UPenn Bends to Trump Admin; Revokes Lia Thomas Medals

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure this is the right forum, but would be interested in thoughts on news out today that Penn is stripping Thomas of all collegiate wins on the women’s swim team. Obviously this is a big win for Trumps work to pull universities in line with his agenda.

I read about this years ago in the New Yorker, and the thing is, Lia Thomas followed all the NCAA rules at the time. She didn't violate ONE rule. Should the NCAA have had those rules? Maybe not. I believed they changed them after she competed. Or should Penn have stepped in? Probably, but Penn was likely worried about litigation if they (the university) went against what the NCAA allowed.

I don't think Thomas should have competed against biological women, but I don't really like the ruling now, primarily because that insufferable, face-too-big-for-her-features, Riley Gaines will keep making a career of being "wronged" by Lia Thomas (who she tied for 5th with in the NCAA championships--meaning, had Lia never competed, nothing would have been different, Riley still would be 5th), and also because I don't like the universities capitulating to Trump, especially over things that affected very few people, and where the university was not violating any policies. Should Penn be made to apologize to the thousands of women they refused to admit as full-time undergraduates until 1974, simply because they were women?? They weren't violating policies then either.

If Penn had been willing to pursue what would have been a clear sexual harassment policy violation in any other circumstance, Lia would have been found to have broken many rules. The statements about what happened in those locker rooms are appalling. Under normal circumstances, Lia’s behavior would have been clear sexual harassment.

You are saying Lia did not break rules. But that is because those rules were only enforced and only existed to solely protect Lia. It’s easy to claim Lia didn’t break any rules when the University overtly threatened the women who would have otherwise had a solid sexual harassment claim.

It is entirely appropriate to strip the medals and awards. Lia benefited from the systematic discrimination and protection of sexual harassment that Penn engaged in, and therefore was not truly being required to adhere to Penn’s rules, or the NCAA rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure this is the right forum, but would be interested in thoughts on news out today that Penn is stripping Thomas of all collegiate wins on the women’s swim team. Obviously this is a big win for Trumps work to pull universities in line with his agenda.

I read about this years ago in the New Yorker, and the thing is, Lia Thomas followed all the NCAA rules at the time. She didn't violate ONE rule. Should the NCAA have had those rules? Maybe not. I believed they changed them after she competed. Or should Penn have stepped in? Probably, but Penn was likely worried about litigation if they (the university) went against what the NCAA allowed.

I don't think Thomas should have competed against biological women, but I don't really like the ruling now, primarily because that insufferable, face-too-big-for-her-features, Riley Gaines will keep making a career of being "wronged" by Lia Thomas (who she tied for 5th with in the NCAA championships--meaning, had Lia never competed, nothing would have been different, Riley still would be 5th), and also because I don't like the universities capitulating to Trump, especially over things that affected very few people, and where the university was not violating any policies. Should Penn be made to apologize to the thousands of women they refused to admit as full-time undergraduates until 1974, simply because they were women?? They weren't violating policies then either.

You people just cannot keep a lid on your visceral hatred of women, particularly the uppity ones, can you?

Seriously, it's grotesque. "Believe all women," except when we don't like the woman in question..

Yup. The misogyny is so quick to surface and so deep. It’s appalling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thomas had no business being allowed to swim on the women's team. I'm all for her swimming on the men's team as a woman.

I did notice Trump is making the university write letters of apologies to the women on the swimming team.

The required letter of apology is a nice touch!

I hope they apologize for forcing the women to change in front of him. Someone should be charged for that.

I feel like the fair competition based reservations in this case are reasonable but how is changing in front of this person any different than changing in front of an always been female lesbian? (Assuming lia is attracted to women and that’s the concern?)

Are you a male or female? This logic is wild. As someone who feels uncomfortable with a male ob/gyn, no question I'd prefer a lesbian over a gay male doctor. Why not just say women and men should change in the same locker room because LGBTQ people exist anyway? Odd.

If a man exposes his D to me in nearly any other public setting, it’s a felony and he goes on the sex offender list. If I am unwillingly exposed to D in the women’s locker room, I’m supposed to shut up?

+1

In this case it is even worse: the women whose careers, financial aid, and degrees depended on an institution were order to shut up by that same institution when they tried to report the exposures and other lewd behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Keith Olbermann continues to demonstrate what a gigantic creepy prick he is.

His obsession with Riley Gaines is downright scary.

Riley Gaines has fashioned a career and made herself a national media figure based on this issue alone. She’s a big girl, she should be able to take the criticism that comes with the big stage.

+1

This is her self-created persona.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't necessarily disagree with Trump on this but one would think the president had bigger things to worry about than Ivy League swimming. Like all of those people who aren't going to have health care coverage. The cost of groceries that seemed to be such a problem during the election and hasn't gone down. The fact that he continues to call adults by childish nicknames.

This is all performative garbage for the ignorant masses while he continues to profit off this country.

10000% this. The amount of time people have spent wringing their hands about the tiny number of athletes involved is bananas.

Yes. Just another example of the Trump administration not doing anything that makes lots of people's lives better. Just looking for ideological splitters to keep people voting for them.

You don’t seem to understand. This IS what many of us voted for.

Truly abhorrent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thomas had no business being allowed to swim on the women's team. I'm all for her swimming on the men's team as a woman.

I did notice Trump is making the university write letters of apologies to the women on the swimming team.

The required letter of apology is a nice touch!

I hope they apologize for forcing the women to change in front of him. Someone should be charged for that.

I feel like the fair competition based reservations in this case are reasonable but how is changing in front of this person any different than changing in front of an always been female lesbian? (Assuming lia is attracted to women and that’s the concern?)

Are you a male or female? This logic is wild. As someone who feels uncomfortable with a male ob/gyn, no question I'd prefer a lesbian over a gay male doctor. Why not just say women and men should change in the same locker room because LGBTQ people exist anyway? Odd.

If a man exposes his D to me in nearly any other public setting, it’s a felony and he goes on the sex offender list. If I am unwillingly exposed to D in the women’s locker room, I’m supposed to shut up?

+1

In this case it is even worse: the women whose careers, financial aid, and degrees depended on an institution were order to shut up by that same institution when they tried to report the exposures and other lewd behavior.

lol oh no! Maybe they should just end women’s athletics. Did not have this problem before Title IX.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not a Trump fan, but this is the correct direction for women's sports.

I find it abhorrent and fake. These same people kicked and screamed when Title IX was proposed. They don’t give a shit about women’s sports.

That’s true. I don’t expect Title IX to survive this administration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thomas had no business being allowed to swim on the women's team. I'm all for her swimming on the men's team as a woman.

I did notice Trump is making the university write letters of apologies to the women on the swimming team.

The required letter of apology is a nice touch!

I hope they apologize for forcing the women to change in front of him. Someone should be charged for that.

I feel like the fair competition based reservations in this case are reasonable but how is changing in front of this person any different than changing in front of an always been female lesbian? (Assuming lia is attracted to women and that’s the concern?)

Are you a male or female? This logic is wild. As someone who feels uncomfortable with a male ob/gyn, no question I'd prefer a lesbian over a gay male doctor. Why not just say women and men should change in the same locker room because LGBTQ people exist anyway? Odd.

If a man exposes his D to me in nearly any other public setting, it’s a felony and he goes on the sex offender list. If I am unwillingly exposed to D in the women’s locker room, I’m supposed to shut up?

+1

In this case it is even worse: the women whose careers, financial aid, and degrees depended on an institution were order to shut up by that same institution when they tried to report the exposures and other lewd behavior.

lol oh no! Maybe they should just end women’s athletics. Did not have this problem before Title IX.

Is this meant to be a logical point? Try again, my incoherent friend.

Between the open misogyny and the flat-out dimness, the defenders of Lia in this thread are making their points nicely for the other side.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not a Trump fan, but this is the correct direction for women's sports.

I find it abhorrent and fake. These same people kicked and screamed when Title IX was proposed. They don’t give a shit about women’s sports.

That’s true. I don’t expect Title IX to survive this administration.

Nah. Lots of girl sports dads in MAGA. Trump protects the base.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think this is a Trump win. I agree that s/he should not be allowed to compete in women’s sports.

I have two sons and a daughter. My sons are very athletic. If one of them decided to start being a woman and compete as a woman, it would not be fair.

Seriously. I have two boys. Before puberty, things were fairly even and go forth and compete away. After puberty, no way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't necessarily disagree with Trump on this but one would think the president had bigger things to worry about than Ivy League swimming. Like all of those people who aren't going to have health care coverage. The cost of groceries that seemed to be such a problem during the election and hasn't gone down. The fact that he continues to call adults by childish nicknames.

This is all performative garbage for the ignorant masses while he continues to profit off this country.

10000% this. The amount of time people have spent wringing their hands about the tiny number of athletes involved is bananas.

The problem is that it never stops...it may only apply to a sliver of athletes but it's the constant pushing left on every issue that has many people feeling that they can't concede anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not a Trump fan, but this is the correct direction for women's sports.

I find it abhorrent and fake. These same people kicked and screamed when Title IX was proposed. They don’t give a shit about women’s sports.

That’s true. I don’t expect Title IX to survive this administration.

Trump rolled back to the 2020 title ix rules within the first few weeks.
https://www.ed.gov/media/document/title-ix-enforcement-directive-dcl-109477.pdf

You know, the one that removed some protections for sexual assault survivors…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not a Trump fan, but this is the correct direction for women's sports.

I find it abhorrent and fake. These same people kicked and screamed when Title IX was proposed. They don’t give a shit about women’s sports.

That’s true. I don’t expect Title IX to survive this administration.

Trump rolled back to the 2020 title ix rules within the first few weeks.
https://www.ed.gov/media/document/title-ix-enforcement-directive-dcl-109477.pdf

You know, the one that removed some protections for sexual assault survivors…

Interesting. I thought those changes were overall positive for women.

[Anonymous]

Here are just a couple of things the current admin has done to undermine girls’ and women’s athletic opportunities:

- weakened protections for student victims of sexual assault, including athletes who have been abused by coaches or others in positions of authority.

- pulled Title IX guidance that aimed to help women athletes fairly benefit from name, image, and likeness payments.

- proposed an agency rule that will prevent girls from trying out for certain boys’ teams where there is no equivalent boys’ team, eg, football.

No matter what people think about this issue, I hope people can start looking at the bigger picture at some point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not a Trump fan, but this is the correct direction for women's sports.

I find it abhorrent and fake. These same people kicked and screamed when Title IX was proposed. They don’t give a shit about women’s sports.

That’s true. I don’t expect Title IX to survive this administration.

Trump rolled back to the 2020 title ix rules within the first few weeks.
https://www.ed.gov/media/document/title-ix-enforcement-directive-dcl-109477.pdf

You know, the one that removed some protections for sexual assault survivors…

Interesting. I thought those changes were overall positive for women.

Do you mean rolling back the protections? I actually think it was not a bad idea to roll some of those back because of the way those changes ended up being implemented. The potential for abusive claims filed by both sexes was a lot higher, and they were filed.