If your kid is not interested in Ivys or top 20

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a defense mechanism. If I reject these schools first, they can’t reject me. I have seen parents say all kinds of cra@p when their kid had zero chance or the stats for a T10 or even T20.

Is it really that difficult to believe that a good student may actually want to go to a college besides the Ivies?!

I second this opinion. I wish more good students want to go to lower ranks schools so my kid has better chance at T20. It's a win win for everyone.

I’m curious to see the data on Jewish students going to the Ivys this year, particularly Columbia. Columbia’s Jewish population has been over 20% for years and I have to think it will dip for this incoming class and even further for those entering in ‘25. Are these kids looking at other ivys? Other than maybe Dartmouth, I’m not so sure. I expect if they are anything like my son they are looking at the strong flagships (UVA,UMich, UNC, UF) and privates like Vandy, Duke, WashU. If all of the ivys lose even 1-2% of their Jewish admits, these high achieving kids have to go somewhere.

While there are some Jewish kids opting against an Ivy for headline reasons…the bigger trend is just that Jewish American kids face the same competitive odds and holistic admissions as anyone else.

My Jewish Ivy alum friends’ kids aren’t applying because of any headline issues…they just don’t think they are getting accepted and making reasoned decisions based on reality (even though they may toss an application in there and see if legacy pulls out a rabbit).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To those of you who say - my kid is 17-18, I let them make their own choices - you are out of your mind. Their judgement doesnt fully develop until thier mid 20's. Do they have experience and life skills to know what the real world is really like? To know how hard it is to get a high paying job or into graduate school? No? Of course they want to have fun and take it easy. When they pay for it, they can decide. Until then, they are children.

Lady, you are the one who’s out of your mind. You just can’t let go. It’s your kids life, not yours. Your poor kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While not a billionaire or a power hungry authoritarian, I can tell you that my Frostburg alum family member has made a difference in many, many lives over the years. One of the absolute best people you will ever meet.

But, sure, let’s judge people’s worth by the name on a piece of paper rather than what they actually do for this world.

Many, many Ivy grads crashed our economy.

Frostburg was just pulled out of thin air.

However, you are conceding that while your family member has made a difference in people’s lives, it isn’t showing up in measurable metrics such as median earnings or other metrics which is all that either Malcolm Gladwell or anyone else can use to make their arguments.

You seem to have a problem with all successful people (as traditionally measured).

Having all the money and all the things doesn’t make you a good person.

My family member did ok, though. Lived a decent middle to upper middle class life, worked in public service jobs because it was his calling, helped so many people during his 40+ year career.

Sorry, I’m not impressed by the pursuit of money for money’s sake. What did you actually do for others in your time on this planet?

Again, many “traditionally successful” people made terrible decisions that hurt millions of people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While not a billionaire or a power hungry authoritarian, I can tell you that my Frostburg alum family member has made a difference in many, many lives over the years. One of the absolute best people you will ever meet.

But, sure, let’s judge people’s worth by the name on a piece of paper rather than what they actually do for this world.

Many, many Ivy grads crashed our economy.

Frostburg was just pulled out of thin air.

However, you are conceding that while your family member has made a difference in people’s lives, it isn’t showing up in measurable metrics such as median earnings or other metrics which is all that either Malcolm Gladwell or anyone else can use to make their arguments.

You seem to have a problem with all successful people (as traditionally measured).

Having all the money and all the things doesn’t make you a good person.

My family member did ok, though. Lived a decent middle to upper middle class life, worked in public service jobs because it was his calling, helped so many people during his 40+ year career.

Sorry, I’m not impressed by the pursuit of money for money’s sake. What did you actually do for others in your time on this planet?

Again, many “traditionally successful” people made terrible decisions that hurt millions of people.

+100

Money and “success” is all they care about. But nothing truly meaningful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a lot to be said for smaller colleges, but an Ivy? No. Students are too handpicked. The culture is too manufactured, like products in a gift shop. The collective intensity, anxiety and insecurity of students is too much.

So to answer your question, if your kid is interested is a big public flagship - wonderful. Smart kid.

You clearly do not have a kid at an ivy. The students are some of the most down to earth, real, inquisitive humans mine says they have ever met (and that is coming from a top private school which had a lot of cookie-cutter UMC kids most of whom were bright but not truly intellectual). Ivy students on average happen to be very driven but in a collaborative way, and also love to give back to their community and have fun on the weekends.
We know just as many anxious students at William&Mary and UVA as we do at the ivy. Anxiety and insecurity are common in all top schools not just ivies, and in fact in many ways there is less anxiety at the ivy once they are past freshman fall and realize that they do not have to gun it out to be at the top to get into a good law or med school.

That’s funny because the bottom third at a Harvard does not often do better than the top third at a non-Ivy.

The top third at any school will usually do well.

See Malcolm Gladwell’s talk on this topic for the data. He says it is most important to be the top third of the class at ANY college.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7J-wCHDJYmo

Gladwell's general premise stands, for the majority of the top 200 or so colleges, but there is a certain level of eliteness where success is available much deeper into the class than top third.
The bigger the difference in eliteness/ranking, the more "gunning it out" to be at the very top (ie top 10%) of college matters. Ivy /T10 kids do not need to worry as much, they can just be average or above. They still work hard, but they do not need to be as competitive with peers because there is room for many.
The ivy kids do not need to try to be top 10%. For JMU, VT the only kids getting into med school in the US are the top 10%, and that is often with gap years. William and Mary does much better than those two, but top third is very important. For the ivies, kids in the top HALF get into T50 med schools and kids deep into the bottom half get into med school in the US somewhere.
Law school is the same: T10 non-ivy sends anyone with an above average GPA(ie 3.8 there) to T14 law presuming they followed advice of advising and did the correct ECs/internships, which are readily available at the well resourced school. All the way deep into the bottom 1/4 of the class gets into a law school somewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To those of you who say - my kid is 17-18, I let them make their own choices - you are out of your mind. Their judgement doesnt fully develop until thier mid 20's. Do they have experience and life skills to know what the real world is really like? To know how hard it is to get a high paying job or into graduate school? No? Of course they want to have fun and take it easy. When they pay for it, they can decide. Until then, they are children.

IMO, if the parents are paying for it, they should be upfront on which colleges they are ok for kid to apply, as long as they are realistic about kid's chances. The parents who are T25-or-bust yet have a kid who does not have a chance at T50 need to be far more open minded and embrace the kid where they are and be supportive of colleges that will be a place their kid can thrive. Once the applications are set and done, and the parents have expressed any real limits (ie financial) it seems the final pick among acceptances in general should be by the kid.
If the parent has a true T25 type kid with drive and ambition (not parent initiated) and all the rest, it is unlikely they will get into multiple T25s and yet end up picking a place such as ___ where they can "take it easy".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While not a billionaire or a power hungry authoritarian, I can tell you that my Frostburg alum family member has made a difference in many, many lives over the years. One of the absolute best people you will ever meet.

But, sure, let’s judge people’s worth by the name on a piece of paper rather than what they actually do for this world.

Many, many Ivy grads crashed our economy.

Frostburg was just pulled out of thin air.

However, you are conceding that while your family member has made a difference in people’s lives, it isn’t showing up in measurable metrics such as median earnings or other metrics which is all that either Malcolm Gladwell or anyone else can use to make their arguments.

You seem to have a problem with all successful people (as traditionally measured).

Having all the money and all the things doesn’t make you a good person.

My family member did ok, though. Lived a decent middle to upper middle class life, worked in public service jobs because it was his calling, helped so many people during his 40+ year career.

Sorry, I’m not impressed by the pursuit of money for money’s sake. What did you actually do for others in your time on this planet?

Again, many “traditionally successful” people made terrible decisions that hurt millions of people.

I guess founding companies that employ millions of people doesn't qualify as "doing anything for others in your time on this planet".

Again, you are one of many on DCUM who believes all monetarily wildly successful people are evil.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While not a billionaire or a power hungry authoritarian, I can tell you that my Frostburg alum family member has made a difference in many, many lives over the years. One of the absolute best people you will ever meet.

But, sure, let’s judge people’s worth by the name on a piece of paper rather than what they actually do for this world.

Many, many Ivy grads crashed our economy.

Frostburg was just pulled out of thin air.

However, you are conceding that while your family member has made a difference in people’s lives, it isn’t showing up in measurable metrics such as median earnings or other metrics which is all that either Malcolm Gladwell or anyone else can use to make their arguments.

You seem to have a problem with all successful people (as traditionally measured).

Having all the money and all the things doesn’t make you a good person.

My family member did ok, though. Lived a decent middle to upper middle class life, worked in public service jobs because it was his calling, helped so many people during his 40+ year career.

Sorry, I’m not impressed by the pursuit of money for money’s sake. What did you actually do for others in your time on this planet?

Again, many “traditionally successful” people made terrible decisions that hurt millions of people.

I guess founding companies that employ millions of people doesn't qualify as "doing anything for others in your time on this planet".

Again, you are one of many on DCUM who believes all monetarily wildly successful people are evil.

DP
I don’t think monitarily wildly successful people are evil, I just don’t think they are as impressive a human as someone who makes less but does more to help people or meaningfully change the world for the better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To those of you who say - my kid is 17-18, I let them make their own choices - you are out of your mind. Their judgement doesnt fully develop until thier mid 20's. Do they have experience and life skills to know what the real world is really like? To know how hard it is to get a high paying job or into graduate school? No? Of course they want to have fun and take it easy. When they pay for it, they can decide. Until then, they are children.

And yet, millions of GenX thrived solo. 🤔

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While not a billionaire or a power hungry authoritarian, I can tell you that my Frostburg alum family member has made a difference in many, many lives over the years. One of the absolute best people you will ever meet.

But, sure, let’s judge people’s worth by the name on a piece of paper rather than what they actually do for this world.

Many, many Ivy grads crashed our economy.

Frostburg was just pulled out of thin air.

However, you are conceding that while your family member has made a difference in people’s lives, it isn’t showing up in measurable metrics such as median earnings or other metrics which is all that either Malcolm Gladwell or anyone else can use to make their arguments.

You seem to have a problem with all successful people (as traditionally measured).

Having all the money and all the things doesn’t make you a good person.

My family member did ok, though. Lived a decent middle to upper middle class life, worked in public service jobs because it was his calling, helped so many people during his 40+ year career.

Sorry, I’m not impressed by the pursuit of money for money’s sake. What did you actually do for others in your time on this planet?

Again, many “traditionally successful” people made terrible decisions that hurt millions of people.

I guess founding companies that employ millions of people doesn't qualify as "doing anything for others in your time on this planet".

Again, you are one of many on DCUM who believes all monetarily wildly successful people are evil.

LOL. I don’t think the Waltons have benefited society or the planet. Most of the jobs are $hitty and are underemployed causing them to use federal programs for employees. Definitely not the Sacklers, employing millions but devastating millions.

Shall we go on?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While not a billionaire or a power hungry authoritarian, I can tell you that my Frostburg alum family member has made a difference in many, many lives over the years. One of the absolute best people you will ever meet.

But, sure, let’s judge people’s worth by the name on a piece of paper rather than what they actually do for this world.

Many, many Ivy grads crashed our economy.

Frostburg was just pulled out of thin air.

However, you are conceding that while your family member has made a difference in people’s lives, it isn’t showing up in measurable metrics such as median earnings or other metrics which is all that either Malcolm Gladwell or anyone else can use to make their arguments.

You seem to have a problem with all successful people (as traditionally measured).

Having all the money and all the things doesn’t make you a good person.

My family member did ok, though. Lived a decent middle to upper middle class life, worked in public service jobs because it was his calling, helped so many people during his 40+ year career.

Sorry, I’m not impressed by the pursuit of money for money’s sake. What did you actually do for others in your time on this planet?

Again, many “traditionally successful” people made terrible decisions that hurt millions of people.

I guess founding companies that employ millions of people doesn't qualify as "doing anything for others in your time on this planet".

Again, you are one of many on DCUM who believes all monetarily wildly successful people are evil.

DP
I don’t think monitarily wildly successful people are evil, I just don’t think they are as impressive a human as someone who makes less but does more to help people or meaningfully change the world for the better.

I'm the poster with the Frostburg alum in the family, and I mostly agree with the above. If the company is ethical and is able to employ many people, great. I should hope the owner doesn't just horde all the money and does things for charity, too.

Sadly, many corporations treat their employees like garbage and they make their bazillions of dollars off of cost cutting and penny pinching to the detriment of others. I'm disgusted by those who are like this.

I will say that I don't have much in common with people who are driven by money for money's sake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While not a billionaire or a power hungry authoritarian, I can tell you that my Frostburg alum family member has made a difference in many, many lives over the years. One of the absolute best people you will ever meet.

But, sure, let’s judge people’s worth by the name on a piece of paper rather than what they actually do for this world.

Many, many Ivy grads crashed our economy.

Frostburg was just pulled out of thin air.

However, you are conceding that while your family member has made a difference in people’s lives, it isn’t showing up in measurable metrics such as median earnings or other metrics which is all that either Malcolm Gladwell or anyone else can use to make their arguments.

You seem to have a problem with all successful people (as traditionally measured).

Having all the money and all the things doesn’t make you a good person.

My family member did ok, though. Lived a decent middle to upper middle class life, worked in public service jobs because it was his calling, helped so many people during his 40+ year career.

Sorry, I’m not impressed by the pursuit of money for money’s sake. What did you actually do for others in your time on this planet?

Again, many “traditionally successful” people made terrible decisions that hurt millions of people.

I guess founding companies that employ millions of people doesn't qualify as "doing anything for others in your time on this planet".

Again, you are one of many on DCUM who believes all monetarily wildly successful people are evil.

LOL. I don’t think the Waltons have benefited society or the planet. Most of the jobs are $hitty and are underemployed causing them to use federal programs for employees. Definitely not the Sacklers, employing millions but devastating millions.

Shall we go on?

this

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While not a billionaire or a power hungry authoritarian, I can tell you that my Frostburg alum family member has made a difference in many, many lives over the years. One of the absolute best people you will ever meet.

But, sure, let’s judge people’s worth by the name on a piece of paper rather than what they actually do for this world.

Many, many Ivy grads crashed our economy.

Frostburg was just pulled out of thin air.

However, you are conceding that while your family member has made a difference in people’s lives, it isn’t showing up in measurable metrics such as median earnings or other metrics which is all that either Malcolm Gladwell or anyone else can use to make their arguments.

You seem to have a problem with all successful people (as traditionally measured).

Having all the money and all the things doesn’t make you a good person.

My family member did ok, though. Lived a decent middle to upper middle class life, worked in public service jobs because it was his calling, helped so many people during his 40+ year career.

Sorry, I’m not impressed by the pursuit of money for money’s sake. What did you actually do for others in your time on this planet?

Again, many “traditionally successful” people made terrible decisions that hurt millions of people.

I guess founding companies that employ millions of people doesn't qualify as "doing anything for others in your time on this planet".

Again, you are one of many on DCUM who believes all monetarily wildly successful people are evil.

LOL. I don’t think the Waltons have benefited society or the planet. Most of the jobs are $hitty and are underemployed causing them to use federal programs for employees. Definitely not the Sacklers, employing millions but devastating millions.

Shall we go on?

Like I said...you and PPs are like many on DCUM who believe wildly monetarily successful people are evil. You are angry at capitalism.

I will do the reverse...name me one that you believe is not.

[Anonymous]

capitalism run amok is pretty evil, when you get down to it. There are no protections or social systems built in. It is all about maximizing profit.

I really think I should have been born in a nordic country-they do a lot of things that I personally like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While not a billionaire or a power hungry authoritarian, I can tell you that my Frostburg alum family member has made a difference in many, many lives over the years. One of the absolute best people you will ever meet.

But, sure, let’s judge people’s worth by the name on a piece of paper rather than what they actually do for this world.

Many, many Ivy grads crashed our economy.

Frostburg was just pulled out of thin air.

However, you are conceding that while your family member has made a difference in people’s lives, it isn’t showing up in measurable metrics such as median earnings or other metrics which is all that either Malcolm Gladwell or anyone else can use to make their arguments.

You seem to have a problem with all successful people (as traditionally measured).

Having all the money and all the things doesn’t make you a good person.

My family member did ok, though. Lived a decent middle to upper middle class life, worked in public service jobs because it was his calling, helped so many people during his 40+ year career.

Sorry, I’m not impressed by the pursuit of money for money’s sake. What did you actually do for others in your time on this planet?

Again, many “traditionally successful” people made terrible decisions that hurt millions of people.

I guess founding companies that employ millions of people doesn't qualify as "doing anything for others in your time on this planet".

Again, you are one of many on DCUM who believes all monetarily wildly successful people are evil.

LOL. I don’t think the Waltons have benefited society or the planet. Most of the jobs are $hitty and are underemployed causing them to use federal programs for employees. Definitely not the Sacklers, employing millions but devastating millions.

Shall we go on?

Like I said...you and PPs are like many on DCUM who believe wildly monetarily successful people are evil. You are angry at capitalism.

I will do the reverse...name me one that you believe is not.

It's always the individual for me: not their $ or their lack of $. It's their character and values. Period. I know *ssholes and charlatans and cretins across very socioeconomic class, as well as truly beautiful people in each. Hating someone for what they have or don't have is not something I was raised to do.