Why do Disney vacationers seem uniquely subjected to social vitriol?

[Anonymous]

I’m cracking up at the people who claim to despise Disney and everything they stand for and yet still seem to think their child deserves to meet Cinderella and should not have to stand in line to do so. Like, do you even hear the hypocrisy?

Disney is a business and they are allowed to extract money from their customers in any way they feel the customers will tolerate. Like any other business. It’s not some public service for children like the town park.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

You chose a city with fewer attractions so it was easier to navigate. Doesn’t take a genius to figure that out. The point about the Disney top rides is that they are the top rides in the world - Guardians of the Galaxy is a $1 billion dollar marvel of engineering and entertainment. So yes it is worth doing the (tiny) amount of planning - likely no different than going to the Eiffel Tower - to ride it. There are like 2 rides at Disney that require that level of planning (Guardians and Slinky) and if you like rides the effort is 100% worth it. You’re comparing apples and oranges and declaring oranges superior. There is zero comparison between Guardians of the Galaxy and having a cookie in a suburban Dutch town.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m cracking up at the people who claim to despise Disney and everything they stand for and yet still seem to think their child deserves to meet Cinderella and should not have to stand in line to do so. Like, do you even hear the hypocrisy?

Disney is a business and they are allowed to extract money from their customers in any way they feel the customers will tolerate. Like any other business. It’s not some public service for children like the town park.

This may be tough to wrap your mind around, but it is entirely possible that that there are *different people* posting *anonymously* who think different things.

Crazy, I know.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

You can roll up to most national parks and state parks and museums on a whim. We visited Colorado National Monument with no queuing and it was spectacular. Have you heard of it? We've visited parks in Ohio and West Virginia and Ontario and Nova Scotia and Georgia without bookings. We've visited WWI battlefields and museums and monuments in France without any problems. We hiked along the Jurassic Coast in England without any bookings.

If you only go to Yosemite or Zion or the Eiffel Tower or the Louvre or the London Eye, or want to travel with a house on wheels, then yes, you probably need to book.

Do you live in Colorado? I don’t so it’s not just a day excursion.

No. But I assume the previous poster doesn't live in Orlando or Paris or Yosemite, so what is your point? We're talking about vacations not day trips. We visited the Colorado park on vacation because it's close to Arches NP.

You can do your unplanned disorganized vacations but it’s not how most people roll. It’s a long way to go without a plan.

There's a difference between booking hotels and checking weather and spending every second on your phone trying to get ride passes and booking dinner reservations 6 months out.

Its not 6 months. You have no clue what you’re talking about.

Again, I quite literally used to work for the parks, I kept seasonal status going for a while.

The fact that someone is vehementlh defending the enshittification of Disney and telling someone who was seasonal for years that I don't understand Disney is at least really funny.

DP. Disneyworld fan here. I don’t disagree with you at all but the fact is everything is changing in this way in tourism and entertainment. The question is whether Disney is doing it better or worse. Personally I never went to Disney without the paid lightening lane system so I have no basis for comparison, but to my mind, it works quite well once you get the hang of it. Yes they are monetizing something that used to be more democratic (waiting in line) but that is the nature of economics. I am willing to pay so capitalism finds a way to charge me for it lol. What I do find sad is the exclusive focus on IP instead of anything new. As the older originals go away (Dinosaur, Bugs Life, etc) they are replaced with franchise characters …

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

You can roll up to most national parks and state parks and museums on a whim. We visited Colorado National Monument with no queuing and it was spectacular. Have you heard of it? We've visited parks in Ohio and West Virginia and Ontario and Nova Scotia and Georgia without bookings. We've visited WWI battlefields and museums and monuments in France without any problems. We hiked along the Jurassic Coast in England without any bookings.

If you only go to Yosemite or Zion or the Eiffel Tower or the Louvre or the London Eye, or want to travel with a house on wheels, then yes, you probably need to book.

Do you live in Colorado? I don’t so it’s not just a day excursion.

No. But I assume the previous poster doesn't live in Orlando or Paris or Yosemite, so what is your point? We're talking about vacations not day trips. We visited the Colorado park on vacation because it's close to Arches NP.

You can do your unplanned disorganized vacations but it’s not how most people roll. It’s a long way to go without a plan.

There's a difference between booking hotels and checking weather and spending every second on your phone trying to get ride passes and booking dinner reservations 6 months out.

Its not 6 months. You have no clue what you’re talking about.

Again, I quite literally used to work for the parks, I kept seasonal status going for a while.

The fact that someone is vehementlh defending the enshittification of Disney and telling someone who was seasonal for years that I don't understand Disney is at least really funny.

DP. Disneyworld fan here. I don’t disagree with you at all but the fact is everything is changing in this way in tourism and entertainment. The question is whether Disney is doing it better or worse. Personally I never went to Disney without the paid lightening lane system so I have no basis for comparison, but to my mind, it works quite well once you get the hang of it. Yes they are monetizing something that used to be more democratic (waiting in line) but that is the nature of economics. I am willing to pay so capitalism finds a way to charge me for it lol. What I do find sad is the exclusive focus on IP instead of anything new. As the older originals go away (Dinosaur, Bugs Life, etc) they are replaced with franchise characters …

For those of us who used to work there, it's also a change in labor practices. Post COVID they fired a ton of the most experienced Guest relations staff. People who ran a lot of logistics. They pushed out a lot of the people who made the wheels run when things went off (I've worked Tropical Storm days and New Years Eve, dealt with injuries, Make a Wish visits and those were the people who helped out). They've replaced a lot of those people with cheaper labor (College program, particularly ICP was always a bit scammy). And you do see it in the quality of the parks. We lost the people who knew the tricks to fix equipment faster. They cut maintenance so there's more trash.

I wasn't one of the people who was part of it but for some of my colleagues they were very into the whole magic aspect. And Post COVID that all fell apart.

[Anonymous]

Ok you all are getting off topic. Yes we know Disney is overcrowded and money hungry. Back to talking about Disney adults.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

You chose a city with fewer attractions so it was easier to navigate. Doesn’t take a genius to figure that out. The point about the Disney top rides is that they are the top rides in the world - Guardians of the Galaxy is a $1 billion dollar marvel of engineering and entertainment. So yes it is worth doing the (tiny) amount of planning - likely no different than going to the Eiffel Tower - to ride it. There are like 2 rides at Disney that require that level of planning (Guardians and Slinky) and if you like rides the effort is 100% worth it. You’re comparing apples and oranges and declaring oranges superior. There is zero comparison between Guardians of the Galaxy and having a cookie in a suburban Dutch town.

NP. I vote for the cookie in Leiden any day.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:“Disney Adults need to get a hobby,” or visiting Disney is a “red flag”, these are common refrains. Yet comparable judgments are rarely, if ever, leveled at enthusiasts of other vacations: no one derides someone for frequenting Vegas, summering at the beach, touring Europe annually, or relaxing in Hawaii.

Disney visitors aren’t imposing on anyone financially, socially, or logistically—they aren’t asking anyone to fund their trip, accompany them, or manage their home in their absence. So why does this particular leisure choice provoke such disproportionate judgment, moral superiority, and indignation?

Because Hawaii, Europe and Vegas are not intrinsically thought of/designed to be kid centric destinations.

In contrast when you’re stuck waiting with your toddler in a long line behind large groups of child free adults to ride dumbo or it’s a small world it’s honestly pretty off putting….akin to a group of adults monopolizing the swing set at a local city park.

I mean, make up your mind. Is it “kid-centric” or is it overcrowded with adults? Which is it?

Both things can be true…It’s a place that was designed to be kid centric which is now increasingly sullied by socially stunted adults.

Akin to when a group of teenagers decide to start hanging out at and effectively take over a playground intended for young kids. Not sure what is so difficult about this to understand.

This. OP, no offense, but this is an awfully stupid question.

It's like asking, "Why are adults who watch Bluey and SpongeBob SquarePants subject to societal derision? It's a TV show - adults who watch Succession, the Pitt and Industry aren't made fun of at all!"

I don't know what is more troubling - if you really don't know the answer, or if you are just pretending to be a flippin' moron.

+1. I asked a coworker where he was going on vacation and it was basically a Larp convention where they dress up in Lord of the Rings costumes.. i was nice about it but internally I found this pretty infantile. And I feel the same about Disney adults. I’m allowed to have private feelings.
And people definitely deride other people’s vacations! Some lady asked about mine (camping in Acadia) and her response was “Oh hell no. If I’m not being served tropical drinks it’s not a real vacation. That sounds terrible.” Well it was heavenly to me!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

You chose a city with fewer attractions so it was easier to navigate. Doesn’t take a genius to figure that out. The point about the Disney top rides is that they are the top rides in the world - Guardians of the Galaxy is a $1 billion dollar marvel of engineering and entertainment. So yes it is worth doing the (tiny) amount of planning - likely no different than going to the Eiffel Tower - to ride it. There are like 2 rides at Disney that require that level of planning (Guardians and Slinky) and if you like rides the effort is 100% worth it. You’re comparing apples and oranges and declaring oranges superior. There is zero comparison between Guardians of the Galaxy and having a cookie in a suburban Dutch town.

NP. I vote for the cookie in Leiden any day.

I mean the food quality is also worse. I remember we used to actually quite like the food at the Chinese Pavillion in EPCOT, it was cheap, big portions and was basically mall "Chinese" food but it got the job done. It's no longer cheap and quality is worse.

I've seen people do the reviews on the high end restaurants at EPCOT and even those aren't good anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

You chose a city with fewer attractions so it was easier to navigate. Doesn’t take a genius to figure that out. The point about the Disney top rides is that they are the top rides in the world - Guardians of the Galaxy is a $1 billion dollar marvel of engineering and entertainment. So yes it is worth doing the (tiny) amount of planning - likely no different than going to the Eiffel Tower - to ride it. There are like 2 rides at Disney that require that level of planning (Guardians and Slinky) and if you like rides the effort is 100% worth it. You’re comparing apples and oranges and declaring oranges superior. There is zero comparison between Guardians of the Galaxy and having a cookie in a suburban Dutch town.

NP. I vote for the cookie in Leiden any day.

I mean the food quality is also worse. I remember we used to actually quite like the food at the Chinese Pavillion in EPCOT, it was cheap, big portions and was basically mall "Chinese" food but it got the job done. It's no longer cheap and quality is worse.

I've seen people do the reviews on the high end restaurants at EPCOT and even those aren't good anymore.

I don’t go to Disney for the food. I think it’s more of a draw for people from smaller places where you don’t have a diversity of restaurant options.

That said I prefer Dole Whip or a cheeseburger egg roll to a deep fried horse sausage in Leiden.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

You chose a city with fewer attractions so it was easier to navigate. Doesn’t take a genius to figure that out. The point about the Disney top rides is that they are the top rides in the world - Guardians of the Galaxy is a $1 billion dollar marvel of engineering and entertainment. So yes it is worth doing the (tiny) amount of planning - likely no different than going to the Eiffel Tower - to ride it. There are like 2 rides at Disney that require that level of planning (Guardians and Slinky) and if you like rides the effort is 100% worth it. You’re comparing apples and oranges and declaring oranges superior. There is zero comparison between Guardians of the Galaxy and having a cookie in a suburban Dutch town.

NP. I vote for the cookie in Leiden any day.

Borrrring

[Anonymous]

The one aspect Disney really plays up is the whole scarcity model. Get this popcorn bucket you can only buy at the Halloween party. Buy this rare pin. Buy packages of pins hoping a rare one is inside. This t shirt/blushes exclusive, etc. Etc.

It's playing into the gambling mindset of it all and explains the Disney adult thing in part. That stuff isn't aimed at kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

You chose a city with fewer attractions so it was easier to navigate. Doesn’t take a genius to figure that out. The point about the Disney top rides is that they are the top rides in the world - Guardians of the Galaxy is a $1 billion dollar marvel of engineering and entertainment. So yes it is worth doing the (tiny) amount of planning - likely no different than going to the Eiffel Tower - to ride it. There are like 2 rides at Disney that require that level of planning (Guardians and Slinky) and if you like rides the effort is 100% worth it. You’re comparing apples and oranges and declaring oranges superior. There is zero comparison between Guardians of the Galaxy and having a cookie in a suburban Dutch town.

NP. I vote for the cookie in Leiden any day.

Borrrring

If you've never had a fresh stroopwaffle, you're missing out. A dole whip doesn't come close.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

You chose a city with fewer attractions so it was easier to navigate. Doesn’t take a genius to figure that out. The point about the Disney top rides is that they are the top rides in the world - Guardians of the Galaxy is a $1 billion dollar marvel of engineering and entertainment. So yes it is worth doing the (tiny) amount of planning - likely no different than going to the Eiffel Tower - to ride it. There are like 2 rides at Disney that require that level of planning (Guardians and Slinky) and if you like rides the effort is 100% worth it. You’re comparing apples and oranges and declaring oranges superior. There is zero comparison between Guardians of the Galaxy and having a cookie in a suburban Dutch town.

NP. I vote for the cookie in Leiden any day.

Borrrring

At least it's real.

[Anonymous]

Whoa! I looked up Disney Parks attendance trends and up to 63% of visitors are childless adults! This is crazy!