NIH wades into foreign affairs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People equating Covid vaccines pressure with the dismantling of democracy and our system of law and order are NUTS. Not even in the same ballpark and your post-pandemic mania does not give you a free pass to be a jackass now. FFS you guys still braying about Covid vaccines are insane.

It's easy to ignore other people's civil liberties when they're under threat, especially when you've denigrated or dehumanized them.

Except that the vaccine pressure was just that...pressure. No one was sent to El Salvador. No one was denigrated or dehumanized. Those are powerful words. You have an overblown sense of your victimization. And your way of dealing with it is like a sledgehammer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you work for NIH and you follow along, then you are complicit.

People need their jobs moron.

Im sure that's what many Germans said too. "I was just following orders!" Do we learn nothing from history? Freedom isn't free. It occasionally requires sacrifices and acts of bravery. If everyone just carries out the Nazis orders, well sorry hun, you're a Nazi helping a Nazi regime. They can't do evil if regular workers won't carry out the orders. Stop waiting for someone else to save us. WE have to save us.

You're talking about Germany, but there's literally a genocide going on in the middle east. If people need to quit their jobs, it's the ones working for military defense companies and companies that support genocide. Not the people in the NIH.

EVERYONE needs to start thinking more deeply about the societal implications of the work they do, and stop letting the wealthy hold a gun to our heads in the form of unemployment and homelessness, believing we have no other choice than to aid them in their endless profit seeking at the expense of literally every else on this planet.

We dont have to help them wage war. We dont have to help them destroy the environment. We dont have to help them enslave people in for profit prisons. We dont have to help them starve people for profit. You have agency, and the blood IS on your hands.

How does doing basic research on a daily basis equate to blood on people’s hands. Huge leap there.

Not the PP but at least half of what NIH conducts/funds is clinical/applied research. Either ways, if you're willing to look the other way as various groups are being ignored, insulted, and dehumanized (e.g., gender non-binary and trans communities, ethnic minority groups), you do have blood on your hands.

Hm, let's see a citation for that. Here we're talking about the intramural NIH program, which is what the article was implying as responsible for decisions being made by the Trump administration. Are you saying that half of the research in the intramural NIH program insults and dehumanizes various groups of people? Please show your work. If you need a place to start, here are the programs that comprise NIH: https://irp.nih.gov/
Please do tell us how we have blood on our hands.

Citation for what? And which article are you referring to? I'm saying people not standing up against the abhorrent new policies are complicit and have blood on their hands. I'm at the NIH. I've seen the deafening silence from IC leadership and am absolutely disgusted.

I’d like to see a citation for your statement that half of the IRP’s work insults and dehumanizes various groups of people. Because that’s what you said. You’re asking random people at NIH (like yourself, it seems) to quit, saying that we’re complicit. I don’t know about what you do at NIH, but I’m certainly not anywhere near the rooms where the DOGE idiots and Jay are systematically dismantling NIH. And if as a young investigator I quit, I take a lab full of people down with me, even though I pledged to train and foster their careers. And oh, by the way, it is highly unlikely that I’ll be able to stay in science much less move my lab elsewhere because they’re attacking extramural science too. The same goes for my trainees. Stop using basic scientists as the scapegoats here. Enough. NIH isn’t doing this, the Trump administration is doing this to science.

I didn't say anything about the IRP; you did. If you haven't changed anything about the way you do your science based on the EOs/new policies, then clearly this discussion doesn't apply to you.

The vast majority (90%?) of the NIH budget is extramural. I don't see many people pushing back or even acknowledging the harm being done, especially those in senior leadership. Staff have generally prioritized their own jobs over scientific integrity and the people served by their IC's mission. The least we can do is admit people have made this choice.

So be specific: you are mad at senior leadership. The most senior of which is a Trump appointee.

Most NIH researchers have zero say in the funding decisions. They are just trying to do their science and make a difference. And those that work on what the stupid Trump admin considers "DEI" are also losing positions and funding. Its atrocious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you work for NIH and you follow along, then you are complicit.

People need their jobs moron.

Im sure that's what many Germans said too. "I was just following orders!" Do we learn nothing from history? Freedom isn't free. It occasionally requires sacrifices and acts of bravery. If everyone just carries out the Nazis orders, well sorry hun, you're a Nazi helping a Nazi regime. They can't do evil if regular workers won't carry out the orders. Stop waiting for someone else to save us. WE have to save us.

You're talking about Germany, but there's literally a genocide going on in the middle east. If people need to quit their jobs, it's the ones working for military defense companies and companies that support genocide. Not the people in the NIH.

EVERYONE needs to start thinking more deeply about the societal implications of the work they do, and stop letting the wealthy hold a gun to our heads in the form of unemployment and homelessness, believing we have no other choice than to aid them in their endless profit seeking at the expense of literally every else on this planet.

We dont have to help them wage war. We dont have to help them destroy the environment. We dont have to help them enslave people in for profit prisons. We dont have to help them starve people for profit. You have agency, and the blood IS on your hands.

How does doing basic research on a daily basis equate to blood on people’s hands. Huge leap there.

Not the PP but at least half of what NIH conducts/funds is clinical/applied research. Either ways, if you're willing to look the other way as various groups are being ignored, insulted, and dehumanized (e.g., gender non-binary and trans communities, ethnic minority groups), you do have blood on your hands.

Hm, let's see a citation for that. Here we're talking about the intramural NIH program, which is what the article was implying as responsible for decisions being made by the Trump administration. Are you saying that half of the research in the intramural NIH program insults and dehumanizes various groups of people? Please show your work. If you need a place to start, here are the programs that comprise NIH: https://irp.nih.gov/
Please do tell us how we have blood on our hands.

Citation for what? And which article are you referring to? I'm saying people not standing up against the abhorrent new policies are complicit and have blood on their hands. I'm at the NIH. I've seen the deafening silence from IC leadership and am absolutely disgusted.

I’d like to see a citation for your statement that half of the IRP’s work insults and dehumanizes various groups of people. Because that’s what you said. You’re asking random people at NIH (like yourself, it seems) to quit, saying that we’re complicit. I don’t know about what you do at NIH, but I’m certainly not anywhere near the rooms where the DOGE idiots and Jay are systematically dismantling NIH. And if as a young investigator I quit, I take a lab full of people down with me, even though I pledged to train and foster their careers. And oh, by the way, it is highly unlikely that I’ll be able to stay in science much less move my lab elsewhere because they’re attacking extramural science too. The same goes for my trainees. Stop using basic scientists as the scapegoats here. Enough. NIH isn’t doing this, the Trump administration is doing this to science.

I didn't say anything about the IRP; you did. If you haven't changed anything about the way you do your science based on the EOs/new policies, then clearly this discussion doesn't apply to you.

The vast majority (90%?) of the NIH budget is extramural. I don't see many people pushing back or even acknowledging the harm being done, especially those in senior leadership. Staff have generally prioritized their own jobs over scientific integrity and the people served by their IC's mission. The least we can do is admit people have made this choice.

You need to take a deep breath and decide who you're really angry at. First it was "half of the work NIH conducts is harmful, you have blood on your hands!!!". Now you're shifting to extramural funded projects - the people who get those funds are not at NIH. You know this. Next you'll say that you're talking about the grants management offices within NIH - except they aren't the ones making these decisions nor executing them, and many of them were RIF'ed already.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you work for NIH and you follow along, then you are complicit.

Not true at all. We do not want all the career people to leave. That would be worse for the American people than what we have now.

The career people SHOULD leave. The results have been poor, the costs have been high, the average age is very high, and they’ve been coddled with 30 years of “immunity” from layoffs and five years of immunity from having to show up in-person for work. Any private sector company would clean house and hire younger people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you work for NIH and you follow along, then you are complicit.

Not true at all. We do not want all the career people to leave. That would be worse for the American people than what we have now.

The career people SHOULD leave. The results have been poor, the costs have been high, the average age is very high, and they’ve been coddled with 30 years of “immunity” from layoffs and five years of immunity from having to show up in-person for work. Any private sector company would clean house and hire younger people.

You do realize that this is not what Trump's administration is doing right? Their intent isn't to increase efficiency or improve things. They fired wide swaths of people in whole categories without replacing them or having a game plan to replace what they were doing. You are a clown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you work for NIH and you follow along, then you are complicit.

Not true at all. We do not want all the career people to leave. That would be worse for the American people than what we have now.

The career people SHOULD leave. The results have been poor, the costs have been high, the average age is very high, and they’ve been coddled with 30 years of “immunity” from layoffs and five years of immunity from having to show up in-person for work. Any private sector company would clean house and hire younger people.

OMG - this is COMPLETELY AGEIST!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you work for NIH and you follow along, then you are complicit.

Not true at all. We do not want all the career people to leave. That would be worse for the American people than what we have now.

The career people SHOULD leave. The results have been poor, the costs have been high, the average age is very high, and they’ve been coddled with 30 years of “immunity” from layoffs and five years of immunity from having to show up in-person for work. Any private sector company would clean house and hire younger people.

OMG - this is COMPLETELY AGEIST!

Ageism is every bit as harmful, odious, and vile as racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you work for NIH and you follow along, then you are complicit.

People need their jobs moron.

Im sure that's what many Germans said too. "I was just following orders!" Do we learn nothing from history? Freedom isn't free. It occasionally requires sacrifices and acts of bravery. If everyone just carries out the Nazis orders, well sorry hun, you're a Nazi helping a Nazi regime. They can't do evil if regular workers won't carry out the orders. Stop waiting for someone else to save us. WE have to save us.

You're talking about Germany, but there's literally a genocide going on in the middle east. If people need to quit their jobs, it's the ones working for military defense companies and companies that support genocide. Not the people in the NIH.

EVERYONE needs to start thinking more deeply about the societal implications of the work they do, and stop letting the wealthy hold a gun to our heads in the form of unemployment and homelessness, believing we have no other choice than to aid them in their endless profit seeking at the expense of literally every else on this planet.

We dont have to help them wage war. We dont have to help them destroy the environment. We dont have to help them enslave people in for profit prisons. We dont have to help them starve people for profit. You have agency, and the blood IS on your hands.

How does doing basic research on a daily basis equate to blood on people’s hands. Huge leap there.

Not the PP but at least half of what NIH conducts/funds is clinical/applied research. Either ways, if you're willing to look the other way as various groups are being ignored, insulted, and dehumanized (e.g., gender non-binary and trans communities, ethnic minority groups), you do have blood on your hands.

Hm, let's see a citation for that. Here we're talking about the intramural NIH program, which is what the article was implying as responsible for decisions being made by the Trump administration. Are you saying that half of the research in the intramural NIH program insults and dehumanizes various groups of people? Please show your work. If you need a place to start, here are the programs that comprise NIH: https://irp.nih.gov/
Please do tell us how we have blood on our hands.

Citation for what? And which article are you referring to? I'm saying people not standing up against the abhorrent new policies are complicit and have blood on their hands. I'm at the NIH. I've seen the deafening silence from IC leadership and am absolutely disgusted.

I’d like to see a citation for your statement that half of the IRP’s work insults and dehumanizes various groups of people. Because that’s what you said. You’re asking random people at NIH (like yourself, it seems) to quit, saying that we’re complicit. I don’t know about what you do at NIH, but I’m certainly not anywhere near the rooms where the DOGE idiots and Jay are systematically dismantling NIH. And if as a young investigator I quit, I take a lab full of people down with me, even though I pledged to train and foster their careers. And oh, by the way, it is highly unlikely that I’ll be able to stay in science much less move my lab elsewhere because they’re attacking extramural science too. The same goes for my trainees. Stop using basic scientists as the scapegoats here. Enough. NIH isn’t doing this, the Trump administration is doing this to science.

I didn't say anything about the IRP; you did. If you haven't changed anything about the way you do your science based on the EOs/new policies, then clearly this discussion doesn't apply to you.

The vast majority (90%?) of the NIH budget is extramural. I don't see many people pushing back or even acknowledging the harm being done, especially those in senior leadership. Staff have generally prioritized their own jobs over scientific integrity and the people served by their IC's mission. The least we can do is admit people have made this choice.

So be specific: you are mad at senior leadership. The most senior of which is a Trump appointee.

Most NIH researchers have zero say in the funding decisions. They are just trying to do their science and make a difference. And those that work on what the stupid Trump admin considers "DEI" are also losing positions and funding. Its atrocious.

Yes, and if you see my previous comment, I specifically called out IC leadership, although several levels of leadership have been silent. There are a few commenters here who keep equating NIH research with the IRP and they're likely unaware of what is happening on the extramural side. IMO most of the damage is from the latter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you work for NIH and you follow along, then you are complicit.

People need their jobs moron.

Im sure that's what many Germans said too. "I was just following orders!" Do we learn nothing from history? Freedom isn't free. It occasionally requires sacrifices and acts of bravery. If everyone just carries out the Nazis orders, well sorry hun, you're a Nazi helping a Nazi regime. They can't do evil if regular workers won't carry out the orders. Stop waiting for someone else to save us. WE have to save us.

You're talking about Germany, but there's literally a genocide going on in the middle east. If people need to quit their jobs, it's the ones working for military defense companies and companies that support genocide. Not the people in the NIH.

EVERYONE needs to start thinking more deeply about the societal implications of the work they do, and stop letting the wealthy hold a gun to our heads in the form of unemployment and homelessness, believing we have no other choice than to aid them in their endless profit seeking at the expense of literally every else on this planet.

We dont have to help them wage war. We dont have to help them destroy the environment. We dont have to help them enslave people in for profit prisons. We dont have to help them starve people for profit. You have agency, and the blood IS on your hands.

How does doing basic research on a daily basis equate to blood on people’s hands. Huge leap there.

Not the PP but at least half of what NIH conducts/funds is clinical/applied research. Either ways, if you're willing to look the other way as various groups are being ignored, insulted, and dehumanized (e.g., gender non-binary and trans communities, ethnic minority groups), you do have blood on your hands.

Hm, let's see a citation for that. Here we're talking about the intramural NIH program, which is what the article was implying as responsible for decisions being made by the Trump administration. Are you saying that half of the research in the intramural NIH program insults and dehumanizes various groups of people? Please show your work. If you need a place to start, here are the programs that comprise NIH: https://irp.nih.gov/
Please do tell us how we have blood on our hands.

Citation for what? And which article are you referring to? I'm saying people not standing up against the abhorrent new policies are complicit and have blood on their hands. I'm at the NIH. I've seen the deafening silence from IC leadership and am absolutely disgusted.

I’d like to see a citation for your statement that half of the IRP’s work insults and dehumanizes various groups of people. Because that’s what you said. You’re asking random people at NIH (like yourself, it seems) to quit, saying that we’re complicit. I don’t know about what you do at NIH, but I’m certainly not anywhere near the rooms where the DOGE idiots and Jay are systematically dismantling NIH. And if as a young investigator I quit, I take a lab full of people down with me, even though I pledged to train and foster their careers. And oh, by the way, it is highly unlikely that I’ll be able to stay in science much less move my lab elsewhere because they’re attacking extramural science too. The same goes for my trainees. Stop using basic scientists as the scapegoats here. Enough. NIH isn’t doing this, the Trump administration is doing this to science.

I didn't say anything about the IRP; you did. If you haven't changed anything about the way you do your science based on the EOs/new policies, then clearly this discussion doesn't apply to you.

The vast majority (90%?) of the NIH budget is extramural. I don't see many people pushing back or even acknowledging the harm being done, especially those in senior leadership. Staff have generally prioritized their own jobs over scientific integrity and the people served by their IC's mission. The least we can do is admit people have made this choice.

So be specific: you are mad at senior leadership. The most senior of which is a Trump appointee.

Most NIH researchers have zero say in the funding decisions. They are just trying to do their science and make a difference. And those that work on what the stupid Trump admin considers "DEI" are also losing positions and funding. Its atrocious.

Yes, and if you see my previous comment, I specifically called out IC leadership, although several levels of leadership have been silent. There are a few commenters here who keep equating NIH research with the IRP and they're likely unaware of what is happening on the extramural side. IMO most of the damage is from the latter.

I see. So you think IC directors are on this forum and that's why you told NIHers here to quit? That seems totally reasonable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you work for NIH and you follow along, then you are complicit.

People need their jobs moron.

Im sure that's what many Germans said too. "I was just following orders!" Do we learn nothing from history? Freedom isn't free. It occasionally requires sacrifices and acts of bravery. If everyone just carries out the Nazis orders, well sorry hun, you're a Nazi helping a Nazi regime. They can't do evil if regular workers won't carry out the orders. Stop waiting for someone else to save us. WE have to save us.

You're talking about Germany, but there's literally a genocide going on in the middle east. If people need to quit their jobs, it's the ones working for military defense companies and companies that support genocide. Not the people in the NIH.

EVERYONE needs to start thinking more deeply about the societal implications of the work they do, and stop letting the wealthy hold a gun to our heads in the form of unemployment and homelessness, believing we have no other choice than to aid them in their endless profit seeking at the expense of literally every else on this planet.

We dont have to help them wage war. We dont have to help them destroy the environment. We dont have to help them enslave people in for profit prisons. We dont have to help them starve people for profit. You have agency, and the blood IS on your hands.

How does doing basic research on a daily basis equate to blood on people’s hands. Huge leap there.

Not the PP but at least half of what NIH conducts/funds is clinical/applied research. Either ways, if you're willing to look the other way as various groups are being ignored, insulted, and dehumanized (e.g., gender non-binary and trans communities, ethnic minority groups), you do have blood on your hands.

Hm, let's see a citation for that. Here we're talking about the intramural NIH program, which is what the article was implying as responsible for decisions being made by the Trump administration. Are you saying that half of the research in the intramural NIH program insults and dehumanizes various groups of people? Please show your work. If you need a place to start, here are the programs that comprise NIH: https://irp.nih.gov/
Please do tell us how we have blood on our hands.

Citation for what? And which article are you referring to? I'm saying people not standing up against the abhorrent new policies are complicit and have blood on their hands. I'm at the NIH. I've seen the deafening silence from IC leadership and am absolutely disgusted.

I’d like to see a citation for your statement that half of the IRP’s work insults and dehumanizes various groups of people. Because that’s what you said. You’re asking random people at NIH (like yourself, it seems) to quit, saying that we’re complicit. I don’t know about what you do at NIH, but I’m certainly not anywhere near the rooms where the DOGE idiots and Jay are systematically dismantling NIH. And if as a young investigator I quit, I take a lab full of people down with me, even though I pledged to train and foster their careers. And oh, by the way, it is highly unlikely that I’ll be able to stay in science much less move my lab elsewhere because they’re attacking extramural science too. The same goes for my trainees. Stop using basic scientists as the scapegoats here. Enough. NIH isn’t doing this, the Trump administration is doing this to science.

I didn't say anything about the IRP; you did. If you haven't changed anything about the way you do your science based on the EOs/new policies, then clearly this discussion doesn't apply to you.

The vast majority (90%?) of the NIH budget is extramural. I don't see many people pushing back or even acknowledging the harm being done, especially those in senior leadership. Staff have generally prioritized their own jobs over scientific integrity and the people served by their IC's mission. The least we can do is admit people have made this choice.

You need to take a deep breath and decide who you're really angry at. First it was "half of the work NIH conducts is harmful, you have blood on your hands!!!". Now you're shifting to extramural funded projects - the people who get those funds are not at NIH. You know this. Next you'll say that you're talking about the grants management offices within NIH - except they aren't the ones making these decisions nor executing them, and many of them were RIF'ed already.

Those exclamation marks are yours, not mine. I didn't shift to anything and was consistent in my previous comments. Maybe take a deep breath and realize you might be conversing with multiple commenters?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you work for NIH and you follow along, then you are complicit.

People need their jobs moron.

Im sure that's what many Germans said too. "I was just following orders!" Do we learn nothing from history? Freedom isn't free. It occasionally requires sacrifices and acts of bravery. If everyone just carries out the Nazis orders, well sorry hun, you're a Nazi helping a Nazi regime. They can't do evil if regular workers won't carry out the orders. Stop waiting for someone else to save us. WE have to save us.

You're talking about Germany, but there's literally a genocide going on in the middle east. If people need to quit their jobs, it's the ones working for military defense companies and companies that support genocide. Not the people in the NIH.

EVERYONE needs to start thinking more deeply about the societal implications of the work they do, and stop letting the wealthy hold a gun to our heads in the form of unemployment and homelessness, believing we have no other choice than to aid them in their endless profit seeking at the expense of literally every else on this planet.

We dont have to help them wage war. We dont have to help them destroy the environment. We dont have to help them enslave people in for profit prisons. We dont have to help them starve people for profit. You have agency, and the blood IS on your hands.

How does doing basic research on a daily basis equate to blood on people’s hands. Huge leap there.

Not the PP but at least half of what NIH conducts/funds is clinical/applied research. Either ways, if you're willing to look the other way as various groups are being ignored, insulted, and dehumanized (e.g., gender non-binary and trans communities, ethnic minority groups), you do have blood on your hands.

Hm, let's see a citation for that. Here we're talking about the intramural NIH program, which is what the article was implying as responsible for decisions being made by the Trump administration. Are you saying that half of the research in the intramural NIH program insults and dehumanizes various groups of people? Please show your work. If you need a place to start, here are the programs that comprise NIH: https://irp.nih.gov/
Please do tell us how we have blood on our hands.

Citation for what? And which article are you referring to? I'm saying people not standing up against the abhorrent new policies are complicit and have blood on their hands. I'm at the NIH. I've seen the deafening silence from IC leadership and am absolutely disgusted.

I’d like to see a citation for your statement that half of the IRP’s work insults and dehumanizes various groups of people. Because that’s what you said. You’re asking random people at NIH (like yourself, it seems) to quit, saying that we’re complicit. I don’t know about what you do at NIH, but I’m certainly not anywhere near the rooms where the DOGE idiots and Jay are systematically dismantling NIH. And if as a young investigator I quit, I take a lab full of people down with me, even though I pledged to train and foster their careers. And oh, by the way, it is highly unlikely that I’ll be able to stay in science much less move my lab elsewhere because they’re attacking extramural science too. The same goes for my trainees. Stop using basic scientists as the scapegoats here. Enough. NIH isn’t doing this, the Trump administration is doing this to science.

I didn't say anything about the IRP; you did. If you haven't changed anything about the way you do your science based on the EOs/new policies, then clearly this discussion doesn't apply to you.

The vast majority (90%?) of the NIH budget is extramural. I don't see many people pushing back or even acknowledging the harm being done, especially those in senior leadership. Staff have generally prioritized their own jobs over scientific integrity and the people served by their IC's mission. The least we can do is admit people have made this choice.

So be specific: you are mad at senior leadership. The most senior of which is a Trump appointee.

Most NIH researchers have zero say in the funding decisions. They are just trying to do their science and make a difference. And those that work on what the stupid Trump admin considers "DEI" are also losing positions and funding. Its atrocious.

Yes, and if you see my previous comment, I specifically called out IC leadership, although several levels of leadership have been silent. There are a few commenters here who keep equating NIH research with the IRP and they're likely unaware of what is happening on the extramural side. IMO most of the damage is from the latter.

I see. So you think IC directors are on this forum and that's why you told NIHers here to quit? That seems totally reasonable.

I didn't tell anyone to quit, but I'm definitely regretting discussing this topic here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you work for NIH and you follow along, then you are complicit.

Not true at all. We do not want all the career people to leave. That would be worse for the American people than what we have now.

The career people SHOULD leave. The results have been poor, the costs have been high, the average age is very high, and they’ve been coddled with 30 years of “immunity” from layoffs and five years of immunity from having to show up in-person for work. Any private sector company would clean house and hire younger people.

OMG - this is COMPLETELY AGEIST!

Ageism is every bit as harmful, odious, and vile as racism.

No it is not. Please stop. We literally live in a gerantocracy. Old people need to let go of the reigns at some freaking point and let the younger generations have something, anything, please!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you work for NIH and you follow along, then you are complicit.

People need their jobs moron.

Im sure that's what many Germans said too. "I was just following orders!" Do we learn nothing from history? Freedom isn't free. It occasionally requires sacrifices and acts of bravery. If everyone just carries out the Nazis orders, well sorry hun, you're a Nazi helping a Nazi regime. They can't do evil if regular workers won't carry out the orders. Stop waiting for someone else to save us. WE have to save us.

You're talking about Germany, but there's literally a genocide going on in the middle east. If people need to quit their jobs, it's the ones working for military defense companies and companies that support genocide. Not the people in the NIH.

EVERYONE needs to start thinking more deeply about the societal implications of the work they do, and stop letting the wealthy hold a gun to our heads in the form of unemployment and homelessness, believing we have no other choice than to aid them in their endless profit seeking at the expense of literally every else on this planet.

We dont have to help them wage war. We dont have to help them destroy the environment. We dont have to help them enslave people in for profit prisons. We dont have to help them starve people for profit. You have agency, and the blood IS on your hands.

How does doing basic research on a daily basis equate to blood on people’s hands. Huge leap there.

Not the PP but at least half of what NIH conducts/funds is clinical/applied research. Either ways, if you're willing to look the other way as various groups are being ignored, insulted, and dehumanized (e.g., gender non-binary and trans communities, ethnic minority groups), you do have blood on your hands.

Hm, let's see a citation for that. Here we're talking about the intramural NIH program, which is what the article was implying as responsible for decisions being made by the Trump administration. Are you saying that half of the research in the intramural NIH program insults and dehumanizes various groups of people? Please show your work. If you need a place to start, here are the programs that comprise NIH: https://irp.nih.gov/
Please do tell us how we have blood on our hands.

Citation for what? And which article are you referring to? I'm saying people not standing up against the abhorrent new policies are complicit and have blood on their hands. I'm at the NIH. I've seen the deafening silence from IC leadership and am absolutely disgusted.

I’d like to see a citation for your statement that half of the IRP’s work insults and dehumanizes various groups of people. Because that’s what you said. You’re asking random people at NIH (like yourself, it seems) to quit, saying that we’re complicit. I don’t know about what you do at NIH, but I’m certainly not anywhere near the rooms where the DOGE idiots and Jay are systematically dismantling NIH. And if as a young investigator I quit, I take a lab full of people down with me, even though I pledged to train and foster their careers. And oh, by the way, it is highly unlikely that I’ll be able to stay in science much less move my lab elsewhere because they’re attacking extramural science too. The same goes for my trainees. Stop using basic scientists as the scapegoats here. Enough. NIH isn’t doing this, the Trump administration is doing this to science.

I didn't say anything about the IRP; you did. If you haven't changed anything about the way you do your science based on the EOs/new policies, then clearly this discussion doesn't apply to you.

The vast majority (90%?) of the NIH budget is extramural. I don't see many people pushing back or even acknowledging the harm being done, especially those in senior leadership. Staff have generally prioritized their own jobs over scientific integrity and the people served by their IC's mission. The least we can do is admit people have made this choice.

So be specific: you are mad at senior leadership. The most senior of which is a Trump appointee.

Most NIH researchers have zero say in the funding decisions. They are just trying to do their science and make a difference. And those that work on what the stupid Trump admin considers "DEI" are also losing positions and funding. Its atrocious.

Yes, and if you see my previous comment, I specifically called out IC leadership, although several levels of leadership have been silent. There are a few commenters here who keep equating NIH research with the IRP and they're likely unaware of what is happening on the extramural side. IMO most of the damage is from the latter.

I see. So you think IC directors are on this forum and that's why you told NIHers here to quit? That seems totally reasonable.

I didn't tell anyone to quit, but I'm definitely regretting discussing this topic here.

You obviously never heard of the saying “better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it and remove all doubt”. 🤣

[Anonymous]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/21/us/nih-bans-grants-universities-dei-programs/index.html

The NIH just announced that any medical researcher who is thinking about boycotting Israel due to ethical reasons will have all their federal funding terminated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NIH, the federal agency responsible for conducting and supporting biomedical and public health research, is now threatening to prohibit (or claw back, post-award) any funding requests from universities that can’t or won’t decertify DEI programs, or that fail to silence criticisms of Israel via the BDS movement.

If you’re an American and you are not yet outraged at this blatant corruption and dismantling of the Constitution, maybe you’re not really an American where it counts anyway?

NIH needs to be cut in half if not more.

Just look at the inflated property values in Maryland around NIH. they have been transferring so much money from ordinary taxpayers to rich bureaucrats for a long long time.

I once signed up for a hang gliding course taught by an NIH lab workers. He lived in Arlington but worked at NIH. This is 90's, he never worked weekends, he never worked late. And he didn't have any stress. He had time to run a hang gliding business on the side in evenings and every weekend. I was jealous I must admit, since I was working software development with insane death march hours.

This has been long long overdue to just cut 50% of NIH.