Square the circle: how are acceptances harder to get than ever yet basic skills are at their lowest?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids from my DS’s (affluent) high school who are getting into T25 schools are so extraordinarily well-prepared it’s not even funny. Once there, they encounter students from other parts of the country who are on financial aid and ill-prepared.

Fixed it for you

We can quibble over word choice, but it answers the question. Colleges are choosing kids BECAUSE they come from disadvantaged backgrounds. So it should come as no surprise that there is a basic competence problem. A friend’s son at HYP is blown away by how incapable his DEIFGLI peers are. Truly struggling.

+1 These AOs prefer the poor or well connected over truly smart kids. We have seen the brilliant passed over for someone who checks an ethnic box. Sorry those kids struggle in college and finding jobs. It’s a joke who they are admitting for all the wrong reasons.

The text just above emphatically was NOT true for my E School classmate from a poor coal mining county in SW VA.

Entire high school qualified for free lunch. He got all As in the county's one high school. He did not have the chance to take any AP classes - none offered. He dis not have the chance to take any Calculus - not offered. No money for labs in Bio/Chem/Physics, so the school taught all 3 courses without any lab work. He did the best one could do with the very limited options available to him.

He worked hard from day 1, even though his starting point was academically way behind most other students. He got his engineering degree on time and got out.

He and those like him are why I think it entirely fair to handle economically poor students from poor cities/counties differently. This is quite different from an ethnic/racial bias in admissions.

Yeah, I think it's good for colleges to give a change to high-potential kids from under-resourced places. I wonder if the overall degradation of expectations, lack of books, etc. produces fewer of these students, and test-optional makes them harder to find.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think it’s fair to label all Ivy kids as ones who are “cramming academics”. I didn’t attend an Ivy but my friends who did had regular high school lives with low profile parents, sports, regular school clubs, some volunteer work, summer jobs, etc. Of course that was early 90’s but I’m sure even today, there are plenty of kids like that at the Ivies.

The kids in our neighborhood that got into them are pretty much like everyone else--smart, work, do something outside of school---sports, etc. The 3 near us are not legacy, etc. They won the lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cell phone addiction means that 98% of people have the attention span of a gnat and the writing skillz that allow them to construct sentences like this: "bruh - hmu when u hav a sec. Ima hit da gym"

For the record, I don't know what a gnat's attention span is, but I believe it's not great.

A gnat has an attention span of approximately 4 seconds.

This is one reason gnats have trouble with monogamy. Another reason is they are GNATS.

They also apparently have trouble with spelling.

[Anonymous]

Private high school: no phones allowed in schools, no study guides provided, no retakes, no dropped scores, no grade inflation, no weighted grades, no “selection from” (full books assigned), several assigned papers a year and 8-10 pages each. Average gpa is 3.7. Average SAT is over 1500.

This is why colleges still like feeders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cell phone addiction means that 98% of people have the attention span of a gnat and the writing skillz that allow them to construct sentences like this: "bruh - hmu when u hav a sec. Ima hit da gym"

For the record, I don't know what a gnat's attention span is, but I believe it's not great.

A gnat has an attention span of approximately 4 seconds.

This is one reason gnats have trouble with monogamy. Another reason is they are GNATS.

They also apparently have trouble with spelling.

They are good at math though. They multiply like crazy. .

[Anonymous]

I know it’s unpopular but I would also say APs. They are not college level classes and students miss the concept of critical thought as they cram for tests. Students skip many foundational credits because they use AP credits. I get it, you feel your kid cannot be challenged otherwise, it saves money, etc. I just think they are doing our kids a disservice. They can have non AP branded classes that are just if not more rigorous by de-emphasizing the test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:grade inflation
test optional
vague, subjective scoring of essays and ECs
holistic admission
yield algorithms

Cheating. Fake stuff on applications.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Private high school: no phones allowed in schools, no study guides provided, no retakes, no dropped scores, no grade inflation, no weighted grades, no “selection from” (full books assigned), several assigned papers a year and 8-10 pages each. Average gpa is 3.7. Average SAT is over 1500.

This is why colleges still like feeders.

IMHO they don't go to them enough. It really seems that colleges are looking at GPAs as if they mean the same thing everywhere. Huge mistake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:During my freshman year at Cornell in 1991, I had two professors state that the quality of students currently attending was mediocre. We were apathetic generation that had not interest in learning. Are we doing the same thing here?

The one issue I have seen with my child's cohort is that some are too reliant on their parents. There is a lack of independence as parents seem to intervene at a drop of a hat. We tried to avoid intervening unless absolutely necessary. Our child had to fight most of her own battles. I think she is stronger for it but whether it benefits her academically in college is unknown.

I graduated in 1992. We did not have smart phones or the internet back then. We had to remember everyone's phone numbers. We read for pleasure. There was not rampant grade inflation. Parents weren't ruling the teachers and coaches and snowplowing everything for their kids.

IT is possible to raise kids like this---BUT it takes so much work. Fighting against the system. Our kids were pissed to get iphones later than everyone else. We limited screen time. No phones or laptops in bedrooms overnight--plugged in downstairs. Constantly battling phone time--tracking usage. WE DID NOT HAVE PHONES IN SCHOOLS--huge distraction.

We are in the minority that our kids were self-reliant very young. They didn't need us constantly monitoring Canvas or emailing teachers, etc. By the time they entered middle school--they were 100% self-reliant for school work and I never had to check. They brought home As. They didn't have missing assignments.

With sports--there is the same political culture. We never talked to coaches or complained and taught our kids to self-advocate. Did they get screwed over time and time again by the 'kiss-@sses'--sure. Cuts hurt. They learned resilience and grit and by Senior year of HS the parent favor stopped working and actual talent had to take over. Because of all of that heartache and us not sweeping in they have toughness and grit.

Things are very different nowadays. You can't compare it to pre-iPhone/internet/litigious society/latch-key generations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know it’s unpopular but I would also say APs. They are not college level classes and students miss the concept of critical thought as they cram for tests. Students skip many foundational credits because they use AP credits. I get it, you feel your kid cannot be challenged otherwise, it saves money, etc. I just think they are doing our kids a disservice. They can have non AP branded classes that are just if not more rigorous by de-emphasizing the test.

Not all schools teach AP classes the same way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cell phone addiction means that 98% of people have the attention span of a gnat and the writing skillz that allow them to construct sentences like this: "bruh - hmu when u hav a sec. Ima hit da gym"

For the record, I don't know what a gnat's attention span is, but I believe it's not great.

A gnat has an attention span of approximately 4 seconds.

I wonder how many of our tax dollars went into the study that discovered this nugget.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:During my freshman year at Cornell in 1991, I had two professors state that the quality of students currently attending was mediocre. We were apathetic generation that had not interest in learning. Are we doing the same thing here?

The one issue I have seen with my child's cohort is that some are too reliant on their parents. There is a lack of independence as parents seem to intervene at a drop of a hat. We tried to avoid intervening unless absolutely necessary. Our child had to fight most of her own battles. I think she is stronger for it but whether it benefits her academically in college is unknown.

I graduated in 1992. We did not have smart phones or the internet back then. We had to remember everyone's phone numbers. We read for pleasure. There was not rampant grade inflation. Parents weren't ruling the teachers and coaches and snowplowing everything for their kids.

IT is possible to raise kids like this---BUT it takes so much work. Fighting against the system. Our kids were pissed to get iphones later than everyone else. We limited screen time. No phones or laptops in bedrooms overnight--plugged in downstairs. Constantly battling phone time--tracking usage. WE DID NOT HAVE PHONES IN SCHOOLS--huge distraction.

We are in the minority that our kids were self-reliant very young. They didn't need us constantly monitoring Canvas or emailing teachers, etc. By the time they entered middle school--they were 100% self-reliant for school work and I never had to check. They brought home As. They didn't have missing assignments.

With sports--there is the same political culture. We never talked to coaches or complained and taught our kids to self-advocate. Did they get screwed over time and time again by the 'kiss-@sses'--sure. Cuts hurt. They learned resilience and grit and by Senior year of HS the parent favor stopped working and actual talent had to take over. Because of all of that heartache and us not sweeping in they have toughness and grit.

Things are very different nowadays. You can't compare it to pre-iPhone/internet/litigious society/latch-key generations.

^^ graduated college in 1992

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know it’s unpopular but I would also say APs. They are not college level classes and students miss the concept of critical thought as they cram for tests. Students skip many foundational credits because they use AP credits. I get it, you feel your kid cannot be challenged otherwise, it saves money, etc. I just think they are doing our kids a disservice. They can have non AP branded classes that are just if not more rigorous by de-emphasizing the test.

This is why most of the elite schools do not accept most AP credits. You might get to get out of an intro or such but you need to take the college courses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids from my DS’s (affluent) high school who are getting into T25 schools are so extraordinarily well-prepared it’s not even funny. Once there, they encounter students from other parts of the country who are on financial aid and ill-prepared.

Fixed it for you

We can quibble over word choice, but it answers the question. Colleges are choosing kids BECAUSE they come from disadvantaged backgrounds. So it should come as no surprise that there is a basic competence problem. A friend’s son at HYP is blown away by how incapable his DEIFGLI peers are. Truly struggling.

+1 These AOs prefer the poor or well connected over truly smart kids. We have seen the brilliant passed over for someone who checks an ethnic box. Sorry those kids struggle in college and finding jobs. It’s a joke who they are admitting for all the wrong reasons.

Honey first gen and 'the box' was happy at in-state schools too. Don't fool yourself

[Anonymous]

Every fall, there's a professor on Twitter who posts op-eds/articles written by professors complaining about how unprepared students are. The articles have been written every year for over 100 years. People swear that this year is the worst year ever. Until next year.