You wake up in bed next to one of the first five U.S. Presidents tomorrow morning …

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ben Franklin.

Supposedly he knew exactly how to please a lady!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ben Franklin.

Supposedly he knew exactly how to please a lady!

Yeah, but it involved a kite and a lightning storm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Like Romeo and Juliet, it could be the romance between Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemmings was probably genuine but was condemned by wider society at the time.

In that way, Jefferson was likely far ahead of his time, was a true believer that love is love unconditionally, and he was actually quite progressive.

Romeo and Juliet had agency. Sallie Hemings was a 13-14 year old slave girl that a 30+ year old Jefferson groomed and raped. No better than Epstein and Trump did with their teenager victims. Disgusting anyone consider that forbidden love.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like Romeo and Juliet, it could be the romance between Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemmings was probably genuine but was condemned by wider society at the time.

In that way, Jefferson was likely far ahead of his time, was a true believer that love is love unconditionally, and he was actually quite progressive.

I hope you're trolling. If you think that the romance between an over 40 year old man and a 14 year old slave child was some new age, ahead of it's time romance, you're being ridiculous at best. There's no period of time where that's acceptable. Much less so when the child is a captive threatened with being sold or killed if she refused him.

You have no way of knowing that .

Which part? That she was a slave. Or that she was Sallie was Jefferson’s wife’s teenage half-sister who was begat by rape. Or that at the time Jefferson was a worldly over 39 something, cause to 49 year old slave master.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any of them gay? Equal opportunity and all

let's put James Buchanan (15th U.S. President) on the table for you.

What is the story on him I have never heard this?

Probably the worst president until Trump.

Don't forget Nixon

In retrospect Nixon wasn’t such a bad POTUS. He was just crooked, but got damn his deeds are minuscule compared to the head thief in chief currently occupying 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thomas Jefferson.
Only choice, But this did cause me to google their heights which I had not know before (other than Jefferson)

Jefferson enslaved his kids with his slave girlfriend. Read the book Jefferson’s sons, a fictionalized account of his history, it made me nauseous.

Fictionalized is the key word

There's plenty of non-fiction books that point out the horror of a 40 year old man impregnating his 14 year old slave and making them work as slaves until he died.

I don’t like Jefferson and don’t think he was a good guy, but you’re not making the right case here. There’s no proof that his sexual relationship with Hemings started before she was 16, and while that’s young, it wasn’t weirdly young in the 18th century especially among the landed class. And she and her kids didn’t really work as slaves. The entire plantation was set up in a tiered system with the Hemings family in a privileged position. Sally lived as essentially a concubine and probably had more luxury than most married women of the era. She was herself 7/8 European in ancestry. Her children were educated and freed once they reached adult hood. (Freeing them as children might have chased some logistical/legal issues. I believe the ones that could not or did not pass a white left the state after emancipation to avoid the risks inherent to being a free black in the south.).
Also note Sally was essentially free in France and could have remained there. Also note that tsailly’s brother Marti no was the Butler at Monticello and protected the Jefferson property when the British marched through (Jefferson of course fled in advance of the British). It’s pretty certain he could have self emancipated by telling the British where Jefferson had gone, or even giving them the Jefferson silver which Martin had hidden, but his loyalty was to Jefferson.

My take on Jefferson is that he was a good looking, silver tongued, charismatic guy that a lot of people liked and as many people felt was kind of smarmy. He was idealistic in his youth but really really liked the finer things in life and his idealism crumbled in front of his desire to live a comfortable life with good wine and nice things and nice clothes. He got so in debt he was unable to free his slaves as he had said he would. He is one of the few founding fathers that saw no action in the revolutionary war, always retreating before the British arrived and managing to always maintain pretty comfortable circumstances while people like Washington were literally starving and freezing and seeing their friends fall to dust early, gangrene and gut wounds.

In short for purposes of this thread — Jefferson was probably a good one night stand but was not a good guy. Washington is a much better pick—but unclear if he has any game as he was not known as a lady’s man at all.

I think Sally negotiated the emancipation of her children as a condition of not staying in France. Definitely some agency there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ben Franklin.

Supposedly he knew exactly how to please a lady!

Yeah, but it involved a kite and a lightning storm.

At least there’d be sparks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thomas Jefferson.
Only choice, But this did cause me to google their heights which I had not know before (other than Jefferson)

Jefferson enslaved his kids with his slave girlfriend. Read the book Jefferson’s sons, a fictionalized account of his history, it made me nauseous.

Fictionalized is the key word

There's plenty of non-fiction books that point out the horror of a 40 year old man impregnating his 14 year old slave and making them work as slaves until he died.

I don’t like Jefferson and don’t think he was a good guy, but you’re not making the right case here. There’s no proof that his sexual relationship with Hemings started before she was 16, and while that’s young, it wasn’t weirdly young in the 18th century especially among the landed class. And she and her kids didn’t really work as slaves. The entire plantation was set up in a tiered system with the Hemings family in a privileged position. Sally lived as essentially a concubine and probably had more luxury than most married women of the era. She was herself 7/8 European in ancestry. Her children were educated and freed once they reached adult hood. (Freeing them as children might have chased some logistical/legal issues. I believe the ones that could not or did not pass a white left the state after emancipation to avoid the risks inherent to being a free black in the south.).
Also note Sally was essentially free in France and could have remained there. Also note that tsailly’s brother Marti no was the Butler at Monticello and protected the Jefferson property when the British marched through (Jefferson of course fled in advance of the British). It’s pretty certain he could have self emancipated by telling the British where Jefferson had gone, or even giving them the Jefferson silver which Martin had hidden, but his loyalty was to Jefferson.

My take on Jefferson is that he was a good looking, silver tongued, charismatic guy that a lot of people liked and as many people felt was kind of smarmy. He was idealistic in his youth but really really liked the finer things in life and his idealism crumbled in front of his desire to live a comfortable life with good wine and nice things and nice clothes. He got so in debt he was unable to free his slaves as he had said he would. He is one of the few founding fathers that saw no action in the revolutionary war, always retreating before the British arrived and managing to always maintain pretty comfortable circumstances while people like Washington were literally starving and freezing and seeing their friends fall to dust early, gangrene and gut wounds.

In short for purposes of this thread — Jefferson was probably a good one night stand but was not a good guy. Washington is a much better pick—but unclear if he has any game as he was not known as a lady’s man at all.

To gain your freedom, would you leave your children enslaved at Monticello. Sally was a quadroon and her children with Jefferson were octoroon by the racial standards of those times. Today, both Sally and her children would be just white people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like Romeo and Juliet, it could be the romance between Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemmings was probably genuine but was condemned by wider society at the time.

In that way, Jefferson was likely far ahead of his time, was a true believer that love is love unconditionally, and he was actually quite progressive.

I hope you're trolling. If you think that the romance between an over 40 year old man and a 14 year old slave child was some new age, ahead of it's time romance, you're being ridiculous at best. There's no period of time where that's acceptable. Much less so when the child is a captive threatened with being sold or killed if she refused him.

Exactly. He was an adult who controlled her entire family in a society that legally approved of whatsoever he wanted to do with her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:George is my man.
He was tall and strong, apparently a great dancer and clearly had a take-charge attitude, so he might have been a decent lover.
Bonus: he was probably sterile, so no worries about an unwanted pregnancy.

he also had no teeth and used wooden dentures. That would be different.

That’s a myth. He had dentures, but they were not wooden.

https://www.mountvernon.org/library/digitalhistory/digital-encyclopedia/article/false-teeth

It’s so much worse than wooden or ivory.

https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe_clean

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:George is my man.
He was tall and strong, apparently a great dancer and clearly had a take-charge attitude, so he might have been a decent lover.
Bonus: he was probably sterile, so no worries about an unwanted pregnancy.

he also had no teeth and used wooden dentures. That would be different.

He, for the most part, did not use wodden teeth. That is a myth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hate to say it -- like, I actually really, really hate to say it -- but if I had to pick from any of the presidents at the time of their presidency, W would probably be the most fun

Probably yes. Reagan probably had the best body. Of course everyone loved Bill.

[Anonymous]

That Monroe was MONEY!