Are Ivy Leagues outdated and irrelevant these days?

[Anonymous]

I’ve never really followed college stuff til my kids got to this age (I’m from MI, went to Michigan, etc). But my kids are in an nyc private school and the kids going to Harvard are already elite. The Koch brothers grandson - to Harvard. Al Gore’s grandson - to Harvard. Like that. Along w the absolute genius in the class. I imagine a rather small class of kids like that and it’s obviously a way to maintain a a social classes power. Career, friendships, marriages .. it will all consolidate there.

Harvard and Yale especially seem very connnected colleges. It’s hard to not see how important that experience must be for kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve never really followed college stuff til my kids got to this age (I’m from MI, went to Michigan, etc). But my kids are in an nyc private school and the kids going to Harvard are already elite. The Koch brothers grandson - to Harvard. Al Gore’s grandson - to Harvard. Like that. Along w the absolute genius in the class. I imagine a rather small class of kids like that and it’s obviously a way to maintain a a social classes power. Career, friendships, marriages .. it will all consolidate there.

Harvard and Yale especially seem very connnected colleges. It’s hard to not see how important that experience must be for kids

If it's so outdated and irrelevant, I'm guessing the gores and the kochs will move along and send the kids somewhere else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With maga taking down ivies, this might become true in a few years. Sad.

The Ivies are falling out of favor because people finally discovered the 30% legacy admissions, the sports recruiting, and figured out the academic accomplishments are highly inflated at the Ivies.

+1

Yeah, it's also not like the old days when fewer students attended college and high-achieving students were concentrated in a few prestigious institutions. Nowadays, most high school seniors pursue higher education, and talented students are distributed across many universities throughout the country.

This answer doesn’t come close to describing the “old days” at all.

In the old days, 90% of all students went to college like 30 miles of where they lived…even boarding school kids were fairly local to Boston and Mass.

My grandfather went to Harvard because he was smart and lived 5 miles away. If he lived in the middle of Iowa, he would have attended some college within around 30 miles.

Harvard was more like 75% only because there was a large group from NYC even “back in the day”.

DP: Was 2020 the "old days"? Because the median distance to college in 2020 was 17 miles, with 69% of college students traveling no more than 50 miles. https://ticas.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/HIllman-Geography-of-Opportunity-Brief-2_2023.pdf

Most students still attend colleges close to home.

That’s the point…imagine what it was in the 1950s or 1980s or whatever the “old days” are.

Many people like to reference a time in the past where only the most deserving attended the best schools and somehow kids from the middle of South Dakota found their way to Harvard.

Problem is that time has never existed.

+100. I’d love to know when the meritocracy was ever at the Ivies. At least now they’ve expanded their financial aid policies and try to recruit FGLI through organizations like QuestBridge and Posse. But “the good old days” were for the wealthy white males. Columbia became co-ed in 1983.

So, the idea that 'prestige' reflects intelligence was flawed from the very beginning?

And Barnard was right across the street with access to Columbia before 1983.

The Ivies have long schooled a disproportionate share of the best and the brightest. Not all, but more than a typical university, public or private.

Not really. They schooled the wealthiest. Same with many colleges in that time frame as college was relegated to the wealthy. Now that colleges are more open it seems the “elite” schools lose their prestige. In reality, all college is great for anyone. Except for for-profits. Also, it’s hard to say that Ivies are the only ones who produced top talent when LACs, the Seven Sisters, and HBCUs gave many historical, political, and societal members of society. Because, again, the Ivies were only for wealthy white males.

You have it backwards. As these schools became options for more kids they gained prestige. That’s why you obsess about them so much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who says "Ivies are anti-semitic" is a brainwashed loser who can only repeat what Fox News tells them to think.

Are these places perfect? No. Have there been some bad moments, many directed towards Jews? Yes. Are the vast majority of Jews at these schools very happy? Yes.

Do any of the people who suddenly are so alarmed by this actually care about Jews? No. They are just caring about what Trump and Fox tell them to care about. Mind your own darn business.

Signed,

An Ivy League Jew

+1
Thank you!

+100
You face MUCH MUCH more anti-semitism on a southern campus than anywhere in the Northeast. Same goes with other forms of racism.

Kid with a Jewish roommate at an Ivy. They have seen none.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With maga taking down ivies, this might become true in a few years. Sad.

The Ivies are falling out of favor because people finally discovered the 30% legacy admissions, the sports recruiting, and figured out the academic accomplishments are highly inflated at the Ivies.

+1

Yeah, it's also not like the old days when fewer students attended college and high-achieving students were concentrated in a few prestigious institutions. Nowadays, most high school seniors pursue higher education, and talented students are distributed across many universities throughout the country.

This answer doesn’t come close to describing the “old days” at all.

In the old days, 90% of all students went to college like 30 miles of where they lived…even boarding school kids were fairly local to Boston and Mass.

My grandfather went to Harvard because he was smart and lived 5 miles away. If he lived in the middle of Iowa, he would have attended some college within around 30 miles.

Harvard was more like 75% only because there was a large group from NYC even “back in the day”.

DP: Was 2020 the "old days"? Because the median distance to college in 2020 was 17 miles, with 69% of college students traveling no more than 50 miles. https://ticas.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/HIllman-Geography-of-Opportunity-Brief-2_2023.pdf

Most students still attend colleges close to home.

That’s the point…imagine what it was in the 1950s or 1980s or whatever the “old days” are.

Many people like to reference a time in the past where only the most deserving attended the best schools and somehow kids from the middle of South Dakota found their way to Harvard.

Problem is that time has never existed.

+100. I’d love to know when the meritocracy was ever at the Ivies. At least now they’ve expanded their financial aid policies and try to recruit FGLI through organizations like QuestBridge and Posse. But “the good old days” were for the wealthy white males. Columbia became co-ed in 1983.

So, the idea that 'prestige' reflects intelligence was flawed from the very beginning?

And Barnard was right across the street with access to Columbia before 1983.

The Ivies have long schooled a disproportionate share of the best and the brightest. Not all, but more than a typical university, public or private.

Not really. They schooled the wealthiest. Same with many colleges in that time frame as college was relegated to the wealthy. Now that colleges are more open it seems the “elite” schools lose their prestige. In reality, all college is great for anyone. Except for for-profits. Also, it’s hard to say that Ivies are the only ones who produced top talent when LACs, the Seven Sisters, and HBCUs gave many historical, political, and societal members of society. Because, again, the Ivies were only for wealthy white males.

You have it backwards. As these schools became options for more kids they gained prestige. That’s why you obsess about them so much.

Nailed it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who says "Ivies are anti-semitic" is a brainwashed loser who can only repeat what Fox News tells them to think.

Are these places perfect? No. Have there been some bad moments, many directed towards Jews? Yes. Are the vast majority of Jews at these schools very happy? Yes.

Do any of the people who suddenly are so alarmed by this actually care about Jews? No. They are just caring about what Trump and Fox tell them to care about. Mind your own darn business.

Signed,

An Ivy League Jew

I was around more Jews during my time at an Ivy League college than any other time in my life. Trump is just using this, just like Russia is claiming Ukraine is dominated by Nazis. MAGA is not a friend to the Jews.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who says "Ivies are anti-semitic" is a brainwashed loser who can only repeat what Fox News tells them to think.

Are these places perfect? No. Have there been some bad moments, many directed towards Jews? Yes. Are the vast majority of Jews at these schools very happy? Yes.

Do any of the people who suddenly are so alarmed by this actually care about Jews? No. They are just caring about what Trump and Fox tell them to care about. Mind your own darn business.

Signed,

An Ivy League Jew

I was around more Jews during my time at an Ivy League college than any other time in my life. Trump is just using this, just like Russia is claiming Ukraine is dominated by Nazis. MAGA is not a friend to the Jews.

I second this - this was my experience at the Ivy I attended. In fact, my roommate and several close friends were Jews and absolutely loved their time there.

Trump doesn’t give a s*** about Jews. What he cares about is destroying the foundations of our democracy while lining his pockets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who says "Ivies are anti-semitic" is a brainwashed loser who can only repeat what Fox News tells them to think.

Are these places perfect? No. Have there been some bad moments, many directed towards Jews? Yes. Are the vast majority of Jews at these schools very happy? Yes.

Do any of the people who suddenly are so alarmed by this actually care about Jews? No. They are just caring about what Trump and Fox tell them to care about. Mind your own darn business.

Signed,

An Ivy League Jew

I was around more Jews during my time at an Ivy League college than any other time in my life. Trump is just using this, just like Russia is claiming Ukraine is dominated by Nazis. MAGA is not a friend to the Jews.

I second this - this was my experience at the Ivy I attended. In fact, my roommate and several close friends were Jews and absolutely loved their time there.

Trump doesn’t give a s*** about Jews. What he cares about is destroying the foundations of our democracy while lining his pockets.

The manner in which you and the PP write is very nazi-like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who says "Ivies are anti-semitic" is a brainwashed loser who can only repeat what Fox News tells them to think.

Are these places perfect? No. Have there been some bad moments, many directed towards Jews? Yes. Are the vast majority of Jews at these schools very happy? Yes.

Do any of the people who suddenly are so alarmed by this actually care about Jews? No. They are just caring about what Trump and Fox tell them to care about. Mind your own darn business.

Signed,

An Ivy League Jew

I was around more Jews during my time at an Ivy League college than any other time in my life. Trump is just using this, just like Russia is claiming Ukraine is dominated by Nazis. MAGA is not a friend to the Jews.

I second this - this was my experience at the Ivy I attended. In fact, my roommate and several close friends were Jews and absolutely loved their time there.

Trump doesn’t give a s*** about Jews. What he cares about is destroying the foundations of our democracy while lining his pockets.

The manner in which you and the PP write is very nazi-like.

Wow. You have really been brainwashed. Please stay away from Fox "News", klan rallies, the NY Post, and everyone else who has told you left is right and right is left. Think about what your values were 15 years ago. Think about what you want your children to be like. Worshipping someone like Trump? And please don't start with whataboutisms like that we are just as bad. We are not. Biden was far from perfect but treated the presidency with respect. As did Bush. And Reagan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who says "Ivies are anti-semitic" is a brainwashed loser who can only repeat what Fox News tells them to think.

Are these places perfect? No. Have there been some bad moments, many directed towards Jews? Yes. Are the vast majority of Jews at these schools very happy? Yes.

Do any of the people who suddenly are so alarmed by this actually care about Jews? No. They are just caring about what Trump and Fox tell them to care about. Mind your own darn business.

Signed,

An Ivy League Jew

I was around more Jews during my time at an Ivy League college than any other time in my life. Trump is just using this, just like Russia is claiming Ukraine is dominated by Nazis. MAGA is not a friend to the Jews.

I second this - this was my experience at the Ivy I attended. In fact, my roommate and several close friends were Jews and absolutely loved their time there.

Trump doesn’t give a s*** about Jews. What he cares about is destroying the foundations of our democracy while lining his pockets.

The manner in which you and the PP write is very nazi-like.

Wow. You have really been brainwashed. Please stay away from Fox "News", klan rallies, the NY Post, and everyone else who has told you left is right and right is left. Think about what your values were 15 years ago. Think about what you want your children to be like. Worshipping someone like Trump? And please don't start with whataboutisms like that we are just as bad. We are not. Biden was far from perfect but treated the presidency with respect. As did Bush. And Reagan.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who says "Ivies are anti-semitic" is a brainwashed loser who can only repeat what Fox News tells them to think.

Are these places perfect? No. Have there been some bad moments, many directed towards Jews? Yes. Are the vast majority of Jews at these schools very happy? Yes.

Do any of the people who suddenly are so alarmed by this actually care about Jews? No. They are just caring about what Trump and Fox tell them to care about. Mind your own darn business.

Signed,

An Ivy League Jew

I was around more Jews during my time at an Ivy League college than any other time in my life. Trump is just using this, just like Russia is claiming Ukraine is dominated by Nazis. MAGA is not a friend to the Jews.

I second this - this was my experience at the Ivy I attended. In fact, my roommate and several close friends were Jews and absolutely loved their time there.

Trump doesn’t give a s*** about Jews. What he cares about is destroying the foundations of our democracy while lining his pockets.

The manner in which you and the PP write is very nazi-like.

Wow. You have really been brainwashed. Please stay away from Fox "News", klan rallies, the NY Post, and everyone else who has told you left is right and right is left. Think about what your values were 15 years ago. Think about what you want your children to be like. Worshipping someone like Trump? And please don't start with whataboutisms like that we are just as bad. We are not. Biden was far from perfect but treated the presidency with respect. As did Bush. And Reagan.

It's just a troll. I wouldn't waste your time on him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who says "Ivies are anti-semitic" is a brainwashed loser who can only repeat what Fox News tells them to think.

Are these places perfect? No. Have there been some bad moments, many directed towards Jews? Yes. Are the vast majority of Jews at these schools very happy? Yes.

Do any of the people who suddenly are so alarmed by this actually care about Jews? No. They are just caring about what Trump and Fox tell them to care about. Mind your own darn business.

Signed,

An Ivy League Jew

I was around more Jews during my time at an Ivy League college than any other time in my life. Trump is just using this, just like Russia is claiming Ukraine is dominated by Nazis. MAGA is not a friend to the Jews.

I second this - this was my experience at the Ivy I attended. In fact, my roommate and several close friends were Jews and absolutely loved their time there.

Trump doesn’t give a s*** about Jews. What he cares about is destroying the foundations of our democracy while lining his pockets.

The manner in which you and the PP write is very nazi-like.

Wow. You have really been brainwashed. Please stay away from Fox "News", klan rallies, the NY Post, and everyone else who has told you left is right and right is left. Think about what your values were 15 years ago. Think about what you want your children to be like. Worshipping someone like Trump? And please don't start with whataboutisms like that we are just as bad. We are not. Biden was far from perfect but treated the presidency with respect. As did Bush. And Reagan.

It's just a troll. I wouldn't waste your time on him.

Unfortunately tens of millions of these hateful idiots voted for Trump. I do agree that they are largely a lost cause - completely brainwashed and that is unlikely to change. But venting helps!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With maga taking down ivies, this might become true in a few years. Sad.

The Ivies are falling out of favor because people finally discovered the 30% legacy admissions, the sports recruiting, and figured out the academic accomplishments are highly inflated at the Ivies.

Not specific to Ivies. Caltech is the only selective school I know with no sports recruiting.

They say that they don't recruit anymore but they do, it's just a bit more subtle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With maga taking down ivies, this might become true in a few years. Sad.

The Ivies are falling out of favor because people finally discovered the 30% legacy admissions, the sports recruiting, and figured out the academic accomplishments are highly inflated at the Ivies.

Not specific to Ivies. Caltech is the only selective school I know with no sports recruiting.

They sure do recruit.
"This recruitment process was less frequently used for athletes in the past, but has been employed for upwards of 90% of athletes in recent years."
https://tech.caltech.edu/2024/11/athletics-admissions-recap/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ivies are and will remain powerful because they attract the best people, not because of their courses or professors. Harvard will become more important, not less, because of its persecution by Trump. A year ago, no one would use the word "sympathetic" to describe Harvard--and yet now they have that, too. People can rage all they want about these institutions, but every parent and child will always maximize future utility, power, and wealth, and these places are the surest way to achieve that.

No, they are increasingly seen as attracting the most pampered, spoiled, soulless social-climbers among us.

Who can forget the protester at Columbia who thought the people who took over an administration building still deserved to have their dining hall meals delivered to them?

The Ivies are only special if people respect them. Columbia is OVER. That is the first domino to fall.

Should I tell this to the company I work for? They are pretty exclusive regarding who they hire and we just onboarded 3 Columbia students along with several others from a range of the Ivy schools. We also hire from other schools but the Ivy’s feature prominently in our hiring program