How to raise two “failure to launch” adult children?

[Anonymous]

She’s afraid of losing him to suicide. And it doesn’t seem like she’s got a decent support system. (This includes you OP)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll repost something I commented on the other failure to launch thread:

I am a therapist who specializes in "failure to launch" young adults. Most of the clients on my caseload have a Cluster B personality disorder (either BPD or NPD), or become very close to meeting diagnostic criteria for one of them. One of the key components to raising a failure to launch young adult is that they have very little sense of self and self-direction because their own desires, emotions, and wants have been railroaded by their parents during their childhood and adolescence.

A very common scenario in my therapy practice (in an UMC neighborhood not unsimilar to, say, Mclean or Bethesda in the DMV) is that the parents pushed their (temperamentally sensitive) kid to elite private schools or public schools in competitive, wealthy school districts so that their kid attends a T20 college. The innately sensitive kid is then pushed to a high-paying career path such as tech, medicine, or finance, and when they can't hack it, they move back home as a 22 year old (or a 26, or sometimes 30 year old), and the failure to launch spiral begins.

The parents usually alternate between intense pride and shame for their kid (this is called "splitting" by clinicians, and I see a lot of this black-and-white thinking on DCUM). On one hand, they are filled with intense pride that their kid is an elite college grad and feel as if it reflects on them as parents. OTOH, the parents have intense shame for their kid because he/she failed to live up to the high expectations that they placed on their kid.

But wait, you might be wondering, why weren't these parents able to pick up on the fact that their kids are characterologically more sensitive and thus not well-suited for a path of Harvard and then McKinsey? These parents are unable to notice their kid's sensitive nature because they lack emotional attunement (which, to be fair, many first-gen UMC people who had to "pull themselves by their bootstraps" are deficient in).

One of the first things I do as a therapist is to ask my clients to describe themselves, and ask my client's parents to describe their kid. Oftentimes I'll notice that both the failure to launch young adult and the parents are unable to provide an accurate, fully-fleshed out description of their kid to me because all parties lack the ability to "mentalize" -- in other words, be attuned to the emotional states of themselves and others.

It's actually quite sad when I ask parents to describe their adult child to me, and they'll say some version of "Oh, you know, she's smart and hard working." I'll ask if there are any other traits, and they'll just give me a blank stare. The parents are unable to mentalize any other personality traits besides "smart and conscientious."

And I really feel for these parents. It's difficult being in this situation. But I think even the most loyal and well-adjusted of children would admit that they would rather be understood than be loved but misunderstood.

Bingo!

“One of the key components to raising a failure to launch young adult is that they have very little sense of self and self-direction because their own desires, emotions, and wants have been railroaded by their parents during their childhood and adolescence.”


My mother would have allowed me not to launch and used to ask me to return home because it was “one way she could help me.”

She did a lot of mental sabotaging but I became very stubborn and ignored her efforts to keep me close.

No, thanks! Thank god I got out of there!

[/


Fascinating!! Know 50+ adults in the DMV who fit this bill.

My father was incredibly abusive and violent. My mother responded by being a full blown addict, unemployed in my teen years and for fifteen years thereafter. I “launched” at age 17. No financial assistance from anyone. Undergrad at a Top 10 school athletic scholarship, thereafter did a T10 law school. Really did well academically, about as good as one could do. My parents were uneducated with every vice and bad habit under the sun.

I suffered from depression and trauma. I won a national championship at the end of high school, and was so depressed and suicidal right thereafter I went into the stadium figuring out how to end it all. The West Point coach recruiting there saw me and with a heart of gold coaxed me back to the podium to accept my award. I made it out on dumb luck like this.

Again, lucky as can be. Yes, I was tough and competitive, but that came with the sport. It never ceased to amaze me the good people sent into my life. I was very sick and my medical care was the athletic trainer. A well known guy actually. He was good at orthopedic type injuries (I never was injured), but not so much with a severe infection. I went to the hospital- one of the best in the nation - student health was at the edge of campus with a long wait. A nurse practitioner agreed to see me (I couldn’t pay) and she diagnosed and treated the strep throat I picked up. But she also noted I was depressed. She saw I had the weight of the world on my shoulders and asked me to come to her office for ten minutes every week. No charge. No record of treatment for a scared kid on scholarship. She made me go from being miserable to feeling resilient. She also made me feel grateful. I didn’t drink or do drugs (no money for that and I was only so talented athletically). She made me realize I had terrific freedom, with no one setting conditions on me. I made my own decisions and while difficult liked the guy in the mirror. I collected lots of free Hardee’s chicken sandwich coupons and on travel for competitions felt like a million bucks eating those free sandwiches. Yes their was per diem but I was always hungry. It was freedom for me.

I write this because the so-called failure to launch types may be in situations where they don’t get enough freedom to actualize. I am not sure it is their “fault”. Who in the heck would recommend what I did? The insanity of it all. The freedom saved me. If young people could get some freedoms it could go a long way.

Amazing post. Congrats to you for making it through

[weathervane771]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the therapist on here. Different poster here. Therapy is a mess of a profession and is creating more failure to launch kids than ever before. It is an enabling profession that doesnt have any accountability and gets more money the longer a problem goes on. People are giving up on therapy because there are no metrics to actually help people. Before worrying about other posters take a look in the mirror of your profession and why it's failing so badly. These kids are not being cured and are typically becoming worse with therapy and medication.

This. It’s pretty obvious that therapy doesn’t help many people. It’s self indulgent.

Therapist PP here. No doubt about it that many therapists are incompetent and that some are incentivized to drag problems on for longer than they have to, but any therapist worth their salt will tell you that the goal of therapy is to (eventually) leave.

Realize this is an old thread but - are you the therapist who has posted several extended (and helpful!) comments on your work with failure-to-launch adults in the DMV area? Would you be able to DM me? I am asking because I wonder if you have referrals to practices in the area specifically for this. Many thanks

[Anonymous]

some people will never grow up or move out. LET THEM BE, some will be 40 or 50 or 60 and still at home and will just switch rooms after the parents pass away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:some people will never grow up or move out. LET THEM BE, some will be 40 or 50 or 60 and still at home and will just switch rooms after the parents pass away.

At a certain point this becomes beneficial, or at least safer, for the parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll repost something I commented on the other failure to launch thread:

I am a therapist who specializes in "failure to launch" young adults. Most of the clients on my caseload have a Cluster B personality disorder (either BPD or NPD), or become very close to meeting diagnostic criteria for one of them. One of the key components to raising a failure to launch young adult is that they have very little sense of self and self-direction because their own desires, emotions, and wants have been railroaded by their parents during their childhood and adolescence.

A very common scenario in my therapy practice (in an UMC neighborhood not unsimilar to, say, Mclean or Bethesda in the DMV) is that the parents pushed their (temperamentally sensitive) kid to elite private schools or public schools in competitive, wealthy school districts so that their kid attends a T20 college. The innately sensitive kid is then pushed to a high-paying career path such as tech, medicine, or finance, and when they can't hack it, they move back home as a 22 year old (or a 26, or sometimes 30 year old), and the failure to launch spiral begins.

The parents usually alternate between intense pride and shame for their kid (this is called "splitting" by clinicians, and I see a lot of this black-and-white thinking on DCUM). On one hand, they are filled with intense pride that their kid is an elite college grad and feel as if it reflects on them as parents. OTOH, the parents have intense shame for their kid because he/she failed to live up to the high expectations that they placed on their kid.

But wait, you might be wondering, why weren't these parents able to pick up on the fact that their kids are characterologically more sensitive and thus not well-suited for a path of Harvard and then McKinsey? These parents are unable to notice their kid's sensitive nature because they lack emotional attunement (which, to be fair, many first-gen UMC people who had to "pull themselves by their bootstraps" are deficient in).

One of the first things I do as a therapist is to ask my clients to describe themselves, and ask my client's parents to describe their kid. Oftentimes I'll notice that both the failure to launch young adult and the parents are unable to provide an accurate, fully-fleshed out description of their kid to me because all parties lack the ability to "mentalize" -- in other words, be attuned to the emotional states of themselves and others.

It's actually quite sad when I ask parents to describe their adult child to me, and they'll say some version of "Oh, you know, she's smart and hard working." I'll ask if there are any other traits, and they'll just give me a blank stare. The parents are unable to mentalize any other personality traits besides "smart and conscientious."

And I really feel for these parents. It's difficult being in this situation. But I think even the most loyal and well-adjusted of children would admit that they would rather be understood than be loved but misunderstood.

Bingo!

“One of the key components to raising a failure to launch young adult is that they have very little sense of self and self-direction because their own desires, emotions, and wants have been railroaded by their parents during their childhood and adolescence.”


My mother would have allowed me not to launch and used to ask me to return home because it was “one way she could help me.”

She did a lot of mental sabotaging but I became very stubborn and ignored her efforts to keep me close.

No, thanks! Thank god I got out of there!

For all the people attacking the therapist for citing the parent is the locus let me present Big Edie and Little Edie.
Parents can really do a lot to twist their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You're really online talking $#it about a woman taking care of her son with mental health issues the best she can? You have no idea about their darkest moments. You are a POS, OP.

Mental health issues aren’t necessarily an excuse to coddle and enable your children. I have some mentally ill relatives with well off parents that do the same thing and honestly it makes it worse. Like one lost their job, got depressed, moved back, and now hasn’t worked for 10+ years besides a few odd jobs. She has no motivation to get a better job because of living expenses being covered and promised inheritance, but now that her parents are older and will probably need a lot of care (beyond what she can or is willing to provide herself) this inheritance will likely be much less than she assumed, not enough to retire comfortably on. Her parents trying to coddle her only made things worse in the end.

[Anonymous]

It's amazing how many of you fell for a quack with Chatgpt

[Anonymous]

weathervane771 wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the therapist on here. Different poster here. Therapy is a mess of a profession and is creating more failure to launch kids than ever before. It is an enabling profession that doesnt have any accountability and gets more money the longer a problem goes on. People are giving up on therapy because there are no metrics to actually help people. Before worrying about other posters take a look in the mirror of your profession and why it's failing so badly. These kids are not being cured and are typically becoming worse with therapy and medication.

This. It’s pretty obvious that therapy doesn’t help many people. It’s self indulgent.

Therapist PP here. No doubt about it that many therapists are incompetent and that some are incentivized to drag problems on for longer than they have to, but any therapist worth their salt will tell you that the goal of therapy is to (eventually) leave.

Realize this is an old thread but - are you the therapist who has posted several extended (and helpful!) comments on your work with failure-to-launch adults in the DMV area? Would you be able to DM me? I am asking because I wonder if you have referrals to practices in the area specifically for this. Many thanks

Therapist PP here. Unfortunately it looks like I can't PM you unless I register my own account, but I'm not aware of any group practices in the area that specialize in this. You'll want to look at Transference-Focused Psychotherapy, which is disproportionately in NYC (although some providers might be willing to see you out of state). There are a few providers in Boston/Chicago/Philadelphia who also practice Transference-Focused Psychotherapy; the only individual clinician I'm aware of in the DMV who practices Transference-Focused Psychotherapy is Brian Sharpless. Best of luck!

[Anonymous]

[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:My childhood friend has her two adult children living at home with her I can only imagine indefinitely and it’s her doing.

Her oldest is 34 and the same age as my daughter. They attended High School together and he was incredibly high achieving and graduated salutatorian and went to a distinguished 4 year university. Graduated, moved back home and has never left or worked again.

He has some mental health issues but his parents refuse to set any boundaries or expectations and they just allowed him to spiral. My friend babies him and he just sits in the attic on his computer 24/7 gaining weight and getting more and more depressed. My friend does everything for him from laundry to cooking. A vicious cycle of his self esteem plummeting.

My similar aged daughter struggled with mental health in college too. She ended up dropping out and moving back home. We put her in therapy and told her she needed to find a job but we’d support her with getting to and from therapy and work. About 6 months of therapy and a minimum wage paying job and she was ready to go back to school. Stayed with us while finishing up and graduated a year late but is now doing great. Good career, married with kids.

My friend complains constantly about not having grandkids but how does she expect it when she keeps her kids perpetually children?

I think the root is her @$$h*le husband. He’s emotionally unavailable so she keeps her kids close so she doesn’t feel useless or lonely.

My sibling attempt suicide multiple times when we tried tough love and “get a job”. That’s often how they get coddled because as a parent them dying seems worse than this situation.

As a sibling, I honestly am as sure that is true, but understand the instinct and hope I never have to face that choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'll repost something I commented on the other failure to launch thread:

I am a therapist who specializes in "failure to launch" young adults. Most of the clients on my caseload have a Cluster B personality disorder (either BPD or NPD), or become very close to meeting diagnostic criteria for one of them. One of the key components to raising a failure to launch young adult is that they have very little sense of self and self-direction because their own desires, emotions, and wants have been railroaded by their parents during their childhood and adolescence.

A very common scenario in my therapy practice (in an UMC neighborhood not unsimilar to, say, Mclean or Bethesda in the DMV) is that the parents pushed their (temperamentally sensitive) kid to elite private schools or public schools in competitive, wealthy school districts so that their kid attends a T20 college. The innately sensitive kid is then pushed to a high-paying career path such as tech, medicine, or finance, and when they can't hack it, they move back home as a 22 year old (or a 26, or sometimes 30 year old), and the failure to launch spiral begins.

The parents usually alternate between intense pride and shame for their kid (this is called "splitting" by clinicians, and I see a lot of this black-and-white thinking on DCUM). On one hand, they are filled with intense pride that their kid is an elite college grad and feel as if it reflects on them as parents. OTOH, the parents have intense shame for their kid because he/she failed to live up to the high expectations that they placed on their kid.

But wait, you might be wondering, why weren't these parents able to pick up on the fact that their kids are characterologically more sensitive and thus not well-suited for a path of Harvard and then McKinsey? These parents are unable to notice their kid's sensitive nature because they lack emotional attunement (which, to be fair, many first-gen UMC people who had to "pull themselves by their bootstraps" are deficient in).

One of the first things I do as a therapist is to ask my clients to describe themselves, and ask my client's parents to describe their kid. Oftentimes I'll notice that both the failure to launch young adult and the parents are unable to provide an accurate, fully-fleshed out description of their kid to me because all parties lack the ability to "mentalize" -- in other words, be attuned to the emotional states of themselves and others.

It's actually quite sad when I ask parents to describe their adult child to me, and they'll say some version of "Oh, you know, she's smart and hard working." I'll ask if there are any other traits, and they'll just give me a blank stare. The parents are unable to mentalize any other personality traits besides "smart and conscientious."

And I really feel for these parents. It's difficult being in this situation. But I think even the most loyal and well-adjusted of children would admit that they would rather be understood than be loved but misunderstood.

My sister is disabled for dependent personality disorder, with BPD traits. Multiple graduate degrees from high ranking universities, but essentially quit their first job in 6 months by calling in sick endlessly because couldn’t deal with having to go to work (at this point both parents had died about a year prior). She attempted suicide several times during this period.

Dad was alcoholic, never worked in our lifetime despite a law degree, and slept till noon most days. Mom was driven to push us kids to do well, but never pushed for elite careers just good universities and figured we would be set for life once you get that (obv neither of us knew what to do career wise and made passion-job dumb choices). Mom was bulemic at different points in life, and I think latched onto my sister as her closest relationship since dad was often unavailable (drunk or asleep). No violence or fighting, fairly peaceful low conflict — though I think my mom was critical of my sister much more than me, but we are 10 years apart so I am unsure.

Does this match your experience for PD development?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Failure to launch is not a kid still living at home.

Family wealth is a thing. And it's a dam good thing.

This. My nephew's been subsidized by his parents through periods of unemployment or underemployment. Thanks to an inheritance and invested gifts from family through the years, he is now fully-launched with a FT job, marriage, and condo.

[Anonymous]

There is no age limit to drop kids off at local firehouse