Square the circle: how are acceptances harder to get than ever yet basic skills are at their lowest?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok can someone please square the circle

Schools are harder to get into than ever before yet we are hearing from faculty that there is a crisis of basic competence in the student body.

What is going on?

You're annoying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:grade inflation
test optional
vague, subjective scoring of essays and ECs
holistic admission
yield algorithms

This in a nutshell.

[Anonymous]

Someone beat me to it: rampant cheating your way to the top, and pricey admissions counseling and test prep obscuring innate ability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok can someone please square the circle

Schools are harder to get into than ever before yet we are hearing from faculty that there is a crisis of basic competence in the student body.

What is going on?

IT's simple---those applying to T25 schools are not the same ones who are "in a crisis of basic competence"

A kid can get into Harvard, despite the fact 40% of their HS class will not graduate/barely graduate and 60% won't even go to college. One has nothing to do with the other

No, I mean specifically faculty at t20s who say that there is a crisis of competence with their undergrads these days

Not the general unwashed population

Because when it is lower across the board, both can be true.

DEI and FGLI, obviously

[Anonymous]

My public FCPS HS kid is not T20 material. Or prob even T50. She’s also not dumb and illiterate. She actually does have to study to get As in all of her honors classes, has read entire books, frequently has to write essays, etc. There is a continuum of preparedness. It’s not just genius/a boatload of APs/super stars vs totally unprepared. A couple of points. First, from reading the professors subreddit, the biggest difference/challenge seems to be apathy/poor coping skills/lack of initiative. And I suppose that can transcend different tiers of schools. Second, I think the number of unprepared students in college has def. increased due to lowering standards and push for everyone to go to college. BUT-I think there always has been a huge gap on the level of preparedness in college based on HS attended. I remember being a TA in undergrad and being floored by the quality of writing submitted by students. This was a senior level class that counted towards a Gen Ed graduation requirement. It was BAD.

[Anonymous]

Many high school students, including those at “top” schools, are cheating their way through. Many use AI tools to summarize readings and even write their essays.

[Anonymous]

The kids from my DS’s (affluent) high school who are getting into T25 schools are so extraordinarily talented it’s not even funny. Once there, they encounter students from other parts of the country who are on financial aid and ill-prepared.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Holistic admissions is the problem. Admit high stat test takers only and you won’t need remedial classes in T20 schools.

I disagree. First, test taking ability is not the only indicator of success and second, how do you distinguish between all of the 1580-1600s?

Yeah, if it was only a problem of test optional, holistic admissions, etc. then you would be hearing from professors a tier down about how superior the kids are. But there seem to be complaints there too.

Some of it is maturity, educational model, lack of reading, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok can someone please square the circle

Schools are harder to get into than ever before yet we are hearing from faculty that there is a crisis of basic competence in the student body.

What is going on?

IT's simple---those applying to T25 schools are not the same ones who are "in a crisis of basic competence"

A kid can get into Harvard, despite the fact 40% of their HS class will not graduate/barely graduate and 60% won't even go to college. One has nothing to do with the other

Spot on !

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fewer kids regularly read or write for pleasure, and I'd imagine that explains some of it. Independent reading lends itself to a greater range of general knowledge, better critical thinking skills, a larger vocabulary, and better language and communication skills.

+100

I have a college Freshmen at an Ivy and he reads all of the time—always has. Recently we were in a waiting room together and adults kept commenting they were so impressed he was reading an actual book while waiting. He reads a lot of non-fiction, history, Russian lit, and he had to read a ton of novels in HS. I 100% think that’s why he scored so high on standardized tests and is excelling in courses- already won an award this year w/ $ attached. When he was home over break- he was reading —my dad was a voracious reading and when he passed away he took a lot of his books.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Big population of private school, parochial school, International students and some top feeder publics at the Ivies/T10/15/20s.

^ they aren’t the ones in remedial anything. My kid was more than prepared

I beg to differ. Those kids have great help/counselors how to prepare and present their package. Some of it is indeed empty once opened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Someone beat me to it: rampant cheating your way to the top, and pricey admissions counseling and test prep obscuring innate ability.

Spot on

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fewer kids regularly read or write for pleasure, and I'd imagine that explains some of it. Independent reading lends itself to a greater range of general knowledge, better critical thinking skills, a larger vocabulary, and better language and communication skills.

+100

I have a college Freshmen at an Ivy and he reads all of the time—always has. Recently we were in a waiting room together and adults kept commenting they were so impressed he was reading an actual book while waiting. He reads a lot of non-fiction, history, Russian lit, and he had to read a ton of novels in HS. I 100% think that’s why he scored so high on standardized tests and is excelling in courses- already won an award this year w/ $ attached. When he was home over break- he was reading —my dad was a voracious reading and when he passed away he took a lot of his books.

I totally agree and will contrast with my DD. She is dyslexic and the school denied there was a problem so she was remediated late. She lost all of those vocabulary words kids learn and all of that reading experience in the few years we fought the school. She still does not read for pleasure (although sometimes listens to audio books) because it is so taxing. She is very bright, but her weak reading skills hinder her and diminish her potential. Reading is so important!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fewer kids regularly read or write for pleasure, and I'd imagine that explains some of it. Independent reading lends itself to a greater range of general knowledge, better critical thinking skills, a larger vocabulary, and better language and communication skills.

+100

I have a college Freshmen at an Ivy and he reads all of the time—always has. Recently we were in a waiting room together and adults kept commenting they were so impressed he was reading an actual book while waiting. He reads a lot of non-fiction, history, Russian lit, and he had to read a ton of novels in HS. I 100% think that’s why he scored so high on standardized tests and is excelling in courses- already won an award this year w/ $ attached. When he was home over break- he was reading —my dad was a voracious reading and when he passed away he took a lot of his books.

^ same. My kid was at a Catholic HS and very well prepared for T-10. He is crushing it this first year. Highest grade in 2 courses and his first college paper had glowing reviews (he screenshotted the comments- very strong paper! Excellent!). He wouldn’t even use grammerly or chatgpt just to check grammar in college essays—very paranoid and too honest. He learned to write well in HS and they had to do the bulk of in class so no AI, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Holistic admissions is the problem. Admit high stat test takers only and you won’t need remedial classes in T20 schools.

I disagree. First, test taking ability is not the only indicator of success and second, how do you distinguish between all of the 1580-1600s?

Less than 10k test takers every year score a non-superscored 1560+… Less than 1k score 1600. Not too many to sort through.