Serious question for MAGA - how do you not see the rise of authoritarian oligarchy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you believe this isn’t possible? Or do you just not care because you are fooled into believing it will some how benefit you?

I’m not MAGA. I was one of the Democrats on here begging Democrats to look up (of course nobody did) and who knew Trump would beat Biden, let alone Harris. I think I’m one of the few Democrats posting here that regularly listens to Rogan, Kirk, etc. I’m a Democrat because I am pro-labor, pro-working class (people the Democrats used to care about), but feel alienated from this current identity-focused iteration of the party. Of course I voted for Harris because Trump is a traitor, but I have no love for the current Democrats.

Here is what you don’t understand. The deep red MAGA believe we were in an authoritarian oligarchy under the Democrats. They believe that Democrats used the pandemic to destroy small businesses with their closure and shut-down orders, and to consolidate power into the hands of powerful Democrat donors. They do not believe they receive any benefit whatsoever from government agencies, mostly seeing them as arms of the oligarchy that destroyed small businesses and the education of their children during the pandemic. And these feelings run long and deep: most of them view the pandemic business and school closures as targeted extensions of what Democrats did with NAFTA.

They also view the DEI and identity-focus of current Democrats as explicitly anti-working class. The language of DEI is inexplicable and a clear class marker — no one who isn’t part of the wealthy oligarch class uses incomprehensible terms like “lived experience” in daily conversation — and they feel that it is used by the oligarchs in charge to weaken and isolate them.

So, from the point of view of MAGA, there isn’t a change. That’s what all the hyperventilating out-of-touch posters in DCUM do not understand: the MAGA think we’re already in an authoritarian oligarchy. So, if we are already in one, it might as well be run by someone who doesn’t convey how much he hates them like the Democrats do.

The GOP did their propaganda well. They are very good at accusing the "other side" of what they want to do, selling it hard, and then coming in and doing it themselves.

MAGA can "believe" this all day long, but it is based on lies and it is destroying the country.

So almighty Dem who sees all--what do we do? How do Dems make the truth sexy enough for MAGA to bite? We know they don't operate based on reason and facts. It's all emotion. How do we dismantle the hatred based on lies. They are standing by while our country, our hard won democracy, is destroyed and watching like zombies as we become an autocratic nation ruled by a demented felon and his oligarch friends.

I don't want to live in Russia, Argentina or Hungary.

What do we do?

With the bolded, you show you still don’t get it, and as far as I am concerned, don’t actually want to fight for American democracy. And for the record, I agree that Trump is a major, major threat to American democracy. I think he wants to be Putin, which is terrifying.

But it is not a lie that Democratic pandemic policies destroyed working class businesses. It is not a lie that working class children were most harmed by school closures actively supported by Democrats. You cannot — if you actually want to save this country — refuse to acknowledge that Democrats have caused serious harm to the working classes with their policies. And you have to recognize that many of their favorite planks (identity, student loan forgiveness, etc) come across as extremely elitist.

So what do we do? Well, most Democrats won’t like it, because it’s going to require humility and admitting profound errors. I don’t actually think the party in its current form can manage it. But, the only way to fight back against any oligarchy is with strong labor and working class. That means abandoning fringe identity issues and focusing on true bread and butter labor issues. For instance, for God’s sake stop having trans musicians that mock Christianity open for Bernie Sanders. Instead go to the churches, embrace the religious. Make the tent bigger. Push out anyone who divides, and hammer home the basics: economic security, fair wages, strong working and middle class, good education. Walk away from useless identity politics. Example: men in women’s sports is something most of the country thinks is outright evil and unfair, and just another sign of how the Democrats are elitist oligarchs themselves.

And yes, that means the laptop classes will have to get their feelings hurt. They will have to admit their policies are wildly unpopular. They will have to admit that they’ve abandoned the working classes, and that their focus on things like DEI was done to preserve their role at the top of the Democratic oligarchy ladder.

I don’t think the party can do it. But the answer to an oligarchy is always strong labor and working classes. That’s it. Anything else is just window dressing.

Maybe the DNC can back to open primaries and not coronating candidates like Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris.

Aren't you bothered by the constant use of the term democracy, when democrats are anything but?

Are you actually insinuating that the GOP, with Trump and Musk threatening to primary anyone who disagrees with them or be an independent voice for their constituents are behaving like politicians in a democracy? FFS, sit down.

A better response would be yes, the DNC shenanigans in recent elections bothers me tremendously and I realize that if the people were allowed to nominate a Dem POTUS candidate in 2016, 2020, & 2024 as opposed to the mega-donors nominating the candidate, we would have never lost to someone as weak and awful as Trump.

Being honest with ourselves and not ignoring the obvious will serve us better in the future than denial will.

I agree we should have had better choices. I do not agree that it would have necessarily prevented Trump from getting elected. C'mon, man. There is a significant portion of our population who believe Trump can govern. That is scary and wouldn't have changed based on the Dem candidate. The GOP are good at lying and propaganda. They've been beating Dems at the game for years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Biden was too old but had a good administration and team Around him.

The idea that Stephen Miller, Elon Musk and Project 2025 is terrifying.

They’re using Trump as their puppet.
Does he even read what he’s singing?

Pretty sure he does not read what he is signing. Do you believe otherwise?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you believe this isn’t possible? Or do you just not care because you are fooled into believing it will some how benefit you?

I’m not MAGA. I was one of the Democrats on here begging Democrats to look up (of course nobody did) and who knew Trump would beat Biden, let alone Harris. I think I’m one of the few Democrats posting here that regularly listens to Rogan, Kirk, etc. I’m a Democrat because I am pro-labor, pro-working class (people the Democrats used to care about), but feel alienated from this current identity-focused iteration of the party. Of course I voted for Harris because Trump is a traitor, but I have no love for the current Democrats.

Here is what you don’t understand. The deep red MAGA believe we were in an authoritarian oligarchy under the Democrats. They believe that Democrats used the pandemic to destroy small businesses with their closure and shut-down orders, and to consolidate power into the hands of powerful Democrat donors. They do not believe they receive any benefit whatsoever from government agencies, mostly seeing them as arms of the oligarchy that destroyed small businesses and the education of their children during the pandemic. And these feelings run long and deep: most of them view the pandemic business and school closures as targeted extensions of what Democrats did with NAFTA.

They also view the DEI and identity-focus of current Democrats as explicitly anti-working class. The language of DEI is inexplicable and a clear class marker — no one who isn’t part of the wealthy oligarch class uses incomprehensible terms like “lived experience” in daily conversation — and they feel that it is used by the oligarchs in charge to weaken and isolate them.

So, from the point of view of MAGA, there isn’t a change. That’s what all the hyperventilating out-of-touch posters in DCUM do not understand: the MAGA think we’re already in an authoritarian oligarchy. So, if we are already in one, it might as well be run by someone who doesn’t convey how much he hates them like the Democrats do.

The GOP did their propaganda well. They are very good at accusing the "other side" of what they want to do, selling it hard, and then coming in and doing it themselves.

MAGA can "believe" this all day long, but it is based on lies and it is destroying the country.

So almighty Dem who sees all--what do we do? How do Dems make the truth sexy enough for MAGA to bite? We know they don't operate based on reason and facts. It's all emotion. How do we dismantle the hatred based on lies. They are standing by while our country, our hard won democracy, is destroyed and watching like zombies as we become an autocratic nation ruled by a demented felon and his oligarch friends.

I don't want to live in Russia, Argentina or Hungary.

What do we do?

With the bolded, you show you still don’t get it, and as far as I am concerned, don’t actually want to fight for American democracy. And for the record, I agree that Trump is a major, major threat to American democracy. I think he wants to be Putin, which is terrifying.

But it is not a lie that Democratic pandemic policies destroyed working class businesses. It is not a lie that working class children were most harmed by school closures actively supported by Democrats. You cannot — if you actually want to save this country — refuse to acknowledge that Democrats have caused serious harm to the working classes with their policies. And you have to recognize that many of their favorite planks (identity, student loan forgiveness, etc) come across as extremely elitist.

So what do we do? Well, most Democrats won’t like it, because it’s going to require humility and admitting profound errors. I don’t actually think the party in its current form can manage it. But, the only way to fight back against any oligarchy is with strong labor and working class. That means abandoning fringe identity issues and focusing on true bread and butter labor issues. For instance, for God’s sake stop having trans musicians that mock Christianity open for Bernie Sanders. Instead go to the churches, embrace the religious. Make the tent bigger. Push out anyone who divides, and hammer home the basics: economic security, fair wages, strong working and middle class, good education. Walk away from useless identity politics. Example: men in women’s sports is something most of the country thinks is outright evil and unfair, and just another sign of how the Democrats are elitist oligarchs themselves.

And yes, that means the laptop classes will have to get their feelings hurt. They will have to admit their policies are wildly unpopular. They will have to admit that they’ve abandoned the working classes, and that their focus on things like DEI was done to preserve their role at the top of the Democratic oligarchy ladder.

I don’t think the party can do it. But the answer to an oligarchy is always strong labor and working classes. That’s it. Anything else is just window dressing.

Man, you are a smug piece of work. Not serious about democracy? You aren't in reality, man. Humility on the part of Dems will get them abso-F-in-lutely nowhere now. We live in a world where the GOP take something like a heartfelt apology, twist it, and use it to plunge the knife as deep as they can. They play zero-sum, winner-take-all politics and they play as dirty as it gets. No lie is too dirty. No tactic is too dirty. Everything is us vs. them now. Compromise is weakness. MAGA are in tin foil hat territory.

BOTH parties have done things to hurt the working class. But who will REALLY fight for them. It's been the Dems for a long time. Do they always get it right. Absolutely not. But, c'mon, the GOP is for the richest of the rich and has been for a long time. The things happening now have been in the works for years. They just sell better. Lie better. Sway better. Dems need to learn to play the propaganda game better, because after it's done, they will actually try to make things better, not prop up an authoritarian wanna-be and his rich friends. And, yes, unfortunately, for a while they need to quieter and smarter about how they try to help the marginalized, because, unfortunately, most people are focused only on themselves and are easily manipulated with the same old game. The rich get us to fight over 5% of the pie, pitting us against each other, while they sit back and enjoy the 95%. The GOP did a great job of scapegoating immigrants and trans people and DEI as the reason the working class is suffering when the real reasons are so much more complicated and harder to tackle.

The smug piece of work is you, laptop class member who obviously just wants to continue to oppress the working classes. The idea that the Democrats will REALLY fight for the working classes now — all evidence to the contrary, we really really truly mean it this time, scout’s honor — is ridiculous. Do you truly think working class people are so stupid that they can’t recognize your hypocrisy?

Come on.

You come on. The only people trying to oppress the working class right here right now are Trump and his GOP cronies.

What EXACTLY had the GOP got in store that will help the working class. Be specific or SDaSU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:wtf does this even mean? I voted for Trump but he’s doing stupid stuff now and probably will lose to the Dems in 2026 and 2028 which is how democracy should work.

Well guess what MAGA our country is about to get f$cked now with Social Security, schools, Medicare etc screwed. You basically said F u to the elderly, schoolchildren (my niche), and our poorer brethren. Please help us RIGHT this SHIP!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you believe this isn’t possible? Or do you just not care because you are fooled into believing it will some how benefit you?

I’m not MAGA. I was one of the Democrats on here begging Democrats to look up (of course nobody did) and who knew Trump would beat Biden, let alone Harris. I think I’m one of the few Democrats posting here that regularly listens to Rogan, Kirk, etc. I’m a Democrat because I am pro-labor, pro-working class (people the Democrats used to care about), but feel alienated from this current identity-focused iteration of the party. Of course I voted for Harris because Trump is a traitor, but I have no love for the current Democrats.

Here is what you don’t understand. The deep red MAGA believe we were in an authoritarian oligarchy under the Democrats. They believe that Democrats used the pandemic to destroy small businesses with their closure and shut-down orders, and to consolidate power into the hands of powerful Democrat donors. They do not believe they receive any benefit whatsoever from government agencies, mostly seeing them as arms of the oligarchy that destroyed small businesses and the education of their children during the pandemic. And these feelings run long and deep: most of them view the pandemic business and school closures as targeted extensions of what Democrats did with NAFTA.

They also view the DEI and identity-focus of current Democrats as explicitly anti-working class. The language of DEI is inexplicable and a clear class marker — no one who isn’t part of the wealthy oligarch class uses incomprehensible terms like “lived experience” in daily conversation — and they feel that it is used by the oligarchs in charge to weaken and isolate them.

So, from the point of view of MAGA, there isn’t a change. That’s what all the hyperventilating out-of-touch posters in DCUM do not understand: the MAGA think we’re already in an authoritarian oligarchy. So, if we are already in one, it might as well be run by someone who doesn’t convey how much he hates them like the Democrats do.

The GOP did their propaganda well. They are very good at accusing the "other side" of what they want to do, selling it hard, and then coming in and doing it themselves.

MAGA can "believe" this all day long, but it is based on lies and it is destroying the country.

So almighty Dem who sees all--what do we do? How do Dems make the truth sexy enough for MAGA to bite? We know they don't operate based on reason and facts. It's all emotion. How do we dismantle the hatred based on lies. They are standing by while our country, our hard won democracy, is destroyed and watching like zombies as we become an autocratic nation ruled by a demented felon and his oligarch friends.

I don't want to live in Russia, Argentina or Hungary.

What do we do?

With the bolded, you show you still don’t get it, and as far as I am concerned, don’t actually want to fight for American democracy. And for the record, I agree that Trump is a major, major threat to American democracy. I think he wants to be Putin, which is terrifying.

But it is not a lie that Democratic pandemic policies destroyed working class businesses. It is not a lie that working class children were most harmed by school closures actively supported by Democrats. You cannot — if you actually want to save this country — refuse to acknowledge that Democrats have caused serious harm to the working classes with their policies. And you have to recognize that many of their favorite planks (identity, student loan forgiveness, etc) come across as extremely elitist.

So what do we do? Well, most Democrats won’t like it, because it’s going to require humility and admitting profound errors. I don’t actually think the party in its current form can manage it. But, the only way to fight back against any oligarchy is with strong labor and working class. That means abandoning fringe identity issues and focusing on true bread and butter labor issues. For instance, for God’s sake stop having trans musicians that mock Christianity open for Bernie Sanders. Instead go to the churches, embrace the religious. Make the tent bigger. Push out anyone who divides, and hammer home the basics: economic security, fair wages, strong working and middle class, good education. Walk away from useless identity politics. Example: men in women’s sports is something most of the country thinks is outright evil and unfair, and just another sign of how the Democrats are elitist oligarchs themselves.

And yes, that means the laptop classes will have to get their feelings hurt. They will have to admit their policies are wildly unpopular. They will have to admit that they’ve abandoned the working classes, and that their focus on things like DEI was done to preserve their role at the top of the Democratic oligarchy ladder.

I don’t think the party can do it. But the answer to an oligarchy is always strong labor and working classes. That’s it. Anything else is just window dressing.

Maybe the DNC can back to open primaries and not coronating candidates like Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris.

Aren't you bothered by the constant use of the term democracy, when democrats are anything but?

Are you actually insinuating that the GOP, with Trump and Musk threatening to primary anyone who disagrees with them or be an independent voice for their constituents are behaving like politicians in a democracy? FFS, sit down.

A better response would be yes, the DNC shenanigans in recent elections bothers me tremendously and I realize that if the people were allowed to nominate a Dem POTUS candidate in 2016, 2020, & 2024 as opposed to the mega-donors nominating the candidate, we would have never lost to someone as weak and awful as Trump.

Being honest with ourselves and not ignoring the obvious will serve us better in the future than denial will.

I agree we should have had better choices. I do not agree that it would have necessarily prevented Trump from getting elected. C'mon, man. There is a significant portion of our population who believe Trump can govern. That is scary and wouldn't have changed based on the Dem candidate. The GOP are good at lying and propaganda. They've been beating Dems at the game for years.

Yes, there are idiots that make up 35% to 40% of the electorate that are true hard core Trump supporters. That kind of support can beat a Joe Biden (or an unfit Joe Biden's last minute replacement candidate) but that kind of support has absolutely no chance against an Obama, Clinton, Reagan, or Bush.

Next to Joe Biden 2024, Trump 2020 and 2024 was the weakest major party presidential nominee ever!! Not rocket science.

[Anonymous]

Democracy combined with an educated electorate would be death for the right. They live on an alternate set of facts they had to generate after they realized reality was not their friend. Authoritarianism and ignorance are their best chance for advancing their agenda. The goal is within their grasp now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw a MAGA acquaintance last night. She's still cool with Trump because he's "getting things done" and all those "illegals" are being deported and the border is finally under control. She thinks DOGE is saving us lots of money and Elon's little boy is so cute.

She doesn't see anything authoritarian going on - especially after all the terrible things Obama and Biden did.

Just look at the Fox News webpage - they don't even try to pretend to report the news anymore.

https://www.foxnews.com/

That’s the problem OP. MAGA only gets the news from right wing media. So when they interact with the rest of the world, they think “the libs are losing it.” I have no idea if there is even a solution. I don’t think anyone at Fox is going to have a change of heart and tell the truth.

I get my news from the Washington Post and WSJ.

I don’t agree with every single cut that’s happened but I also don’t think that reducing the size of the federal government = authoritarianism. Get a grip.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Democracy combined with an educated electorate would be death for the right. They live on an alternate set of facts they had to generate after they realized reality was not their friend. Authoritarianism and ignorance are their best chance for advancing their agenda. The goal is within their grasp now.

We have a Democracy set up to withstand a whole lot of awfulness that can occur with the combination of low IQ voters and crooked politicians thanks to the brilliance of our founding fathers. What our founding fathers couldn't prevent is a two-party political system that would evolve into two toxic money controlled political parties that would eventually leave the American public up poop's creek.

GW, in his farewell speech, was brilliant enough to forecast this one future problem that our government wasn't structured to deal with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you believe this isn’t possible? Or do you just not care because you are fooled into believing it will some how benefit you?

I’m not MAGA. I was one of the Democrats on here begging Democrats to look up (of course nobody did) and who knew Trump would beat Biden, let alone Harris. I think I’m one of the few Democrats posting here that regularly listens to Rogan, Kirk, etc. I’m a Democrat because I am pro-labor, pro-working class (people the Democrats used to care about), but feel alienated from this current identity-focused iteration of the party. Of course I voted for Harris because Trump is a traitor, but I have no love for the current Democrats.

Here is what you don’t understand. The deep red MAGA believe we were in an authoritarian oligarchy under the Democrats. They believe that Democrats used the pandemic to destroy small businesses with their closure and shut-down orders, and to consolidate power into the hands of powerful Democrat donors. They do not believe they receive any benefit whatsoever from government agencies, mostly seeing them as arms of the oligarchy that destroyed small businesses and the education of their children during the pandemic. And these feelings run long and deep: most of them view the pandemic business and school closures as targeted extensions of what Democrats did with NAFTA.

They also view the DEI and identity-focus of current Democrats as explicitly anti-working class. The language of DEI is inexplicable and a clear class marker — no one who isn’t part of the wealthy oligarch class uses incomprehensible terms like “lived experience” in daily conversation — and they feel that it is used by the oligarchs in charge to weaken and isolate them.

So, from the point of view of MAGA, there isn’t a change. That’s what all the hyperventilating out-of-touch posters in DCUM do not understand: the MAGA think we’re already in an authoritarian oligarchy. So, if we are already in one, it might as well be run by someone who doesn’t convey how much he hates them like the Democrats do.

The GOP did their propaganda well. They are very good at accusing the "other side" of what they want to do, selling it hard, and then coming in and doing it themselves.

MAGA can "believe" this all day long, but it is based on lies and it is destroying the country.

So almighty Dem who sees all--what do we do? How do Dems make the truth sexy enough for MAGA to bite? We know they don't operate based on reason and facts. It's all emotion. How do we dismantle the hatred based on lies. They are standing by while our country, our hard won democracy, is destroyed and watching like zombies as we become an autocratic nation ruled by a demented felon and his oligarch friends.

I don't want to live in Russia, Argentina or Hungary.

What do we do?

With the bolded, you show you still don’t get it, and as far as I am concerned, don’t actually want to fight for American democracy. And for the record, I agree that Trump is a major, major threat to American democracy. I think he wants to be Putin, which is terrifying.

But it is not a lie that Democratic pandemic policies destroyed working class businesses. It is not a lie that working class children were most harmed by school closures actively supported by Democrats. You cannot — if you actually want to save this country — refuse to acknowledge that Democrats have caused serious harm to the working classes with their policies. And you have to recognize that many of their favorite planks (identity, student loan forgiveness, etc) come across as extremely elitist.

So what do we do? Well, most Democrats won’t like it, because it’s going to require humility and admitting profound errors. I don’t actually think the party in its current form can manage it. But, the only way to fight back against any oligarchy is with strong labor and working class. That means abandoning fringe identity issues and focusing on true bread and butter labor issues. For instance, for God’s sake stop having trans musicians that mock Christianity open for Bernie Sanders. Instead go to the churches, embrace the religious. Make the tent bigger. Push out anyone who divides, and hammer home the basics: economic security, fair wages, strong working and middle class, good education. Walk away from useless identity politics. Example: men in women’s sports is something most of the country thinks is outright evil and unfair, and just another sign of how the Democrats are elitist oligarchs themselves.

And yes, that means the laptop classes will have to get their feelings hurt. They will have to admit their policies are wildly unpopular. They will have to admit that they’ve abandoned the working classes, and that their focus on things like DEI was done to preserve their role at the top of the Democratic oligarchy ladder.

I don’t think the party can do it. But the answer to an oligarchy is always strong labor and working classes. That’s it. Anything else is just window dressing.

Man, you are a smug piece of work. Not serious about democracy? You aren't in reality, man. Humility on the part of Dems will get them abso-F-in-lutely nowhere now. We live in a world where the GOP take something like a heartfelt apology, twist it, and use it to plunge the knife as deep as they can. They play zero-sum, winner-take-all politics and they play as dirty as it gets. No lie is too dirty. No tactic is too dirty. Everything is us vs. them now. Compromise is weakness. MAGA are in tin foil hat territory.

BOTH parties have done things to hurt the working class. But who will REALLY fight for them. It's been the Dems for a long time. Do they always get it right. Absolutely not. But, c'mon, the GOP is for the richest of the rich and has been for a long time. The things happening now have been in the works for years. They just sell better. Lie better. Sway better. Dems need to learn to play the propaganda game better, because after it's done, they will actually try to make things better, not prop up an authoritarian wanna-be and his rich friends. And, yes, unfortunately, for a while they need to quieter and smarter about how they try to help the marginalized, because, unfortunately, most people are focused only on themselves and are easily manipulated with the same old game. The rich get us to fight over 5% of the pie, pitting us against each other, while they sit back and enjoy the 95%. The GOP did a great job of scapegoating immigrants and trans people and DEI as the reason the working class is suffering when the real reasons are so much more complicated and harder to tackle.

The smug piece of work is you, laptop class member who obviously just wants to continue to oppress the working classes. The idea that the Democrats will REALLY fight for the working classes now — all evidence to the contrary, we really really truly mean it this time, scout’s honor — is ridiculous. Do you truly think working class people are so stupid that they can’t recognize your hypocrisy?

Come on.

I agree for the better part of 2021 the start of Biden's term they had control of the house, they nominally had control of the senate. What dominated their time. They spent their time trying to push a reconciliation bill through. What was the contentious part of the bill? Was it something to help the working class? No No it wasn't. They were trying to get amnesty through on a reconciliation bill.

Even if you believed this rot about it not interfering with the working-class jobs and what not. Don't they have something better to be doing to make good on their promises on the campaign trail. Did they campaign on Amnesty? No they didn't they didn't say two words about immigration, but there it is prime legislative time. Amnesty. The real rub. They had all the votes they needed to say tax the rich or implement other fiscally oriented wealth rebalancing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you believe this isn’t possible? Or do you just not care because you are fooled into believing it will some how benefit you?

I’m not MAGA. I was one of the Democrats on here begging Democrats to look up (of course nobody did) and who knew Trump would beat Biden, let alone Harris. I think I’m one of the few Democrats posting here that regularly listens to Rogan, Kirk, etc. I’m a Democrat because I am pro-labor, pro-working class (people the Democrats used to care about), but feel alienated from this current identity-focused iteration of the party. Of course I voted for Harris because Trump is a traitor, but I have no love for the current Democrats.

Here is what you don’t understand. The deep red MAGA believe we were in an authoritarian oligarchy under the Democrats. They believe that Democrats used the pandemic to destroy small businesses with their closure and shut-down orders, and to consolidate power into the hands of powerful Democrat donors. They do not believe they receive any benefit whatsoever from government agencies, mostly seeing them as arms of the oligarchy that destroyed small businesses and the education of their children during the pandemic. And these feelings run long and deep: most of them view the pandemic business and school closures as targeted extensions of what Democrats did with NAFTA.

They also view the DEI and identity-focus of current Democrats as explicitly anti-working class. The language of DEI is inexplicable and a clear class marker — no one who isn’t part of the wealthy oligarch class uses incomprehensible terms like “lived experience” in daily conversation — and they feel that it is used by the oligarchs in charge to weaken and isolate them.

So, from the point of view of MAGA, there isn’t a change. That’s what all the hyperventilating out-of-touch posters in DCUM do not understand: the MAGA think we’re already in an authoritarian oligarchy. So, if we are already in one, it might as well be run by someone who doesn’t convey how much he hates them like the Democrats do.

The GOP did their propaganda well. They are very good at accusing the "other side" of what they want to do, selling it hard, and then coming in and doing it themselves.

MAGA can "believe" this all day long, but it is based on lies and it is destroying the country.

So almighty Dem who sees all--what do we do? How do Dems make the truth sexy enough for MAGA to bite? We know they don't operate based on reason and facts. It's all emotion. How do we dismantle the hatred based on lies. They are standing by while our country, our hard won democracy, is destroyed and watching like zombies as we become an autocratic nation ruled by a demented felon and his oligarch friends.

I don't want to live in Russia, Argentina or Hungary.

What do we do?

With the bolded, you show you still don’t get it, and as far as I am concerned, don’t actually want to fight for American democracy. And for the record, I agree that Trump is a major, major threat to American democracy. I think he wants to be Putin, which is terrifying.

But it is not a lie that Democratic pandemic policies destroyed working class businesses. It is not a lie that working class children were most harmed by school closures actively supported by Democrats. You cannot — if you actually want to save this country — refuse to acknowledge that Democrats have caused serious harm to the working classes with their policies. And you have to recognize that many of their favorite planks (identity, student loan forgiveness, etc) come across as extremely elitist.

So what do we do? Well, most Democrats won’t like it, because it’s going to require humility and admitting profound errors. I don’t actually think the party in its current form can manage it. But, the only way to fight back against any oligarchy is with strong labor and working class. That means abandoning fringe identity issues and focusing on true bread and butter labor issues. For instance, for God’s sake stop having trans musicians that mock Christianity open for Bernie Sanders. Instead go to the churches, embrace the religious. Make the tent bigger. Push out anyone who divides, and hammer home the basics: economic security, fair wages, strong working and middle class, good education. Walk away from useless identity politics. Example: men in women’s sports is something most of the country thinks is outright evil and unfair, and just another sign of how the Democrats are elitist oligarchs themselves.

And yes, that means the laptop classes will have to get their feelings hurt. They will have to admit their policies are wildly unpopular. They will have to admit that they’ve abandoned the working classes, and that their focus on things like DEI was done to preserve their role at the top of the Democratic oligarchy ladder.

I don’t think the party can do it. But the answer to an oligarchy is always strong labor and working classes. That’s it. Anything else is just window dressing.

Man, you are a smug piece of work. Not serious about democracy? You aren't in reality, man. Humility on the part of Dems will get them abso-F-in-lutely nowhere now. We live in a world where the GOP take something like a heartfelt apology, twist it, and use it to plunge the knife as deep as they can. They play zero-sum, winner-take-all politics and they play as dirty as it gets. No lie is too dirty. No tactic is too dirty. Everything is us vs. them now. Compromise is weakness. MAGA are in tin foil hat territory.

BOTH parties have done things to hurt the working class. But who will REALLY fight for them. It's been the Dems for a long time. Do they always get it right. Absolutely not. But, c'mon, the GOP is for the richest of the rich and has been for a long time. The things happening now have been in the works for years. They just sell better. Lie better. Sway better. Dems need to learn to play the propaganda game better, because after it's done, they will actually try to make things better, not prop up an authoritarian wanna-be and his rich friends. And, yes, unfortunately, for a while they need to quieter and smarter about how they try to help the marginalized, because, unfortunately, most people are focused only on themselves and are easily manipulated with the same old game. The rich get us to fight over 5% of the pie, pitting us against each other, while they sit back and enjoy the 95%. The GOP did a great job of scapegoating immigrants and trans people and DEI as the reason the working class is suffering when the real reasons are so much more complicated and harder to tackle.

The smug piece of work is you, laptop class member who obviously just wants to continue to oppress the working classes. The idea that the Democrats will REALLY fight for the working classes now — all evidence to the contrary, we really really truly mean it this time, scout’s honor — is ridiculous. Do you truly think working class people are so stupid that they can’t recognize your hypocrisy?

Come on.

I agree for the better part of 2021 the start of Biden's term they had control of the house, they nominally had control of the senate. What dominated their time. They spent their time trying to push a reconciliation bill through. What was the contentious part of the bill? Was it something to help the working class? No No it wasn't. They were trying to get amnesty through on a reconciliation bill.

Even if you believed this rot about it not interfering with the working-class jobs and what not. Don't they have something better to be doing to make good on their promises on the campaign trail. Did they campaign on Amnesty? No they didn't they didn't say two words about immigration, but there it is prime legislative time. Amnesty. The real rub. They had all the votes they needed to say tax the rich or implement other fiscally oriented wealth rebalancing.

Tax the rich lol lol lol... do you think our major party politicians are in a position to increases taxes on their wealthy and powerful donors. lol lol... when Bernie or AOC is given a fair shot at a leadership position in Federal Government, I'll believe there is a genuine agenda to "tax the rich".

Trump or Biden taxing the rich? hahahahahahahahahahA!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Democracy combined with an educated electorate would be death for the right. They live on an alternate set of facts they had to generate after they realized reality was not their friend. Authoritarianism and ignorance are their best chance for advancing their agenda. The goal is within their grasp now.

We have a Democracy set up to withstand a whole lot of awfulness that can occur with the combination of low IQ voters and crooked politicians thanks to the brilliance of our founding fathers. What our founding fathers couldn't prevent is a two-party political system that would evolve into two toxic money controlled political parties that would eventually leave the American public up poop's creek.

GW, in his farewell speech, was brilliant enough to forecast this one future problem that our government wasn't structured to deal with.

As an independent, I agree with this statement. I think we’re moving towards a one party system, the party that is currently in power. It’s almost inevitable, the US has been overconfidently moving towards this system for a while, aided by democrats patronizing arrogance, not just MAGA ignorance. It’s an American decision and indecision that has led us here. We wanted to know what it feels like to live under an authoritarian regime and we figured out a way to make it happen. Lessons are still not being learned from both sides. That’s why it’s inevitable. This has been my perception for at least the last 10 years

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Democracy combined with an educated electorate would be death for the right. They live on an alternate set of facts they had to generate after they realized reality was not their friend. Authoritarianism and ignorance are their best chance for advancing their agenda. The goal is within their grasp now.

We have a Democracy set up to withstand a whole lot of awfulness that can occur with the combination of low IQ voters and crooked politicians thanks to the brilliance of our founding fathers. What our founding fathers couldn't prevent is a two-party political system that would evolve into two toxic money controlled political parties that would eventually leave the American public up poop's creek.

GW, in his farewell speech, was brilliant enough to forecast this one future problem that our government wasn't structured to deal with.

As an independent, I agree with this statement. I think we’re moving towards a one party system, the party that is currently in power. It’s almost inevitable, the US has been overconfidently moving towards this system for a while, aided by democrats patronizing arrogance, not just MAGA ignorance. It’s an American decision and indecision that has led us here. We wanted to know what it feels like to live under an authoritarian regime and we figured out a way to make it happen. Lessons are still not being learned from both sides. That’s why it’s inevitable. This has been my perception for at least the last 10 years

Who is we?

If you say the people, I find that hard to square. If Dems need to be more focused com the working class (because the GOP isn’t at all) why would the working class prefer to live under an authoritarian regime? It gives them less power, less freedom, and fewer protections.

If you say, the GOP and the Dem politicians, I’m still not convinced. While money has flowed into both parties, the Dems have made a lot of progress on human rights since I was a kid. I’m middle aged. I’m not buying this nihilistic viewpoint. I think people might extol the benefits of socialism, but authoritarianism…nah. Look at China and DPRK and Russia. The majority of Americans don’t want to live like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Democracy combined with an educated electorate would be death for the right. They live on an alternate set of facts they had to generate after they realized reality was not their friend. Authoritarianism and ignorance are their best chance for advancing their agenda. The goal is within their grasp now.

We have a Democracy set up to withstand a whole lot of awfulness that can occur with the combination of low IQ voters and crooked politicians thanks to the brilliance of our founding fathers. What our founding fathers couldn't prevent is a two-party political system that would evolve into two toxic money controlled political parties that would eventually leave the American public up poop's creek.

GW, in his farewell speech, was brilliant enough to forecast this one future problem that our government wasn't structured to deal with.

As an independent, I agree with this statement. I think we’re moving towards a one party system, the party that is currently in power. It’s almost inevitable, the US has been overconfidently moving towards this system for a while, aided by democrats patronizing arrogance, not just MAGA ignorance. It’s an American decision and indecision that has led us here. We wanted to know what it feels like to live under an authoritarian regime and we figured out a way to make it happen. Lessons are still not being learned from both sides. That’s why it’s inevitable. This has been my perception for at least the last 10 years

I agree with your assessment of where we are and where we're heading but I don't agree that it is inevitable. It will take just one elite individual with presidential leaderships skills and presidential integrity to step up and a return to normalcy will follow.

The lack of leadership we've experienced since 2017 has led to an unprecedented tenure of division and dysfunction in Federal Government that wouldn't have happened without Trump and Biden somehow becoming our "best options".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Democracy combined with an educated electorate would be death for the right. They live on an alternate set of facts they had to generate after they realized reality was not their friend. Authoritarianism and ignorance are their best chance for advancing their agenda. The goal is within their grasp now.

We have a Democracy set up to withstand a whole lot of awfulness that can occur with the combination of low IQ voters and crooked politicians thanks to the brilliance of our founding fathers. What our founding fathers couldn't prevent is a two-party political system that would evolve into two toxic money controlled political parties that would eventually leave the American public up poop's creek.

GW, in his farewell speech, was brilliant enough to forecast this one future problem that our government wasn't structured to deal with.

As an independent, I agree with this statement. I think we’re moving towards a one party system, the party that is currently in power. It’s almost inevitable, the US has been overconfidently moving towards this system for a while, aided by democrats patronizing arrogance, not just MAGA ignorance. It’s an American decision and indecision that has led us here. We wanted to know what it feels like to live under an authoritarian regime and we figured out a way to make it happen. Lessons are still not being learned from both sides. That’s why it’s inevitable. This has been my perception for at least the last 10 years

Who is we?

If you say the people, I find that hard to square. If Dems need to be more focused com the working class (because the GOP isn’t at all) why would the working class prefer to live under an authoritarian regime? It gives them less power, less freedom, and fewer protections.

If you say, the GOP and the Dem politicians, I’m still not convinced. While money has flowed into both parties, the Dems have made a lot of progress on human rights since I was a kid. I’m middle aged. I’m not buying this nihilistic viewpoint. I think people might extol the benefits of socialism, but authoritarianism…nah. Look at China and DPRK and Russia. The majority of Americans don’t want to live like that.

My father is dead now, but he told me once, sometime in the late 80s or early 90s, that the best form of government was a benevolent dictator. He couldn't stand the chaos that democracy fosters. He was a conservative. I think some people just want a strong leader in charge because they are generally just fearful. I hate to say that about my father. But I think it rings true for a good many people. And for many of them, what Trump is doing now feels protective.

Until it won't. But by then it will be too late.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you believe this isn’t possible? Or do you just not care because you are fooled into believing it will some how benefit you?

I’m not MAGA. I was one of the Democrats on here begging Democrats to look up (of course nobody did) and who knew Trump would beat Biden, let alone Harris. I think I’m one of the few Democrats posting here that regularly listens to Rogan, Kirk, etc. I’m a Democrat because I am pro-labor, pro-working class (people the Democrats used to care about), but feel alienated from this current identity-focused iteration of the party. Of course I voted for Harris because Trump is a traitor, but I have no love for the current Democrats.

Here is what you don’t understand. The deep red MAGA believe we were in an authoritarian oligarchy under the Democrats. They believe that Democrats used the pandemic to destroy small businesses with their closure and shut-down orders, and to consolidate power into the hands of powerful Democrat donors. They do not believe they receive any benefit whatsoever from government agencies, mostly seeing them as arms of the oligarchy that destroyed small businesses and the education of their children during the pandemic. And these feelings run long and deep: most of them view the pandemic business and school closures as targeted extensions of what Democrats did with NAFTA.

They also view the DEI and identity-focus of current Democrats as explicitly anti-working class. The language of DEI is inexplicable and a clear class marker — no one who isn’t part of the wealthy oligarch class uses incomprehensible terms like “lived experience” in daily conversation — and they feel that it is used by the oligarchs in charge to weaken and isolate them.

So, from the point of view of MAGA, there isn’t a change. That’s what all the hyperventilating out-of-touch posters in DCUM do not understand: the MAGA think we’re already in an authoritarian oligarchy. So, if we are already in one, it might as well be run by someone who doesn’t convey how much he hates them like the Democrats do.

This is really good insight.

Unfortunately I think things are likely too far gone to go back, but hopefully we will limp along instead of turning full fascist. I do think we risk large-scale violence at some point.