Any high school teachers here who can give some frank talk about which types of students get into the top colleges?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being sociable, friendly and engaging with classmates/teachers, a contributor in the classroom, is much more important than people realize.

Teachers talk amongst each other, "Oh you have Jimmy next year? He's a great kid."

The more community-oriented and outgoing the kid is, the likelier their reputation will smooth the way for great recommendations and other soft support.

So, basically, you’re promoting extroverted kids only? If a student is quiet by nature, they are perceived as not friendly and not contributing?

I hate it that teachers are so shallow.

It cuts the other way too. The biggest ahole kids are extroverts also.

[Anonymous]

“I was curious to see if the Supreme Court stuff would impact admissions for AA kids from DC's high school, and it did not. High stats URM did far better than unhooked high stats white (and especially Asian kids). Harvard and Stanford took the two top AA kids in the grade. DC happens to be good friends with both these kids (small school) and I'm fairly certain neither were secretly sitting on big awards or top GPAs. Race was the hook. It is what it is. (My kid didn't apply to H or S, so no sour grapes here).”

Did you see the applications or are you guessing and speculating? How are you mitigating your bias without providing data? Your rubbish assertions would be tossed out of court.

[Anonymous]

“So, basically, you’re promoting extroverted kids only? If a student is quiet by nature, they are perceived as not friendly and not contributing?”

I don’t know however we deal with these same issues at home, in families, communities, and on the job. Who gets the nod? What’s your solution — highest middle school SAT score?

[Anonymous]

….with or without prep!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Editors of the school newspaper. Legacies. Athletes. Especially weird ones like Crew. Or URM that has an amazing story and stats to back it up.

While this seems logical, it is not universally accurate. Each admissions cycle, I am surprised at the disappointing college admissions results for high school newspaper editors-in-chief. Baffling to me.

Maybe in the 1970’s, 1980 ‘s. Doesn’t really hold much weight now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Editors of the school newspaper. Legacies. Athletes. Especially weird ones like Crew. Or URM that has an amazing story and stats to back it up.

Or just URM. Double points if URM at a feeder private.

I was curious to see if the Supreme Court stuff would impact admissions for AA kids from DC's high school, and it did not. High stats URM did far better than unhooked high stats white (and especially Asian kids). Harvard and Stanford took the two top AA kids in the grade. DC happens to be good friends with both these kids (small school) and I'm fairly certain neither were secretly sitting on big awards or top GPAs. Race was the hook. It is what it is. (My kid didn't apply to H or S, so no sour grapes here).

Harvard made it very clear after the decision that they were not going to follow it - they were going to do exactly what they pleased. This was announced on social media where everyone could see. They have been brazen about listening to no one but themselves for yrs.

Unfortunately since then schools see there are no repercussions so the repeal of Aff Action has not changed anything.

[Anonymous]

Harvard's discrimination against white and Asian students has been so pervasive over the past 20 years that I'm not sure they can pull back from their institutional racism so easily.

Harvard's pronouncements which vehemently denounced the ruling were a pretty big tell that they would not obey the ruling/constitution. At the very least they would do all that they could to continue to favor black applicants.

[Anonymous]

my kid is in a top school. he asked to see his application (you can do this)...almost nothing written on it. had 3 "scores", one for academics, one for extra curriculars and one for community service. and then one note that said "he's a star/accept"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had an intelligent but not unusual, otherwise unremarkable student get into Harvard, and I'm sure ROTC was her hook. She talked with them a few times, and was told that they had spoken to Admissions and that Admissions assured them they were looking "very favorably" at her file. Then she was admitted. She also got into Yale and Cornell.

So, ROTC. Not sure if I'd advise anyone to take that route unless they were already so inclined, though.

ROTC is the best hook you can have for an Ivy. And if you are also a URM, this is like a golden ticket.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being sociable, friendly and engaging with classmates/teachers, a contributor in the classroom, is much more important than people realize.

Teachers talk amongst each other, "Oh you have Jimmy next year? He's a great kid."

The more community-oriented and outgoing the kid is, the likelier their reputation will smooth the way for great recommendations and other soft support.

So, basically, you’re promoting extroverted kids only? If a student is quiet by nature, they are perceived as not friendly and not contributing?

I hate it that teachers are so shallow.

DP My kids went to a lot of schools in a lot of different states, and a wide variety of schools. We found this happens more in bad public schools and in good southern private schools.

The best school for my deep thinker was an elite private that took great pride in being intellectual.

I have some wild teacher stories.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve been teaching AP for many, many years. Most of my students are the 4.0 unweighted GPA types. They volunteer, are varsity athletes, and they are doing all they can to look good for college. Some truly stand out, but most are very strong candidates.

And then college admissions come and the results appear random. The true stand-outs face surprising rejections and the “just” strong candidate got in instead.

Here’s what I think: students have to meet a threshold to make it into the “considered” pile at a college. But after making it into that pile, the choice itself appears random.

All the kids can really do is get themselves into the pile. Then cross fingers and hope for the best.

I think you are accurate all the way until your point about the threshold to be considered pile. After that, it is not random though it may look that way to the outside. The decisions are based on things like.:
- Major (classics gets in over bio; gender studies over engineering; English over CS)
- Talent/ability (National award winning squash player gets in over varsity baseball captain; neither recruited. National ranked figure skater gets on over state champion soccer player; neither recruited)
- essays (what kids reveal in essays matters a lot more than people think.) There is a right way to do essays in the wrong way to do essays. Unfortunately, most HS English teachers advise kids to do the wrong thing. It’s not about overcomplicated sentence and essay structures. The writing should be at easy to read/grasp level; varied sentences, including some very short sentences; poignant, personal, and touching on at least 3-4 of your personal values. It should also not repeat anything covered anywhere else in the application, including your major.
- LOR (an exceptional LOR can make a difference)

Look at the T10 scoring rubrics. You can see why certain kids get in once you understand the scoring.

What makes a LOR “exceptional”?

NP:

The best LORs I’ve written have anecdotes where the kid’s uniqueness or passion shine through. A kid who does exactly what they are supposed to do, no more or less, is really hard to write anything special about.

I’ve been asked to write 6 so far for next fall. 5 will be fine, positive letters—the kid “works hard, asks good questions, is a strong student, very reliable.” Kind, but bland.

The 6th will be stellar, because the kid has shown me all year they are stellar.
—Proactively reached out to me before school started to tell me they’d miss the first week due to an opportunity to volunteer on the presidential campaign, could they pick up the first week’s assignments during open house?
—When the software we were using for homework crashed, kid took it upon themself to borrow the textbook from the library and do the questions by hand, while classmates used it as an opportunity to have no hw for a night.
—When AP exam time was coming, kid organized weekly study sessions for classmates (started as a few friends, expanded to 10 kids as others kept asking to join) and prepared materials to work through with their peers.
—Asked good questions, but then researched and applied those concepts to questions they were curious about beyond material in the class. Came and shared with me excitedly during lunch one day how they had wondered whether about xyz, and showed me their mathematical process to collect random data, build a confidence interval, and run a hypothesis test to prove a theory. For funsies.

I could write 5 pages instead of 5 paragraphs. Because that kid exudes passion and interest in the world around them.

I’ve also written phenomenal LORs for the quiet shy kid who didn’t do a million ECs but overcame a LOT to participate in class discussions and tackle school—but that’s because the child opened up to me about life beyond the classroom before school every day.

If I don’t know your kid well, the letter will be bland no matter how wonderful they are in your eyes. Encourage your kid to form relationships and chat about life, interests, current events when teachers are open to it.

Love this. Thank you for sharing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Harvard's discrimination against white and Asian students has been so pervasive over the past 20 years that I'm not sure they can pull back from their institutional racism so easily.

Harvard's pronouncements which vehemently denounced the ruling were a pretty big tell that they would not obey the ruling/constitution. At the very least they would do all that they could to continue to favor black applicants.
+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Editors of the school newspaper. Legacies. Athletes. Especially weird ones like Crew. Or URM that has an amazing story and stats to back it up.

Or just URM. Double points if URM at a feeder private.

I was curious to see if the Supreme Court stuff would impact admissions for AA kids from DC's high school, and it did not. High stats URM did far better than unhooked high stats white (and especially Asian kids). Harvard and Stanford took the two top AA kids in the grade. DC happens to be good friends with both these kids (small school) and I'm fairly certain neither were secretly sitting on big awards or top GPAs. Race was the hook. It is what it is. (My kid didn't apply to H or S, so no sour grapes here).

High stats URMs received admission.

What's the problem?

Whites and Asians throw around "high stats" and almost feel entitled to T10 schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents who work as admissions coaches. Specifically, essay coaches seem to fare the best.

Agree.

Great essays and strong LOR (coached with detailed brag sheets relating why & how teachers class impacted kid, led to passion about academic area, created intellectual curiosity) are the main differentiators at private HS.

I disagree about the LORs needing to be coached with brag sheets. I would say the LORs should be written by teachers and counselor without them needing to see a brag sheet. My kid was rated best of career in 2 LORs (saw admissions file) and did not submit brag sheet at all. In fact the LoRs were the main reason to get into Harvard per AO comments as they showed a side that did not come through in rest of application.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard's discrimination against white and Asian students has been so pervasive over the past 20 years that I'm not sure they can pull back from their institutional racism so easily.

Harvard's pronouncements which vehemently denounced the ruling were a pretty big tell that they would not obey the ruling/constitution. At the very least they would do all that they could to continue to favor black applicants.
+1

You didn't read the ruling carefully, it clearly said, no race in consideration, but college can take into account for diversity background of students.