If your kid is not interested in Ivys or top 20

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a defense mechanism. If I reject these schools first, they can’t reject me. I have seen parents say all kinds of cra@p when their kid had zero chance or the stats for a T10 or even T20.

DD has an uw 4.0, as many APs as her school will permit, and a 1500+ SAT. She has zero chance at a T10/T20 because she’s a white girl from the DMV, full-pay but not donor class, non-athlete, non-legacy. The door was closed before she was born by forces over which she has no control. Sure it’s a defense mechanism. I am attempting to defend my child against the belief, prevalent in Ivy admissions offices, that her race, gender, class, and hometown make her worthless.

Your DD sounds great and at least has a shot at T20 schools. If she's interested in such schools, she should apply. I speak from experience as my own unhooked DD got an Ivy and Ivy+ (but chose a SLAC because not everyone is as obsessed with prestige as DCUM).

But there's no need for the hyperbole about "worthlessness", which has a strong undercurrent of entitlement to it. And, honesty, your daughter will be completely fine even if she ends up having to go to an excellent school outside the T20.

There are prestigious LACs, too. I am just as impressed with an Amherst admit as a Harvard.

[Anonymous]

To those of you who say - my kid is 17-18, I let them make their own choices - you are out of your mind. Their judgement doesnt fully develop until thier mid 20's. Do they have experience and life skills to know what the real world is really like? To know how hard it is to get a high paying job or into graduate school? No? Of course they want to have fun and take it easy. When they pay for it, they can decide. Until then, they are children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a defense mechanism. If I reject these schools first, they can’t reject me. I have seen parents say all kinds of cra@p when their kid had zero chance or the stats for a T10 or even T20.

Is it really that difficult to believe that a good student may actually want to go to a college besides the Ivies?!

This. My son has friends from a year above play LAX at Yale, Brown, Dartmouth, Penn, Cornell, Pen State and others. He loves participating in sports but knows he won't get recruited.

His buddy at Penn State is having the best time over all his other friends attending these other schools. They are all superb universities, just not a place my high stat kid wants to attend.

I back his decision, whatever it is. Could he get into top 10-20? Maybe.

But he wants a large public flagship with school spirit. Whatever, its his choice and his life!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a defense mechanism. If I reject these schools first, they can’t reject me. I have seen parents say all kinds of cra@p when their kid had zero chance or the stats for a T10 or even T20.

Is it really that difficult to believe that a good student may actually want to go to a college besides the Ivies?!

This. My son has friends from a year above play LAX at Yale, Brown, Dartmouth, Penn, Cornell, Pen State and others. He loves participating in sports but knows he won't get recruited.

His buddy at Penn State is having the best time over all his other friends attending these other schools. They are all superb universities, just not a place my high stat kid wants to attend.

I back his decision, whatever it is. Could he get into top 10-20? Maybe.

But he wants a large public flagship with school spirit. Whatever, its his choice and his life!

Yes, becuase teenagers know the world and have judgement. Riiiiight. Is he paying for it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a lot to be said for smaller colleges, but an Ivy? No. Students are too handpicked. The culture is too manufactured, like products in a gift shop. The collective intensity, anxiety and insecurity of students is too much.

So to answer your question, if your kid is interested is a big public flagship - wonderful. Smart kid.

You clearly do not have a kid at an ivy. The students are some of the most down to earth, real, inquisitive humans mine says they have ever met (and that is coming from a top private school which had a lot of cookie-cutter UMC kids most of whom were bright but not truly intellectual). Ivy students on average happen to be very driven but in a collaborative way, and also love to give back to their community and have fun on the weekends.
We know just as many anxious students at William&Mary and UVA as we do at the ivy. Anxiety and insecurity are common in all top schools not just ivies, and in fact in many ways there is less anxiety at the ivy once they are past freshman fall and realize that they do not have to gun it out to be at the top to get into a good law or med school.

That’s funny because the bottom third at a Harvard does not often do better than the top third at a non-Ivy.

The top third at any school will usually do well.

See Malcolm Gladwell’s talk on this topic for the data. He says it is most important to be the top third of the class at ANY college.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7J-wCHDJYmo

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a lot to be said for smaller colleges, but an Ivy? No. Students are too handpicked. The culture is too manufactured, like products in a gift shop. The collective intensity, anxiety and insecurity of students is too much.

So to answer your question, if your kid is interested is a big public flagship - wonderful. Smart kid.

You clearly do not have a kid at an ivy. The students are some of the most down to earth, real, inquisitive humans mine says they have ever met (and that is coming from a top private school which had a lot of cookie-cutter UMC kids most of whom were bright but not truly intellectual). Ivy students on average happen to be very driven but in a collaborative way, and also love to give back to their community and have fun on the weekends.
We know just as many anxious students at William&Mary and UVA as we do at the ivy. Anxiety and insecurity are common in all top schools not just ivies, and in fact in many ways there is less anxiety at the ivy once they are past freshman fall and realize that they do not have to gun it out to be at the top to get into a good law or med school.

That’s funny because the bottom third at a Harvard does not often do better than the top third at a non-Ivy.

The top third at any school will usually do well.

See Malcolm Gladwell’s talk on this topic for the data. He says it is most important to be the top third of the class at ANY college.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7J-wCHDJYmo

I haven’t listened…but I assume he still means at a top 250 school.

I just don’t see how someone in the 33%ile at Frostburg is destined for greatness over the 50% at Harvard.

[Anonymous]

While not a billionaire or a power hungry authoritarian, I can tell you that my Frostburg alum family member has made a difference in many, many lives over the years. One of the absolute best people you will ever meet.

But, sure, let’s judge people’s worth by the name on a piece of paper rather than what they actually do for this world.

Many, many Ivy grads crashed our economy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While not a billionaire or a power hungry authoritarian, I can tell you that my Frostburg alum family member has made a difference in many, many lives over the years. One of the absolute best people you will ever meet.

But, sure, let’s judge people’s worth by the name on a piece of paper rather than what they actually do for this world.

Many, many Ivy grads crashed our economy.

Well said. And so true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a defense mechanism. If I reject these schools first, they can’t reject me. I have seen parents say all kinds of cra@p when their kid had zero chance or the stats for a T10 or even T20.

Is it really that difficult to believe that a good student may actually want to go to a college besides the Ivies?!

I second this opinion. I wish more good students want to go to lower ranks schools so my kid has better chance at T20. It's a win win for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a defense mechanism. If I reject these schools first, they can’t reject me. I have seen parents say all kinds of cra@p when their kid had zero chance or the stats for a T10 or even T20.

Is it really that difficult to believe that a good student may actually want to go to a college besides the Ivies?!

This. My son has friends from a year above play LAX at Yale, Brown, Dartmouth, Penn, Cornell, Pen State and others. He loves participating in sports but knows he won't get recruited.

His buddy at Penn State is having the best time over all his other friends attending these other schools. They are all superb universities, just not a place my high stat kid wants to attend.

I back his decision, whatever it is. Could he get into top 10-20? Maybe.

But he wants a large public flagship with school spirit. Whatever, its his choice and his life!

Yes, becuase teenagers know the world and have judgement. Riiiiight. Is he paying for it?

Not the PP. Stupid and rude response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a defense mechanism. If I reject these schools first, they can’t reject me. I have seen parents say all kinds of cra@p when their kid had zero chance or the stats for a T10 or even T20.

Is it really that difficult to believe that a good student may actually want to go to a college besides the Ivies?!

This. My son has friends from a year above play LAX at Yale, Brown, Dartmouth, Penn, Cornell, Pen State and others. He loves participating in sports but knows he won't get recruited.

His buddy at Penn State is having the best time over all his other friends attending these other schools. They are all superb universities, just not a place my high stat kid wants to attend.

I back his decision, whatever it is. Could he get into top 10-20? Maybe.

But he wants a large public flagship with school spirit. Whatever, its his choice and his life!

Yes, becuase teenagers know the world and have judgement. Riiiiight. Is he paying for it?

Are you telling your kid where to go to university because of your "judgement"? Seems a little creepy for me. But you do you. I hope you control every aspect of your kids life!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a defense mechanism. If I reject these schools first, they can’t reject me. I have seen parents say all kinds of cra@p when their kid had zero chance or the stats for a T10 or even T20.

Is it really that difficult to believe that a good student may actually want to go to a college besides the Ivies?!

I second this opinion. I wish more good students want to go to lower ranks schools so my kid has better chance at T20. It's a win win for everyone.

I’m curious to see the data on Jewish students going to the Ivys this year, particularly Columbia. Columbia’s Jewish population has been over 20% for years and I have to think it will dip for this incoming class and even further for those entering in ‘25. Are these kids looking at other ivys? Other than maybe Dartmouth, I’m not so sure. I expect if they are anything like my son they are looking at the strong flagships (UVA,UMich, UNC, UF) and privates like Vandy, Duke, WashU. If all of the ivys lose even 1-2% of their Jewish admits, these high achieving kids have to go somewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a defense mechanism. If I reject these schools first, they can’t reject me. I have seen parents say all kinds of cra@p when their kid had zero chance or the stats for a T10 or even T20.

Is it really that difficult to believe that a good student may actually want to go to a college besides the Ivies?!

This. My son has friends from a year above play LAX at Yale, Brown, Dartmouth, Penn, Cornell, Pen State and others. He loves participating in sports but knows he won't get recruited.

His buddy at Penn State is having the best time over all his other friends attending these other schools. They are all superb universities, just not a place my high stat kid wants to attend.

I back his decision, whatever it is. Could he get into top 10-20? Maybe.

But he wants a large public flagship with school spirit. Whatever, its his choice and his life!

Yes, becuase teenagers know the world and have judgement. Riiiiight. Is he paying for it?

Is this a serious post?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a defense mechanism. If I reject these schools first, they can’t reject me. I have seen parents say all kinds of cra@p when their kid had zero chance or the stats for a T10 or even T20.

Is it really that difficult to believe that a good student may actually want to go to a college besides the Ivies?!

This. My son has friends from a year above play LAX at Yale, Brown, Dartmouth, Penn, Cornell, Pen State and others. He loves participating in sports but knows he won't get recruited.

His buddy at Penn State is having the best time over all his other friends attending these other schools. They are all superb universities, just not a place my high stat kid wants to attend.

I back his decision, whatever it is. Could he get into top 10-20? Maybe.

But he wants a large public flagship with school spirit. Whatever, its his choice and his life!

Yes, becuase teenagers know the world and have judgement. Riiiiight. Is he paying for it?

Love your post. No basis in reality. Tell me your "world" experience?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While not a billionaire or a power hungry authoritarian, I can tell you that my Frostburg alum family member has made a difference in many, many lives over the years. One of the absolute best people you will ever meet.

But, sure, let’s judge people’s worth by the name on a piece of paper rather than what they actually do for this world.

Many, many Ivy grads crashed our economy.

Frostburg was just pulled out of thin air.

However, you are conceding that while your family member has made a difference in people’s lives, it isn’t showing up in measurable metrics such as median earnings or other metrics which is all that either Malcolm Gladwell or anyone else can use to make their arguments.

You seem to have a problem with all successful people (as traditionally measured).