Why not eat pork?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is it about this animal that makes it to the forbidden fruit list?
What was the reasoning back in the day?

People even now get sick every year eating shellfish and undercooked pork. People have died.

Back in biblical times, there were no microwaves to nuke the parasites and harmful bacteria in creatures which eat filth, feces, or feast on the dead. These animals God declared unclean to eat.

Similarly, God said not to wear mixed fabrics. Back in those days, there were no powerful detergents, no hot water rinse or steam cycles to destroy fleas and lice which hide and lay eggs in the gap between the two fabrics.

Note that there was no death sentence for eating unclean foods or wearing mixed fabrics but there was a death sentence for rape of a betrothed woman, homosexuality, and adultery.

And slavery! That was endorsed also! Don’t forget slavery!

I hear you. But ancient slavery was very different than industrial chattel slavery like in the American South

Different how?

Both involved owning people.

Your position is the one used by people trying to justify it. Here’s a suggestion: don’t do that! It is never OK to own another person, under any circumstances, and never has been. It’s immoral. Can’t we agree on that?

dp.. I've been a life long Christian and struggled with a lot of stuff in the Bible.

I now attend a fairly liberal church, and this is how the pastor explained it...

The Bible and those who wrote the letters (ie Paul) did so in the culture of their time, which included owning slaves, and subjugating women. Jesus didn't come to change the culture. He came to spread the Good News. IMO, He did not care about the culture or politics, which is why He didn't rail against Roman rule, nor did He claim to come to free people from Roman rule.

You have to read the Bible in the context and time period in which it was written. Slaves obey your masters; wives submit to t heir husbands.. these were all about keeping the peace and order in society. It was not about Jesus' teachings.

For example, child brides were not uncommon back in Biblical times, but we would never ok that. However, if you look at some fundamentalist extreme religions, they still think the practice of child brides is acceptable.

The principle of the Bible hasn't changed, but the day to day living has.

I used to belong to a conservative church, and they don't believe in drinking alcohol, yet Jesus drank wine. The way they explained it was that in the time, they had to drink wine because they didn't have clean water. But, we do today, so we shouldn't drink wine. But, they still believed in subjugating women.

People use all kinds of reasoning to support their beliefs.

I notice how you didn't - nor did anyone else - say the proper answer, which is this:

IT IS NEVER MORAL TO OWN A PERSON, AND THE BIBLE SHOULD SAY THAT.

That's really it. It's not debatable, and separate from the "god not existing" question. The fact that none of you jump to that conclusion should show you how much Kool-Aid you have consumed. To the point where you defend the indefensible.

But no statement like that from you or your bible. Plenty on graven images, paying taxes and wearing mixed fabrics, but no declaration that human beings should not be personal property.

If it were any other religion than your own you'd lose your flippin' minds over it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is it about this animal that makes it to the forbidden fruit list?
What was the reasoning back in the day?

People even now get sick every year eating shellfish and undercooked pork. People have died.

Back in biblical times, there were no microwaves to nuke the parasites and harmful bacteria in creatures which eat filth, feces, or feast on the dead. These animals God declared unclean to eat.

Similarly, God said not to wear mixed fabrics. Back in those days, there were no powerful detergents, no hot water rinse or steam cycles to destroy fleas and lice which hide and lay eggs in the gap between the two fabrics.

Note that there was no death sentence for eating unclean foods or wearing mixed fabrics but there was a death sentence for rape of a betrothed woman, homosexuality, and adultery.

And slavery! That was endorsed also! Don’t forget slavery!

I hear you. But ancient slavery was very different than industrial chattel slavery like in the American South

Different how?

Both involved owning people.

Your position is the one used by people trying to justify it. Here’s a suggestion: don’t do that! It is never OK to own another person, under any circumstances, and never has been. It’s immoral. Can’t we agree on that?

If you refuse to understand the outsize scale and cruelty of chattel slavery in early modern to modern day, I cannot help you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is it about this animal that makes it to the forbidden fruit list?
What was the reasoning back in the day?

People even now get sick every year eating shellfish and undercooked pork. People have died.

Back in biblical times, there were no microwaves to nuke the parasites and harmful bacteria in creatures which eat filth, feces, or feast on the dead. These animals God declared unclean to eat.

Similarly, God said not to wear mixed fabrics. Back in those days, there were no powerful detergents, no hot water rinse or steam cycles to destroy fleas and lice which hide and lay eggs in the gap between the two fabrics.

Note that there was no death sentence for eating unclean foods or wearing mixed fabrics but there was a death sentence for rape of a betrothed woman, homosexuality, and adultery.

And slavery! That was endorsed also! Don’t forget slavery!

I hear you. But ancient slavery was very different than industrial chattel slavery like in the American South

Different how?

Both involved owning people.

Your position is the one used by people trying to justify it. Here’s a suggestion: don’t do that! It is never OK to own another person, under any circumstances, and never has been. It’s immoral. Can’t we agree on that?

dp.. I've been a life long Christian and struggled with a lot of stuff in the Bible.

I now attend a fairly liberal church, and this is how the pastor explained it...

The Bible and those who wrote the letters (ie Paul) did so in the culture of their time, which included owning slaves, and subjugating women. Jesus didn't come to change the culture. He came to spread the Good News. IMO, He did not care about the culture or politics, which is why He didn't rail against Roman rule, nor did He claim to come to free people from Roman rule.

You have to read the Bible in the context and time period in which it was written. Slaves obey your masters; wives submit to t heir husbands.. these were all about keeping the peace and order in society. It was not about Jesus' teachings.

For example, child brides were not uncommon back in Biblical times, but we would never ok that. However, if you look at some fundamentalist extreme religions, they still think the practice of child brides is acceptable.

The principle of the Bible hasn't changed, but the day to day living has.

I used to belong to a conservative church, and they don't believe in drinking alcohol, yet Jesus drank wine. The way they explained it was that in the time, they had to drink wine because they didn't have clean water. But, we do today, so we shouldn't drink wine. But, they still believed in subjugating women.

People use all kinds of reasoning to support their beliefs.

I notice how you didn't - nor did anyone else - say the proper answer, which is this:

IT IS NEVER MORAL TO OWN A PERSON, AND THE BIBLE SHOULD SAY THAT.

That's really it. It's not debatable, and separate from the "god not existing" question. The fact that none of you jump to that conclusion should show you how much Kool-Aid you have consumed. To the point where you defend the indefensible.

But no statement like that from you or your bible. Plenty on graven images, paying taxes and wearing mixed fabrics, but no declaration that human beings should not be personal property.

If it were any other religion than your own you'd lose your flippin' minds over it.

Morality is subjective. Of course, we find slavery to be immoral today. But, that wasn't the case back then. All cultures had some form of slavery in their history. The Bible was written in ancient times, when many cultures had slavery.

You are looking at the Bible through the lens of today's morals. That's a mistake that even Christians make.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is it about this animal that makes it to the forbidden fruit list?
What was the reasoning back in the day?

People even now get sick every year eating shellfish and undercooked pork. People have died.

Back in biblical times, there were no microwaves to nuke the parasites and harmful bacteria in creatures which eat filth, feces, or feast on the dead. These animals God declared unclean to eat.

Similarly, God said not to wear mixed fabrics. Back in those days, there were no powerful detergents, no hot water rinse or steam cycles to destroy fleas and lice which hide and lay eggs in the gap between the two fabrics.

Note that there was no death sentence for eating unclean foods or wearing mixed fabrics but there was a death sentence for rape of a betrothed woman, homosexuality, and adultery.

And slavery! That was endorsed also! Don’t forget slavery!

I hear you. But ancient slavery was very different than industrial chattel slavery like in the American South

Different how?

Both involved owning people.

Your position is the one used by people trying to justify it. Here’s a suggestion: don’t do that! It is never OK to own another person, under any circumstances, and never has been. It’s immoral. Can’t we agree on that?

If you refuse to understand the outsize scale and cruelty of chattel slavery in early modern to modern day, I cannot help you.

If you refuse to understand that IT'S NEVER OK TO OWN A HUMAN BEING AS PROPERTY AND NEVER HAS BEEN then... well I cannot even begin. It's incomprehensible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is it about this animal that makes it to the forbidden fruit list?
What was the reasoning back in the day?

People even now get sick every year eating shellfish and undercooked pork. People have died.

Back in biblical times, there were no microwaves to nuke the parasites and harmful bacteria in creatures which eat filth, feces, or feast on the dead. These animals God declared unclean to eat.

Similarly, God said not to wear mixed fabrics. Back in those days, there were no powerful detergents, no hot water rinse or steam cycles to destroy fleas and lice which hide and lay eggs in the gap between the two fabrics.

Note that there was no death sentence for eating unclean foods or wearing mixed fabrics but there was a death sentence for rape of a betrothed woman, homosexuality, and adultery.

And slavery! That was endorsed also! Don’t forget slavery!

I hear you. But ancient slavery was very different than industrial chattel slavery like in the American South

Different how?

Both involved owning people.

Your position is the one used by people trying to justify it. Here’s a suggestion: don’t do that! It is never OK to own another person, under any circumstances, and never has been. It’s immoral. Can’t we agree on that?

dp.. I've been a life long Christian and struggled with a lot of stuff in the Bible.

I now attend a fairly liberal church, and this is how the pastor explained it...

The Bible and those who wrote the letters (ie Paul) did so in the culture of their time, which included owning slaves, and subjugating women. Jesus didn't come to change the culture. He came to spread the Good News. IMO, He did not care about the culture or politics, which is why He didn't rail against Roman rule, nor did He claim to come to free people from Roman rule.

You have to read the Bible in the context and time period in which it was written. Slaves obey your masters; wives submit to t heir husbands.. these were all about keeping the peace and order in society. It was not about Jesus' teachings.

For example, child brides were not uncommon back in Biblical times, but we would never ok that. However, if you look at some fundamentalist extreme religions, they still think the practice of child brides is acceptable.

The principle of the Bible hasn't changed, but the day to day living has.

I used to belong to a conservative church, and they don't believe in drinking alcohol, yet Jesus drank wine. The way they explained it was that in the time, they had to drink wine because they didn't have clean water. But, we do today, so we shouldn't drink wine. But, they still believed in subjugating women.

People use all kinds of reasoning to support their beliefs.

I notice how you didn't - nor did anyone else - say the proper answer, which is this:

IT IS NEVER MORAL TO OWN A PERSON, AND THE BIBLE SHOULD SAY THAT.

That's really it. It's not debatable, and separate from the "god not existing" question. The fact that none of you jump to that conclusion should show you how much Kool-Aid you have consumed. To the point where you defend the indefensible.

But no statement like that from you or your bible. Plenty on graven images, paying taxes and wearing mixed fabrics, but no declaration that human beings should not be personal property.

If it were any other religion than your own you'd lose your flippin' minds over it.

Morality is subjective. Of course, we find slavery to be immoral today. But, that wasn't the case back then. All cultures had some form of slavery in their history. The Bible was written in ancient times, when many cultures had slavery.

You are looking at the Bible through the lens of today's morals. That's a mistake that even Christians make.

Lol. So your position is the bible is not a reference for morality today? Wow, we 100% agree on that. But that means none of it is, you don't get to pick and choose.

Christians now claiming there is no objective morality from God. What's the world coming to?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is it about this animal that makes it to the forbidden fruit list?
What was the reasoning back in the day?

People even now get sick every year eating shellfish and undercooked pork. People have died.

Back in biblical times, there were no microwaves to nuke the parasites and harmful bacteria in creatures which eat filth, feces, or feast on the dead. These animals God declared unclean to eat.

Similarly, God said not to wear mixed fabrics. Back in those days, there were no powerful detergents, no hot water rinse or steam cycles to destroy fleas and lice which hide and lay eggs in the gap between the two fabrics.

Note that there was no death sentence for eating unclean foods or wearing mixed fabrics but there was a death sentence for rape of a betrothed woman, homosexuality, and adultery.

And slavery! That was endorsed also! Don’t forget slavery!

And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.—Exodus 21:16

Those people who stole Africans to sell into slavery —mostly Arabs and other Africans, would have received the death penalty.

There is a big difference between becoming a slave out of economic necessity and being kidnapped.

Most people in biblical times were farmers and herdsmen. If your crops failed or were destroyed by war or drought, it was either become a slave or starve to death.

You should thank God every day for the blessed life you have.

Wrong! He likely does not exist and if he does he’s an immoral slavery endorsing douche. And since you agree that there are circumstances when it was OK, you are an immoral person! Yes, you! It is NEVER MORAL TO OWN A HUMAN BEING. Clear enough? But here’s your guy’s take on that:

Genesis 9:18-27 -- Noah (the only righteous man on earth) decrees that his son Ham and his descendants shall be slaves. (This is punishment for Ham's crime of seeing his father naked)

Genesis 12:5 -- Abram (God's anointed prophet) purchased slaves in Harran.

Genesis 16:1-9 -- Sarai's slave fled after being mistreated. God's angel instructs her to return and submit to her mistress anyway.

Genesis 17:12-13 -- All males must be circumcised, including those who were bought.

Genesis 20:14 -- Abraham (God's anointed prophet) happily accepts slaves as a gift.

Genesis 47:13-26 -- Joseph purchases the entire population of Egypt for the Pharaoh, making them his servants for life.

Exodus 12:43-45 -- God instructs Moses and Aaron that their slaves may only eat food at the passsover meal after they have been circumcised.

Legal Dispensation : the period of time from the giving of the law until the coming of Christ

Exodus 20:17 -- God provides a list of belongings which are not to be coveted, including servants (implying that they are property).

Exodus 21:2-6 -- Israeli slaves must be set free after 7 years unless you trick them into wanting to stay by giving them a wife.

Exodus 21:7-11 -- How your daughter must be treated after you sell her into slavery.

Exodus 21:20-21 -- You may beat your slaves as long as they do not die within a couple days of the beating.

Exodus 21:26-27 -- You have to let your slave go free if you destroy their eye or knock out one of their teeth.

Exodus 22:2-3 -- A theif must pay restituion. If unable, he himself is to be sold.

Leviticus 19:20-21 -- God tells Moses and Aaron what to do with a man who sleeps with another man's female slave.

Leviticus 22:10-11 -- A priest's hired servant may not eat the sacred offering, but his slaves can.

Leviticus 25:44-46 -- You may buy slaves from the nations around you and bequeath them to your children as inherited property (except if they're Israelites).

Numbers 31 -- After the Israelites conquer the Midianites, Moses orders the execution of everyone except the virgin girls (including the male children). God then instructs Moses on how the 32,000 virgins are to be divvied up and given to the Israelites as their property.

Deuteronomy 15:12-18 -- Free your Hebrew slaves every 6 years. Do not consider this a hardship because their service was worth twice as much as a hired hand.

Deuteronomy 20:10-11 -- When attacking a city, offer them the option of being your slaves rather than being slaughtered.

Joshua 9 -- Joshua "saves" the Gibeonites from being slain by the Israelites. Instead, he makes them slaves to the Israelites in perpetuity.

Gospel Dispensation : the period of time from the coming of Christ to the end of time

Luke 17:7-10 -- Jesus says servants (i.e. slaves) should know their place and not expect thanks for the duties they are required to perform.

Ephesians 6:5-8 -- Slaves are to obey their masters as they would obey Christ.

Colossians 3:22 -- Paul tells the slaves of Colosse to "obey your earthly masters."

Colossians 4:1 -- Paul says masters should be fair to their slaves. (Tacitly endorsing the existence of slaves and masters)

1 Timothy 6:1-2 -- Slaves should consider their masters worthy of full respect.

Titus 2:9-10 -- In his letter, Paul instructs Titus to teach slaves to be obedient.

1 Peter 2:18 -- Slaves, submit to your masters; even the harsh ones.

God does indeed exist. It is so obvious, only a fool cannot see it. Think: where did the hydrogen come from? What is the origin of hydrogen?

And there are circumstances where it is ok to take slaves/indentured servants but it is NOT ok—ever, to kidnap someone to be made a slave.

What you are missing here is free will: some people, due to economic necessity, sold themselves into slavery. The alternative was to become a prostitute, a thief (very dangerous), or become a slave for a period of time.

In ancient Israel, all Hebrew slaves had to be freed after 6 years. Every 50 years, called a Jubilee year, all slaves were freed. Daniel the Prophet is the one who influenced Cyrus the Great to free all the slaves in the land.

You may thank the Jews for being the very first emancipators. You’re welcome.

In ancient times, when a nation was conquered, its men killed in battle, the women and children were left helpless. They would die without a man to till the earth or manhandle livestock thus, when Israel conquered a nation, to prevent women and children dying needlessly, they were taken as slaves.

Are you saying slavery is so bad, these women and children should die instead?

What you keep doing, and if you were in the room, I would thump you upside your hard head to maybe jar loose whatever presupposed crud is hindering your thinking so that you stop comparing slavery in the Antebellum South to slavery in Old Testament times. They were not the same.

The Midianites sacrificed babies to demonic gods. Imagine if Israel was next to Nazi Germany, Hitler screaming destruction to Israel. Should God allow Hitler to slaughter all the people of Israel, even the virgins and wipe it out, or should God enable Israel to rise up and wipe out Nazi Germany, taking its virgins as slaves because they would die otherwise?

God is the ultimate and final judge of the matter. We only see a tiny sliver whereas God sees the whole picture. I assure you, the way God did things back then, as now, is the 100% correct way for it to have been done.

Where did the hydrogen come from? That's your question? Why not just google that?

Hydrogen was primarily formed during the Big Bang nucleosynthesis process, a few minutes after the Big Bang, when the universe was still extremely hot and dense. As the universe cooled, protons and neutrons combined to form hydrogen nuclei. After 380,000 years, the universe cooled further, allowing electrons to bind to these nuclei, forming the first atoms of hydrogen and helium.

No god necessary!

ps I don't think you are a sincere poster.

Don't bother with this poster. It's our resident Bible thumping moron. At least he represents the part of America that most from the DC area are not accustomed to. I like to get a good laugh from his posts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is it about this animal that makes it to the forbidden fruit list?
What was the reasoning back in the day?

People even now get sick every year eating shellfish and undercooked pork. People have died.

Back in biblical times, there were no microwaves to nuke the parasites and harmful bacteria in creatures which eat filth, feces, or feast on the dead. These animals God declared unclean to eat.

Similarly, God said not to wear mixed fabrics. Back in those days, there were no powerful detergents, no hot water rinse or steam cycles to destroy fleas and lice which hide and lay eggs in the gap between the two fabrics.

Note that there was no death sentence for eating unclean foods or wearing mixed fabrics but there was a death sentence for rape of a betrothed woman, homosexuality, and adultery.

And slavery! That was endorsed also! Don’t forget slavery!

And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.—Exodus 21:16

Those people who stole Africans to sell into slavery —mostly Arabs and other Africans, would have received the death penalty.

There is a big difference between becoming a slave out of economic necessity and being kidnapped.

Most people in biblical times were farmers and herdsmen. If your crops failed or were destroyed by war or drought, it was either become a slave or starve to death.

You should thank God every day for the blessed life you have.

Wrong! He likely does not exist and if he does he’s an immoral slavery endorsing douche. And since you agree that there are circumstances when it was OK, you are an immoral person! Yes, you! It is NEVER MORAL TO OWN A HUMAN BEING. Clear enough? But here’s your guy’s take on that:

Genesis 9:18-27 -- Noah (the only righteous man on earth) decrees that his son Ham and his descendants shall be slaves. (This is punishment for Ham's crime of seeing his father naked)

Genesis 12:5 -- Abram (God's anointed prophet) purchased slaves in Harran.

Genesis 16:1-9 -- Sarai's slave fled after being mistreated. God's angel instructs her to return and submit to her mistress anyway.

Genesis 17:12-13 -- All males must be circumcised, including those who were bought.

Genesis 20:14 -- Abraham (God's anointed prophet) happily accepts slaves as a gift.

Genesis 47:13-26 -- Joseph purchases the entire population of Egypt for the Pharaoh, making them his servants for life.

Exodus 12:43-45 -- God instructs Moses and Aaron that their slaves may only eat food at the passsover meal after they have been circumcised.

Legal Dispensation : the period of time from the giving of the law until the coming of Christ

Exodus 20:17 -- God provides a list of belongings which are not to be coveted, including servants (implying that they are property).

Exodus 21:2-6 -- Israeli slaves must be set free after 7 years unless you trick them into wanting to stay by giving them a wife.

Exodus 21:7-11 -- How your daughter must be treated after you sell her into slavery.

Exodus 21:20-21 -- You may beat your slaves as long as they do not die within a couple days of the beating.

Exodus 21:26-27 -- You have to let your slave go free if you destroy their eye or knock out one of their teeth.

Exodus 22:2-3 -- A theif must pay restituion. If unable, he himself is to be sold.

Leviticus 19:20-21 -- God tells Moses and Aaron what to do with a man who sleeps with another man's female slave.

Leviticus 22:10-11 -- A priest's hired servant may not eat the sacred offering, but his slaves can.

Leviticus 25:44-46 -- You may buy slaves from the nations around you and bequeath them to your children as inherited property (except if they're Israelites).

Numbers 31 -- After the Israelites conquer the Midianites, Moses orders the execution of everyone except the virgin girls (including the male children). God then instructs Moses on how the 32,000 virgins are to be divvied up and given to the Israelites as their property.

Deuteronomy 15:12-18 -- Free your Hebrew slaves every 6 years. Do not consider this a hardship because their service was worth twice as much as a hired hand.

Deuteronomy 20:10-11 -- When attacking a city, offer them the option of being your slaves rather than being slaughtered.

Joshua 9 -- Joshua "saves" the Gibeonites from being slain by the Israelites. Instead, he makes them slaves to the Israelites in perpetuity.

Gospel Dispensation : the period of time from the coming of Christ to the end of time

Luke 17:7-10 -- Jesus says servants (i.e. slaves) should know their place and not expect thanks for the duties they are required to perform.

Ephesians 6:5-8 -- Slaves are to obey their masters as they would obey Christ.

Colossians 3:22 -- Paul tells the slaves of Colosse to "obey your earthly masters."

Colossians 4:1 -- Paul says masters should be fair to their slaves. (Tacitly endorsing the existence of slaves and masters)

1 Timothy 6:1-2 -- Slaves should consider their masters worthy of full respect.

Titus 2:9-10 -- In his letter, Paul instructs Titus to teach slaves to be obedient.

1 Peter 2:18 -- Slaves, submit to your masters; even the harsh ones.

God does indeed exist. It is so obvious, only a fool cannot see it. Think: where did the hydrogen come from? What is the origin of hydrogen?

And there are circumstances where it is ok to take slaves/indentured servants but it is NOT ok—ever, to kidnap someone to be made a slave.

What you are missing here is free will: some people, due to economic necessity, sold themselves into slavery. The alternative was to become a prostitute, a thief (very dangerous), or become a slave for a period of time.

In ancient Israel, all Hebrew slaves had to be freed after 6 years. Every 50 years, called a Jubilee year, all slaves were freed. Daniel the Prophet is the one who influenced Cyrus the Great to free all the slaves in the land.

You may thank the Jews for being the very first emancipators. You’re welcome.

In ancient times, when a nation was conquered, its men killed in battle, the women and children were left helpless. They would die without a man to till the earth or manhandle livestock thus, when Israel conquered a nation, to prevent women and children dying needlessly, they were taken as slaves.

Are you saying slavery is so bad, these women and children should die instead?

What you keep doing, and if you were in the room, I would thump you upside your hard head to maybe jar loose whatever presupposed crud is hindering your thinking so that you stop comparing slavery in the Antebellum South to slavery in Old Testament times. They were not the same.

The Midianites sacrificed babies to demonic gods. Imagine if Israel was next to Nazi Germany, Hitler screaming destruction to Israel. Should God allow Hitler to slaughter all the people of Israel, even the virgins and wipe it out, or should God enable Israel to rise up and wipe out Nazi Germany, taking its virgins as slaves because they would die otherwise?

God is the ultimate and final judge of the matter. We only see a tiny sliver whereas God sees the whole picture. I assure you, the way God did things back then, as now, is the 100% correct way for it to have been done.

Where did the hydrogen come from? That's your question? Why not just google that?

Hydrogen was primarily formed during the Big Bang nucleosynthesis process, a few minutes after the Big Bang, when the universe was still extremely hot and dense. As the universe cooled, protons and neutrons combined to form hydrogen nuclei. After 380,000 years, the universe cooled further, allowing electrons to bind to these nuclei, forming the first atoms of hydrogen and helium.

No god necessary

/ ps I don't think you are a sincere poster.

I am a sincere poster, not perfect by any means, but sincerely mean what I say.

No god necessary? Au contraire, dear atheist. For the Big Bang to have happened, an external force (God) would have had to create the matter for there to be any kind of reaction.

Bang! God caused it to happen.

The way I see it is like a pool table. The balls (matter) are racked up and God strikes the cue ball sending the balls scattering across the table.

That would explain how planets spin, for they cannot spin themselves without an outside force having first caused their rotation.

But it matters not, you will rationalize away the evidence to prove yourself “correct”: “There sho’nuff ain’t no god and hain’t never been one. I win!”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is it about this animal that makes it to the forbidden fruit list?
What was the reasoning back in the day?

People even now get sick every year eating shellfish and undercooked pork. People have died.

Back in biblical times, there were no microwaves to nuke the parasites and harmful bacteria in creatures which eat filth, feces, or feast on the dead. These animals God declared unclean to eat.

Similarly, God said not to wear mixed fabrics. Back in those days, there were no powerful detergents, no hot water rinse or steam cycles to destroy fleas and lice which hide and lay eggs in the gap between the two fabrics.

Note that there was no death sentence for eating unclean foods or wearing mixed fabrics but there was a death sentence for rape of a betrothed woman, homosexuality, and adultery.

And slavery! That was endorsed also! Don’t forget slavery!

I hear you. But ancient slavery was very different than industrial chattel slavery like in the American South

Different how?

Both involved owning people.

Your position is the one used by people trying to justify it. Here’s a suggestion: don’t do that! It is never OK to own another person, under any circumstances, and never has been. It’s immoral. Can’t we agree on that?

dp.. I've been a life long Christian and struggled with a lot of stuff in the Bible.

I now attend a fairly liberal church, and this is how the pastor explained it...

The Bible and those who wrote the letters (ie Paul) did so in the culture of their time, which included owning slaves, and subjugating women. Jesus didn't come to change the culture. He came to spread the Good News. IMO, He did not care about the culture or politics, which is why He didn't rail against Roman rule, nor did He claim to come to free people from Roman rule.

You have to read the Bible in the context and time period in which it was written. Slaves obey your masters; wives submit to t heir husbands.. these were all about keeping the peace and order in society. It was not about Jesus' teachings.

For example, child brides were not uncommon back in Biblical times, but we would never ok that. However, if you look at some fundamentalist extreme religions, they still think the practice of child brides is acceptable.

The principle of the Bible hasn't changed, but the day to day living has.

I used to belong to a conservative church, and they don't believe in drinking alcohol, yet Jesus drank wine. The way they explained it was that in the time, they had to drink wine because they didn't have clean water. But, we do today, so we shouldn't drink wine. But, they still believed in subjugating women.

People use all kinds of reasoning to support their beliefs.

I notice how you didn't - nor did anyone else - say the proper answer, which is this:

IT IS NEVER MORAL TO OWN A PERSON, AND THE BIBLE SHOULD SAY THAT.

That's really it. It's not debatable, and separate from the "god not existing" question. The fact that none of you jump to that conclusion should show you how much Kool-Aid you have consumed. To the point where you defend the indefensible.

But no statement like that from you or your bible. Plenty on graven images, paying taxes and wearing mixed fabrics, but no declaration that human beings should not be personal property.

If it were any other religion than your own you'd lose your flippin' minds over it.

Morality is subjective. Of course, we find slavery to be immoral today. But, that wasn't the case back then. All cultures had some form of slavery in their history. The Bible was written in ancient times, when many cultures had slavery.

You are looking at the Bible through the lens of today's morals. That's a mistake that even Christians make.

Lol. So your position is the bible is not a reference for morality today? Wow, we 100% agree on that. But that means none of it is, you don't get to pick and choose.

Christians now claiming there is no objective morality from God. What's the world coming to?

It's clear that you do not understand religion or the Bible.

The only morals from God are the 10 commandments, the Golden Rule, and Jesus teachings. That is why Jesus did not touch on certain subjects. He did not care about culture or politics.

Everything else was based on the culture of the time. People weave their subjective morals into their religion. That is not just a Christian thing. Most of the Christian holidays and traditions were basically an amalgamation of local culture and Christianity. Dec 25 is not actually Jesus birthday. Christians hijacked that day from the pagans who celebrated winter solstice. There are lots of examples like this. It doesn't make the day any less special since we don't really know the exact date Jesus was born, so picking a day and celebrating is as good as it gets.

Please go take religion class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is it about this animal that makes it to the forbidden fruit list?
What was the reasoning back in the day?

People even now get sick every year eating shellfish and undercooked pork. People have died.

Back in biblical times, there were no microwaves to nuke the parasites and harmful bacteria in creatures which eat filth, feces, or feast on the dead. These animals God declared unclean to eat.

Similarly, God said not to wear mixed fabrics. Back in those days, there were no powerful detergents, no hot water rinse or steam cycles to destroy fleas and lice which hide and lay eggs in the gap between the two fabrics.

Note that there was no death sentence for eating unclean foods or wearing mixed fabrics but there was a death sentence for rape of a betrothed woman, homosexuality, and adultery.

And slavery! That was endorsed also! Don’t forget slavery!

And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.—Exodus 21:16

Those people who stole Africans to sell into slavery —mostly Arabs and other Africans, would have received the death penalty.

There is a big difference between becoming a slave out of economic necessity and being kidnapped.

Most people in biblical times were farmers and herdsmen. If your crops failed or were destroyed by war or drought, it was either become a slave or starve to death.

You should thank God every day for the blessed life you have.

Wrong! He likely does not exist and if he does he’s an immoral slavery endorsing douche. And since you agree that there are circumstances when it was OK, you are an immoral person! Yes, you! It is NEVER MORAL TO OWN A HUMAN BEING. Clear enough? But here’s your guy’s take on that:

Genesis 9:18-27 -- Noah (the only righteous man on earth) decrees that his son Ham and his descendants shall be slaves. (This is punishment for Ham's crime of seeing his father naked)

Genesis 12:5 -- Abram (God's anointed prophet) purchased slaves in Harran.

Genesis 16:1-9 -- Sarai's slave fled after being mistreated. God's angel instructs her to return and submit to her mistress anyway.

Genesis 17:12-13 -- All males must be circumcised, including those who were bought.

Genesis 20:14 -- Abraham (God's anointed prophet) happily accepts slaves as a gift.

Genesis 47:13-26 -- Joseph purchases the entire population of Egypt for the Pharaoh, making them his servants for life.

Exodus 12:43-45 -- God instructs Moses and Aaron that their slaves may only eat food at the passsover meal after they have been circumcised.

Legal Dispensation : the period of time from the giving of the law until the coming of Christ

Exodus 20:17 -- God provides a list of belongings which are not to be coveted, including servants (implying that they are property).

Exodus 21:2-6 -- Israeli slaves must be set free after 7 years unless you trick them into wanting to stay by giving them a wife.

Exodus 21:7-11 -- How your daughter must be treated after you sell her into slavery.

Exodus 21:20-21 -- You may beat your slaves as long as they do not die within a couple days of the beating.

Exodus 21:26-27 -- You have to let your slave go free if you destroy their eye or knock out one of their teeth.

Exodus 22:2-3 -- A theif must pay restituion. If unable, he himself is to be sold.

Leviticus 19:20-21 -- God tells Moses and Aaron what to do with a man who sleeps with another man's female slave.

Leviticus 22:10-11 -- A priest's hired servant may not eat the sacred offering, but his slaves can.

Leviticus 25:44-46 -- You may buy slaves from the nations around you and bequeath them to your children as inherited property (except if they're Israelites).

Numbers 31 -- After the Israelites conquer the Midianites, Moses orders the execution of everyone except the virgin girls (including the male children). God then instructs Moses on how the 32,000 virgins are to be divvied up and given to the Israelites as their property.

Deuteronomy 15:12-18 -- Free your Hebrew slaves every 6 years. Do not consider this a hardship because their service was worth twice as much as a hired hand.

Deuteronomy 20:10-11 -- When attacking a city, offer them the option of being your slaves rather than being slaughtered.

Joshua 9 -- Joshua "saves" the Gibeonites from being slain by the Israelites. Instead, he makes them slaves to the Israelites in perpetuity.

Gospel Dispensation : the period of time from the coming of Christ to the end of time

Luke 17:7-10 -- Jesus says servants (i.e. slaves) should know their place and not expect thanks for the duties they are required to perform.

Ephesians 6:5-8 -- Slaves are to obey their masters as they would obey Christ.

Colossians 3:22 -- Paul tells the slaves of Colosse to "obey your earthly masters."

Colossians 4:1 -- Paul says masters should be fair to their slaves. (Tacitly endorsing the existence of slaves and masters)

1 Timothy 6:1-2 -- Slaves should consider their masters worthy of full respect.

Titus 2:9-10 -- In his letter, Paul instructs Titus to teach slaves to be obedient.

1 Peter 2:18 -- Slaves, submit to your masters; even the harsh ones.

God does indeed exist. It is so obvious, only a fool cannot see it. Think: where did the hydrogen come from? What is the origin of hydrogen?

And there are circumstances where it is ok to take slaves/indentured servants but it is NOT ok—ever, to kidnap someone to be made a slave.

What you are missing here is free will: some people, due to economic necessity, sold themselves into slavery. The alternative was to become a prostitute, a thief (very dangerous), or become a slave for a period of time.

In ancient Israel, all Hebrew slaves had to be freed after 6 years. Every 50 years, called a Jubilee year, all slaves were freed. Daniel the Prophet is the one who influenced Cyrus the Great to free all the slaves in the land.

You may thank the Jews for being the very first emancipators. You’re welcome.

In ancient times, when a nation was conquered, its men killed in battle, the women and children were left helpless. They would die without a man to till the earth or manhandle livestock thus, when Israel conquered a nation, to prevent women and children dying needlessly, they were taken as slaves.

Are you saying slavery is so bad, these women and children should die instead?

What you keep doing, and if you were in the room, I would thump you upside your hard head to maybe jar loose whatever presupposed crud is hindering your thinking so that you stop comparing slavery in the Antebellum South to slavery in Old Testament times. They were not the same.

The Midianites sacrificed babies to demonic gods. Imagine if Israel was next to Nazi Germany, Hitler screaming destruction to Israel. Should God allow Hitler to slaughter all the people of Israel, even the virgins and wipe it out, or should God enable Israel to rise up and wipe out Nazi Germany, taking its virgins as slaves because they would die otherwise?

God is the ultimate and final judge of the matter. We only see a tiny sliver whereas God sees the whole picture. I assure you, the way God did things back then, as now, is the 100% correct way for it to have been done.

Where did the hydrogen come from? That's your question? Why not just google that?

Hydrogen was primarily formed during the Big Bang nucleosynthesis process, a few minutes after the Big Bang, when the universe was still extremely hot and dense. As the universe cooled, protons and neutrons combined to form hydrogen nuclei. After 380,000 years, the universe cooled further, allowing electrons to bind to these nuclei, forming the first atoms of hydrogen and helium.

No god necessary

/ ps I don't think you are a sincere poster.

I am a sincere poster, not perfect by any means, but sincerely mean what I say.

No god necessary? Au contraire, dear atheist. For the Big Bang to have happened, an external force (God) would have had to create the matter for there to be any kind of reaction.

That is a big claim you are going to have to back up. There is plenty of evidence for the scientific explanation provided but none for yours. What is your evidence?

Bang! God caused it to happen.

The way I see it is like a pool table. The balls (matter) are racked up and God strikes the cue ball sending the balls scattering across the table.

Another claim. You need to show evidence for it. What is your evidence?

That would explain how planets spin, for they cannot spin themselves without an outside force having first caused their rotation.

There's already an explanation with evidence for why planets spin:

Planets spin due to the conservation of angular momentum during their formation. This principle states that an object's rotational motion tends to persist unless acted upon by an external force, and there are very few such forces in the vacuum of space. During the formation of a solar system, a massive cloud of gas and dust collapses under its own gravity, initially spinning due to its own motion. As this cloud collapses, it spins faster and flattens into a disk-like structure. Planets then form within this disk, inheriting the spinning motion of the original cloud.

Again, no god necessary.

But it matters not, you will rationalize away the evidence to prove yourself “correct”: “There sho’nuff ain’t no god and hain’t never been one. I win!”

No, I will follow the evidence and believe things that are justified. Please don't be petulant. There's no need to and it doesn't help your case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is it about this animal that makes it to the forbidden fruit list?
What was the reasoning back in the day?

People even now get sick every year eating shellfish and undercooked pork. People have died.

Back in biblical times, there were no microwaves to nuke the parasites and harmful bacteria in creatures which eat filth, feces, or feast on the dead. These animals God declared unclean to eat.

Similarly, God said not to wear mixed fabrics. Back in those days, there were no powerful detergents, no hot water rinse or steam cycles to destroy fleas and lice which hide and lay eggs in the gap between the two fabrics.

Note that there was no death sentence for eating unclean foods or wearing mixed fabrics but there was a death sentence for rape of a betrothed woman, homosexuality, and adultery.

And slavery! That was endorsed also! Don’t forget slavery!

And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.—Exodus 21:16

Those people who stole Africans to sell into slavery —mostly Arabs and other Africans, would have received the death penalty.

There is a big difference between becoming a slave out of economic necessity and being kidnapped.

Most people in biblical times were farmers and herdsmen. If your crops failed or were destroyed by war or drought, it was either become a slave or starve to death.

You should thank God every day for the blessed life you have.

Wrong! He likely does not exist and if he does he’s an immoral slavery endorsing douche. And since you agree that there are circumstances when it was OK, you are an immoral person! Yes, you! It is NEVER MORAL TO OWN A HUMAN BEING. Clear enough? But here’s your guy’s take on that:

Genesis 9:18-27 -- Noah (the only righteous man on earth) decrees that his son Ham and his descendants shall be slaves. (This is punishment for Ham's crime of seeing his father naked)

Genesis 12:5 -- Abram (God's anointed prophet) purchased slaves in Harran.

Genesis 16:1-9 -- Sarai's slave fled after being mistreated. God's angel instructs her to return and submit to her mistress anyway.

Genesis 17:12-13 -- All males must be circumcised, including those who were bought.

Genesis 20:14 -- Abraham (God's anointed prophet) happily accepts slaves as a gift.

Genesis 47:13-26 -- Joseph purchases the entire population of Egypt for the Pharaoh, making them his servants for life.

Exodus 12:43-45 -- God instructs Moses and Aaron that their slaves may only eat food at the passsover meal after they have been circumcised.

Legal Dispensation : the period of time from the giving of the law until the coming of Christ

Exodus 20:17 -- God provides a list of belongings which are not to be coveted, including servants (implying that they are property).

Exodus 21:2-6 -- Israeli slaves must be set free after 7 years unless you trick them into wanting to stay by giving them a wife.

Exodus 21:7-11 -- How your daughter must be treated after you sell her into slavery.

Exodus 21:20-21 -- You may beat your slaves as long as they do not die within a couple days of the beating.

Exodus 21:26-27 -- You have to let your slave go free if you destroy their eye or knock out one of their teeth.

Exodus 22:2-3 -- A theif must pay restituion. If unable, he himself is to be sold.

Leviticus 19:20-21 -- God tells Moses and Aaron what to do with a man who sleeps with another man's female slave.

Leviticus 22:10-11 -- A priest's hired servant may not eat the sacred offering, but his slaves can.

Leviticus 25:44-46 -- You may buy slaves from the nations around you and bequeath them to your children as inherited property (except if they're Israelites).

Numbers 31 -- After the Israelites conquer the Midianites, Moses orders the execution of everyone except the virgin girls (including the male children). God then instructs Moses on how the 32,000 virgins are to be divvied up and given to the Israelites as their property.

Deuteronomy 15:12-18 -- Free your Hebrew slaves every 6 years. Do not consider this a hardship because their service was worth twice as much as a hired hand.

Deuteronomy 20:10-11 -- When attacking a city, offer them the option of being your slaves rather than being slaughtered.

Joshua 9 -- Joshua "saves" the Gibeonites from being slain by the Israelites. Instead, he makes them slaves to the Israelites in perpetuity.

Gospel Dispensation : the period of time from the coming of Christ to the end of time

Luke 17:7-10 -- Jesus says servants (i.e. slaves) should know their place and not expect thanks for the duties they are required to perform.

Ephesians 6:5-8 -- Slaves are to obey their masters as they would obey Christ.

Colossians 3:22 -- Paul tells the slaves of Colosse to "obey your earthly masters."

Colossians 4:1 -- Paul says masters should be fair to their slaves. (Tacitly endorsing the existence of slaves and masters)

1 Timothy 6:1-2 -- Slaves should consider their masters worthy of full respect.

Titus 2:9-10 -- In his letter, Paul instructs Titus to teach slaves to be obedient.

1 Peter 2:18 -- Slaves, submit to your masters; even the harsh ones.

God does indeed exist. It is so obvious, only a fool cannot see it. Think: where did the hydrogen come from? What is the origin of hydrogen?

And there are circumstances where it is ok to take slaves/indentured servants but it is NOT ok—ever, to kidnap someone to be made a slave.

What you are missing here is free will: some people, due to economic necessity, sold themselves into slavery. The alternative was to become a prostitute, a thief (very dangerous), or become a slave for a period of time.

In ancient Israel, all Hebrew slaves had to be freed after 6 years. Every 50 years, called a Jubilee year, all slaves were freed. Daniel the Prophet is the one who influenced Cyrus the Great to free all the slaves in the land.

You may thank the Jews for being the very first emancipators. You’re welcome.

In ancient times, when a nation was conquered, its men killed in battle, the women and children were left helpless. They would die without a man to till the earth or manhandle livestock thus, when Israel conquered a nation, to prevent women and children dying needlessly, they were taken as slaves.

Are you saying slavery is so bad, these women and children should die instead?

What you keep doing, and if you were in the room, I would thump you upside your hard head to maybe jar loose whatever presupposed crud is hindering your thinking so that you stop comparing slavery in the Antebellum South to slavery in Old Testament times. They were not the same.

The Midianites sacrificed babies to demonic gods. Imagine if Israel was next to Nazi Germany, Hitler screaming destruction to Israel. Should God allow Hitler to slaughter all the people of Israel, even the virgins and wipe it out, or should God enable Israel to rise up and wipe out Nazi Germany, taking its virgins as slaves because they would die otherwise?

God is the ultimate and final judge of the matter. We only see a tiny sliver whereas God sees the whole picture. I assure you, the way God did things back then, as now, is the 100% correct way for it to have been done.

Where did the hydrogen come from? That's your question? Why not just google that?

Hydrogen was primarily formed during the Big Bang nucleosynthesis process, a few minutes after the Big Bang, when the universe was still extremely hot and dense. As the universe cooled, protons and neutrons combined to form hydrogen nuclei. After 380,000 years, the universe cooled further, allowing electrons to bind to these nuclei, forming the first atoms of hydrogen and helium.

No god necessary

/ ps I don't think you are a sincere poster.

I am a sincere poster, not perfect by any means, but sincerely mean what I say.

No god necessary? Au contraire, dear atheist. For the Big Bang to have happened, an external force (God) would have had to create the matter for there to be any kind of reaction.

Bang! God caused it to happen.

The way I see it is like a pool table. The balls (matter) are racked up and God strikes the cue ball sending the balls scattering across the table.

That would explain how planets spin, for they cannot spin themselves without an outside force having first caused their rotation.

But it matters not, you will rationalize away the evidence to prove yourself “correct”: “There sho’nuff ain’t no god and hain’t never been one. I win!”

dp.. listen, I'm a Christian, but you aren't helping yourself.

There are scientific reasons why the earth spins. Ask any decent physicist. There are some things that humans cannot explain, and IMO, we will never be able to comprehend everything. But, 1000 years ago, people believed the earth was flat, but a scientist discovered that it wasn't. And of course, he was imprisoned for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is it about this animal that makes it to the forbidden fruit list?
What was the reasoning back in the day?

People even now get sick every year eating shellfish and undercooked pork. People have died.

Back in biblical times, there were no microwaves to nuke the parasites and harmful bacteria in creatures which eat filth, feces, or feast on the dead. These animals God declared unclean to eat.

Similarly, God said not to wear mixed fabrics. Back in those days, there were no powerful detergents, no hot water rinse or steam cycles to destroy fleas and lice which hide and lay eggs in the gap between the two fabrics.

Note that there was no death sentence for eating unclean foods or wearing mixed fabrics but there was a death sentence for rape of a betrothed woman, homosexuality, and adultery.

And slavery! That was endorsed also! Don’t forget slavery!

I hear you. But ancient slavery was very different than industrial chattel slavery like in the American South

Different how?

Both involved owning people.

Your position is the one used by people trying to justify it. Here’s a suggestion: don’t do that! It is never OK to own another person, under any circumstances, and never has been. It’s immoral. Can’t we agree on that?

dp.. I've been a life long Christian and struggled with a lot of stuff in the Bible.

I now attend a fairly liberal church, and this is how the pastor explained it...

The Bible and those who wrote the letters (ie Paul) did so in the culture of their time, which included owning slaves, and subjugating women. Jesus didn't come to change the culture. He came to spread the Good News. IMO, He did not care about the culture or politics, which is why He didn't rail against Roman rule, nor did He claim to come to free people from Roman rule.

You have to read the Bible in the context and time period in which it was written. Slaves obey your masters; wives submit to t heir husbands.. these were all about keeping the peace and order in society. It was not about Jesus' teachings.

For example, child brides were not uncommon back in Biblical times, but we would never ok that. However, if you look at some fundamentalist extreme religions, they still think the practice of child brides is acceptable.

The principle of the Bible hasn't changed, but the day to day living has.

I used to belong to a conservative church, and they don't believe in drinking alcohol, yet Jesus drank wine. The way they explained it was that in the time, they had to drink wine because they didn't have clean water. But, we do today, so we shouldn't drink wine. But, they still believed in subjugating women.

People use all kinds of reasoning to support their beliefs.

I notice how you didn't - nor did anyone else - say the proper answer, which is this:

IT IS NEVER MORAL TO OWN A PERSON, AND THE BIBLE SHOULD SAY THAT.

That's really it. It's not debatable, and separate from the "god not existing" question. The fact that none of you jump to that conclusion should show you how much Kool-Aid you have consumed. To the point where you defend the indefensible.

But no statement like that from you or your bible. Plenty on graven images, paying taxes and wearing mixed fabrics, but no declaration that human beings should not be personal property.

If it were any other religion than your own you'd lose your flippin' minds over it.

Morality is subjective. Of course, we find slavery to be immoral today. But, that wasn't the case back then. All cultures had some form of slavery in their history. The Bible was written in ancient times, when many cultures had slavery.

You are looking at the Bible through the lens of today's morals. That's a mistake that even Christians make.

Lol. So your position is the bible is not a reference for morality today? Wow, we 100% agree on that. But that means none of it is, you don't get to pick and choose.

Christians now claiming there is no objective morality from God. What's the world coming to?

It's clear that you do not understand religion or the Bible.

The only morals from God are the 10 commandments, the Golden Rule, and Jesus teachings. That is why Jesus did not touch on certain subjects. He did not care about culture or politics.

Everything else was based on the culture of the time. People weave their subjective morals into their religion. That is not just a Christian thing. Most of the Christian holidays and traditions were basically an amalgamation of local culture and Christianity. Dec 25 is not actually Jesus birthday. Christians hijacked that day from the pagans who celebrated winter solstice. There are lots of examples like this. It doesn't make the day any less special since we don't really know the exact date Jesus was born, so picking a day and celebrating is as good as it gets.

Please go take religion class.

What you have done is called "ad hominem", which means attacking the messenger instead of addressing the message. I get why you would do that, as you have taken an absolutely indefensible position - defending slavery. In your position, it was OK back then. In mine, it was not. And FYI I've taken plenty of religion classes, and read many books on the subject.

Also, are you claiming that people do not try to use the bible to enforce their morality on others today? Using Leviticus and other chapters than the ones you mention? Please don't tell me you think that. Or I else I would have to respond in kind and ask you to read a newspaper.

[Anonymous]

You are what you eat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is it about this animal that makes it to the forbidden fruit list?
What was the reasoning back in the day?

People even now get sick every year eating shellfish and undercooked pork. People have died.

Back in biblical times, there were no microwaves to nuke the parasites and harmful bacteria in creatures which eat filth, feces, or feast on the dead. These animals God declared unclean to eat.

Similarly, God said not to wear mixed fabrics. Back in those days, there were no powerful detergents, no hot water rinse or steam cycles to destroy fleas and lice which hide and lay eggs in the gap between the two fabrics.

Note that there was no death sentence for eating unclean foods or wearing mixed fabrics but there was a death sentence for rape of a betrothed woman, homosexuality, and adultery.

And slavery! That was endorsed also! Don’t forget slavery!

And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.—Exodus 21:16

Those people who stole Africans to sell into slavery —mostly Arabs and other Africans, would have received the death penalty.

There is a big difference between becoming a slave out of economic necessity and being kidnapped.

Most people in biblical times were farmers and herdsmen. If your crops failed or were destroyed by war or drought, it was either become a slave or starve to death.

You should thank God every day for the blessed life you have.

Wrong! He likely does not exist and if he does he’s an immoral slavery endorsing douche. And since you agree that there are circumstances when it was OK, you are an immoral person! Yes, you! It is NEVER MORAL TO OWN A HUMAN BEING. Clear enough? But here’s your guy’s take on that:

Genesis 9:18-27 -- Noah (the only righteous man on earth) decrees that his son Ham and his descendants shall be slaves. (This is punishment for Ham's crime of seeing his father naked)

Genesis 12:5 -- Abram (God's anointed prophet) purchased slaves in Harran.

Genesis 16:1-9 -- Sarai's slave fled after being mistreated. God's angel instructs her to return and submit to her mistress anyway.

Genesis 17:12-13 -- All males must be circumcised, including those who were bought.

Genesis 20:14 -- Abraham (God's anointed prophet) happily accepts slaves as a gift.

Genesis 47:13-26 -- Joseph purchases the entire population of Egypt for the Pharaoh, making them his servants for life.

Exodus 12:43-45 -- God instructs Moses and Aaron that their slaves may only eat food at the passsover meal after they have been circumcised.

Legal Dispensation : the period of time from the giving of the law until the coming of Christ

Exodus 20:17 -- God provides a list of belongings which are not to be coveted, including servants (implying that they are property).

Exodus 21:2-6 -- Israeli slaves must be set free after 7 years unless you trick them into wanting to stay by giving them a wife.

Exodus 21:7-11 -- How your daughter must be treated after you sell her into slavery.

Exodus 21:20-21 -- You may beat your slaves as long as they do not die within a couple days of the beating.

Exodus 21:26-27 -- You have to let your slave go free if you destroy their eye or knock out one of their teeth.

Exodus 22:2-3 -- A theif must pay restituion. If unable, he himself is to be sold.

Leviticus 19:20-21 -- God tells Moses and Aaron what to do with a man who sleeps with another man's female slave.

Leviticus 22:10-11 -- A priest's hired servant may not eat the sacred offering, but his slaves can.

Leviticus 25:44-46 -- You may buy slaves from the nations around you and bequeath them to your children as inherited property (except if they're Israelites).

Numbers 31 -- After the Israelites conquer the Midianites, Moses orders the execution of everyone except the virgin girls (including the male children). God then instructs Moses on how the 32,000 virgins are to be divvied up and given to the Israelites as their property.

Deuteronomy 15:12-18 -- Free your Hebrew slaves every 6 years. Do not consider this a hardship because their service was worth twice as much as a hired hand.

Deuteronomy 20:10-11 -- When attacking a city, offer them the option of being your slaves rather than being slaughtered.

Joshua 9 -- Joshua "saves" the Gibeonites from being slain by the Israelites. Instead, he makes them slaves to the Israelites in perpetuity.

Gospel Dispensation : the period of time from the coming of Christ to the end of time

Luke 17:7-10 -- Jesus says servants (i.e. slaves) should know their place and not expect thanks for the duties they are required to perform.

Ephesians 6:5-8 -- Slaves are to obey their masters as they would obey Christ.

Colossians 3:22 -- Paul tells the slaves of Colosse to "obey your earthly masters."

Colossians 4:1 -- Paul says masters should be fair to their slaves. (Tacitly endorsing the existence of slaves and masters)

1 Timothy 6:1-2 -- Slaves should consider their masters worthy of full respect.

Titus 2:9-10 -- In his letter, Paul instructs Titus to teach slaves to be obedient.

1 Peter 2:18 -- Slaves, submit to your masters; even the harsh ones.

God does indeed exist. It is so obvious, only a fool cannot see it. Think: where did the hydrogen come from? What is the origin of hydrogen?

And there are circumstances where it is ok to take slaves/indentured servants but it is NOT ok—ever, to kidnap someone to be made a slave.

What you are missing here is free will: some people, due to economic necessity, sold themselves into slavery. The alternative was to become a prostitute, a thief (very dangerous), or become a slave for a period of time.

In ancient Israel, all Hebrew slaves had to be freed after 6 years. Every 50 years, called a Jubilee year, all slaves were freed. Daniel the Prophet is the one who influenced Cyrus the Great to free all the slaves in the land.

You may thank the Jews for being the very first emancipators. You’re welcome.

In ancient times, when a nation was conquered, its men killed in battle, the women and children were left helpless. They would die without a man to till the earth or manhandle livestock thus, when Israel conquered a nation, to prevent women and children dying needlessly, they were taken as slaves.

Are you saying slavery is so bad, these women and children should die instead?

What you keep doing, and if you were in the room, I would thump you upside your hard head to maybe jar loose whatever presupposed crud is hindering your thinking so that you stop comparing slavery in the Antebellum South to slavery in Old Testament times. They were not the same.

The Midianites sacrificed babies to demonic gods. Imagine if Israel was next to Nazi Germany, Hitler screaming destruction to Israel. Should God allow Hitler to slaughter all the people of Israel, even the virgins and wipe it out, or should God enable Israel to rise up and wipe out Nazi Germany, taking its virgins as slaves because they would die otherwise?

God is the ultimate and final judge of the matter. We only see a tiny sliver whereas God sees the whole picture. I assure you, the way God did things back then, as now, is the 100% correct way for it to have been done.

Where did the hydrogen come from? That's your question? Why not just google that?

Hydrogen was primarily formed during the Big Bang nucleosynthesis process, a few minutes after the Big Bang, when the universe was still extremely hot and dense. As the universe cooled, protons and neutrons combined to form hydrogen nuclei. After 380,000 years, the universe cooled further, allowing electrons to bind to these nuclei, forming the first atoms of hydrogen and helium.

No god necessary

/ ps I don't think you are a sincere poster.

I am a sincere poster, not perfect by any means, but sincerely mean what I say.

No god necessary? Au contraire, dear atheist. For the Big Bang to have happened, an external force (God) would have had to create the matter for there to be any kind of reaction.

Bang! God caused it to happen.

The way I see it is like a pool table. The balls (matter) are racked up and God strikes the cue ball sending the balls scattering across the table.

That would explain how planets spin, for they cannot spin themselves without an outside force having first caused their rotation.

But it matters not, you will rationalize away the evidence to prove yourself “correct”: “There sho’nuff ain’t no god and hain’t never been one. I win!”

dp.. listen, I'm a Christian, but you aren't helping yourself.

There are scientific reasons why the earth spins. Ask any decent physicist. There are some things that humans cannot explain, and IMO, we will never be able to comprehend everything. But, 1000 years ago, people believed the earth was flat, but a scientist discovered that it wasn't. And of course, he was imprisoned for it.

Oh no. What is happening? This is untrue on so many levels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is it about this animal that makes it to the forbidden fruit list?
What was the reasoning back in the day?

People even now get sick every year eating shellfish and undercooked pork. People have died.

Back in biblical times, there were no microwaves to nuke the parasites and harmful bacteria in creatures which eat filth, feces, or feast on the dead. These animals God declared unclean to eat.

Similarly, God said not to wear mixed fabrics. Back in those days, there were no powerful detergents, no hot water rinse or steam cycles to destroy fleas and lice which hide and lay eggs in the gap between the two fabrics.

Note that there was no death sentence for eating unclean foods or wearing mixed fabrics but there was a death sentence for rape of a betrothed woman, homosexuality, and adultery.

And slavery! That was endorsed also! Don’t forget slavery!

And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.—Exodus 21:16

Those people who stole Africans to sell into slavery —mostly Arabs and other Africans, would have received the death penalty.

There is a big difference between becoming a slave out of economic necessity and being kidnapped.

Most people in biblical times were farmers and herdsmen. If your crops failed or were destroyed by war or drought, it was either become a slave or starve to death.

You should thank God every day for the blessed life you have.

Wrong! He likely does not exist and if he does he’s an immoral slavery endorsing douche. And since you agree that there are circumstances when it was OK, you are an immoral person! Yes, you! It is NEVER MORAL TO OWN A HUMAN BEING. Clear enough? But here’s your guy’s take on that:

Genesis 9:18-27 -- Noah (the only righteous man on earth) decrees that his son Ham and his descendants shall be slaves. (This is punishment for Ham's crime of seeing his father naked)

Genesis 12:5 -- Abram (God's anointed prophet) purchased slaves in Harran.

Genesis 16:1-9 -- Sarai's slave fled after being mistreated. God's angel instructs her to return and submit to her mistress anyway.

Genesis 17:12-13 -- All males must be circumcised, including those who were bought.

Genesis 20:14 -- Abraham (God's anointed prophet) happily accepts slaves as a gift.

Genesis 47:13-26 -- Joseph purchases the entire population of Egypt for the Pharaoh, making them his servants for life.

Exodus 12:43-45 -- God instructs Moses and Aaron that their slaves may only eat food at the passsover meal after they have been circumcised.

Legal Dispensation : the period of time from the giving of the law until the coming of Christ

Exodus 20:17 -- God provides a list of belongings which are not to be coveted, including servants (implying that they are property).

Exodus 21:2-6 -- Israeli slaves must be set free after 7 years unless you trick them into wanting to stay by giving them a wife.

Exodus 21:7-11 -- How your daughter must be treated after you sell her into slavery.

Exodus 21:20-21 -- You may beat your slaves as long as they do not die within a couple days of the beating.

Exodus 21:26-27 -- You have to let your slave go free if you destroy their eye or knock out one of their teeth.

Exodus 22:2-3 -- A theif must pay restituion. If unable, he himself is to be sold.

Leviticus 19:20-21 -- God tells Moses and Aaron what to do with a man who sleeps with another man's female slave.

Leviticus 22:10-11 -- A priest's hired servant may not eat the sacred offering, but his slaves can.

Leviticus 25:44-46 -- You may buy slaves from the nations around you and bequeath them to your children as inherited property (except if they're Israelites).

Numbers 31 -- After the Israelites conquer the Midianites, Moses orders the execution of everyone except the virgin girls (including the male children). God then instructs Moses on how the 32,000 virgins are to be divvied up and given to the Israelites as their property.

Deuteronomy 15:12-18 -- Free your Hebrew slaves every 6 years. Do not consider this a hardship because their service was worth twice as much as a hired hand.

Deuteronomy 20:10-11 -- When attacking a city, offer them the option of being your slaves rather than being slaughtered.

Joshua 9 -- Joshua "saves" the Gibeonites from being slain by the Israelites. Instead, he makes them slaves to the Israelites in perpetuity.

Gospel Dispensation : the period of time from the coming of Christ to the end of time

Luke 17:7-10 -- Jesus says servants (i.e. slaves) should know their place and not expect thanks for the duties they are required to perform.

Ephesians 6:5-8 -- Slaves are to obey their masters as they would obey Christ.

Colossians 3:22 -- Paul tells the slaves of Colosse to "obey your earthly masters."

Colossians 4:1 -- Paul says masters should be fair to their slaves. (Tacitly endorsing the existence of slaves and masters)

1 Timothy 6:1-2 -- Slaves should consider their masters worthy of full respect.

Titus 2:9-10 -- In his letter, Paul instructs Titus to teach slaves to be obedient.

1 Peter 2:18 -- Slaves, submit to your masters; even the harsh ones.

God does indeed exist. It is so obvious, only a fool cannot see it. Think: where did the hydrogen come from? What is the origin of hydrogen?

And there are circumstances where it is ok to take slaves/indentured servants but it is NOT ok—ever, to kidnap someone to be made a slave.

What you are missing here is free will: some people, due to economic necessity, sold themselves into slavery. The alternative was to become a prostitute, a thief (very dangerous), or become a slave for a period of time.

In ancient Israel, all Hebrew slaves had to be freed after 6 years. Every 50 years, called a Jubilee year, all slaves were freed. Daniel the Prophet is the one who influenced Cyrus the Great to free all the slaves in the land.

You may thank the Jews for being the very first emancipators. You’re welcome.

In ancient times, when a nation was conquered, its men killed in battle, the women and children were left helpless. They would die without a man to till the earth or manhandle livestock thus, when Israel conquered a nation, to prevent women and children dying needlessly, they were taken as slaves.

Are you saying slavery is so bad, these women and children should die instead?

What you keep doing, and if you were in the room, I would thump you upside your hard head to maybe jar loose whatever presupposed crud is hindering your thinking so that you stop comparing slavery in the Antebellum South to slavery in Old Testament times. They were not the same.

The Midianites sacrificed babies to demonic gods. Imagine if Israel was next to Nazi Germany, Hitler screaming destruction to Israel. Should God allow Hitler to slaughter all the people of Israel, even the virgins and wipe it out, or should God enable Israel to rise up and wipe out Nazi Germany, taking its virgins as slaves because they would die otherwise?

God is the ultimate and final judge of the matter. We only see a tiny sliver whereas God sees the whole picture. I assure you, the way God did things back then, as now, is the 100% correct way for it to have been done.

Where did the hydrogen come from? That's your question? Why not just google that?

Hydrogen was primarily formed during the Big Bang nucleosynthesis process, a few minutes after the Big Bang, when the universe was still extremely hot and dense. As the universe cooled, protons and neutrons combined to form hydrogen nuclei. After 380,000 years, the universe cooled further, allowing electrons to bind to these nuclei, forming the first atoms of hydrogen and helium.

No god necessary

/ ps I don't think you are a sincere poster.

I am a sincere poster, not perfect by any means, but sincerely mean what I say.

No god necessary? Au contraire, dear atheist. For the Big Bang to have happened, an external force (God) would have had to create the matter for there to be any kind of reaction.

Bang! God caused it to happen.

The way I see it is like a pool table. The balls (matter) are racked up and God strikes the cue ball sending the balls scattering across the table.

That would explain how planets spin, for they cannot spin themselves without an outside force having first caused their rotation.

But it matters not, you will rationalize away the evidence to prove yourself “correct”: “There sho’nuff ain’t no god and hain’t never been one. I win!”

dp.. listen, I'm a Christian, but you aren't helping yourself.

There are scientific reasons why the earth spins. Ask any decent physicist. There are some things that humans cannot explain, and IMO, we will never be able to comprehend everything. But, 1000 years ago, people believed the earth was flat, but a scientist discovered that it wasn't. And of course, he was imprisoned for it.

That's why I don't think it is a real poster. Hard to believe someone holds those kind of positions, although I know some do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is it about this animal that makes it to the forbidden fruit list?
What was the reasoning back in the day?

People even now get sick every year eating shellfish and undercooked pork. People have died.

Back in biblical times, there were no microwaves to nuke the parasites and harmful bacteria in creatures which eat filth, feces, or feast on the dead. These animals God declared unclean to eat.

Similarly, God said not to wear mixed fabrics. Back in those days, there were no powerful detergents, no hot water rinse or steam cycles to destroy fleas and lice which hide and lay eggs in the gap between the two fabrics.

Note that there was no death sentence for eating unclean foods or wearing mixed fabrics but there was a death sentence for rape of a betrothed woman, homosexuality, and adultery.

And slavery! That was endorsed also! Don’t forget slavery!

And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.—Exodus 21:16

Those people who stole Africans to sell into slavery —mostly Arabs and other Africans, would have received the death penalty.

There is a big difference between becoming a slave out of economic necessity and being kidnapped.

Most people in biblical times were farmers and herdsmen. If your crops failed or were destroyed by war or drought, it was either become a slave or starve to death.

You should thank God every day for the blessed life you have.

Wrong! He likely does not exist and if he does he’s an immoral slavery endorsing douche. And since you agree that there are circumstances when it was OK, you are an immoral person! Yes, you! It is NEVER MORAL TO OWN A HUMAN BEING. Clear enough? But here’s your guy’s take on that:

Genesis 9:18-27 -- Noah (the only righteous man on earth) decrees that his son Ham and his descendants shall be slaves. (This is punishment for Ham's crime of seeing his father naked)

Genesis 12:5 -- Abram (God's anointed prophet) purchased slaves in Harran.

Genesis 16:1-9 -- Sarai's slave fled after being mistreated. God's angel instructs her to return and submit to her mistress anyway.

Genesis 17:12-13 -- All males must be circumcised, including those who were bought.

Genesis 20:14 -- Abraham (God's anointed prophet) happily accepts slaves as a gift.

Genesis 47:13-26 -- Joseph purchases the entire population of Egypt for the Pharaoh, making them his servants for life.

Exodus 12:43-45 -- God instructs Moses and Aaron that their slaves may only eat food at the passsover meal after they have been circumcised.

Legal Dispensation : the period of time from the giving of the law until the coming of Christ

Exodus 20:17 -- God provides a list of belongings which are not to be coveted, including servants (implying that they are property).

Exodus 21:2-6 -- Israeli slaves must be set free after 7 years unless you trick them into wanting to stay by giving them a wife.

Exodus 21:7-11 -- How your daughter must be treated after you sell her into slavery.

Exodus 21:20-21 -- You may beat your slaves as long as they do not die within a couple days of the beating.

Exodus 21:26-27 -- You have to let your slave go free if you destroy their eye or knock out one of their teeth.

Exodus 22:2-3 -- A theif must pay restituion. If unable, he himself is to be sold.

Leviticus 19:20-21 -- God tells Moses and Aaron what to do with a man who sleeps with another man's female slave.

Leviticus 22:10-11 -- A priest's hired servant may not eat the sacred offering, but his slaves can.

Leviticus 25:44-46 -- You may buy slaves from the nations around you and bequeath them to your children as inherited property (except if they're Israelites).

Numbers 31 -- After the Israelites conquer the Midianites, Moses orders the execution of everyone except the virgin girls (including the male children). God then instructs Moses on how the 32,000 virgins are to be divvied up and given to the Israelites as their property.

Deuteronomy 15:12-18 -- Free your Hebrew slaves every 6 years. Do not consider this a hardship because their service was worth twice as much as a hired hand.

Deuteronomy 20:10-11 -- When attacking a city, offer them the option of being your slaves rather than being slaughtered.

Joshua 9 -- Joshua "saves" the Gibeonites from being slain by the Israelites. Instead, he makes them slaves to the Israelites in perpetuity.

Gospel Dispensation : the period of time from the coming of Christ to the end of time

Luke 17:7-10 -- Jesus says servants (i.e. slaves) should know their place and not expect thanks for the duties they are required to perform.

Ephesians 6:5-8 -- Slaves are to obey their masters as they would obey Christ.

Colossians 3:22 -- Paul tells the slaves of Colosse to "obey your earthly masters."

Colossians 4:1 -- Paul says masters should be fair to their slaves. (Tacitly endorsing the existence of slaves and masters)

1 Timothy 6:1-2 -- Slaves should consider their masters worthy of full respect.

Titus 2:9-10 -- In his letter, Paul instructs Titus to teach slaves to be obedient.

1 Peter 2:18 -- Slaves, submit to your masters; even the harsh ones.

God does indeed exist. It is so obvious, only a fool cannot see it. Think: where did the hydrogen come from? What is the origin of hydrogen?

And there are circumstances where it is ok to take slaves/indentured servants but it is NOT ok—ever, to kidnap someone to be made a slave.

What you are missing here is free will: some people, due to economic necessity, sold themselves into slavery. The alternative was to become a prostitute, a thief (very dangerous), or become a slave for a period of time.

In ancient Israel, all Hebrew slaves had to be freed after 6 years. Every 50 years, called a Jubilee year, all slaves were freed. Daniel the Prophet is the one who influenced Cyrus the Great to free all the slaves in the land.

You may thank the Jews for being the very first emancipators. You’re welcome.

In ancient times, when a nation was conquered, its men killed in battle, the women and children were left helpless. They would die without a man to till the earth or manhandle livestock thus, when Israel conquered a nation, to prevent women and children dying needlessly, they were taken as slaves.

Are you saying slavery is so bad, these women and children should die instead?

What you keep doing, and if you were in the room, I would thump you upside your hard head to maybe jar loose whatever presupposed crud is hindering your thinking so that you stop comparing slavery in the Antebellum South to slavery in Old Testament times. They were not the same.

The Midianites sacrificed babies to demonic gods. Imagine if Israel was next to Nazi Germany, Hitler screaming destruction to Israel. Should God allow Hitler to slaughter all the people of Israel, even the virgins and wipe it out, or should God enable Israel to rise up and wipe out Nazi Germany, taking its virgins as slaves because they would die otherwise?

God is the ultimate and final judge of the matter. We only see a tiny sliver whereas God sees the whole picture. I assure you, the way God did things back then, as now, is the 100% correct way for it to have been done.

Where did the hydrogen come from? That's your question? Why not just google that?

Hydrogen was primarily formed during the Big Bang nucleosynthesis process, a few minutes after the Big Bang, when the universe was still extremely hot and dense. As the universe cooled, protons and neutrons combined to form hydrogen nuclei. After 380,000 years, the universe cooled further, allowing electrons to bind to these nuclei, forming the first atoms of hydrogen and helium.

No god necessary

/ ps I don't think you are a sincere poster.

I am a sincere poster, not perfect by any means, but sincerely mean what I say.

No god necessary? Au contraire, dear atheist. For the Big Bang to have happened, an external force (God) would have had to create the matter for there to be any kind of reaction.

Bang! God caused it to happen.

The way I see it is like a pool table. The balls (matter) are racked up and God strikes the cue ball sending the balls scattering across the table.

That would explain how planets spin, for they cannot spin themselves without an outside force having first caused their rotation.

But it matters not, you will rationalize away the evidence to prove yourself “correct”: “There sho’nuff ain’t no god and hain’t never been one. I win!”

dp.. listen, I'm a Christian, but you aren't helping yourself.

There are scientific reasons why the earth spins. Ask any decent physicist. There are some things that humans cannot explain, and IMO, we will never be able to comprehend everything. But, 1000 years ago, people believed the earth was flat, but a scientist discovered that it wasn't. And of course, he was imprisoned for it.

Oh no. What is happening? This is untrue on so many levels.

You are correct, I would assume PP was intended to refer to geocentrism and Galileo.