Common app essay and identity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DD is URM at small NY private and we hired private counselor as well. Writing is her strength and one of her essays talks about her identity but really ties with what she wants to do. Editors loved her essay and no one said anything about not mentioning race

BUT DH and I had already decided that if DDs scores were not within 50 percent of university, we would not want her mentioning identity. It is an awful environment but I think minority applicants are going to be subject to stricter scrutiny. DD has high stats, rigor, leadership so I think it is fine in her situation but I think each minority applicant needs to make a careful assessment.

Asians have been dealing with three question of whether to state their race or write about their race for a while now. At least your race still might help you if you have high stats. There is no scenario where race helps for the Asian kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this makes zero sense to me.

Stephen millier's minions are not reading essays or looking at activities sections.

They are simple minded.

They are interested in seeing
White - avg GPA. avg SAT
Black - avg GPA .. avg SAT

and if the black admits have SATs lower than whites, they'll say it's anti-white somehow.

colleges will LOVE kids who signal black or hispanic race in essay or affinity membership AND deliver a 1530.

that's my feeling.

I agree, if you are one of the ~3000 URM with 1500+ SAT then it might help. You represent DEI insurance to avoid scrutiny in case in case there is a racial disparity in test scores.

The AOs have to unlearn some instincts they have when they see URM with even halfway decent stats. The bar has to be raised significantly and 2022 auto accept URM are now mostly auto rejects.

Anyone see this yesterday?
https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/trumps-next-fight-with-universities-racial-proxies-in-admissions-c8677633

This article basically explains the backdrop:

“ For conservatives and the administration, the current push represents a common-sense strategy to enforce and extend the Supreme Court’s
“ There’s an effort to say that it’s illegal to seek to have a diverse student body,””
“ In their recent resolutions with the administration on a number of issues, Columbia and Brown agreed to not use applicants’ personal statements to “introduce or justify discrimination.””
“ In the July Justice Department memo from Bondi, the Trump administration warned against “ostensibly neutral criteria that function as substitutes for explicit consideration of race.” For instance, it noted that “diversity statements,” or asking applicants about “cross-cultural skills” or “obstacles they have overcome,” could be illegal if used to advantage certain races. ”

These are NOT the law. Bunch of crap that has never been tested in court. Harvard case never reached this far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it is odd and confusing. My son has read his friends essays from this past cycle (class of 2025) and their essays talked very openly about their race and ethnicity. These kids are at Ivies - so it was definitely ok last year to talk about your race. I'm also on Application Nation, and Sara Harberson is dead set against it, which makes me wonder if I'm missing something.

DC also read class 29 friends essay, can confirm race is the main theme in the main essay, and in at Ivies.
AN's advice is very confusing. In what context she said that?
It didn't sound rational at all.
Did she have insider information?
Did she talk to her AO friends?

It makes sense to me. The environment is very different today and general counsel‘s offices are now involved in admissions decisions. Colleges do not have the autonomy they once had. Take race and ethnicity out of your applications so there is no question or judgment call that will need to be made in adcommittee.

Not at all. Harvard case specifically allows applicants discussing lived experience—for all races—in essays. If it’s true that GC is now involved in the application process, they should know the law, and make sure the AOs follow the law. Not following a bunch of maga fantasy!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this makes zero sense to me.

Stephen millier's minions are not reading essays or looking at activities sections.

They are simple minded.

They are interested in seeing
White - avg GPA. avg SAT
Black - avg GPA .. avg SAT

and if the black admits have SATs lower than whites, they'll say it's anti-white somehow.

colleges will LOVE kids who signal black or hispanic race in essay or affinity membership AND deliver a 1530.

that's my feeling.

I agree, if you are one of the ~3000 URM with 1500+ SAT then it might help. You represent DEI insurance to avoid scrutiny in case in case there is a racial disparity in test scores.

The AOs have to unlearn some instincts they have when they see URM with even halfway decent stats. The bar has to be raised significantly and 2022 auto accept URM are now mostly auto rejects.

Anyone see this yesterday?
https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/trumps-next-fight-with-universities-racial-proxies-in-admissions-c8677633

This article basically explains the backdrop:

“ For conservatives and the administration, the current push represents a common-sense strategy to enforce and extend the Supreme Court’s
“ There’s an effort to say that it’s illegal to seek to have a diverse student body,””
“ In their recent resolutions with the administration on a number of issues, Columbia and Brown agreed to not use applicants’ personal statements to “introduce or justify discrimination.””
“ In the July Justice Department memo from Bondi, the Trump administration warned against “ostensibly neutral criteria that function as substitutes for explicit consideration of race.” For instance, it noted that “diversity statements,” or asking applicants about “cross-cultural skills” or “obstacles they have overcome,” could be illegal if used to advantage certain races. ”

These are NOT the law. Bunch of crap that has never been tested in court. Harvard case never reached this far.

Of course it hasn't. That's the point - they are pushing this direction. And will get universities to "settle" for fear of it. Look at Brown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it is odd and confusing. My son has read his friends essays from this past cycle (class of 2025) and their essays talked very openly about their race and ethnicity. These kids are at Ivies - so it was definitely ok last year to talk about your race. I'm also on Application Nation, and Sara Harberson is dead set against it, which makes me wonder if I'm missing something.

DC also read class 29 friends essay, can confirm race is the main theme in the main essay, and in at Ivies.
AN's advice is very confusing. In what context she said that?
It didn't sound rational at all.
Did she have insider information?
Did she talk to her AO friends?

It makes sense to me. The environment is very different today and general counsel‘s offices are now involved in admissions decisions. Colleges do not have the autonomy they once had. Take race and ethnicity out of your applications so there is no question or judgment call that will need to be made in adcommittee.

Not at all. Harvard case specifically allows applicants discussing lived experience—for all races—in essays. If it’s true that GC is now involved in the application process, they should know the law, and make sure the AOs follow the law. Not following a bunch of maga fantasy!

Sounds like you are on a high horse and don't have a kid applying. If so, great and good for you. Keep up the good fight. We all thank you.

If you have a kid applying this cycle, I'm not jeopardizing ANYTHING bc who knows what will happen in the next few months. We know which schools are on his "hit" list for a variety of reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this makes zero sense to me.

Stephen millier's minions are not reading essays or looking at activities sections.

They are simple minded.

They are interested in seeing
White - avg GPA. avg SAT
Black - avg GPA .. avg SAT

and if the black admits have SATs lower than whites, they'll say it's anti-white somehow.

colleges will LOVE kids who signal black or hispanic race in essay or affinity membership AND deliver a 1530.

that's my feeling.

I agree, if you are one of the ~3000 URM with 1500+ SAT then it might help. You represent DEI insurance to avoid scrutiny in case in case there is a racial disparity in test scores.

The AOs have to unlearn some instincts they have when they see URM with even halfway decent stats. The bar has to be raised significantly and 2022 auto accept URM are now mostly auto rejects.

Anyone see this yesterday?
https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/trumps-next-fight-with-universities-racial-proxies-in-admissions-c8677633

Paywall - can anyone send gift link?

[Anonymous]

Fear mongering.

Tell me, assuming arguendo that trump will look at the essays: under which scenario essays will have a negative impact?

If you have the required stats, it’s not going to affect you one way or the other. Essays would be a plus.

If your stats comes short, then according to your theory, they won’t admit you anyway. What further damage could essays add to your application?

The whole thing is illogical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD is URM at small NY private and we hired private counselor as well. Writing is her strength and one of her essays talks about her identity but really ties with what she wants to do. Editors loved her essay and no one said anything about not mentioning race

BUT DH and I had already decided that if DDs scores were not within 50 percent of university, we would not want her mentioning identity. It is an awful environment but I think minority applicants are going to be subject to stricter scrutiny. DD has high stats, rigor, leadership so I think it is fine in her situation but I think each minority applicant needs to make a careful assessment.

Asians have been dealing with three question of whether to state their race or write about their race for a while now. At least your race still might help you if you have high stats. There is no scenario where race helps for the Asian kids.

First they come for Latino and Black students, and then they’re coming for the Asian students. Hilarious you think maga wants Asians. Don’t be a dunce!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as you have high stats, I wouldn’t worry about it. It’s an admit whether or not you write about it.

It could be a reason not to admit though? If TO? And biracial?

This year TO becomes highly controversial. The TO admit has to be super strong elsewhere this year.

They always had to be. No one is being admitted with low grades and without extraordinary accomplishments TO. At least not in T20 in our experience.

By extraordinary, do you mean URM?

lol, try harder. statistically it means athletics. by a factor of about x100.

Athletes had a larger preference than blacks but it wasn't x100. It wasn't even x2. But they admit more URM kids that recruited athletes.

Athletes with a 2 or higher academic rating got in 89% of the time
Blacks with a 2 or higher rating got in 57% of the time.
Whites and Asians with a 2 or higher rating got in 15% of the time.

NCAA athletes are largely white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this makes zero sense to me.

Stephen millier's minions are not reading essays or looking at activities sections.

They are simple minded.

They are interested in seeing
White - avg GPA. avg SAT
Black - avg GPA .. avg SAT

and if the black admits have SATs lower than whites, they'll say it's anti-white somehow.

colleges will LOVE kids who signal black or hispanic race in essay or affinity membership AND deliver a 1530.

that's my feeling.

I agree, if you are one of the ~3000 URM with 1500+ SAT then it might help. You represent DEI insurance to avoid scrutiny in case in case there is a racial disparity in test scores.

The AOs have to unlearn some instincts they have when they see URM with even halfway decent stats. The bar has to be raised significantly and 2022 auto accept URM are now mostly auto rejects.

Anyone see this yesterday?
https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/trumps-next-fight-with-universities-racial-proxies-in-admissions-c8677633

This article basically explains the backdrop:

“ For conservatives and the administration, the current push represents a common-sense strategy to enforce and extend the Supreme Court’s
“ There’s an effort to say that it’s illegal to seek to have a diverse student body,””
“ In their recent resolutions with the administration on a number of issues, Columbia and Brown agreed to not use applicants’ personal statements to “introduce or justify discrimination.””
“ In the July Justice Department memo from Bondi, the Trump administration warned against “ostensibly neutral criteria that function as substitutes for explicit consideration of race.” For instance, it noted that “diversity statements,” or asking applicants about “cross-cultural skills” or “obstacles they have overcome,” could be illegal if used to advantage certain races. ”

These are NOT the law. Bunch of crap that has never been tested in court. Harvard case never reached this far.

Of course it hasn't. That's the point - they are pushing this direction. And will get universities to "settle" for fear of it. Look at Brown.

They are looking for evidence of disparate impact, e.g. that students admitted either TO or at the lower end of the score range come from zip codes/schools with higher URM populations or that admissions offices that score student extracurriculars seem to score certain races higher or lower (as was the situation in the Harvard case).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this makes zero sense to me.

Stephen millier's minions are not reading essays or looking at activities sections.

They are simple minded.

They are interested in seeing
White - avg GPA. avg SAT
Black - avg GPA .. avg SAT

and if the black admits have SATs lower than whites, they'll say it's anti-white somehow.

colleges will LOVE kids who signal black or hispanic race in essay or affinity membership AND deliver a 1530.

that's my feeling.

I agree, if you are one of the ~3000 URM with 1500+ SAT then it might help. You represent DEI insurance to avoid scrutiny in case in case there is a racial disparity in test scores.

The AOs have to unlearn some instincts they have when they see URM with even halfway decent stats. The bar has to be raised significantly and 2022 auto accept URM are now mostly auto rejects.

Anyone see this yesterday?
https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/trumps-next-fight-with-universities-racial-proxies-in-admissions-c8677633

This article basically explains the backdrop:

“ For conservatives and the administration, the current push represents a common-sense strategy to enforce and extend the Supreme Court’s
“ There’s an effort to say that it’s illegal to seek to have a diverse student body,””
“ In their recent resolutions with the administration on a number of issues, Columbia and Brown agreed to not use applicants’ personal statements to “introduce or justify discrimination.””
“ In the July Justice Department memo from Bondi, the Trump administration warned against “ostensibly neutral criteria that function as substitutes for explicit consideration of race.” For instance, it noted that “diversity statements,” or asking applicants about “cross-cultural skills” or “obstacles they have overcome,” could be illegal if used to advantage certain races. ”

These are NOT the law. Bunch of crap that has never been tested in court. Harvard case never reached this far.

Of course it hasn't. That's the point - they are pushing this direction. And will get universities to "settle" for fear of it. Look at Brown.

They are looking for evidence of disparate impact, e.g. that students admitted either TO or at the lower end of the score range come from zip codes/schools with higher URM populations or that admissions offices that score student extracurriculars seem to score certain races higher or lower (as was the situation in the Harvard case).

So what if you were test optional and white or Asian? Or both?
Discuss “identity” or not? Yes, kid has national accolades in something unique.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this makes zero sense to me.

Stephen millier's minions are not reading essays or looking at activities sections.

They are simple minded.

They are interested in seeing
White - avg GPA. avg SAT
Black - avg GPA .. avg SAT

and if the black admits have SATs lower than whites, they'll say it's anti-white somehow.

colleges will LOVE kids who signal black or hispanic race in essay or affinity membership AND deliver a 1530.

that's my feeling.

I agree, if you are one of the ~3000 URM with 1500+ SAT then it might help. You represent DEI insurance to avoid scrutiny in case in case there is a racial disparity in test scores.

The AOs have to unlearn some instincts they have when they see URM with even halfway decent stats. The bar has to be raised significantly and 2022 auto accept URM are now mostly auto rejects.

Anyone see this yesterday?
https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/trumps-next-fight-with-universities-racial-proxies-in-admissions-c8677633

This article basically explains the backdrop:

“ For conservatives and the administration, the current push represents a common-sense strategy to enforce and extend the Supreme Court’s
“ There’s an effort to say that it’s illegal to seek to have a diverse student body,””
“ In their recent resolutions with the administration on a number of issues, Columbia and Brown agreed to not use applicants’ personal statements to “introduce or justify discrimination.””
“ In the July Justice Department memo from Bondi, the Trump administration warned against “ostensibly neutral criteria that function as substitutes for explicit consideration of race.” For instance, it noted that “diversity statements,” or asking applicants about “cross-cultural skills” or “obstacles they have overcome,” could be illegal if used to advantage certain races. ”

These are NOT the law. Bunch of crap that has never been tested in court. Harvard case never reached this far.

Of course it hasn't. That's the point - they are pushing this direction. And will get universities to "settle" for fear of it. Look at Brown.

They are looking for evidence of disparate impact, e.g. that students admitted either TO or at the lower end of the score range come from zip codes/schools with higher URM populations or that admissions offices that score student extracurriculars seem to score certain races higher or lower (as was the situation in the Harvard case).

So what if you were test optional and white or Asian? Or both?
Discuss “identity” or not? Yes, kid has national accolades in something unique.

Then the kid is a shoe in. Congrats! They just need to pick which of HYPSM they want to go.

Just play it safe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this makes zero sense to me.

Stephen millier's minions are not reading essays or looking at activities sections.

They are simple minded.

They are interested in seeing
White - avg GPA. avg SAT
Black - avg GPA .. avg SAT

and if the black admits have SATs lower than whites, they'll say it's anti-white somehow.

colleges will LOVE kids who signal black or hispanic race in essay or affinity membership AND deliver a 1530.

that's my feeling.

I agree, if you are one of the ~3000 URM with 1500+ SAT then it might help. You represent DEI insurance to avoid scrutiny in case in case there is a racial disparity in test scores.

The AOs have to unlearn some instincts they have when they see URM with even halfway decent stats. The bar has to be raised significantly and 2022 auto accept URM are now mostly auto rejects.

Anyone see this yesterday?
https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/trumps-next-fight-with-universities-racial-proxies-in-admissions-c8677633

This article basically explains the backdrop:

“ For conservatives and the administration, the current push represents a common-sense strategy to enforce and extend the Supreme Court’s
“ There’s an effort to say that it’s illegal to seek to have a diverse student body,””
“ In their recent resolutions with the administration on a number of issues, Columbia and Brown agreed to not use applicants’ personal statements to “introduce or justify discrimination.””
“ In the July Justice Department memo from Bondi, the Trump administration warned against “ostensibly neutral criteria that function as substitutes for explicit consideration of race.” For instance, it noted that “diversity statements,” or asking applicants about “cross-cultural skills” or “obstacles they have overcome,” could be illegal if used to advantage certain races. ”

These are NOT the law. Bunch of crap that has never been tested in court. Harvard case never reached this far.

Of course it hasn't. That's the point - they are pushing this direction. And will get universities to "settle" for fear of it. Look at Brown.

They are looking for evidence of disparate impact, e.g. that students admitted either TO or at the lower end of the score range come from zip codes/schools with higher URM populations or that admissions offices that score student extracurriculars seem to score certain races higher or lower (as was the situation in the Harvard case).

So what if you were test optional and white or Asian? Or both?
Discuss “identity” or not? Yes, kid has national accolades in something unique.

Then the kid is a shoe in. Congrats! They just need to pick which of HYPSM they want to go.

Just play it safe.

Only P is still TO of that bunch.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this makes zero sense to me.

Stephen millier's minions are not reading essays or looking at activities sections.

They are simple minded.

They are interested in seeing
White - avg GPA. avg SAT
Black - avg GPA .. avg SAT

and if the black admits have SATs lower than whites, they'll say it's anti-white somehow.

colleges will LOVE kids who signal black or hispanic race in essay or affinity membership AND deliver a 1530.

that's my feeling.

I agree, if you are one of the ~3000 URM with 1500+ SAT then it might help. You represent DEI insurance to avoid scrutiny in case in case there is a racial disparity in test scores.

The AOs have to unlearn some instincts they have when they see URM with even halfway decent stats. The bar has to be raised significantly and 2022 auto accept URM are now mostly auto rejects.

Anyone see this yesterday?
https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/trumps-next-fight-with-universities-racial-proxies-in-admissions-c8677633

This article basically explains the backdrop:

“ For conservatives and the administration, the current push represents a common-sense strategy to enforce and extend the Supreme Court’s
“ There’s an effort to say that it’s illegal to seek to have a diverse student body,””
“ In their recent resolutions with the administration on a number of issues, Columbia and Brown agreed to not use applicants’ personal statements to “introduce or justify discrimination.””
“ In the July Justice Department memo from Bondi, the Trump administration warned against “ostensibly neutral criteria that function as substitutes for explicit consideration of race.” For instance, it noted that “diversity statements,” or asking applicants about “cross-cultural skills” or “obstacles they have overcome,” could be illegal if used to advantage certain races. ”

These are NOT the law. Bunch of crap that has never been tested in court. Harvard case never reached this far.

Of course it hasn't. That's the point - they are pushing this direction. And will get universities to "settle" for fear of it. Look at Brown.

They are looking for evidence of disparate impact, e.g. that students admitted either TO or at the lower end of the score range come from zip codes/schools with higher URM populations or that admissions offices that score student extracurriculars seem to score certain races higher or lower (as was the situation in the Harvard case).

So what if you were test optional and white or Asian? Or both?
Discuss “identity” or not? Yes, kid has national accolades in something unique.

Apply to liberal arts with a long history of test optional. Bowdoin, Wake Forest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this makes zero sense to me.

Stephen millier's minions are not reading essays or looking at activities sections.

They are simple minded.

They are interested in seeing
White - avg GPA. avg SAT
Black - avg GPA .. avg SAT

and if the black admits have SATs lower than whites, they'll say it's anti-white somehow.

colleges will LOVE kids who signal black or hispanic race in essay or affinity membership AND deliver a 1530.

that's my feeling.

I agree, if you are one of the ~3000 URM with 1500+ SAT then it might help. You represent DEI insurance to avoid scrutiny in case in case there is a racial disparity in test scores.

The AOs have to unlearn some instincts they have when they see URM with even halfway decent stats. The bar has to be raised significantly and 2022 auto accept URM are now mostly auto rejects.

Anyone see this yesterday?
https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/trumps-next-fight-with-universities-racial-proxies-in-admissions-c8677633

This article basically explains the backdrop:

“ For conservatives and the administration, the current push represents a common-sense strategy to enforce and extend the Supreme Court’s
“ There’s an effort to say that it’s illegal to seek to have a diverse student body,””
“ In their recent resolutions with the administration on a number of issues, Columbia and Brown agreed to not use applicants’ personal statements to “introduce or justify discrimination.””
“ In the July Justice Department memo from Bondi, the Trump administration warned against “ostensibly neutral criteria that function as substitutes for explicit consideration of race.” For instance, it noted that “diversity statements,” or asking applicants about “cross-cultural skills” or “obstacles they have overcome,” could be illegal if used to advantage certain races. ”

These are NOT the law. Bunch of crap that has never been tested in court. Harvard case never reached this far.

Of course it hasn't. That's the point - they are pushing this direction. And will get universities to "settle" for fear of it. Look at Brown.

They are looking for evidence of disparate impact, e.g. that students admitted either TO or at the lower end of the score range come from zip codes/schools with higher URM populations or that admissions offices that score student extracurriculars seem to score certain races higher or lower (as was the situation in the Harvard case).

So what if you were test optional and white or Asian? Or both?
Discuss “identity” or not? Yes, kid has national accolades in something unique.

Apply to liberal arts with a long history of test optional. Bowdoin, Wake Forest.

Uchicago has that long history! Other than UChicago, Vanderbilt and WashU are the private T25 schools with the largest % of TO first-year students.
SLACs: Amherst, Pomona, Bowdoin, Davidson, Middlebury, CMC.
WF isn't a SLAC.
Here's an updated TO list:
https://www.ivycoach.com/the-ivy-coach-blog/standardized-testing/test-optional-colleges-list/