The "village". Why communal child rearing doesn't translate easily to American culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you’re incorrect. I think it comes down to the fact that American women can earn money and aren’t interested in providing free labor for others. I’d argue people in your village didn’t have good opportunities, including even leisure activities, and were expected to provide unpaid labor.

Individualism mindset. Refusal to help each other even though it is what is best for everyone. “Free Labor” you mean helping out your family members???

DP
I would consider that free labor as it mostly falls unfairly to women who are treated as "less than" - in other cultures and in ours.

+100000

A village just means relying on unpaid female labor. That’s it. Usually because people don’t have any money or means to outsource care.

Many Americans help out family members. There’s a difference between occasionally helping a family member out, and being a full time caregiver.

#1, not necessarily, #2, if “unpaid labor” is reciprocated, it doesn’t really matter that it’s “female labor.”

I have seen how this works in my family. People contribute their time, their knowledge, their skills. Your 2nd cousin the doctor will come with you to your appointment when you’ve gotten a bad diagnosis. Your rich brother will pitch in so you go on a nicer vacation with him or get your kids nice things for school. Your older relative will watch your kids after school (NOT full time caregiving!!). It’s a social safety net. Right now Americans don’t have that- from the government or their families. We’re big losers.

Exactly. We are middle eastern Americans and this is how we operate!

I think the two of you are being disingenuous. Typical of posts that claim an entire area instead of a specific culture. Anyway sure there's some positives to "village" concept of raising children.family but there are also drawbacks.

Disingenuous in what sense? Middle eastern communities have strong social ties based on family but also religion, proximity and ethnic origin. It’s a major support through life. This isn’t really controversial.

As a second generation immigrant I am intimately familiar with both cultures and it’s pretty obvious that the “village” is just a lot healthier emotionally. This isn’t “propaganda” for women to stop working either. All of the women in my family work demanding jobs. In fact the men feel a broader responsibility towards their extended families as well.

The drawbacks (mostly a push to conformity) pale in comparison to the benefits in my opinion. I am seeing it right now as a family member goes through cancer. She feels very supported and loved in a very scary time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My inlaws don't even want to take my kids out for ice cream, let alone babysit.

Even when we visit my inlaws as a family of 4, they essentially want the children to be seen and not heard so they can talk to us (the adults.)

Since my own mom passed away prematurely and I'm not close with my dad, my children have zero concept of what a caring, loving grandparent relationship looks like.

This is my situation too. Grandparents who have zero interest in having any kind of active presence in the kids life. I would literally pass out if they ever called and said “we are picking up the kids on Saturday to take them to the zoo etc…” They would absolutely never. They value quiet and the least amount of disruption to their lives as possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My inlaws don't even want to take my kids out for ice cream, let alone babysit.

Even when we visit my inlaws as a family of 4, they essentially want the children to be seen and not heard so they can talk to us (the adults.)

Since my own mom passed away prematurely and I'm not close with my dad, my children have zero concept of what a caring, loving grandparent relationship looks like.

This is my situation too. Grandparents who have zero interest in having any kind of active presence in the kids life. I would literally pass out if they ever called and said “we are picking up the kids on Saturday to take them to the zoo etc…” They would absolutely never. They value quiet and the least amount of disruption to their lives as possible.

This is my situation with one set of grandparents (his). Luckily my parents are very involved! It’s bizarre to me why someone wouldn’t be interested in their grandchildren but oh well.

[Anonymous]

The elders will hold the ground so the children will play!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is all very obvious. Collectivist cultures Also have a high degree of respect for the elderly. Even if they're MAGA, obese, hillbilly boomers.
Won't happen here.

Those cultures typically don't allow the elderly to destroy their society, so there's naturally less resentment towards them. They also typically don't spend millions of dollars on chronic or terminal conditions in an ultimately futile attempt to reject mortality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you’re incorrect. I think it comes down to the fact that American women can earn money and aren’t interested in providing free labor for others. I’d argue people in your village didn’t have good opportunities, including even leisure activities, and were expected to provide unpaid labor.

Individualism mindset. Refusal to help each other even though it is what is best for everyone. “Free Labor” you mean helping out your family members???

DP
I would consider that free labor as it mostly falls unfairly to women who are treated as "less than" - in other cultures and in ours.

+100000

A village just means relying on unpaid female labor. That’s it. Usually because people don’t have any money or means to outsource care.

Many Americans help out family members. There’s a difference between occasionally helping a family member out, and being a full time caregiver.

#1, not necessarily, #2, if “unpaid labor” is reciprocated, it doesn’t really matter that it’s “female labor.”

I have seen how this works in my family. People contribute their time, their knowledge, their skills. Your 2nd cousin the doctor will come with you to your appointment when you’ve gotten a bad diagnosis. Your rich brother will pitch in so you go on a nicer vacation with him or get your kids nice things for school. Your older relative will watch your kids after school (NOT full time caregiving!!). It’s a social safety net. Right now Americans don’t have that- from the government or their families. We’re big losers.

Exactly. We are middle eastern Americans and this is how we operate!

I think the two of you are being disingenuous. Typical of posts that claim an entire area instead of a specific culture. Anyway sure there's some positives to "village" concept of raising children.family but there are also drawbacks.

Disingenuous in what sense? Middle eastern communities have strong social ties based on family but also religion, proximity and ethnic origin. It’s a major support through life. This isn’t really controversial.

As a second generation immigrant I am intimately familiar with both cultures and it’s pretty obvious that the “village” is just a lot healthier emotionally. This isn’t “propaganda” for women to stop working either. All of the women in my family work demanding jobs. In fact the men feel a broader responsibility towards their extended families as well.

The drawbacks (mostly a push to conformity) pale in comparison to the benefits in my opinion. I am seeing it right now as a family member goes through cancer. She feels very supported and loved in a very scary time.

PP I get it. I am from a similar culture (i know if I post it, that will just result in racist posts that are distractions).

There are people I basically have this with in my neighborhood. We see the benefits and I agree it's mutual so it's not "unpaid labor" or whatever people who want to criticize everything will yammer in about. And yes Dads are part of it too. It's the perspective of "this works" rather than overthinking everything.

Favors like walking someone else's kid home from aftercare, kids playing together while another parent runs an errand. We are also friends and our families socialize together, it's not transactional.