How to Support Students WRT information on ICE and rights?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Contact your school administration or legal services office if there is a law school there. I believe that rumor is false, and they do not have time to randomly go door to door on a college campus. They are looking for criminals, high-risk/violent individuals, warrants, and gang members, not the average college student in an off-campus apartment. Your child should comply as instructed, just as he would with any law enforcement officer if they happen to stop him and request identification. It's straightforward and basic when encountering ICE or a police officer.

They are disappearing people with no criminal record. They are detaining US citizens.

You do not have to speak to ICE or answer their questions. You can assert your right to remain silent and request a lawyer. You can decline their request to search you or your vehicle. ICE is not allowed into private spaces without a judicial warrant.

OP, here are resources from the Minnesota ACLU:

https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/what-if-im-stopped-police-or-ice/
https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-college-students/

While technically correct, this generally terrible advice from a practical perspective.

If OP’s child is a citizen, s/he should politely answer ICE’s questions and carry/provide proof of citizenship if requested.

99% chance that will end the interaction safely and with no further action.

Correction: If OP's child is a white citizen...

I’m PP and my kids are brown, and I’m very confident that they will be fine if the cooperate and present documentation if requested.

I’m even more confident that failing to do so would make their situation MORE dangerous.

So aside from irrational fear-mongering and making kids less safe, you got anything else?

You are a god dammed fool.

What do you not understand about the number of citizens who are not criminals that have been taken by ICE? Facts matter.

The fact is our courts are litigating a ton of cases just like that. And you think your kids are safe with papers???

Prepare your children this is not going to end well.

The numbers are staggering how many citizens they have put in confinment!

Yes, facts matter. I’ve read the ProPublica report. Have you?

The number of citizens detained who (a) were not protesting, and (b) presented proof of citizenship is very low.

The data clearly and unequivocally shows this to be true.

You’re letting anxiety distort your view of the actual facts.

And for the record, I’m not a fan of ICE or of Trump—loathe him.

ICE should not be detaining ANY US citizens, even if they are protesting or don't have proof of citizenship with them.

You are making excuses for Trump & his henchmen trampling people's rights.

Not at all, as I’ve repeatedly made clear.

I’m talking about the real level of risk to college kids and how to address and minimize that risk.

The morality and legality of what’s happening is an entirely separate discussion, one that has no relevance to OP’s question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Contact your school administration or legal services office if there is a law school there. I believe that rumor is false, and they do not have time to randomly go door to door on a college campus. They are looking for criminals, high-risk/violent individuals, warrants, and gang members, not the average college student in an off-campus apartment. Your child should comply as instructed, just as he would with any law enforcement officer if they happen to stop him and request identification. It's straightforward and basic when encountering ICE or a police officer.

They are disappearing people with no criminal record. They are detaining US citizens.

You do not have to speak to ICE or answer their questions. You can assert your right to remain silent and request a lawyer. You can decline their request to search you or your vehicle. ICE is not allowed into private spaces without a judicial warrant.

OP, here are resources from the Minnesota ACLU:

https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/what-if-im-stopped-police-or-ice/
https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-college-students/

While technically correct, this generally terrible advice from a practical perspective.

If OP’s child is a citizen, s/he should politely answer ICE’s questions and carry/provide proof of citizenship if requested.

99% chance that will end the interaction safely and with no further action.

From a practical perspective, compromising our rights by collaborating with law enforcement beyond what’s required is what created the unaccountable secret police we are dealing with today.

We change this by understanding and demanding our rights.

1. You want to take a stand? Go for it. But if OP wants to keep their kid safe and out of detention? Follow my advice.

2. Separately, I think your argument is flimsy. I’d argue that failing to support the enforcement of laws is what created today’s situation—by excusing the Jan 6 rioters and Trump on the one hand, and by not enforcing our immigration laws on the other.

You do you. But I think your approach is neither safe at an individual level nor productive at the societal level.

I agree that everyone has to assess their personal risk.

But it is undeniable that giving up our rights a little bit at a time over decades is absolutely a major factor in why we have today's ICE.

It is also undeniable that cooperating and showing papers does not guarantee safety or a just outcome. Assuming they do is as dangerous as minimal compliance.

Genuinely curious: which rights have we given up a little bit at a time over decades, and how has this created today’s ICE?

You know you can look this up instead of taking random internet persons word for it

Now I know a lazy MAGA when I meet one

Far from MAGA (loathe Trump, voted blue in every national, spouse worked for BO).

But I’ve never heard ICE described as the product of a gradual erosion of rights.

You want to explain? I’m listening. You don’t? No skin off my nose.

ICE was created after September 11 as part of a wave of rights-abridging policies and institutions that accompanied a huge wave of Islamophobia. People with Muslim-sounding names were put on watchlists. Immigration moved from being administratively managed (INS) to having a dedicated policing force (ICE). Police were increasingly militarized. The government ramped up surveillance of citizens, often in ways that violated the Bill of Rights. This was started under Bush but pursued just as zealously under Obama. So it’s not an R vs. D thing.

The post-9/11 actions built on years of government policy responding to the spike in crime of the 80s and early 90s through mass incarceration—making it easier to arrest and imprison people for longer using policing and tactics that often violated or at least compromised constitutional rights (e.g., race-based stops, pretextual searches). This happened disproportionately under Clinton, so again, not R vs. D. So even as crime was falling starting in the late 90s and early 00s, we were primed for further fear-based rights abridgement after 9/11, this time focused on an external enemy that was allegedly infiltrating us and needed to be policed through other means.

And here we are. FWIW, I’m a Democrat and believe that Democrats are the only answer right now. But I also know that where we are with ICE right now is the product of a bipartisan effort to erode our rights, and it’s important that we all have our eyes open about how we got here and what needs to happen if we have any chance of changing course.

PP here. Thank you—very interesting perspective and will have me doing some reading and thinking tonight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Contact your school administration or legal services office if there is a law school there. I believe that rumor is false, and they do not have time to randomly go door to door on a college campus. They are looking for criminals, high-risk/violent individuals, warrants, and gang members, not the average college student in an off-campus apartment. Your child should comply as instructed, just as he would with any law enforcement officer if they happen to stop him and request identification. It's straightforward and basic when encountering ICE or a police officer.

They are disappearing people with no criminal record. They are detaining US citizens.

You do not have to speak to ICE or answer their questions. You can assert your right to remain silent and request a lawyer. You can decline their request to search you or your vehicle. ICE is not allowed into private spaces without a judicial warrant.

OP, here are resources from the Minnesota ACLU:

https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/what-if-im-stopped-police-or-ice/
https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-college-students/

While technically correct, this generally terrible advice from a practical perspective.

If OP’s child is a citizen, s/he should politely answer ICE’s questions and carry/provide proof of citizenship if requested.

99% chance that will end the interaction safely and with no further action.

Correction: If OP's child is a white citizen...

I’m PP and my kids are brown, and I’m very confident that they will be fine if the cooperate and present documentation if requested.

I’m even more confident that failing to do so would make their situation MORE dangerous.

So aside from irrational fear-mongering and making kids less safe, you got anything else?

You are a god dammed fool.

What do you not understand about the number of citizens who are not criminals that have been taken by ICE? Facts matter.

The fact is our courts are litigating a ton of cases just like that. And you think your kids are safe with papers???

Prepare your children this is not going to end well.

The numbers are staggering how many citizens they have put in confinment!

Yes, facts matter. I’ve read the ProPublica report. Have you?

The number of citizens detained who (a) were not protesting, and (b) presented proof of citizenship is very low.

The data clearly and unequivocally shows this to be true.

You’re letting anxiety distort your view of the actual facts.

And for the record, I’m not a fan of ICE or of Trump—loathe him.

ICE should not be detaining ANY US citizens, even if they are protesting or don't have proof of citizenship with them.

You are making excuses for Trump & his henchmen trampling people's rights.

Not at all, as I’ve repeatedly made clear.

I’m talking about the real level of risk to college kids and how to address and minimize that risk.

The morality and legality of what’s happening is an entirely separate discussion, one that has no relevance to OP’s question.

By caveating the conditions of citizens being detained - and treating it as a separate discussion - you are giving ICE space to trample rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Contact your school administration or legal services office if there is a law school there. I believe that rumor is false, and they do not have time to randomly go door to door on a college campus. They are looking for criminals, high-risk/violent individuals, warrants, and gang members, not the average college student in an off-campus apartment. Your child should comply as instructed, just as he would with any law enforcement officer if they happen to stop him and request identification. It's straightforward and basic when encountering ICE or a police officer.

I assume you are well-intentioned here but you need to look up the stats. The immense majority of the detained have zero criminal record. And well under ten percent have been associated with any sort of violent crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Contact your school administration or legal services office if there is a law school there. I believe that rumor is false, and they do not have time to randomly go door to door on a college campus. They are looking for criminals, high-risk/violent individuals, warrants, and gang members, not the average college student in an off-campus apartment. Your child should comply as instructed, just as he would with any law enforcement officer if they happen to stop him and request identification. It's straightforward and basic when encountering ICE or a police officer.

They are disappearing people with no criminal record. They are detaining US citizens.

You do not have to speak to ICE or answer their questions. You can assert your right to remain silent and request a lawyer. You can decline their request to search you or your vehicle. ICE is not allowed into private spaces without a judicial warrant.

OP, here are resources from the Minnesota ACLU:

https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/what-if-im-stopped-police-or-ice/
https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-college-students/

While technically correct, this generally terrible advice from a practical perspective.

If OP’s child is a citizen, s/he should politely answer ICE’s questions and carry/provide proof of citizenship if requested.

99% chance that will end the interaction safely and with no further action.

Correction: If OP's child is a white citizen...

I’m PP and my kids are brown, and I’m very confident that they will be fine if the cooperate and present documentation if requested.

I’m even more confident that failing to do so would make their situation MORE dangerous.

So aside from irrational fear-mongering and making kids less safe, you got anything else?

You are a god dammed fool.

What do you not understand about the number of citizens who are not criminals that have been taken by ICE? Facts matter.

The fact is our courts are litigating a ton of cases just like that. And you think your kids are safe with papers???

Prepare your children this is not going to end well.

The numbers are staggering how many citizens they have put in confinment!

Yes, facts matter. I’ve read the ProPublica report. Have you?

The number of citizens detained who (a) were not protesting, and (b) presented proof of citizenship is very low.

The data clearly and unequivocally shows this to be true.

You’re letting anxiety distort your view of the actual facts.

And for the record, I’m not a fan of ICE or of Trump—loathe him.

ICE should not be detaining ANY US citizens, even if they are protesting or don't have proof of citizenship with them.

You are making excuses for Trump & his henchmen trampling people's rights.

Not at all, as I’ve repeatedly made clear.

I’m talking about the real level of risk to college kids and how to address and minimize that risk.

The morality and legality of what’s happening is an entirely separate discussion, one that has no relevance to OP’s question.

By caveating the conditions of citizens being detained - and treating it as a separate discussion - you are giving ICE space to trample rights.

You grossly overestimate my influence.

[Anonymous]

Seems some of you aren’t following the news closely enough. A US citizen from MD was recently detained for 25 days (and moved around to detention facilities in five different states) even after her attorneys presented an authenticated birth certificate from the hospital in Laurel, MD showing she was born in the U.S.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/baltimore/news/maryland-ice-detention-dulce-diaz-morales-released-citizenship/

Do you have a plan for what to do should you find yourself in that situation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Contact your school administration or legal services office if there is a law school there. I believe that rumor is false, and they do not have time to randomly go door to door on a college campus. They are looking for criminals, high-risk/violent individuals, warrants, and gang members, not the average college student in an off-campus apartment. Your child should comply as instructed, just as he would with any law enforcement officer if they happen to stop him and request identification. It's straightforward and basic when encountering ICE or a police officer.

They are disappearing people with no criminal record. They are detaining US citizens.

You do not have to speak to ICE or answer their questions. You can assert your right to remain silent and request a lawyer. You can decline their request to search you or your vehicle. ICE is not allowed into private spaces without a judicial warrant.

OP, here are resources from the Minnesota ACLU:

https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/what-if-im-stopped-police-or-ice/
https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-college-students/

While technically correct, this generally terrible advice from a practical perspective.

If OP’s child is a citizen, s/he should politely answer ICE’s questions and carry/provide proof of citizenship if requested.

99% chance that will end the interaction safely and with no further action.

Correction: If OP's child is a white citizen...

I’m PP and my kids are brown, and I’m very confident that they will be fine if the cooperate and present documentation if requested.

I’m even more confident that failing to do so would make their situation MORE dangerous.

So aside from irrational fear-mongering and making kids less safe, you got anything else?

You are a god dammed fool.

What do you not understand about the number of citizens who are not criminals that have been taken by ICE? Facts matter.

The fact is our courts are litigating a ton of cases just like that. And you think your kids are safe with papers???

Prepare your children this is not going to end well.

The numbers are staggering how many citizens they have put in confinment!

Yes, facts matter. I’ve read the ProPublica report. Have you?

The number of citizens detained who (a) were not protesting, and (b) presented proof of citizenship is very low.

The data clearly and unequivocally shows this to be true.

You’re letting anxiety distort your view of the actual facts.

And for the record, I’m not a fan of ICE or of Trump—loathe him.

ICE should not be detaining ANY US citizens, even if they are protesting or don't have proof of citizenship with them.

You are making excuses for Trump & his henchmen trampling people's rights.

Not at all, as I’ve repeatedly made clear.

I’m talking about the real level of risk to college kids and how to address and minimize that risk.

The morality and legality of what’s happening is an entirely separate discussion, one that has no relevance to OP’s question.

By caveating the conditions of citizens being detained - and treating it as a separate discussion - you are giving ICE space to trample rights.

You grossly overestimate my influence.

And you’re trying to minimize the voice of we the people.

US citizens are responsible for defending the constitution. By easing the way for ICE you are allowing them to erode our freedoms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Contact your school administration or legal services office if there is a law school there. I believe that rumor is false, and they do not have time to randomly go door to door on a college campus. They are looking for criminals, high-risk/violent individuals, warrants, and gang members, not the average college student in an off-campus apartment. Your child should comply as instructed, just as he would with any law enforcement officer if they happen to stop him and request identification. It's straightforward and basic when encountering ICE or a police officer.

They are disappearing people with no criminal record. They are detaining US citizens.

You do not have to speak to ICE or answer their questions. You can assert your right to remain silent and request a lawyer. You can decline their request to search you or your vehicle. ICE is not allowed into private spaces without a judicial warrant.

OP, here are resources from the Minnesota ACLU:

https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/what-if-im-stopped-police-or-ice/
https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-college-students/

While technically correct, this generally terrible advice from a practical perspective.

If OP’s child is a citizen, s/he should politely answer ICE’s questions and carry/provide proof of citizenship if requested.

99% chance that will end the interaction safely and with no further action.

Correction: If OP's child is a white citizen...

I’m PP and my kids are brown, and I’m very confident that they will be fine if the cooperate and present documentation if requested.

I’m even more confident that failing to do so would make their situation MORE dangerous.

So aside from irrational fear-mongering and making kids less safe, you got anything else?

You are a god dammed fool.

What do you not understand about the number of citizens who are not criminals that have been taken by ICE? Facts matter.

The fact is our courts are litigating a ton of cases just like that. And you think your kids are safe with papers???

Prepare your children this is not going to end well.

The numbers are staggering how many citizens they have put in confinment!

Yes, facts matter. I’ve read the ProPublica report. Have you?

The number of citizens detained who (a) were not protesting, and (b) presented proof of citizenship is very low.

The data clearly and unequivocally shows this to be true.

You’re letting anxiety distort your view of the actual facts.

And for the record, I’m not a fan of ICE or of Trump—loathe him.

ICE should not be detaining ANY US citizens, even if they are protesting or don't have proof of citizenship with them.

You are making excuses for Trump & his henchmen trampling people's rights.

Not at all, as I’ve repeatedly made clear.

I’m talking about the real level of risk to college kids and how to address and minimize that risk.

The morality and legality of what’s happening is an entirely separate discussion, one that has no relevance to OP’s question.

By caveating the conditions of citizens being detained - and treating it as a separate discussion - you are giving ICE space to trample rights.

You grossly overestimate my influence.

And you’re trying to minimize the voice of we the people.

US citizens are responsible for defending the constitution. By easing the way for ICE you are allowing them to erode our freedoms.

Not trying to minimize anyone’s voice.

But, yeah, I’ll prioritize keeping my kids safe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Contact your school administration or legal services office if there is a law school there. I believe that rumor is false, and they do not have time to randomly go door to door on a college campus. They are looking for criminals, high-risk/violent individuals, warrants, and gang members, not the average college student in an off-campus apartment. Your child should comply as instructed, just as he would with any law enforcement officer if they happen to stop him and request identification. It's straightforward and basic when encountering ICE or a police officer.

They are disappearing people with no criminal record. They are detaining US citizens.

You do not have to speak to ICE or answer their questions. You can assert your right to remain silent and request a lawyer. You can decline their request to search you or your vehicle. ICE is not allowed into private spaces without a judicial warrant.

OP, here are resources from the Minnesota ACLU:

https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/what-if-im-stopped-police-or-ice/
https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-college-students/

While technically correct, this generally terrible advice from a practical perspective.

If OP’s child is a citizen, s/he should politely answer ICE’s questions and carry/provide proof of citizenship if requested.

99% chance that will end the interaction safely and with no further action.

Correction: If OP's child is a white citizen...

I’m PP and my kids are brown, and I’m very confident that they will be fine if the cooperate and present documentation if requested.

I’m even more confident that failing to do so would make their situation MORE dangerous.

So aside from irrational fear-mongering and making kids less safe, you got anything else?

You are a god dammed fool.

What do you not understand about the number of citizens who are not criminals that have been taken by ICE? Facts matter.

The fact is our courts are litigating a ton of cases just like that. And you think your kids are safe with papers???

Prepare your children this is not going to end well.

The numbers are staggering how many citizens they have put in confinment!

Yes, facts matter. I’ve read the ProPublica report. Have you?

The number of citizens detained who (a) were not protesting, and (b) presented proof of citizenship is very low.

The data clearly and unequivocally shows this to be true.

You’re letting anxiety distort your view of the actual facts.

And for the record, I’m not a fan of ICE or of Trump—loathe him.

ICE should not be detaining ANY US citizens, even if they are protesting or don't have proof of citizenship with them.

You are making excuses for Trump & his henchmen trampling people's rights.

Not at all, as I’ve repeatedly made clear.

I’m talking about the real level of risk to college kids and how to address and minimize that risk.

The morality and legality of what’s happening is an entirely separate discussion, one that has no relevance to OP’s question.

The real level of risk is high enough that you should discuss it with your children.

[Anonymous]

Here’s what’s going on in white Democrats’ minds: “Oooh, finally, after all those years of marching for the downtrodden, I can now claim that the cops are after ME!! I’M discriminated against! All I have to do is follow ICE around & hassle them, & just maybe I’ll get arrested!”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here’s what’s going on in white Democrats’ minds: “Oooh, finally, after all those years of marching for the downtrodden, I can now claim that the cops are after ME!! I’M discriminated against! All I have to do is follow ICE around & hassle them, & just maybe I’ll get arrested!”

Except yts have always committed the most crimes had the most arrests and were killed by police the most so your theory doesn’t work.

Thanks Heroin and alcohol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here’s what’s going on in white Democrats’ minds: “Oooh, finally, after all those years of marching for the downtrodden, I can now claim that the cops are after ME!! I’M discriminated against! All I have to do is follow ICE around & hassle them, & just maybe I’ll get arrested!”

Divide and conquer, right?

Maybe it will work?

[Anonymous]

Good article today on what to do and resources:
https://www.wired.com/story/what-to-do-if-ice-invades-your-neighborhood/

I particularly like the idea of repeating out loud any directive you are given, if Ice worker says “step back” or give me ID” repeat if our loud as you do it
“I’m stepping back, I’m stepping back”, so it gets recorded in their body cams or whatever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have a handy resource?
My DC goes to school in MN and I want to provide them with materials so that they understand their rights.
I assume the school will have information - but I have not seen anything.
Rumor has it ICE is going door to door with guns drawn and my student lives off campus so there is a greater than 0 chance will encounter a pack of ICE agents over the next few weeks.

- OMG - lets make a mountain out of a molehill. Have them walk around with their US Passport if you/they are so afraid.