roll. It’s a long way to go without a plan.

There's a difference between booking hotels and checking weather and spending every second on your phone trying to get ride passes and booking dinner reservations 6 months out.

Its not 6 months. You have no clue what you’re talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

No, it’s really not but you are determined to dig your heels in. You could just walk up and wait in line.

Yeah and you'll spend hours in line.

I literally used to work for the parks and have a few friends who still do. I know first hand how things that used to be free got pay walled as well as how the company has forced out and outsourced a lot of the former services and experienced employees.

I've had some good days and the park, but it 100% isn't what it used to be.

You used to be able to pick your seat on Southwest but now you can’t.

Enshittification is everywhere, unfortunately. But Disney really accelerated it post COVID. They closed a ton of guest relations stuff, outsourced a lot of the cool extras, got rid of tiny things like free bread at restaurants and put Fast passes behind a pay wall. They also cut things that made the place magical like the roving puppets, shows, and robots (we had a few in my section).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

No, it’s really not but you are determined to dig your heels in. You could just walk up and wait in line.

Yeah and you'll spend hours in line.

I literally used to work for the parks and have a few friends who still do. I know first hand how things that used to be free got pay walled as well as how the company has forced out and outsourced a lot of the former services and experienced employees.

I've had some good days and the park, but it 100% isn't what it used to be.

You used to be able to pick your seat on Southwest but now you can’t.

Enshittification is everywhere, unfortunately. But Disney really accelerated it post COVID. They closed a ton of guest relations stuff, outsourced a lot of the cool extras, got rid of tiny things like free bread at restaurants and put Fast passes behind a pay wall. They also cut things that made the place magical like the roving puppets, shows, and robots (we had a few in my section).

So don’t go? Nobody is twisting your arm. Europe is packed to the gills too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

You can roll up to most national parks and state parks and museums on a whim. We visited Colorado National Monument with no queuing and it was spectacular. Have you heard of it? We've visited parks in Ohio and West Virginia and Ontario and Nova Scotia and Georgia without bookings. We've visited WWI battlefields and museums and monuments in France without any problems. We hiked along the Jurassic Coast in England without any bookings.

If you only go to Yosemite or Zion or the Eiffel Tower or the Louvre or the London Eye, or want to travel with a house on wheels, then yes, you probably need to book.

Do you live in Colorado? I don’t so it’s not just a day excursion.

No. But I assume the previous poster doesn't live in Orlando or Paris or Yosemite, so what is your point? We're talking about vacations not day trips. We visited the Colorado park on vacation because it's close to Arches NP.

You can do your unplanned disorganized vacations but it’s not how most people roll. It’s a long way to go without a plan.

There's a difference between booking hotels and checking weather and spending every second on your phone trying to get ride passes and booking dinner reservations 6 months out.

Its not 6 months. You have no clue what you’re talking about.

Again, I quite literally used to work for the parks, I kept seasonal status going for a while.

The fact that someone is vehementlh defending the enshittification of Disney and telling someone who was seasonal for years that I don't understand Disney is at least really funny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

No, it’s really not but you are determined to dig your heels in. You could just walk up and wait in line.

Yeah and you'll spend hours in line.

I literally used to work for the parks and have a few friends who still do. I know first hand how things that used to be free got pay walled as well as how the company has forced out and outsourced a lot of the former services and experienced employees.

I've had some good days and the park, but it 100% isn't what it used to be.

You used to be able to pick your seat on Southwest but now you can’t.

Enshittification is everywhere, unfortunately. But Disney really accelerated it post COVID. They closed a ton of guest relations stuff, outsourced a lot of the cool extras, got rid of tiny things like free bread at restaurants and put Fast passes behind a pay wall. They also cut things that made the place magical like the roving puppets, shows, and robots (we had a few in my section).

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

You can roll up to most national parks and state parks and museums on a whim. We visited Colorado National Monument with no queuing and it was spectacular. Have you heard of it? We've visited parks in Ohio and West Virginia and Ontario and Nova Scotia and Georgia without bookings. We've visited WWI battlefields and museums and monuments in France without any problems. We hiked along the Jurassic Coast in England without any bookings.

If you only go to Yosemite or Zion or the Eiffel Tower or the Louvre or the London Eye, or want to travel with a house on wheels, then yes, you probably need to book.

Do you live in Colorado? I don’t so it’s not just a day excursion.

No. But I assume the previous poster doesn't live in Orlando or Paris or Yosemite, so what is your point? We're talking about vacations not day trips. We visited the Colorado park on vacation because it's close to Arches NP.

You can do your unplanned disorganized vacations but it’s not how most people roll. It’s a long way to go without a plan.

There's a difference between booking hotels and checking weather and spending every second on your phone trying to get ride passes and booking dinner reservations 6 months out.

Its not 6 months. You have no clue what you’re talking about.

Again, I quite literally used to work for the parks, I kept seasonal status going for a while.

The fact that someone is vehementlh defending the enshittification of Disney and telling someone who was seasonal for years that I don't understand Disney is at least really funny.

It’s not 6 months. Why are you stuck on that lie?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

You can roll up to most national parks and state parks and museums on a whim. We visited Colorado National Monument with no queuing and it was spectacular. Have you heard of it? We've visited parks in Ohio and West Virginia and Ontario and Nova Scotia and Georgia without bookings. We've visited WWI battlefields and museums and monuments in France without any problems. We hiked along the Jurassic Coast in England without any bookings.

If you only go to Yosemite or Zion or the Eiffel Tower or the Louvre or the London Eye, or want to travel with a house on wheels, then yes, you probably need to book.

Do you live in Colorado? I don’t so it’s not just a day excursion.

No. But I assume the previous poster doesn't live in Orlando or Paris or Yosemite, so what is your point? We're talking about vacations not day trips. We visited the Colorado park on vacation because it's close to Arches NP.

You can do your unplanned disorganized vacations but it’s not how most people roll. It’s a long way to go without a plan.

There's a difference between booking hotels and checking weather and spending every second on your phone trying to get ride passes and booking dinner reservations 6 months out.

Its not 6 months. You have no clue what you’re talking about.

Again, I quite literally used to work for the parks, I kept seasonal status going for a while.

The fact that someone is vehementlh defending the enshittification of Disney and telling someone who was seasonal for years that I don't understand Disney is at least really funny.

It’s not six months.

We went last summer. It’s now 60 days out, but I didn’t bother. I was able to book restaurants and rides each morning, including “hard-to-get”restaurants.

So maybe you know what it used to be like. But things have changed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

You can roll up to most national parks and state parks and museums on a whim. We visited Colorado National Monument with no queuing and it was spectacular. Have you heard of it? We've visited parks in Ohio and West Virginia and Ontario and Nova Scotia and Georgia without bookings. We've visited WWI battlefields and museums and monuments in France without any problems. We hiked along the Jurassic Coast in England without any bookings.

If you only go to Yosemite or Zion or the Eiffel Tower or the Louvre or the London Eye, or want to travel with a house on wheels, then yes, you probably need to book.

Do you live in Colorado? I don’t so it’s not just a day excursion.

No. But I assume the previous poster doesn't live in Orlando or Paris or Yosemite, so what is your point? We're talking about vacations not day trips. We visited the Colorado park on vacation because it's close to Arches NP.

You can do your unplanned disorganized vacations but it’s not how most people roll. It’s a long way to go without a plan.

There's a difference between booking hotels and checking weather and spending every second on your phone trying to get ride passes and booking dinner reservations 6 months out.

Its not 6 months. You have no clue what you’re talking about.

Again, I quite literally used to work for the parks, I kept seasonal status going for a while.

The fact that someone is vehementlh defending the enshittification of Disney and telling someone who was seasonal for years that I don't understand Disney is at least really funny.

It’s not 6 months. Why are you stuck on that lie?

Some stuff absolutely requires crazy ahead booking and the whole "you're lying" is bizarre.

I am by far not the only former employee who's talked about how the culture changed quite rapidly and all the little extra perks we had for the guests (free stuff, stickers, pins) are gone now. They cut down the roaming actors, the puppets, they literally painted over the mural we used to use to play a hidden pictures game with kids. It's just a grey wall above the store now.

It's just sad.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

You can roll up to most national parks and state parks and museums on a whim. We visited Colorado National Monument with no queuing and it was spectacular. Have you heard of it? We've visited parks in Ohio and West Virginia and Ontario and Nova Scotia and Georgia without bookings. We've visited WWI battlefields and museums and monuments in France without any problems. We hiked along the Jurassic Coast in England without any bookings.

If you only go to Yosemite or Zion or the Eiffel Tower or the Louvre or the London Eye, or want to travel with a house on wheels, then yes, you probably need to book.

Do you live in Colorado? I don’t so it’s not just a day excursion.

No. But I assume the previous poster doesn't live in Orlando or Paris or Yosemite, so what is your point? We're talking about vacations not day trips. We visited the Colorado park on vacation because it's close to Arches NP.

You can do your unplanned disorganized vacations but it’s not how most people roll. It’s a long way to go without a plan.

There's a difference between booking hotels and checking weather and spending every second on your phone trying to get ride passes and booking dinner reservations 6 months out.

Its not 6 months. You have no clue what you’re talking about.

Again, I quite literally used to work for the parks, I kept seasonal status going for a while.

The fact that someone is vehementlh defending the enshittification of Disney and telling someone who was seasonal for years that I don't understand Disney is at least really funny.

It’s not 6 months. Why are you stuck on that lie?

Some stuff absolutely requires crazy ahead booking and the whole "you're lying" is bizarre.

I am by far not the only former employee who's talked about how the culture changed quite rapidly and all the little extra perks we had for the guests (free stuff, stickers, pins) are gone now. They cut down the roaming actors, the puppets, they literally painted over the mural we used to use to play a hidden pictures game with kids. It's just a grey wall above the store now.

It's just sad.

It’s 60 days. Just fyi so you can get unstuck.

[Anonymous]

I find it very strange. Disneyland is such a phony place but it's great for kids. I don't see the appeal for adults at all.

[Anonymous]

I went when I was 9 and loved it. We took our kids there a couple years ago and...never again. It's not relaxing or fun to sit there repeatedly refreshing the app at 12:59 just to get a 7:30 ride checkin that still requires you to wait more than an hour. If I must go back to Orlando (which I hope I don't) Universal is a much better experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Adult Disney people are just strange. As are cruisers. Come at me!

Pretty simpleminded to think that anyone who isn't you is strange. Reminds me of 7th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Disney Adults need to get a hobby,” or visiting Disney is a “red flag”, these are common refrains. Yet comparable judgments are rarely, if ever, leveled at enthusiasts of other vacations: no one derides someone for frequenting Vegas, summering at the beach, touring Europe annually, or relaxing in Hawaii.

Disney visitors aren’t imposing on anyone financially, socially, or logistically—they aren’t asking anyone to fund their trip, accompany them, or manage their home in their absence. So why does this particular leisure choice provoke such disproportionate judgment, moral superiority, and indignation?

Because Hawaii, Europe and Vegas are not intrinsically thought of/designed to be kid centric destinations.

In contrast when you’re stuck waiting with your toddler in a long line behind large groups of child free adults to ride dumbo or it’s a small world it’s honestly pretty off putting….akin to a group of adults monopolizing the swing set at a local city park.

I mean, make up your mind. Is it “kid-centric” or is it overcrowded with adults? Which is it?

Both things can be true…It’s a place that was designed to be kid centric which is now increasingly sullied by socially stunted adults.

Akin to when a group of teenagers decide to start hanging out at and effectively take over a playground intended for young kids. Not sure what is so difficult about this to understand.

This. OP, no offense, but this is an awfully stupid question.

It's like asking, "Why are adults who watch Bluey and SpongeBob SquarePants subject to societal derision? It's a TV show - adults who watch Succession, the Pitt and Industry aren't made fun of at all!"

I don't know what is more troubling - if you really don't know the answer, or if you are just pretending to be a flippin' moron.