Square the circle: how are acceptances harder to get than ever yet basic skills are at their lowest?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Something is definitely wrong - Harvard introduced "remedial math" courses to address the lack of foundational algebra skills in their students due to what they say was the "loss of learning during Covid"

I think grade inflation is to blame.

I think acceleration too early is to blame. The remedial math is being given to kids who took post-calc in high school too. You can train a dog to do tricks, but that doesn't mean it understands why it is doing the tricks. Their brains are too undeveloped for the math they are doing in middle school. Some private high schools catch this with difficult math placement tests for freshman and often make "accelerated" kids repeat and learn better and slower in high school. They still get through calculus. But a lot of kids are plowing through math in public middle and high school, taking on line classes alone, taking a years worth of math in one summer, etc., and they arrive at college with impressive transcripts and shallow knowledge, often having completely skipped over relatively basic math skill sets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok can someone please square the circle

Schools are harder to get into than ever before yet we are hearing from faculty that there is a crisis of basic competence in the student body.

What is going on?

They are deliberately trying to avoid selecting for merit because of the disparity that result from merit based admissions.

That is exactly what they did 100 years ago because Jewish applicants were scoring too high and taking spots from WASPs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:More people submitting more apps

It's really this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Something is definitely wrong - Harvard introduced "remedial math" courses to address the lack of foundational algebra skills in their students due to what they say was the "loss of learning during Covid"

I think grade inflation is to blame.

I think acceleration too early is to blame. The remedial math is being given to kids who took post-calc in high school too. You can train a dog to do tricks, but that doesn't mean it understands why it is doing the tricks. Their brains are too undeveloped for the math they are doing in middle school. Some private high schools catch this with difficult math placement tests for freshman and often make "accelerated" kids repeat and learn better and slower in high school. They still get through calculus. But a lot of kids are plowing through math in public middle and high school, taking on line classes alone, taking a years worth of math in one summer, etc., and they arrive at college with impressive transcripts and shallow knowledge, often having completely skipped over relatively basic math skill sets.

Agree and also stuff like APs starting in freshman year. They are not learning basics in HS. For example in my day we did 2 yrs of a science, first yr was honors and the 2nd was AP. So we actually had a foundation for college. No one taking an AP in freshman yr of HS is really grasping anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Something is definitely wrong - Harvard introduced "remedial math" courses to address the lack of foundational algebra skills in their students due to what they say was the "loss of learning during Covid"

I think grade inflation is to blame.

I think acceleration too early is to blame. The remedial math is being given to kids who took post-calc in high school too. You can train a dog to do tricks, but that doesn't mean it understands why it is doing the tricks. Their brains are too undeveloped for the math they are doing in middle school. Some private high schools catch this with difficult math placement tests for freshman and often make "accelerated" kids repeat and learn better and slower in high school. They still get through calculus. But a lot of kids are plowing through math in public middle and high school, taking on line classes alone, taking a years worth of math in one summer, etc., and they arrive at college with impressive transcripts and shallow knowledge, often having completely skipped over relatively basic math skill sets.

Agree and also stuff like APs starting in freshman year. They are not learning basics in HS. For example in my day we did 2 yrs of a science, first yr was honors and the 2nd was AP. So we actually had a foundation for college. No one taking an AP in freshman yr of HS is really grasping anything.

If they get a 5 on the exam, why wouldn't they have learned the same as someone who took it junior or senior year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Something is definitely wrong - Harvard introduced "remedial math" courses to address the lack of foundational algebra skills in their students due to what they say was the "loss of learning during Covid"

I think grade inflation is to blame.

I think acceleration too early is to blame. The remedial math is being given to kids who took post-calc in high school too. You can train a dog to do tricks, but that doesn't mean it understands why it is doing the tricks. Their brains are too undeveloped for the math they are doing in middle school. Some private high schools catch this with difficult math placement tests for freshman and often make "accelerated" kids repeat and learn better and slower in high school. They still get through calculus. But a lot of kids are plowing through math in public middle and high school, taking on line classes alone, taking a years worth of math in one summer, etc., and they arrive at college with impressive transcripts and shallow knowledge, often having completely skipped over relatively basic math skill sets.

You are not asking WHY. WHY are these kids feeling the need to accelerate? I assure you, they are not doing it because they have nothing better to do and enjoy doing math in the summer ....

They are doing because the colleges admissions arms race. This problem could be nipped in the bud if colleges announced they would ignore any math classes taken beyond AP Calc and would not give benefit to AP calc taken prior to junior year.

[Anonymous]

Please find me a time when faculty have not said there is a crisis of basic skills. I've been hearing that every single year for at least the past 40 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Something is definitely wrong - Harvard introduced "remedial math" courses to address the lack of foundational algebra skills in their students due to what they say was the "loss of learning during Covid"

I think grade inflation is to blame.

I think acceleration too early is to blame. The remedial math is being given to kids who took post-calc in high school too. You can train a dog to do tricks, but that doesn't mean it understands why it is doing the tricks. Their brains are too undeveloped for the math they are doing in middle school. Some private high schools catch this with difficult math placement tests for freshman and often make "accelerated" kids repeat and learn better and slower in high school. They still get through calculus. But a lot of kids are plowing through math in public middle and high school, taking on line classes alone, taking a years worth of math in one summer, etc., and they arrive at college with impressive transcripts and shallow knowledge, often having completely skipped over relatively basic math skill sets.

Agree with this. I have a junior in AP Calculus AB right now. She’s never gotten anything lower than an A in a math class. She gets it enough to do well on the unit at hand. But if you ask her to calculate a tip in her head, or something basic and everyday like that, she’s confused. The foundational math in elementary and early middle school was sorely lacking and they just started sending them all down the accelerated path in seventh grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Something is definitely wrong - Harvard introduced "remedial math" courses to address the lack of foundational algebra skills in their students due to what they say was the "loss of learning during Covid"

I think grade inflation is to blame.

I think acceleration too early is to blame. The remedial math is being given to kids who took post-calc in high school too. You can train a dog to do tricks, but that doesn't mean it understands why it is doing the tricks. Their brains are too undeveloped for the math they are doing in middle school. Some private high schools catch this with difficult math placement tests for freshman and often make "accelerated" kids repeat and learn better and slower in high school. They still get through calculus. But a lot of kids are plowing through math in public middle and high school, taking on line classes alone, taking a years worth of math in one summer, etc., and they arrive at college with impressive transcripts and shallow knowledge, often having completely skipped over relatively basic math skill sets.

Agree and also stuff like APs starting in freshman year. They are not learning basics in HS. For example in my day we did 2 yrs of a science, first yr was honors and the 2nd was AP. So we actually had a foundation for college. No one taking an AP in freshman yr of HS is really grasping anything.

If they get a 5 on the exam, why wouldn't they have learned the same as someone who took it junior or senior year?

This. Kids who earn a 5 on AP Calc BC are not the ones being placed in remedial algebra. It would be quite difficult for a kid to demonstrate that level of proficiency with calculus while missing basic math skills or not really grasping anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fewer kids regularly read or write for pleasure, and I'd imagine that explains some of it. Independent reading lends itself to a greater range of general knowledge, better critical thinking skills, a larger vocabulary, and better language and communication skills.

Kids are so much busier than we were 40 years ago. I did model UN in HS—we did one competition which was in our hometown. My daughter did it and did about 3-4 commotions a year. In my age most of the smart kids did not play sports. The ones that did mostly had one sport season that was a couple months a year. Now lots of kids play sports year round. Sometimes multiple sports. I did a small amount of volunteering Aa maybe a day or two a year. My kid did regular volunteer work —- hours per week. She’s smart and all but I feel like with all the stuff she was doing, she just didn’t have time to read and write the way I did. And teachers certainly don’t have time to read essays.

Overscheduling is an issue, for sure. My kids have so little down time, and there's so much pressure to fill in the blank spaces with "meaningful" activities and resume fillers. There's value in having time to just do your thing . . . read, listen, reflect, be creative, be introspective. Sometimes I need a long walk so I can gather my thoughts, make connections, observe, or just think about things and let my mind wander where it will. It's an important part of the learning process, and I fear kids are missing out on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Something is definitely wrong - Harvard introduced "remedial math" courses to address the lack of foundational algebra skills in their students due to what they say was the "loss of learning during Covid"

I think grade inflation is to blame.

I think acceleration too early is to blame. The remedial math is being given to kids who took post-calc in high school too. You can train a dog to do tricks, but that doesn't mean it understands why it is doing the tricks. Their brains are too undeveloped for the math they are doing in middle school. Some private high schools catch this with difficult math placement tests for freshman and often make "accelerated" kids repeat and learn better and slower in high school. They still get through calculus. But a lot of kids are plowing through math in public middle and high school, taking on line classes alone, taking a years worth of math in one summer, etc., and they arrive at college with impressive transcripts and shallow knowledge, often having completely skipped over relatively basic math skill sets.

Agree with this. I have a junior in AP Calculus AB right now. She’s never gotten anything lower than an A in a math class. She gets it enough to do well on the unit at hand. But if you ask her to calculate a tip in her head, or something basic and everyday like that, she’s confused. The foundational math in elementary and early middle school was sorely lacking and they just started sending them all down the accelerated path in seventh grade.

This. The math in K-5 is laughably slow, even for kids put in advanced or gifted classes. The parents don't want the homework it takes to learn.

[Anonymous]

Because parents and businesses have over optimized the process. The SATs use to be a test of what you actually learned and retained. Now folks take prep classes and review 6weeks-months before the exam then quickly forget everything. EC’s use to show actual interest, commitment and drive. Now they are just checkboxes. Teachers use to have time to give feedback and nitpick on little things. Now they’re lucky if they can get the grading gone in a reasonable time given class size and other commitments.

Kids are being pushed to take on more and more, but they aren’t really being challenged to think critically or move outside the comfort zone of what seems like the college checklist. And frankly on some level it’s not their fault. We as an American society have focused on money and productivity at all cost. Now we can see the cost.

[Anonymous]

High standards are only for Asian students from certain countries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because parents and businesses have over optimized the process. The SATs use to be a test of what you actually learned and retained. Now folks take prep classes and review 6weeks-months before the exam then quickly forget everything.

Colleges can stop that simply by saying they will ignore SAT scores in excess of, say, 1500. They will ignore AP exams beyond one history exam, one science, one math , one CS, and one "other." They will ignore classes taken beyond AP or college freshman equivalents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Something is definitely wrong - Harvard introduced "remedial math" courses to address the lack of foundational algebra skills in their students due to what they say was the "loss of learning during Covid"

I think grade inflation is to blame.

I think acceleration too early is to blame. The remedial math is being given to kids who took post-calc in high school too. You can train a dog to do tricks, but that doesn't mean it understands why it is doing the tricks. Their brains are too undeveloped for the math they are doing in middle school. Some private high schools catch this with difficult math placement tests for freshman and often make "accelerated" kids repeat and learn better and slower in high school. They still get through calculus. But a lot of kids are plowing through math in public middle and high school, taking on line classes alone, taking a years worth of math in one summer, etc., and they arrive at college with impressive transcripts and shallow knowledge, often having completely skipped over relatively basic math skill sets.

Agree with this. I have a junior in AP Calculus AB right now. She’s never gotten anything lower than an A in a math class. She gets it enough to do well on the unit at hand. But if you ask her to calculate a tip in her head, or something basic and everyday like that, she’s confused. The foundational math in elementary and early middle school was sorely lacking and they just started sending them all down the accelerated path in seventh grade.

This. The math in K-5 is laughably slow, even for kids put in advanced or gifted classes. The parents don't want the homework it takes to learn.

I agree with this. I recognized that elementary school math was inadequate and put my kids in AoPS academy classes. There's a huge gap in understanding between the 7th grade Algebra kids who took rigorous extracurricular math classes and the ones who relied on regular school math.