Reply to How to Support Students WRT information on ICE and rights?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Contact your school administration or legal services office if there is a law school there. I believe that rumor is false, and they do not have time to randomly go door to door on a college campus. They are looking for criminals, high-risk/violent individuals, warrants, and gang members, not the average college student in an off-campus apartment. Your child should comply as instructed, just as he would with any law enforcement officer if they happen to stop him and request identification. It's straightforward and basic when encountering ICE or a police officer. [/quote]

They are disappearing people with no criminal record. They are detaining US citizens.

You do not have to speak to ICE or answer their questions. You can assert your right to remain silent and request a lawyer. You can decline their request to search you or your vehicle. ICE is not allowed into private spaces without a judicial warrant.

OP, here are resources from the Minnesota ACLU:

https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/what-if-im-stopped-police-or-ice/
https://www.aclu-mn.org/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-college-students/

[/quote]

While technically correct, this generally terrible advice from a practical perspective.

If OP’s child is a citizen, s/he should politely answer ICE’s questions and carry/provide proof of citizenship if requested.

99% chance that will end the interaction safely and with no further action.[/quote]

From a practical perspective, compromising our rights by collaborating with law enforcement beyond what’s required is what created the unaccountable secret police we are dealing with today.

We change this by understanding and demanding our rights.[/quote]

1. You want to take a stand? Go for it. But if OP wants to keep their kid safe and out of detention? Follow my advice.

2. Separately, I think your argument is flimsy. I’d argue that failing to support the enforcement of laws is what created today’s situation—by excusing the Jan 6 rioters and Trump on the one hand, and by not enforcing our immigration laws on the other.

You do you. But I think your approach is neither safe at an individual level nor productive at the societal level.[/quote]

I agree that everyone has to assess their personal risk.

But it is undeniable that giving up our rights a little bit at a time over decades is absolutely a major factor in why we have today's ICE.

It is also undeniable that cooperating and showing papers does not guarantee safety or a just outcome. Assuming they do is as dangerous as minimal compliance. [/quote]

Genuinely curious: which rights have we given up a little bit at a time over decades, and how has this created today’s ICE?[/quote]

You know you can look this up instead of taking random internet persons word for it

Now I know a lazy MAGA when I meet one [/quote]

Far from MAGA (loathe Trump, voted blue in every national, spouse worked for BO).

But I’ve never heard ICE described as the product of a gradual erosion of rights.

You want to explain? I’m listening. You don’t? No skin off my nose.[/quote]

ICE was created after September 11 as part of a wave of rights-abridging policies and institutions that accompanied a huge wave of Islamophobia. People with Muslim-sounding names were put on watchlists. Immigration moved from being administratively managed (INS) to having a dedicated policing force (ICE). Police were increasingly militarized. The government ramped up surveillance of citizens, often in ways that violated the Bill of Rights. This was started under Bush but pursued just as zealously under Obama. So it’s not an R vs. D thing.

The post-9/11 actions built on years of government policy responding to the spike in crime of the 80s and early 90s through mass incarceration—making it easier to arrest and imprison people for longer using policing and tactics that often violated or at least compromised constitutional rights (e.g., race-based stops, pretextual searches). This happened disproportionately under Clinton, so again, not R vs. D. So even as crime was falling starting in the late 90s and early 00s, we were primed for further fear-based rights abridgement after 9/11, this time focused on an external enemy that was allegedly infiltrating us and needed to be policed through other means.

And here we are. FWIW, I’m a Democrat and believe that Democrats are the only answer right now. But I also know that where we are with ICE right now is the product of a bipartisan effort to erode our rights, and it’s important that we all have our eyes open about how we got here and what needs to happen if we have any chance of changing course.[/quote]

PP here. Thank you—very interesting perspective and will have me doing some reading and thinking tonight. [/quote]

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