How to raise two “failure to launch” adult children?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll repost something I commented on the other failure to launch thread:

I am a therapist who specializes in "failure to launch" young adults. Most of the clients on my caseload have a Cluster B personality disorder (either BPD or NPD), or become very close to meeting diagnostic criteria for one of them. One of the key components to raising a failure to launch young adult is that they have very little sense of self and self-direction because their own desires, emotions, and wants have been railroaded by their parents during their childhood and adolescence.

A very common scenario in my therapy practice (in an UMC neighborhood not unsimilar to, say, Mclean or Bethesda in the DMV) is that the parents pushed their (temperamentally sensitive) kid to elite private schools or public schools in competitive, wealthy school districts so that their kid attends a T20 college. The innately sensitive kid is then pushed to a high-paying career path such as tech, medicine, or finance, and when they can't hack it, they move back home as a 22 year old (or a 26, or sometimes 30 year old), and the failure to launch spiral begins.

The parents usually alternate between intense pride and shame for their kid (this is called "splitting" by clinicians, and I see a lot of this black-and-white thinking on DCUM). On one hand, they are filled with intense pride that their kid is an elite college grad and feel as if it reflects on them as parents. OTOH, the parents have intense shame for their kid because he/she failed to live up to the high expectations that they placed on their kid.

But wait, you might be wondering, why weren't these parents able to pick up on the fact that their kids are characterologically more sensitive and thus not well-suited for a path of Harvard and then McKinsey? These parents are unable to notice their kid's sensitive nature because they lack emotional attunement (which, to be fair, many first-gen UMC people who had to "pull themselves by their bootstraps" are deficient in).

One of the first things I do as a therapist is to ask my clients to describe themselves, and ask my client's parents to describe their kid. Oftentimes I'll notice that both the failure to launch young adult and the parents are unable to provide an accurate, fully-fleshed out description of their kid to me because all parties lack the ability to "mentalize" -- in other words, be attuned to the emotional states of themselves and others.

It's actually quite sad when I ask parents to describe their adult child to me, and they'll say some version of "Oh, you know, she's smart and hard working." I'll ask if there are any other traits, and they'll just give me a blank stare. The parents are unable to mentalize any other personality traits besides "smart and conscientious."

And I really feel for these parents. It's difficult being in this situation. But I think even the most loyal and well-adjusted of children would admit that they would rather be understood than be loved but misunderstood.

I only read your first two paragraphs but this is exactly what is wrong with our society. You are blaming the parents, again. What a shitty therapist you are. Enabling those that are almost 40, by blaming their parents. Is there any personal accountability any more?

I agree. Most therapists are useless and solve no problems but place blame on parents. All this BS about asking parents what the traits of their kids are and parents not being able to define is absolute nonsense. People are accountable for their actions once they are adults.

Again, this commenter is a case of being unable to effectively sublimate anger. Asking parents for the most basic of personality traits and temperaments of their adult children is not that far of a stretch; I personally think it's quite sad and tragic when parents are unable to answer this question accurately. Having a parent who can't accept you for who you are (because of their own internalized pride and shame) isn't "absolutely nonsense," except to those who are in deep denial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll repost something I commented on the other failure to launch thread:

I am a therapist who specializes in "failure to launch" young adults. Most of the clients on my caseload have a Cluster B personality disorder (either BPD or NPD), or become very close to meeting diagnostic criteria for one of them. One of the key components to raising a failure to launch young adult is that they have very little sense of self and self-direction because their own desires, emotions, and wants have been railroaded by their parents during their childhood and adolescence.

A very common scenario in my therapy practice (in an UMC neighborhood not unsimilar to, say, Mclean or Bethesda in the DMV) is that the parents pushed their (temperamentally sensitive) kid to elite private schools or public schools in competitive, wealthy school districts so that their kid attends a T20 college. The innately sensitive kid is then pushed to a high-paying career path such as tech, medicine, or finance, and when they can't hack it, they move back home as a 22 year old (or a 26, or sometimes 30 year old), and the failure to launch spiral begins.

The parents usually alternate between intense pride and shame for their kid (this is called "splitting" by clinicians, and I see a lot of this black-and-white thinking on DCUM). On one hand, they are filled with intense pride that their kid is an elite college grad and feel as if it reflects on them as parents. OTOH, the parents have intense shame for their kid because he/she failed to live up to the high expectations that they placed on their kid.

But wait, you might be wondering, why weren't these parents able to pick up on the fact that their kids are characterologically more sensitive and thus not well-suited for a path of Harvard and then McKinsey? These parents are unable to notice their kid's sensitive nature because they lack emotional attunement (which, to be fair, many first-gen UMC people who had to "pull themselves by their bootstraps" are deficient in).

One of the first things I do as a therapist is to ask my clients to describe themselves, and ask my client's parents to describe their kid. Oftentimes I'll notice that both the failure to launch young adult and the parents are unable to provide an accurate, fully-fleshed out description of their kid to me because all parties lack the ability to "mentalize" -- in other words, be attuned to the emotional states of themselves and others.

It's actually quite sad when I ask parents to describe their adult child to me, and they'll say some version of "Oh, you know, she's smart and hard working." I'll ask if there are any other traits, and they'll just give me a blank stare. The parents are unable to mentalize any other personality traits besides "smart and conscientious."

And I really feel for these parents. It's difficult being in this situation. But I think even the most loyal and well-adjusted of children would admit that they would rather be understood than be loved but misunderstood.

I only read your first two paragraphs but this is exactly what is wrong with our society. You are blaming the parents, again. What a shitty therapist you are. Enabling those that are almost 40, by blaming their parents. Is there any personal accountability any more?

Therapist PP here. Two things:

1. I always tell my clients that "it's not your fault that you ended up with a Cluster B personality disorder, but it is your responsibility to resolve it." I am very careful to entirely place agency on my clients to resolve their issues.

2. The fact that you're cursing me out and becoming so angry at me over a post where you didn't even read the entire comment is, well, in clinical terms, a failure to effectively sublimate anger (which is common of many Axis 2 disorders).

Is it really any surprise that parents who are unwilling (and, in most cases, resent) admitting their fault in raising adult children with failure to launch issues end up with kids who similarly are unwilling and resentful of taking responsibility for their actions? The apple doesn't fall far from the tree here. I suspect, PP, that my post resonated too closely to your situation (maybe you have adult children of your own who are failure to launch, or maybe one of your siblings is a FTL case, or a close family friend...) and the intense anger and rage you're seething with over an anonymous poster whose comment you couldn't even be bothered to fully read is indicative of a sense of internal shame you've absorbed.

+100

[Anonymous]

Get off your high horse op you are disgraceful

Your friend needs compassion

You have no idea what they have dealt with once that door shuts to their home

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'll repost something I commented on the other failure to launch thread:

I am a therapist who specializes in "failure to launch" young adults. Most of the clients on my caseload have a Cluster B personality disorder (either BPD or NPD), or become very close to meeting diagnostic criteria for one of them. One of the key components to raising a failure to launch young adult is that they have very little sense of self and self-direction because their own desires, emotions, and wants have been railroaded by their parents during their childhood and adolescence.

A very common scenario in my therapy practice (in an UMC neighborhood not unsimilar to, say, Mclean or Bethesda in the DMV) is that the parents pushed their (temperamentally sensitive) kid to elite private schools or public schools in competitive, wealthy school districts so that their kid attends a T20 college. The innately sensitive kid is then pushed to a high-paying career path such as tech, medicine, or finance, and when they can't hack it, they move back home as a 22 year old (or a 26, or sometimes 30 year old), and the failure to launch spiral begins.

The parents usually alternate between intense pride and shame for their kid (this is called "splitting" by clinicians, and I see a lot of this black-and-white thinking on DCUM). On one hand, they are filled with intense pride that their kid is an elite college grad and feel as if it reflects on them as parents. OTOH, the parents have intense shame for their kid because he/she failed to live up to the high expectations that they placed on their kid.

But wait, you might be wondering, why weren't these parents able to pick up on the fact that their kids are characterologically more sensitive and thus not well-suited for a path of Harvard and then McKinsey? These parents are unable to notice their kid's sensitive nature because they lack emotional attunement (which, to be fair, many first-gen UMC people who had to "pull themselves by their bootstraps" are deficient in).

One of the first things I do as a therapist is to ask my clients to describe themselves, and ask my client's parents to describe their kid. Oftentimes I'll notice that both the failure to launch young adult and the parents are unable to provide an accurate, fully-fleshed out description of their kid to me because all parties lack the ability to "mentalize" -- in other words, be attuned to the emotional states of themselves and others.

It's actually quite sad when I ask parents to describe their adult child to me, and they'll say some version of "Oh, you know, she's smart and hard working." I'll ask if there are any other traits, and they'll just give me a blank stare. The parents are unable to mentalize any other personality traits besides "smart and conscientious."

And I really feel for these parents. It's difficult being in this situation. But I think even the most loyal and well-adjusted of children would admit that they would rather be understood than be loved but misunderstood.

Bingo!

“One of the key components to raising a failure to launch young adult is that they have very little sense of self and self-direction because their own desires, emotions, and wants have been railroaded by their parents during their childhood and adolescence.”


My mother would have allowed me not to launch and used to ask me to return home because it was “one way she could help me.”

She did a lot of mental sabotaging but I became very stubborn and ignored her efforts to keep me close.

No, thanks! Thank god I got out of there!

[Anonymous]

To the therapist on here. Different poster here. Therapy is a mess of a profession and is creating more failure to launch kids than ever before. It is an enabling profession that doesnt have any accountability and gets more money the longer a problem goes on. People are giving up on therapy because there are no metrics to actually help people. Before worrying about other posters take a look in the mirror of your profession and why it's failing so badly. These kids are not being cured and are typically becoming worse with therapy and medication.

[Anonymous]

Not sure but gentle parenting is bound to result in many failure to launch kids.

The kids will be unprepared for the reality of the real world. They won’t be used to anyone saying rude remarks or negative feedback.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the therapist on here. Different poster here. Therapy is a mess of a profession and is creating more failure to launch kids than ever before. It is an enabling profession that doesnt have any accountability and gets more money the longer a problem goes on. People are giving up on therapy because there are no metrics to actually help people. Before worrying about other posters take a look in the mirror of your profession and why it's failing so badly. These kids are not being cured and are typically becoming worse with therapy and medication.

This. It’s pretty obvious that therapy doesn’t help many people. It’s self indulgent.

[Anonymous]

I don’t think you are really a friend of hers, “friends” don’t go online to trash talk each other. You bashed her to make yourself feel good about your choices.

[Anonymous]

As a parent of an adult child with lifelong serious mental illness, and another adult child who is to all appearances successful but is seething with resentment and has underlying problems they don't want to confront, this thread is very enlightening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think you are really a friend of hers, “friends” don’t go online to trash talk each other. You bashed her to make yourself feel good about your choices.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the therapist on here. Different poster here. Therapy is a mess of a profession and is creating more failure to launch kids than ever before. It is an enabling profession that doesnt have any accountability and gets more money the longer a problem goes on. People are giving up on therapy because there are no metrics to actually help people. Before worrying about other posters take a look in the mirror of your profession and why it's failing so badly. These kids are not being cured and are typically becoming worse with therapy and medication.

This. It’s pretty obvious that therapy doesn’t help many people. It’s self indulgent.

Therapist PP here. No doubt about it that many therapists are incompetent and that some are incentivized to drag problems on for longer than they have to, but any therapist worth their salt will tell you that the goal of therapy is to (eventually) leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of an adult child with lifelong serious mental illness, and another adult child who is to all appearances successful but is seething with resentment and has underlying problems they don't want to confront, this thread is very enlightening.

How do you know that your kid is “seething with resentment and has underlying problems?” Judgmental much? Jesus

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My childhood friend has her two adult children living at home with her I can only imagine indefinitely and it’s her doing.

Her oldest is 34 and the same age as my daughter. They attended High School together and he was incredibly high achieving and graduated salutatorian and went to a distinguished 4 year university. Graduated, moved back home and has never left or worked again.

He has some mental health issues but his parents refuse to set any boundaries or expectations and they just allowed him to spiral. My friend babies him and he just sits in the attic on his computer 24/7 gaining weight and getting more and more depressed. My friend does everything for him from laundry to cooking. A vicious cycle of his self esteem plummeting.

My similar aged daughter struggled with mental health in college too. She ended up dropping out and moving back home. We put her in therapy and told her she needed to find a job but we’d support her with getting to and from therapy and work. About 6 months of therapy and a minimum wage paying job and she was ready to go back to school. Stayed with us while finishing up and graduated a year late but is now doing great. Good career, married with kids.

My friend complains constantly about not having grandkids but how does she expect it when she keeps her kids perpetually children?

I think the root is her @$$h*le husband. He’s emotionally unavailable so she keeps her kids close so she doesn’t feel useless or lonely.

my spouse and I had a similar situation only that the mother parked her adult child in our house. We kicked them out and moved on. The person had a rough landing but eventually figured out life for themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the therapist on here. Different poster here. Therapy is a mess of a profession and is creating more failure to launch kids than ever before. It is an enabling profession that doesnt have any accountability and gets more money the longer a problem goes on. People are giving up on therapy because there are no metrics to actually help people. Before worrying about other posters take a look in the mirror of your profession and why it's failing so badly. These kids are not being cured and are typically becoming worse with therapy and medication.

This. It’s pretty obvious that therapy doesn’t help many people. It’s self indulgent.

Therapist PP here. No doubt about it that many therapists are incompetent and that some are incentivized to drag problems on for longer than they have to, but any therapist worth their salt will tell you that the goal of therapy is to (eventually) leave.

But leave how? Hating others and becoming a narcissist about themselves? For all the people that go through therapy, only about 20% ever actually get better and lead a better life.

[Anonymous]

And those people were on a growth mindset to begin with. The majority of people that go to therapy are self-indulgent. They don't really go to improve themselves. They go to vent and be validated. It's both the patient and the therapist that are creating this vicious narcissist/victim cycle.