Woke is not negative

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump has gotten millions of Christians to hate Jesus. I mean it's brilliant, and so cruel, if you think about it.

Democrats have gotten millions of US workers to abandoned the party of labor. Just amazing.

But you got your million H1Bs and OPTs working cheaply for Silicon Valley masters.

Republicans didn't do that? Just look at Trump himself - he brought in tons of foreign labor on visa to work at Mar A Lago and his golf resorts to work there cheaply and undercut American labor. Even two of his wives, Ivana and Melania, were foreign imports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s exactly correct OP. It is also why MAGA and Republicans are seeking to destroy public education, particularly science, history, and critical thinking skills. Same for the MAGA-Republican crusade against top colleges and universities. The MAGA base is largely uneducated and therefore controllable. Republicans want to force the rest of the U.S. into the same dumb and incapable state. Then the wealthiest, who can afford private education, will hold the power and control the masses.

It’s a time-tested recipe for a society run by a small, rich, educated elite over the poor uneducated masses. Republicans have used social issues to fool MAGA into thinking these changes will benefit them. It’s sad for those suckers but the rest of us need to ensure it doesnt happen to the rest of us and our kids.

Not much left to destroy since school stopped with phonics, spelling, allowing close enough answers in math (eg, 1+1=3), school boards focuses on issues other than education, etc. The Dems do not have the high ground in education. Neither party deserves respect. Only people who don’t think believe in and trust the blue/red party.

Should we talk about what your MAGA side is doing to education? Red states have the poorest educational outcomes in America. Red states are ignoring reading and math proficiency while promoting Christian prayer, revisionist history and science denial.

So “red states” have lower educational outcomes than Baltimore City public schools?


Can you back this up with some sources?

DP and MAGA. Right now, it’s a true statement that blue states tend to have better educational outcomes. That's not the whole story, though. Cities tend to have poor educational outcomes in public schools. And, the trajectory of the states are starting to diverge, with blue states posting significant declines in test scores, possibly due to prolonged school closures for covid (cite: https://www.economist.com/united-states/2025/03/17/the-pandemic-hit-pupils-hardest-in-americas-democrat-leaning-states?utm_source=chatgpt.com). Meanwhile, southern red states are showing rapid increases, particularly in Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana and Florida. So while blue states have historically had better outcomes, their current policies are causing declines while red state current policies are causing increases.

People posture otherwise, but every serious person knows in their bones that the primary drivers of educational outcomes are things other than the political allegiance of local and national elected officials

Do you think it's fair that someone with lower test scores, fewer rigorous courses and lower grades gets a seat at a state college in a hard sciences major? I don't. (White woman)

Oh, white woman. I pity you. Can anyone Google the position they're arguing? I mean really....

[url]https://www.yahoo.com/news/whos-face-dei-sure-not-060000528.html
[/url]

[Anonymous]

pp, for your edification:https://www.yahoo.com/news/whos-face-dei-sure-not-060000528.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MAGA stole the term and uses it negatively. Do they even know what it really means? It is simply someone who is informed, educated and conscious of social injustice, prejudice, oppression and inequality. So they dont want to be informed and educated? We are evil and wrong to be informed and educated about society? We let MAGA steal this word and use it negatively just like we let them steal the American flag as if it only represents them.

Within the discipline of linguistics, there’s a longstanding and fundamental disagreement between so-called descriptivists and so-called prescriptivists. Descriptivists (tend to dominate academia) believe that language is how you use it; if the Latin fabulare evolves into Spanish hablar, so be it and that’s the order of things. Prescriptivists (who tend to dominate academia, say, professional editing and publishing) believe that there are “proper” standards that are rooted in some exogenous source of authority that determine what is right.

The take in this thread is a dumb melange of the two. It presupposes that the ungrammatical use of a transitive verb’s simple past form (wake —> woke) may be permissibly substituted in place of a similar intransitive verb’s past passive participle (awake —> awakened) when employed in the context of social commentary but that that same word may not permissibly carry a connotation ascribed to it by its skeptics. This is a “heads-I-win, tails-you-lose” argument manufactured to impose a progressive orthodoxy on a narrow slice of linguistics.

Surely those who welcome thoughtful critiques of power structures will recognize I am right!

It is easier to complain about MAGA use of woke than to admit that wokism was and is a tool of the elites used to strip power, including the most basic power of language, from the lower classes. It is and always was a movement designed to keep power centralized and to keep the working classes from unifying.

Personally, I think elites’ arrogation of the right to revise rules of language is one of the more effective strategies they’ve pursued when you layer on the ease of gaslighting people who notice (“lol, triggered by pronouns much?”, “lol, yeah, it’s a real *war* on Christmas, okay bub”, “the word ‘partner’ is simply more inclusive, not a big deal”)

PP here and I agree. The use of woke to police language was and is an extremely effective strategy the elite used and still use to continue their repression of the working classes. Part of the anger and bewilderment from people like OP is that there has been a small reclamation of language from the wealthy elites. OP is angry that her linguistic tool of oppression is slightly less effective than it used to be.

How is this twisted into an "elites assault on the working class" thing? Somehow the working class suddenly does not include any marginalized people? Everyone in the working class is straight, white, male and Christian?

Seems to me you didn't really mean "working class" when you said "working class."

Minorities are also put off by the woke messaging. That's why they are voting republican at historic rates. They are still primarily voting democratic, but that support is eroding rather than increasing amid wokeness.

Wokeness is inherently anti-male, and the working class isn't as susceptible to aspirations of performative maleness. That's mostly a middle class and UMC thing that doesn't resonate among the working class or the rich.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MAGA stole the term and uses it negatively. Do they even know what it really means? It is simply someone who is informed, educated and conscious of social injustice, prejudice, oppression and inequality. So they dont want to be informed and educated? We are evil and wrong to be informed and educated about society? We let MAGA steal this word and use it negatively just like we let them steal the American flag as if it only represents them.

Well stated!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:pp, for your edification:https://www.yahoo.com/news/whos-face-dei-sure-not-060000528.html

DP. The pp just told you she doesn't agree with non-merit based selections. She's not obligated to agree with it just because she's from a demographic that benefits from it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MAGA stole the term and uses it negatively. Do they even know what it really means? It is simply someone who is informed, educated and conscious of social injustice, prejudice, oppression and inequality. So they dont want to be informed and educated? We are evil and wrong to be informed and educated about society? We let MAGA steal this word and use it negatively just like we let them steal the American flag as if it only represents them.

Woke is very negative.
The maga didn't make it negative.
The ones calling everybody racist and transphobes and cancelling people were the ones that made it negative.

Wrong.

How ignorant of you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Woke are elitists who don’t care about reality, don’t care about the actual suffering of the working class, are happy to virtue signal for each other and will quickly cancel anyone who steps out of line. They are hypocrites with no principles.

Reality meaning your reality of wanting to keep women, brown people, gay people, etc in their place so you can continue to flourish with your white privilege? Or what exactly do you mean by suffering of the working class? How is being educated and aware of social injustice causing you to suffer?

Since when has Trump cared about the working class? He promised us cheaper groceries and housing and gas but instead we got none of those and in fact many of our goods are getting even more expensive.

+1

But no outrage. Strange.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MAGA stole the term and uses it negatively. Do they even know what it really means? It is simply someone who is informed, educated and conscious of social injustice, prejudice, oppression and inequality. So they dont want to be informed and educated? We are evil and wrong to be informed and educated about society? We let MAGA steal this word and use it negatively just like we let them steal the American flag as if it only represents them.

Maybe you could start a protest movement to take back the word. Go march around in circles or block a highway or metro train line so no one can get to work in the morning. That’s the ticket.

Nope.

Just don't let MAGA, Fox News, Christopher Ruffo, and the right-wing media misuse the word and meaning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MAGA stole the term and uses it negatively. Do they even know what it really means? It is simply someone who is informed, educated and conscious of social injustice, prejudice, oppression and inequality. So they dont want to be informed and educated? We are evil and wrong to be informed and educated about society? We let MAGA steal this word and use it negatively just like we let them steal the American flag as if it only represents them.

Maybe you could start a protest movement to take back the word. Go march around in circles or block a highway or metro train line so no one can get to work in the morning. That’s the ticket.

Nope.

Just don't let MAGA, Fox News, Christopher Ruffo, and the right-wing media misuse the word and meaning.

Best of luck in your speech policing crusade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MAGA stole the term and uses it negatively. Do they even know what it really means? It is simply someone who is informed, educated and conscious of social injustice, prejudice, oppression and inequality. So they dont want to be informed and educated? We are evil and wrong to be informed and educated about society? We let MAGA steal this word and use it negatively just like we let them steal the American flag as if it only represents them.

Within the discipline of linguistics, there’s a longstanding and fundamental disagreement between so-called descriptivists and so-called prescriptivists. Descriptivists (tend to dominate academia) believe that language is how you use it; if the Latin fabulare evolves into Spanish hablar, so be it and that’s the order of things. Prescriptivists (who tend to dominate academia, say, professional editing and publishing) believe that there are “proper” standards that are rooted in some exogenous source of authority that determine what is right.

The take in this thread is a dumb melange of the two. It presupposes that the ungrammatical use of a transitive verb’s simple past form (wake —> woke) may be permissibly substituted in place of a similar intransitive verb’s past passive participle (awake —> awakened) when employed in the context of social commentary but that that same word may not permissibly carry a connotation ascribed to it by its skeptics. This is a “heads-I-win, tails-you-lose” argument manufactured to impose a progressive orthodoxy on a narrow slice of linguistics.

Surely those who welcome thoughtful critiques of power structures will recognize I am right!

This answer is like ChatGPT on meth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:pp, for your edification:https://www.yahoo.com/news/whos-face-dei-sure-not-060000528.html

DP. The pp just told you she doesn't agree with non-merit based selections. She's not obligated to agree with it just because she's from a demographic that benefits from it.

Please. If she thought it benefitted white people, she wouldn't have identified herself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s exactly correct OP. It is also why MAGA and Republicans are seeking to destroy public education, particularly science, history, and critical thinking skills. Same for the MAGA-Republican crusade against top colleges and universities. The MAGA base is largely uneducated and therefore controllable. Republicans want to force the rest of the U.S. into the same dumb and incapable state. Then the wealthiest, who can afford private education, will hold the power and control the masses.

It’s a time-tested recipe for a society run by a small, rich, educated elite over the poor uneducated masses. Republicans have used social issues to fool MAGA into thinking these changes will benefit them. It’s sad for those suckers but the rest of us need to ensure it doesnt happen to the rest of us and our kids.

Not much left to destroy since school stopped with phonics, spelling, allowing close enough answers in math (eg, 1+1=3), school boards focuses on issues other than education, etc. The Dems do not have the high ground in education. Neither party deserves respect. Only people who don’t think believe in and trust the blue/red party.

Should we talk about what your MAGA side is doing to education? Red states have the poorest educational outcomes in America. Red states are ignoring reading and math proficiency while promoting Christian prayer, revisionist history and science denial.

So “red states” have lower educational outcomes than Baltimore City public schools?


Can you back this up with some sources?

DP and MAGA. Right now, it’s a true statement that blue states tend to have better educational outcomes. That's not the whole story, though. Cities tend to have poor educational outcomes in public schools. And, the trajectory of the states are starting to diverge, with blue states posting significant declines in test scores, possibly due to prolonged school closures for covid (cite: https://www.economist.com/united-states/2025/03/17/the-pandemic-hit-pupils-hardest-in-americas-democrat-leaning-states?utm_source=chatgpt.com). Meanwhile, southern red states are showing rapid increases, particularly in Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana and Florida. So while blue states have historically had better outcomes, their current policies are causing declines while red state current policies are causing increases.

People posture otherwise, but every serious person knows in their bones that the primary drivers of educational outcomes are things other than the political allegiance of local and national elected officials

Do you think it's fair that someone with lower test scores, fewer rigorous courses and lower grades gets a seat at a state college in a hard sciences major? I don't. (White woman)

White legacies have been doing that for centuries. Still do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s exactly correct OP. It is also why MAGA and Republicans are seeking to destroy public education, particularly science, history, and critical thinking skills. Same for the MAGA-Republican crusade against top colleges and universities. The MAGA base is largely uneducated and therefore controllable. Republicans want to force the rest of the U.S. into the same dumb and incapable state. Then the wealthiest, who can afford private education, will hold the power and control the masses.

It’s a time-tested recipe for a society run by a small, rich, educated elite over the poor uneducated masses. Republicans have used social issues to fool MAGA into thinking these changes will benefit them. It’s sad for those suckers but the rest of us need to ensure it doesnt happen to the rest of us and our kids.

Not much left to destroy since school stopped with phonics, spelling, allowing close enough answers in math (eg, 1+1=3), school boards focuses on issues other than education, etc. The Dems do not have the high ground in education. Neither party deserves respect. Only people who don’t think believe in and trust the blue/red party.

Should we talk about what your MAGA side is doing to education? Red states have the poorest educational outcomes in America. Red states are ignoring reading and math proficiency while promoting Christian prayer, revisionist history and science denial.

So “red states” have lower educational outcomes than Baltimore City public schools?


Can you back this up with some sources?

DP and MAGA. Right now, it’s a true statement that blue states tend to have better educational outcomes. That's not the whole story, though. Cities tend to have poor educational outcomes in public schools. And, the trajectory of the states are starting to diverge, with blue states posting significant declines in test scores, possibly due to prolonged school closures for covid (cite: https://www.economist.com/united-states/2025/03/17/the-pandemic-hit-pupils-hardest-in-americas-democrat-leaning-states?utm_source=chatgpt.com). Meanwhile, southern red states are showing rapid increases, particularly in Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana and Florida. So while blue states have historically had better outcomes, their current policies are causing declines while red state current policies are causing increases.

People posture otherwise, but every serious person knows in their bones that the primary drivers of educational outcomes are things other than the political allegiance of local and national elected officials

Do you think it's fair that someone with lower test scores, fewer rigorous courses and lower grades gets a seat at a state college in a hard sciences major? I don't. (White woman)

White legacies have been doing that for centuries. Still do.

So it's about righting the ship?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MAGA stole the term and uses it negatively. Do they even know what it really means? It is simply someone who is informed, educated and conscious of social injustice, prejudice, oppression and inequality. So they dont want to be informed and educated? We are evil and wrong to be informed and educated about society? We let MAGA steal this word and use it negatively just like we let them steal the American flag as if it only represents them.

Woke is very negative.
The maga didn't make it negative.
The ones calling everybody racist and transphobes and cancelling people were the ones that made it negative.

Wrong.

How ignorant of you.

This really epitomizes the issue people have with wokeness. If you look at this thread, the posters on the left aren't actually engaging with any of the answers posted by people critical of wokeness. They just saying things like this-- no analysis offered, entirely designed to insult and ridicule with no element of persuasion. And maybe most interestingly, the level of rhetoric is really fairly simplistic, yet they accuse everyone else of being uneducated and ignorant despite their own posts suggesting that they are the least educated posters.