Why do Disney vacationers seem uniquely subjected to social vitriol?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Turns out running a park like Disney isn't very profitable if it's so empty everyone can walk on rides. It's crowded and they keep finding new ways to squeeze every last dollar out of guests to make it the most magical vacation ever. But you could still just show up, ride some rides, eat food from home, refill a water bottle, etc. But people are choosing all the extras. You don't need the dining experience with the characters walking around at $100pp, or whatever it costs.

This. yes you need to spring for lightening lanes or whatever they are calling them, but it’s not necessarily that much more expensive than other vacations especially considering flights and lodging can be very modest or even downright cheap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

You could just show up at Disney too. People do and say it’s fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

You can roll up to most national parks and state parks and museums on a whim. We visited Colorado National Monument with no queuing and it was spectacular. Have you heard of it? We've visited parks in Ohio and West Virginia and Ontario and Nova Scotia and Georgia without bookings. We've visited WWI battlefields and museums and monuments in France without any problems. We hiked along the Jurassic Coast in England without any bookings.

If you only go to Yosemite or Zion or the Eiffel Tower or the Louvre or the London Eye, or want to travel with a house on wheels, then yes, you probably need to book.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

You can roll up to most national parks and state parks and museums on a whim. We visited Colorado National Monument with no queuing and it was spectacular. Have you heard of it? We've visited parks in Ohio and West Virginia and Ontario and Nova Scotia and Georgia without bookings. We've visited WWI battlefields and museums and monuments in France without any problems. We hiked along the Jurassic Coast in England without any bookings.

If you only go to Yosemite or Zion or the Eiffel Tower or the Louvre or the London Eye, or want to travel with a house on wheels, then yes, you probably need to book.

Do you live in Colorado? I don’t so it’s not just a day excursion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

No, it’s really not but you are determined to dig your heels in. You could just walk up and wait in line.

[Anonymous]

And don’t forget to book your dinners six months out. There’s nothing fun about Disney.

[Anonymous]

Adult Disney people are just strange. As are cruisers. Come at me!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And don’t forget to book your dinners six months out. There’s nothing fun about Disney.

Nobody goes there anymore it’s too crowded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

No, it’s really not but you are determined to dig your heels in. You could just walk up and wait in line.

Yeah and you'll spend hours in line.

I literally used to work for the parks and have a few friends who still do. I know first hand how things that used to be free got pay walled as well as how the company has forced out and outsourced a lot of the former services and experienced employees.

I've had some good days and the park, but it 100% isn't what it used to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

You can roll up to most national parks and state parks and museums on a whim. We visited Colorado National Monument with no queuing and it was spectacular. Have you heard of it? We've visited parks in Ohio and West Virginia and Ontario and Nova Scotia and Georgia without bookings. We've visited WWI battlefields and museums and monuments in France without any problems. We hiked along the Jurassic Coast in England without any bookings.

If you only go to Yosemite or Zion or the Eiffel Tower or the Louvre or the London Eye, or want to travel with a house on wheels, then yes, you probably need to book.

Do you live in Colorado? I don’t so it’s not just a day excursion.

No. But I assume the previous poster doesn't live in Orlando or Paris or Yosemite, so what is your point? We're talking about vacations not day trips. We visited the Colorado park on vacation because it's close to Arches NP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because they push kids out of experience built and marketed for kids for generations. In our new only money is important world Disney is deciding to take easy dollars from adults recapturing the joy they had as a children (while ironically they steal t from the children of today).

This all day. And a large number of these people are very heavy users of Disney, used to claim disabilities to further cut the line, while kids there for their first visit have to wait even longer. I went to Disney once as a kid when I was like 4 and didn't go again until I had kids so I was unprepared for the volume of adults making it harder for little kids to enjoy themselves. You don't really need to ride Dumbo for the 3rd time in a week, using DAS. I'm glad Disney finally cracked down on those abusers who not so coincidentally have annual passes.

I also saw this with the DAS passes and Disney adults. It’s so strange that adults with autism were getting DAS passes because they can’t wait for dumbo but a 2 year old is supposed to wait. And the 2 year old waits even longer because of so many cutting. The lines would be shorter for everyone without it. And yes, I personally know these adults. It’s not something I’m imagining them doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

You can roll up to most national parks and state parks and museums on a whim. We visited Colorado National Monument with no queuing and it was spectacular. Have you heard of it? We've visited parks in Ohio and West Virginia and Ontario and Nova Scotia and Georgia without bookings. We've visited WWI battlefields and museums and monuments in France without any problems. We hiked along the Jurassic Coast in England without any bookings.

If you only go to Yosemite or Zion or the Eiffel Tower or the Louvre or the London Eye, or want to travel with a house on wheels, then yes, you probably need to book.

Do you live in Colorado? I don’t so it’s not just a day excursion.

No. But I assume the previous poster doesn't live in Orlando or Paris or Yosemite, so what is your point? We're talking about vacations not day trips. We visited the Colorado park on vacation because it's close to Arches NP.

You can do your unplanned disorganized vacations but it’s not how most people roll. It’s a long way to go without a plan.