Richard Montgomery High School teacher complains about chronic absenteeism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Somehow it looks like people are trying to use this issue to push school start times later.

So wanted to copy and paste the 2023-2024 attendance rates for high schools in the surrounding counties from mdreport card. I also looked up the bell times for the first three high schools for each school district. And I think it's safe to assume all of the high schools within a school system have the same bell times. So Montgomery County high schools have a 7:45 start, Frederick 7:30, and Howard 7:50.

Some things to note is that Richard Montgomery, 91.4, and Churchill, 93.4, only has a two percent difference in attendance rate.

And Howard County did try to implement later start times a year or two ago. But that and combined with outsourcing bus service, resulted in a diaster in bussing services and is likely one the reasons that resulted in the superintendent leaving. Kids were getting picked up and dropped off up to an hour late. And some of it was due to the smaller turnaround times for buses to go from school to school. ie buses usually do their high school routes first, then middle schools, then elementary schools.

And also MCPS did do a study on possibly changing bell times a while back, when families would protest in front of Central Office. It was determined it wasn't worth the cost or effort. But the parent groups kept protesting, so MCPS changed the bell times slightly to appease them.

But as shown in the numbers below, Frederick County has earlier start times, and schools with higher attendance rates to MCPS. So I don't think the answer is pushing back bell times.

Link to the file with attendance rates is here:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/DataDownloads/datadownload/3/17/6/99/XXXX/2025


By county (sorted by attendance rate descending):
LEA Name School Number School Name School Type Attend Rate Pct Bell time
Frederick A All Frederick Schools High 93.1 7:30
Howard A All Howard Schools High 92.5 7:50
Montgomery A All Montgomery Schools High 89.7 7:45




By school (sorted by attendance rate descending):

LEA Number LEA Name School Number School Name School Type Attend Rate Pct Bell time
13 Howard 0308 Marriotts Ridge High High >= 95.0 7:50
10 Frederick 0713 Urbana High High 94.9 7:30
10 Frederick 0912 Linganore High High 94.5 7:30
10 Frederick 0920 Oakdale High High 94.5 7:30
10 Frederick 0226 Monocacy Valley Montessori High 94.4
13 Howard 0214 Centennial High High 94.3 7:50
13 Howard 0524 River Hill High High 94.2 7:50
15 Montgomery 0427 Walt Whitman High High 94.1 7:45
10 Frederick 0313 Middletown High High 94
13 Howard 0404 Glenelg High High 94 7:50
15 Montgomery 0234 Thomas S. Wootton High High 94 7:45
13 Howard 0203 Howard High High 93.4 7:50
15 Montgomery 0152 Poolesville High High 93.4 7:45
15 Montgomery 0602 Winston Churchill High High 93.4
13 Howard 0509 Atholton High High 93.2 7:50
10 Frederick 2503 Brunswick High High 93
13 Howard 0207 Mount Hebron High High 93 7:50
13 Howard 0527 Reservoir High High 93 7:50
10 Frederick 1509 Catoctin High High 92.7
10 Frederick 2610 Walkersville High High 92.6
13 Howard 0619 Hammond High High 92.3 7:50
10 Frederick 2307 Tuscarora High High 92.2
15 Montgomery 0406 Bethesda-Chevy Chase High High 92
10 Frederick 0213 Gov. Thomas Johnson High High 91.9
13 Howard 0626 Guilford Park High High 91.6 7:50
15 Montgomery 0201 Richard Montgomery High High 91.4
10 Frederick 0209 Frederick High High 91.2
13 Howard 0623 Long Reach High High 91.2 7:50
15 Montgomery 0249 Clarksburg High High 91.1
15 Montgomery 0246 Northwest High High 91
15 Montgomery 0503 Sherwood High High 90.8
15 Montgomery 0424 Walter Johnson High High 90.7
15 Montgomery 0701 Damascus High High 90.5
15 Montgomery 0230 Rockville High High 90.4
15 Montgomery 0315 Paint Branch High High 90.3
13 Howard 0611 Oakland Mills High High 90 7:50
15 Montgomery 0104 Seneca Valley High High 90
15 Montgomery 0125 Quince Orchard High High 89.8
15 Montgomery 0916 Rock Terrace School High 89.4
15 Montgomery 0965 John L Gildner Regional Inst for Children & Adol High 89.1
13 Howard 0516 Wilde Lake High High 89 7:50
15 Montgomery 0757 Montgomery Blair High High 88.7
15 Montgomery 0798 Springbrook High High 88.7
15 Montgomery 0782 Wheaton High High 88.5
15 Montgomery 0321 James Hubert Blake High High 88.3
15 Montgomery 0510 Col. Zadok Magruder High High 88.2
15 Montgomery 0789 Albert Einstein High High 87.6
13 Howard 0522 Cedar Lane Special Center High 87.3
15 Montgomery 0951 Longview School High 86.5
10 Frederick 2613 Rock Creek High 86
15 Montgomery 0796 Northwood High High 86
15 Montgomery 0815 John F. Kennedy High High 85.9
15 Montgomery 0545 Watkins Mill High High 85.1
15 Montgomery 0799 Stephen Knolls School High 84.8
15 Montgomery 0551 Gaithersburg High High 83.8
10 Frederick 0208 Heather Ridge High 75.6
13 Howard 0080 Homewood School High 69.8

Thank you for using data and evidence to have this conversation rather than just thoughts and feelings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Somehow it looks like people are trying to use this issue to push school start times later.

So wanted to copy and paste the 2023-2024 attendance rates for high schools in the surrounding counties from mdreport card. I also looked up the bell times for the first three high schools for each school district. And I think it's safe to assume all of the high schools within a school system have the same bell times. So Montgomery County high schools have a 7:45 start, Frederick 7:30, and Howard 7:50.

Some things to note is that Richard Montgomery, 91.4, and Churchill, 93.4, only has a two percent difference in attendance rate.

And Howard County did try to implement later start times a year or two ago. But that and combined with outsourcing bus service, resulted in a diaster in bussing services and is likely one the reasons that resulted in the superintendent leaving. Kids were getting picked up and dropped off up to an hour late. And some of it was due to the smaller turnaround times for buses to go from school to school. ie buses usually do their high school routes first, then middle schools, then elementary schools.

And also MCPS did do a study on possibly changing bell times a while back, when families would protest in front of Central Office. It was determined it wasn't worth the cost or effort. But the parent groups kept protesting, so MCPS changed the bell times slightly to appease them.

But as shown in the numbers below, Frederick County has earlier start times, and schools with higher attendance rates to MCPS. So I don't think the answer is pushing back bell times.

Link to the file with attendance rates is here:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/DataDownloads/datadownload/3/17/6/99/XXXX/2025


By county (sorted by attendance rate descending):
LEA Name School Number School Name School Type Attend Rate Pct Bell time
Frederick A All Frederick Schools High 93.1 7:30
Howard A All Howard Schools High 92.5 7:50
Montgomery A All Montgomery Schools High 89.7 7:45




By school (sorted by attendance rate descending):

LEA Number LEA Name School Number School Name School Type Attend Rate Pct Bell time
13 Howard 0308 Marriotts Ridge High High >= 95.0 7:50
10 Frederick 0713 Urbana High High 94.9 7:30
10 Frederick 0912 Linganore High High 94.5 7:30
10 Frederick 0920 Oakdale High High 94.5 7:30
10 Frederick 0226 Monocacy Valley Montessori High 94.4
13 Howard 0214 Centennial High High 94.3 7:50
13 Howard 0524 River Hill High High 94.2 7:50
15 Montgomery 0427 Walt Whitman High High 94.1 7:45
10 Frederick 0313 Middletown High High 94
13 Howard 0404 Glenelg High High 94 7:50
15 Montgomery 0234 Thomas S. Wootton High High 94 7:45
13 Howard 0203 Howard High High 93.4 7:50
15 Montgomery 0152 Poolesville High High 93.4 7:45
15 Montgomery 0602 Winston Churchill High High 93.4
13 Howard 0509 Atholton High High 93.2 7:50
10 Frederick 2503 Brunswick High High 93
13 Howard 0207 Mount Hebron High High 93 7:50
13 Howard 0527 Reservoir High High 93 7:50
10 Frederick 1509 Catoctin High High 92.7
10 Frederick 2610 Walkersville High High 92.6
13 Howard 0619 Hammond High High 92.3 7:50
10 Frederick 2307 Tuscarora High High 92.2
15 Montgomery 0406 Bethesda-Chevy Chase High High 92
10 Frederick 0213 Gov. Thomas Johnson High High 91.9
13 Howard 0626 Guilford Park High High 91.6 7:50
15 Montgomery 0201 Richard Montgomery High High 91.4
10 Frederick 0209 Frederick High High 91.2
13 Howard 0623 Long Reach High High 91.2 7:50
15 Montgomery 0249 Clarksburg High High 91.1
15 Montgomery 0246 Northwest High High 91
15 Montgomery 0503 Sherwood High High 90.8
15 Montgomery 0424 Walter Johnson High High 90.7
15 Montgomery 0701 Damascus High High 90.5
15 Montgomery 0230 Rockville High High 90.4
15 Montgomery 0315 Paint Branch High High 90.3
13 Howard 0611 Oakland Mills High High 90 7:50
15 Montgomery 0104 Seneca Valley High High 90
15 Montgomery 0125 Quince Orchard High High 89.8
15 Montgomery 0916 Rock Terrace School High 89.4
15 Montgomery 0965 John L Gildner Regional Inst for Children & Adol High 89.1
13 Howard 0516 Wilde Lake High High 89 7:50
15 Montgomery 0757 Montgomery Blair High High 88.7
15 Montgomery 0798 Springbrook High High 88.7
15 Montgomery 0782 Wheaton High High 88.5
15 Montgomery 0321 James Hubert Blake High High 88.3
15 Montgomery 0510 Col. Zadok Magruder High High 88.2
15 Montgomery 0789 Albert Einstein High High 87.6
13 Howard 0522 Cedar Lane Special Center High 87.3
15 Montgomery 0951 Longview School High 86.5
10 Frederick 2613 Rock Creek High 86
15 Montgomery 0796 Northwood High High 86
15 Montgomery 0815 John F. Kennedy High High 85.9
15 Montgomery 0545 Watkins Mill High High 85.1
15 Montgomery 0799 Stephen Knolls School High 84.8
15 Montgomery 0551 Gaithersburg High High 83.8
10 Frederick 0208 Heather Ridge High 75.6
13 Howard 0080 Homewood School High 69.8

I’m not familiar with Frederick County and their school system. Does Frederick County have the same kind of population density as Montgomery County? Do they have similar traffic congestion? Do they have the same overcrowding in their schools? Do they have as many routes per bus? Do they have as many students attending schools they aren’t zoned for by their home address? Do they have the same FARMs rate? Were they equally lax about tardiness post Covid?

[Anonymous]

Frederick Co is much more strict with attendance. A doctors note is required after three days out or any days are unexcused.

Both MCPS and FCPS “officially” have a policy of unexcused days work not being required to be graded by teachers but it is loosely enforced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Frederick Co is much more strict with attendance. A doctors note is required after three days out or any days are unexcused.

Both MCPS and FCPS “officially” have a policy of unexcused days work not being required to be graded by teachers but it is loosely enforced.

+1
Howard county too. Pre-covid they used to make parents come to at meeting with an assistant principal once their kid hit a certain number of absences, excused or not. Don’t know if they still do this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Somehow it looks like people are trying to use this issue to push school start times later.

So wanted to copy and paste the 2023-2024 attendance rates for high schools in the surrounding counties from mdreport card. I also looked up the bell times for the first three high schools for each school district. And I think it's safe to assume all of the high schools within a school system have the same bell times. So Montgomery County high schools have a 7:45 start, Frederick 7:30, and Howard 7:50.

Some things to note is that Richard Montgomery, 91.4, and Churchill, 93.4, only has a two percent difference in attendance rate.

And Howard County did try to implement later start times a year or two ago. But that and combined with outsourcing bus service, resulted in a diaster in bussing services and is likely one the reasons that resulted in the superintendent leaving. Kids were getting picked up and dropped off up to an hour late. And some of it was due to the smaller turnaround times for buses to go from school to school. ie buses usually do their high school routes first, then middle schools, then elementary schools.

And also MCPS did do a study on possibly changing bell times a while back, when families would protest in front of Central Office. It was determined it wasn't worth the cost or effort. But the parent groups kept protesting, so MCPS changed the bell times slightly to appease them.

But as shown in the numbers below, Frederick County has earlier start times, and schools with higher attendance rates to MCPS. So I don't think the answer is pushing back bell times.

Link to the file with attendance rates is here:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/DataDownloads/datadownload/3/17/6/99/XXXX/2025


By county (sorted by attendance rate descending):
LEA Name School Number School Name School Type Attend Rate Pct Bell time
Frederick A All Frederick Schools High 93.1 7:30
Howard A All Howard Schools High 92.5 7:50
Montgomery A All Montgomery Schools High 89.7 7:45




By school (sorted by attendance rate descending):

LEA Number LEA Name School Number School Name School Type Attend Rate Pct Bell time
13 Howard 0308 Marriotts Ridge High High >= 95.0 7:50
10 Frederick 0713 Urbana High High 94.9 7:30
10 Frederick 0912 Linganore High High 94.5 7:30
10 Frederick 0920 Oakdale High High 94.5 7:30
10 Frederick 0226 Monocacy Valley Montessori High 94.4
13 Howard 0214 Centennial High High 94.3 7:50
13 Howard 0524 River Hill High High 94.2 7:50
15 Montgomery 0427 Walt Whitman High High 94.1 7:45
10 Frederick 0313 Middletown High High 94
13 Howard 0404 Glenelg High High 94 7:50
15 Montgomery 0234 Thomas S. Wootton High High 94 7:45
13 Howard 0203 Howard High High 93.4 7:50
15 Montgomery 0152 Poolesville High High 93.4 7:45
15 Montgomery 0602 Winston Churchill High High 93.4
13 Howard 0509 Atholton High High 93.2 7:50
10 Frederick 2503 Brunswick High High 93
13 Howard 0207 Mount Hebron High High 93 7:50
13 Howard 0527 Reservoir High High 93 7:50
10 Frederick 1509 Catoctin High High 92.7
10 Frederick 2610 Walkersville High High 92.6
13 Howard 0619 Hammond High High 92.3 7:50
10 Frederick 2307 Tuscarora High High 92.2
15 Montgomery 0406 Bethesda-Chevy Chase High High 92
10 Frederick 0213 Gov. Thomas Johnson High High 91.9
13 Howard 0626 Guilford Park High High 91.6 7:50
15 Montgomery 0201 Richard Montgomery High High 91.4
10 Frederick 0209 Frederick High High 91.2
13 Howard 0623 Long Reach High High 91.2 7:50
15 Montgomery 0249 Clarksburg High High 91.1
15 Montgomery 0246 Northwest High High 91
15 Montgomery 0503 Sherwood High High 90.8
15 Montgomery 0424 Walter Johnson High High 90.7
15 Montgomery 0701 Damascus High High 90.5
15 Montgomery 0230 Rockville High High 90.4
15 Montgomery 0315 Paint Branch High High 90.3
13 Howard 0611 Oakland Mills High High 90 7:50
15 Montgomery 0104 Seneca Valley High High 90
15 Montgomery 0125 Quince Orchard High High 89.8
15 Montgomery 0916 Rock Terrace School High 89.4
15 Montgomery 0965 John L Gildner Regional Inst for Children & Adol High 89.1
13 Howard 0516 Wilde Lake High High 89 7:50
15 Montgomery 0757 Montgomery Blair High High 88.7
15 Montgomery 0798 Springbrook High High 88.7
15 Montgomery 0782 Wheaton High High 88.5
15 Montgomery 0321 James Hubert Blake High High 88.3
15 Montgomery 0510 Col. Zadok Magruder High High 88.2
15 Montgomery 0789 Albert Einstein High High 87.6
13 Howard 0522 Cedar Lane Special Center High 87.3
15 Montgomery 0951 Longview School High 86.5
10 Frederick 2613 Rock Creek High 86
15 Montgomery 0796 Northwood High High 86
15 Montgomery 0815 John F. Kennedy High High 85.9
15 Montgomery 0545 Watkins Mill High High 85.1
15 Montgomery 0799 Stephen Knolls School High 84.8
15 Montgomery 0551 Gaithersburg High High 83.8
10 Frederick 0208 Heather Ridge High 75.6
13 Howard 0080 Homewood School High 69.8

I’m not familiar with Frederick County and their school system. Does Frederick County have the same kind of population density as Montgomery County? Do they have similar traffic congestion? Do they have the same overcrowding in their schools? Do they have as many routes per bus? Do they have as many students attending schools they aren’t zoned for by their home address? Do they have the same FARMs rate? Were they equally lax about tardiness post Covid?

It's not that complicated.
The ranking is almost exactly FARMS rate, plus the alternative high schools mixed in at the bottom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Somehow it looks like people are trying to use this issue to push school start times later.

So wanted to copy and paste the 2023-2024 attendance rates for high schools in the surrounding counties from mdreport card. I also looked up the bell times for the first three high schools for each school district. And I think it's safe to assume all of the high schools within a school system have the same bell times. So Montgomery County high schools have a 7:45 start, Frederick 7:30, and Howard 7:50.

Some things to note is that Richard Montgomery, 91.4, and Churchill, 93.4, only has a two percent difference in attendance rate.

And Howard County did try to implement later start times a year or two ago. But that and combined with outsourcing bus service, resulted in a diaster in bussing services and is likely one the reasons that resulted in the superintendent leaving. Kids were getting picked up and dropped off up to an hour late. And some of it was due to the smaller turnaround times for buses to go from school to school. ie buses usually do their high school routes first, then middle schools, then elementary schools.

And also MCPS did do a study on possibly changing bell times a while back, when families would protest in front of Central Office. It was determined it wasn't worth the cost or effort. But the parent groups kept protesting, so MCPS changed the bell times slightly to appease them.

But as shown in the numbers below, Frederick County has earlier start times, and schools with higher attendance rates to MCPS. So I don't think the answer is pushing back bell times.

Link to the file with attendance rates is here:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/DataDownloads/datadownload/3/17/6/99/XXXX/2025


By county (sorted by attendance rate descending):
LEA Name School Number School Name School Type Attend Rate Pct Bell time
Frederick A All Frederick Schools High 93.1 7:30
Howard A All Howard Schools High 92.5 7:50
Montgomery A All Montgomery Schools High 89.7 7:45




By school (sorted by attendance rate descending):

LEA Number LEA Name School Number School Name School Type Attend Rate Pct Bell time
13 Howard 0308 Marriotts Ridge High High >= 95.0 7:50
10 Frederick 0713 Urbana High High 94.9 7:30
10 Frederick 0912 Linganore High High 94.5 7:30
10 Frederick 0920 Oakdale High High 94.5 7:30
10 Frederick 0226 Monocacy Valley Montessori High 94.4
13 Howard 0214 Centennial High High 94.3 7:50
13 Howard 0524 River Hill High High 94.2 7:50
15 Montgomery 0427 Walt Whitman High High 94.1 7:45
10 Frederick 0313 Middletown High High 94
13 Howard 0404 Glenelg High High 94 7:50
15 Montgomery 0234 Thomas S. Wootton High High 94 7:45
13 Howard 0203 Howard High High 93.4 7:50
15 Montgomery 0152 Poolesville High High 93.4 7:45
15 Montgomery 0602 Winston Churchill High High 93.4
13 Howard 0509 Atholton High High 93.2 7:50
10 Frederick 2503 Brunswick High High 93
13 Howard 0207 Mount Hebron High High 93 7:50
13 Howard 0527 Reservoir High High 93 7:50
10 Frederick 1509 Catoctin High High 92.7
10 Frederick 2610 Walkersville High High 92.6
13 Howard 0619 Hammond High High 92.3 7:50
10 Frederick 2307 Tuscarora High High 92.2
15 Montgomery 0406 Bethesda-Chevy Chase High High 92
10 Frederick 0213 Gov. Thomas Johnson High High 91.9
13 Howard 0626 Guilford Park High High 91.6 7:50
15 Montgomery 0201 Richard Montgomery High High 91.4
10 Frederick 0209 Frederick High High 91.2
13 Howard 0623 Long Reach High High 91.2 7:50
15 Montgomery 0249 Clarksburg High High 91.1
15 Montgomery 0246 Northwest High High 91
15 Montgomery 0503 Sherwood High High 90.8
15 Montgomery 0424 Walter Johnson High High 90.7
15 Montgomery 0701 Damascus High High 90.5
15 Montgomery 0230 Rockville High High 90.4
15 Montgomery 0315 Paint Branch High High 90.3
13 Howard 0611 Oakland Mills High High 90 7:50
15 Montgomery 0104 Seneca Valley High High 90
15 Montgomery 0125 Quince Orchard High High 89.8
15 Montgomery 0916 Rock Terrace School High 89.4
15 Montgomery 0965 John L Gildner Regional Inst for Children & Adol High 89.1
13 Howard 0516 Wilde Lake High High 89 7:50
15 Montgomery 0757 Montgomery Blair High High 88.7
15 Montgomery 0798 Springbrook High High 88.7
15 Montgomery 0782 Wheaton High High 88.5
15 Montgomery 0321 James Hubert Blake High High 88.3
15 Montgomery 0510 Col. Zadok Magruder High High 88.2
15 Montgomery 0789 Albert Einstein High High 87.6
13 Howard 0522 Cedar Lane Special Center High 87.3
15 Montgomery 0951 Longview School High 86.5
10 Frederick 2613 Rock Creek High 86
15 Montgomery 0796 Northwood High High 86
15 Montgomery 0815 John F. Kennedy High High 85.9
15 Montgomery 0545 Watkins Mill High High 85.1
15 Montgomery 0799 Stephen Knolls School High 84.8
15 Montgomery 0551 Gaithersburg High High 83.8
10 Frederick 0208 Heather Ridge High 75.6
13 Howard 0080 Homewood School High 69.8

Thank you for using data and evidence to have this conversation rather than just thoughts and feelings.

The only problem with this is that often kids are marked absent when they are there. I don't bother fixing it anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what you get when you have unmotivated students from poor families. You think this is happening at Whitman or Churchill?

Sooooo my kid goes to Churchill and it's true that kids are pretty on the ball and the classroom culture is pretty conducive to learning. Part of that is that the principal and most teachers actually enforce things like the cell phone policy and wearing lanyards.

But on the rare occasion that I am dropping my kid off at 7:44 or 7:45, there are still a lot of kids in the drop off line. I think 1st period it's pretty typical to have kids roll in 5-10 minutes late. Not good. But it happens.

Part of it is that Churchill has kids with means, for the most part, so they have their own cars or friends with cars or parents who have the time and/or flexibility to get them to school on time. They don't (generally) have to care for siblings or work PT jobs that make them exhausted in the way that physical labor does. So yeah. It's definitely an equity issue.

Was just coming to post this. Having parents with the flexibility to drop off kids and/or means (we've had to Uber our kid a few times) is definitely a piece of this.

+1 I grew up as a latch key kid since 8. Had to get myself to school on time. If I didn't go to school, my parents would've beat me. As a matter of fact, my middle sibling ditched school all the time. They got bad grades, and yes, beat up a few times.

My parents were too busy working ow wage blue collar jobs to make sure we fed ourselves or got to school on time.

I woke up with my kids to make sure they got to school on time. By senior year, they could drive themselves with my car since I wfh.

I can imagine that for kids who are not motivated and don't have parental supervision at home to help them get to school on time, such kids could easily fall through the cracks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First period? Of course! High school starts way too early for teen brains. Science has already told us that teens experience a change in their circadian rhythms during adolescence that makes them fall asleep and wake up later than at other periods of their lives.

It was torture for my sleep-apnea suffering son to wake up on time. It's his worse memory of high school. He finally got an accommodation to skip first period in 12th grade.

My 15 year old DD gets to school on time, but reports that they're all super sleepy in first period. So teachers can have butts in seats, but no one's paying much attention at that time in the morning anyway.

We've all been going to school early for decades before we knew about this research. Guess what? We were seated in class when it started.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Somehow it looks like people are trying to use this issue to push school start times later.

So wanted to copy and paste the 2023-2024 attendance rates for high schools in the surrounding counties from mdreport card. I also looked up the bell times for the first three high schools for each school district. And I think it's safe to assume all of the high schools within a school system have the same bell times. So Montgomery County high schools have a 7:45 start, Frederick 7:30, and Howard 7:50.

Some things to note is that Richard Montgomery, 91.4, and Churchill, 93.4, only has a two percent difference in attendance rate.

And Howard County did try to implement later start times a year or two ago. But that and combined with outsourcing bus service, resulted in a diaster in bussing services and is likely one the reasons that resulted in the superintendent leaving. Kids were getting picked up and dropped off up to an hour late. And some of it was due to the smaller turnaround times for buses to go from school to school. ie buses usually do their high school routes first, then middle schools, then elementary schools.

And also MCPS did do a study on possibly changing bell times a while back, when families would protest in front of Central Office. It was determined it wasn't worth the cost or effort. But the parent groups kept protesting, so MCPS changed the bell times slightly to appease them.

But as shown in the numbers below, Frederick County has earlier start times, and schools with higher attendance rates to MCPS. So I don't think the answer is pushing back bell times.

Link to the file with attendance rates is here:
https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/DataDownloads/datadownload/3/17/6/99/XXXX/2025


By county (sorted by attendance rate descending):
LEA Name School Number School Name School Type Attend Rate Pct Bell time
Frederick A All Frederick Schools High 93.1 7:30
Howard A All Howard Schools High 92.5 7:50
Montgomery A All Montgomery Schools High 89.7 7:45




By school (sorted by attendance rate descending):

LEA Number LEA Name School Number School Name School Type Attend Rate Pct Bell time
13 Howard 0308 Marriotts Ridge High High >= 95.0 7:50
10 Frederick 0713 Urbana High High 94.9 7:30
10 Frederick 0912 Linganore High High 94.5 7:30
10 Frederick 0920 Oakdale High High 94.5 7:30
10 Frederick 0226 Monocacy Valley Montessori High 94.4
13 Howard 0214 Centennial High High 94.3 7:50
13 Howard 0524 River Hill High High 94.2 7:50
15 Montgomery 0427 Walt Whitman High High 94.1 7:45
10 Frederick 0313 Middletown High High 94
13 Howard 0404 Glenelg High High 94 7:50
15 Montgomery 0234 Thomas S. Wootton High High 94 7:45
13 Howard 0203 Howard High High 93.4 7:50
15 Montgomery 0152 Poolesville High High 93.4 7:45
15 Montgomery 0602 Winston Churchill High High 93.4
13 Howard 0509 Atholton High High 93.2 7:50
10 Frederick 2503 Brunswick High High 93
13 Howard 0207 Mount Hebron High High 93 7:50
13 Howard 0527 Reservoir High High 93 7:50
10 Frederick 1509 Catoctin High High 92.7
10 Frederick 2610 Walkersville High High 92.6
13 Howard 0619 Hammond High High 92.3 7:50
10 Frederick 2307 Tuscarora High High 92.2
15 Montgomery 0406 Bethesda-Chevy Chase High High 92
10 Frederick 0213 Gov. Thomas Johnson High High 91.9
13 Howard 0626 Guilford Park High High 91.6 7:50
15 Montgomery 0201 Richard Montgomery High High 91.4
10 Frederick 0209 Frederick High High 91.2
13 Howard 0623 Long Reach High High 91.2 7:50
15 Montgomery 0249 Clarksburg High High 91.1
15 Montgomery 0246 Northwest High High 91
15 Montgomery 0503 Sherwood High High 90.8
15 Montgomery 0424 Walter Johnson High High 90.7
15 Montgomery 0701 Damascus High High 90.5
15 Montgomery 0230 Rockville High High 90.4
15 Montgomery 0315 Paint Branch High High 90.3
13 Howard 0611 Oakland Mills High High 90 7:50
15 Montgomery 0104 Seneca Valley High High 90
15 Montgomery 0125 Quince Orchard High High 89.8
15 Montgomery 0916 Rock Terrace School High 89.4
15 Montgomery 0965 John L Gildner Regional Inst for Children & Adol High 89.1
13 Howard 0516 Wilde Lake High High 89 7:50
15 Montgomery 0757 Montgomery Blair High High 88.7
15 Montgomery 0798 Springbrook High High 88.7
15 Montgomery 0782 Wheaton High High 88.5
15 Montgomery 0321 James Hubert Blake High High 88.3
15 Montgomery 0510 Col. Zadok Magruder High High 88.2
15 Montgomery 0789 Albert Einstein High High 87.6
13 Howard 0522 Cedar Lane Special Center High 87.3
15 Montgomery 0951 Longview School High 86.5
10 Frederick 2613 Rock Creek High 86
15 Montgomery 0796 Northwood High High 86
15 Montgomery 0815 John F. Kennedy High High 85.9
15 Montgomery 0545 Watkins Mill High High 85.1
15 Montgomery 0799 Stephen Knolls School High 84.8
15 Montgomery 0551 Gaithersburg High High 83.8
10 Frederick 0208 Heather Ridge High 75.6
13 Howard 0080 Homewood School High 69.8

I’m not familiar with Frederick County and their school system. Does Frederick County have the same kind of population density as Montgomery County? Do they have similar traffic congestion? Do they have the same overcrowding in their schools? Do they have as many routes per bus? Do they have as many students attending schools they aren’t zoned for by their home address? Do they have the same FARMs rate? Were they equally lax about tardiness post Covid?

I tried finding the numbers for Fairfax county because think that they should be more similar to Montgomery county in terms of size, infrastructure(roads and traffic) and demographics. It was a little bit more difficult because it looks like Virginia only reports chronic absenteeism. So I put those numbers with the chronic absenteeism numbers from the mdreportcard data download.

The numbers should somewhat correlate to attendance rates but are not exactly the same, because the focus is on chronically absent students.

It looks like Fairfax County has a later start time than MCPS, with most high schools starting at 8:10, with some schools starting at 8:00. And their chronic absenteeism numbers are a lot lower than MCPS's. So there can be an argument that later bell times would indeed improve attendance and chronic absence rates.

But the question is would that extra ten or twenty minutes really make a difference? Then you still have those schools with earlier bell times that have lower chronic absence rates, such as Urbana, Marriotts Ridge, Whitman, etc.

Apparently I don't know much about schools in Fairfax County. But Bryant High and Mountain View appear to be alternative education schools. So I think Justice High might be the traditional school, which according to Google also has an IB program, that has the highest chronic absenteeism rate in Fairfax County. And while their rate is still better than a lot of other schools in the surrounding counties, there are still other schools in other school systems with earlier bell times and lower chronic absenteeism rates. So I'm not entirely convinced that the better rates are due to just the later bell times.

Also in regards to others suggesting possibly adjusting after school activities. As others mentioned, in the fall the day gets shorter where by mid October there is very little light on school fields by 6:15ish. So let's say for something like rec soccer, this reduces amount of time that a league can assign fields to. And a lot of rec teams are coached by parent volunteers. So trying to move the activities to before school would ask parent volunteers, who already give a lot of their time and effort, to give that time during normal working hours as well. So would potentially upend some longrunning and established organizations and activities in the area, which I understand not everyone is interested in.

And as mentioned, Howard County tried to implement later bell times but it didn't work and they had to change the times earlier during the school year to fix some of the issues. Although some of their issues were also due to the new nonlocal vendor as well:
https://www.wbaltv.com/article/howard-county-public-schools-new-start-times/45126415


The data for Fairfax and Virginia Public Schools is available here:

https://schoolquality.virginia.gov

I'm not as familiar with the Virginia site and am having trouble trying to filter the data for just high schools. But for all schools it looks like the rate is 12.8 percent.

Numbers are sorted by chronic absence rate in descending order.

So for the counties:

LEA Name School Number School Name School Type Chronic Absentee Pct
Montgomery A All Montgomery Schools High 33.4
Howard A All Howard Schools High 23.3
Frederick A All Frederick Schools High 20.8
Fairfax A All Fairfax Schools (including ES and MS) All Schools 12.8

By schools:

LEA Name School Number School Name School Type Chronic Absentee Pct
Howard 0080 Homewood School High 82.6
Fairfax Fairfax County Adult High 72.86
Fairfax Bryant High 67.83
Frederick 0208 Heather Ridge High 60.9
Fairfax Mountain View High 60
Frederick 2613 Rock Creek High 54.1
Montgomery 0551 Gaithersburg High High 51.9
Montgomery 0545 Watkins Mill High High 51.1
Montgomery 0951 Longview School High 48.1
Montgomery 0815 John F. Kennedy High High 46.2
Montgomery 0799 Stephen Knolls School High 46.2
Montgomery 0796 Northwood High High 44.7
Montgomery 0789 Albert Einstein High High 42.3
Montgomery 0965 John L Gildner Regional Inst for Children & Adol High 41.2
Howard 0522 Cedar Lane Special Center High 40.7
Montgomery 0321 James Hubert Blake High High 40.6
Montgomery 0510 Col. Zadok Magruder High High 40.5
Howard 0516 Wilde Lake High High 38.7
Montgomery 0798 Springbrook High High 38.5
Montgomery 0424 Walter Johnson High High 37.3
Montgomery 0782 Wheaton High High 36.3
Montgomery 0757 Montgomery Blair High High 35.6
Montgomery 0125 Quince Orchard High High 35.4
Howard 0611 Oakland Mills High High 34.7
Montgomery 0104 Seneca Valley High High 34.3
Montgomery 0916 Rock Terrace School High 33.3
Montgomery 0701 Damascus High High 31.5
Montgomery 0230 Rockville High High 30.8
Howard 0623 Long Reach High High 30.3
Montgomery 0315 Paint Branch High High 30.3
Montgomery 0249 Clarksburg High High 29.5
Montgomery 0503 Sherwood High High 29.4
Howard 0626 Guilford Park High High 29.3
Montgomery 0201 Richard Montgomery High High 29.3
Frederick 0213 Gov. Thomas Johnson High High 28.1
Frederick 0209 Frederick High High 27.9
Montgomery 0246 Northwest High High 27.6
Howard 0619 Hammond High High 26.8
Frederick 1509 Catoctin High High 24.4
Frederick 2610 Walkersville High High 24.1
Frederick 2307 Tuscarora High High 24
Montgomery 0406 Bethesda-Chevy Chase High High 23.6
Howard 0527 Reservoir High High 23.1
Frederick 2503 Brunswick High High 22.7
Howard 0207 Mount Hebron High High 21.5
Fairfax Justice High 21.36
Howard 0509 Atholton High High 21
Fairfax Lewis High 20.51
Montgomery 0152 Poolesville High High 19.9
Fairfax Chantilly High 19.83
Fairfax West Potomac High 19.8
Fairfax South Lakes High 19.22
Howard 0203 Howard High High 18.8
Montgomery 0602 Winston Churchill High High 18.6
Fairfax Edison High 18.23
Fairfax Mount Vernon High 17.96
Fairfax Annandale High 17.5
Fairfax Centreville High 17.4
Fairfax Herndon High 17.38
Fairfax Falls Church High 17.33
Montgomery 0234 Thomas S. Wootton High High 16.7
Howard 0404 Glenelg High High 16.6
Fairfax Fairfax High 16.43
Frederick 0313 Middletown High High 16.2
Howard 0214 Centennial High High 16
Fairfax Oakton High 15.91
Montgomery 0427 Walt Whitman High High 15.7
Fairfax Westfield High 15.35
Fairfax South County High 15.08
Frederick 0226 Monocacy Valley Montessori High 15
Howard 0524 River Hill High High 14.9
Fairfax Marshall High 14.77
Frederick 0920 Oakdale High High 14.3
Frederick 0912 Linganore High High 14.2
Fairfax Madison High 13.46
Howard 0308 Marriotts Ridge High High 13.2
Fairfax Woodson High 12.73
Frederick 0713 Urbana High High 12.6
Fairfax McLean High 11.42
Fairfax West Springfield High 11.14
Fairfax Langley High 7.38

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And, the other advantage of early start is parents can drive the kids to school if they miss the bus or there is no bus. Many of us cannot do that with an 8:30 start and long commute.

Some people want to base the school bell times on what is most beneficial for the largest number of students, not what is convenient for parents.

Best for the kids is earlier start so they can fit in activities, sports, work, homework and other things and go to bed at a reasonable time.

Parents could lose their jobs if late. There is no morning care option in hs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this problem is at all limited to first period, but I do think having such early start times might contribute to overall truancy because for parents who struggle to get their kids to school on time (or kids who struggle to get there on their own) it starts the day off on the wrong foot.

I've worked a lot with kids who have school avoidance issues. One thing you discover is that for a kid who is has a lot of reasons for not wanting to be at school (the most common are social issues or learning problems that make school a stressful and unwelcoming place for them), how the day starts matters. You can turn around a kid who is very school avoidant with a good homeroom teacher who starts the day off on a good note, for instance. It doesn't change the rest of the day at all but it will help that kid get through the door and in the seat, and once he's there, he is way less likely to leave.

If, on the other hand, there are major obstacles to the very first part of the day, the avoidance is triggered first thing in the morning, and it's hard to get that kid to go in even after that initial obstacle is over (i.e. to get the kid to go to 2nd period even if it's a class they like okay and it doesn't have the issues that homeroom does).

So having an early start time and a culture of absenteeism in homerooms, and then the school just tacitly overlooking that absenteeism, is going to impact the full day attendance because for any kid who has reasons for wanting to avoid school, you've just provided them with multiple reasons not to show up for the start of school, which is going to roll into the rest of the day for these kids. You need to find a way to get them sitting in that homeroom seat to start the day.

I think pushing start times back 30 minutes would help a lot. I know there are issues with buses and coordinating with elementary and middle school start times. But that doesn't change the fact that the early start is likely contributing to overall truancy.

I can buy the argument that early start times are negative in the ways you say, but I don't buy that pushing the start time back 30 minutes would help. Kids will inevitably just stay up later.

So then you get to the question what level of start time would help and align with adolescent development. My guess is 1-1.5 hours, but I can't how the system could function with a start time that is delayed for high schools.

Between activities, sports and homework, if schools started an hour later, they'd have to stay up an hour later to fit everything in or get up even earlier to do sports before school which defeats the purpose. On game nights, they may not get home till 10 and then still have homework, so that pushes games back to what 11?

Yes, that’s the whole point. For the majority of teenagers, both starting and ending their day later better aligns with their circadian rhythms. The idea is to fit their schedule to their optimal sleep patterns instead of fighting biology by trying to fit their sleep into a schedule that prioritizes the convenience of adults.

You know what helps more, being engaged in things they enjoy. My kids should not be going to bed at 12-1 pm because you refuse to enforce bedtime. Mine should not give up their activities and sports because you refuse to parent.

They don’t need to give up any activity or get less sleep. You just shift everything by a modest amount of time. There are still 24 hours in a day. They’ll get home one hour later, go to bed one hour later, get up in the morning one hour later. It’s no different that when our clocks change by an hour to switch from standard time to daylight savings time and back. If you enforce a bedtime, there should be zero issues.

So, if my kids have an activity from 7-9, that shifts one hour to 8-10 or it stays the same but then they have to come home and study so they go to bed an hour later so there is zero benefit except to you not having to enforce household rules. Some kids are out till 8-9-10 regularly even with school activities. They wouldn’t go to bed at the same time, they’d go to bed at least an hour later.

Why is it we can get our kids to school and you cannot?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this problem is at all limited to first period, but I do think having such early start times might contribute to overall truancy because for parents who struggle to get their kids to school on time (or kids who struggle to get there on their own) it starts the day off on the wrong foot.

I've worked a lot with kids who have school avoidance issues. One thing you discover is that for a kid who is has a lot of reasons for not wanting to be at school (the most common are social issues or learning problems that make school a stressful and unwelcoming place for them), how the day starts matters. You can turn around a kid who is very school avoidant with a good homeroom teacher who starts the day off on a good note, for instance. It doesn't change the rest of the day at all but it will help that kid get through the door and in the seat, and once he's there, he is way less likely to leave.

If, on the other hand, there are major obstacles to the very first part of the day, the avoidance is triggered first thing in the morning, and it's hard to get that kid to go in even after that initial obstacle is over (i.e. to get the kid to go to 2nd period even if it's a class they like okay and it doesn't have the issues that homeroom does).

So having an early start time and a culture of absenteeism in homerooms, and then the school just tacitly overlooking that absenteeism, is going to impact the full day attendance because for any kid who has reasons for wanting to avoid school, you've just provided them with multiple reasons not to show up for the start of school, which is going to roll into the rest of the day for these kids. You need to find a way to get them sitting in that homeroom seat to start the day.

I think pushing start times back 30 minutes would help a lot. I know there are issues with buses and coordinating with elementary and middle school start times. But that doesn't change the fact that the early start is likely contributing to overall truancy.

I can buy the argument that early start times are negative in the ways you say, but I don't buy that pushing the start time back 30 minutes would help. Kids will inevitably just stay up later.

So then you get to the question what level of start time would help and align with adolescent development. My guess is 1-1.5 hours, but I can't how the system could function with a start time that is delayed for high schools.

Between activities, sports and homework, if schools started an hour later, they'd have to stay up an hour later to fit everything in or get up even earlier to do sports before school which defeats the purpose. On game nights, they may not get home till 10 and then still have homework, so that pushes games back to what 11?

Obviously preserving the sanctity of 3 hour game nights on school nights should be top priority for educating our children.

Weekends would be far better but they only have limited fields and locations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Forgot, that Howard County has always outsourced bus service. That year Howard County outsourced to a specific nonlocal company that was supposed to be cutting edge, very technology focused. That offered things like an app to show real time bus locations.

Just put a tracker on your kid. I would not want a bus tracked for safety reasons.

[Anonymous]

I was curious because when looking up the chronic absence rates for Fairfax County it said it went up to the high teens and maybe low 20s but the 2023-2024 number was 12.8 percent.

So found articles like this one in what Fairfax County is doing to address chronic absenteeism:

https://wtop.com/fairfax-county/2023/11/how-fairfax-co-is-responding-to-a-rise-in-student-absenteeism/

https://era.cehd.gmu.edu/resources/chronic-absenteeism

Note that neither of the links above mentioned pushing back bell times. And a lot of it is increasing family and student engagement.

Although Fairfax does have later start times than MCPS, so can't say that later bell times are not a factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this problem is at all limited to first period, but I do think having such early start times might contribute to overall truancy because for parents who struggle to get their kids to school on time (or kids who struggle to get there on their own) it starts the day off on the wrong foot.

I've worked a lot with kids who have school avoidance issues. One thing you discover is that for a kid who is has a lot of reasons for not wanting to be at school (the most common are social issues or learning problems that make school a stressful and unwelcoming place for them), how the day starts matters. You can turn around a kid who is very school avoidant with a good homeroom teacher who starts the day off on a good note, for instance. It doesn't change the rest of the day at all but it will help that kid get through the door and in the seat, and once he's there, he is way less likely to leave.

If, on the other hand, there are major obstacles to the very first part of the day, the avoidance is triggered first thing in the morning, and it's hard to get that kid to go in even after that initial obstacle is over (i.e. to get the kid to go to 2nd period even if it's a class they like okay and it doesn't have the issues that homeroom does).

So having an early start time and a culture of absenteeism in homerooms, and then the school just tacitly overlooking that absenteeism, is going to impact the full day attendance because for any kid who has reasons for wanting to avoid school, you've just provided them with multiple reasons not to show up for the start of school, which is going to roll into the rest of the day for these kids. You need to find a way to get them sitting in that homeroom seat to start the day.

I think pushing start times back 30 minutes would help a lot. I know there are issues with buses and coordinating with elementary and middle school start times. But that doesn't change the fact that the early start is likely contributing to overall truancy.

I can buy the argument that early start times are negative in the ways you say, but I don't buy that pushing the start time back 30 minutes would help. Kids will inevitably just stay up later.

So then you get to the question what level of start time would help and align with adolescent development. My guess is 1-1.5 hours, but I can't how the system could function with a start time that is delayed for high schools.

Between activities, sports and homework, if schools started an hour later, they'd have to stay up an hour later to fit everything in or get up even earlier to do sports before school which defeats the purpose. On game nights, they may not get home till 10 and then still have homework, so that pushes games back to what 11?

Yes, that’s the whole point. For the majority of teenagers, both starting and ending their day later better aligns with their circadian rhythms. The idea is to fit their schedule to their optimal sleep patterns instead of fighting biology by trying to fit their sleep into a schedule that prioritizes the convenience of adults.

You know what helps more, being engaged in things they enjoy. My kids should not be going to bed at 12-1 pm because you refuse to enforce bedtime. Mine should not give up their activities and sports because you refuse to parent.

They don’t need to give up any activity or get less sleep. You just shift everything by a modest amount of time. There are still 24 hours in a day. They’ll get home one hour later, go to bed one hour later, get up in the morning one hour later. It’s no different that when our clocks change by an hour to switch from standard time to daylight savings time and back. If you enforce a bedtime, there should be zero issues.

So, if my kids have an activity from 7-9, that shifts one hour to 8-10 or it stays the same but then they have to come home and study so they go to bed an hour later so there is zero benefit except to you not having to enforce household rules. Some kids are out till 8-9-10 regularly even with school activities. They wouldn’t go to bed at the same time, they’d go to bed at least an hour later.

Why is it we can get our kids to school and you cannot?

It doesn’t matter that your kids would go to bed an hour later because they would get to sleep in an hour later. Same number of hours in the day, same activities, same amount of sleep.

The benefit to changing high school start time is that the majority of teens cannot fall asleep early even if they are tired. A later school start time and later bedtime better aligns with teens’ natural biological rhythms. We can maintain the status quo and teens can go through life feeling chronically tired, just like night shift workers do, but that’s not great for their health.

My kids are there when school starts at 7:45, but that’s not what’s best for them. However, it really doesn’t matter what’s best for my individual family or your individual family; what matters is what is most beneficial to either the majority of students or the students with the fewest resources. Maybe that’s a schedule that aligns to natural sleep patterns. Maybe that’s the status quo so they can provide childcare for younger siblings. Our demographics have changed since MCPS studied this more than a decade ago and there are lots of changes to school programs and boundaries coming in the near future. The last study will soon be totally obsolete.