Freshman Math Placement

[Anonymous]

My guess is it’s more standard for geometry to be offered in middle school at public schools, not private. Perhaps I’m wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In our case, kid completed Algebra and Geometry in DCPS middle school and the private school placed him in honors Algebra I/Geometry as a freshmen. I'm okay with this, as the grade inflation at DCPS is out of hand, so an "A" can mean anything my mastery to a vague understanding of the material.

I’m very curious to see how this class goes. My child only took algebra in 8th and was placed in the honors algebra/geometry for the fall too. Sounds like it will be a mix of people and I’m wondering if she should start learning geometry this summer.

If this is the “principles of algebra and geometry” course at ncs here is the deal:

Kids who are weak in math coming from the MS or kids new to 9th who did poorly on the placement test. It usually is between 9-15 students, so small. This course was implemented as the weaker algebra students were not successful in geometry - either flat out failing it or killing themselves for a low grade (C or B) in the non-accelerated geometry. It covers all the geometry topics, but they do not make the kids do the really challenging problems or do proofs. They are prepared with enough geometry to be successful on ACT/SAT and in future math courses. Since the students have all seen algebra before (a requirement for NCS), this isn’t a full algebra course, but really remediates the basic core topics they need for success in algebra 2 and beyond - factoring, graphing lines, writing equations for lines, solving systems of equations, re-expressing formulas, dissecting word problems etc.

The student complete the course with a decent grade that won’t kill their GPA, didn’t have to overstretch themselves so they can spend adequate time on other things like physics and the intense writing for English and western civ, and then are placed into traditional algebra 2 as a sophomore allowing them to reach calculus senior year. Traditional algebra 2 is a better fit where they can be successful for this cohort compared to geometry for a few reasons:

They are a year older, more adjusted to the expectations of upper school

Geometry in 9th is either traditional geometry (still hard with proofs) or accelerated geometry (top 15-20ish kids). So that means in traditional geometry there are still some very strong students and the pace is fast. For tenth grade the lower kids from geometry and the kids from principles make up the algebra 2 class, the top kids from geometry and the lower kids from accelerated geometry move to accelerated algebra 2, and the top kids from accelerated geo move to honors algebra 2 with the gifted incoming freshmen who are permitted to skip geometry.

Aren’t most girls at NCS in Algebra II freshmen year? The concepts you are describing from Algebra I and geometry are very basic. Is it even allowed to be called geometry without proofs? Seems like most good students had geometry with proofst in middle school? I wouldn’t describe those type of kids as gifted, just average smart. Is NCS rigor just in other courses and not math?

Most freshman at ncs are in geometry. Those skills are indeed basic - which is why the students who did poorly on the assessment or in MS are placed there, it’s the bottom 1/8 of the class. The geometry courses are rigorous, accelerated is almost entirely proof based. These are also 14 year olds, not sophomores in college pursuing a math major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In our case, kid completed Algebra and Geometry in DCPS middle school and the private school placed him in honors Algebra I/Geometry as a freshmen. I'm okay with this, as the grade inflation at DCPS is out of hand, so an "A" can mean anything my mastery to a vague understanding of the material.

I’m very curious to see how this class goes. My child only took algebra in 8th and was placed in the honors algebra/geometry for the fall too. Sounds like it will be a mix of people and I’m wondering if she should start learning geometry this summer.

If this is the “principles of algebra and geometry” course at ncs here is the deal:

Kids who are weak in math coming from the MS or kids new to 9th who did poorly on the placement test. It usually is between 9-15 students, so small. This course was implemented as the weaker algebra students were not successful in geometry - either flat out failing it or killing themselves for a low grade (C or B) in the non-accelerated geometry. It covers all the geometry topics, but they do not make the kids do the really challenging problems or do proofs. They are prepared with enough geometry to be successful on ACT/SAT and in future math courses. Since the students have all seen algebra before (a requirement for NCS), this isn’t a full algebra course, but really remediates the basic core topics they need for success in algebra 2 and beyond - factoring, graphing lines, writing equations for lines, solving systems of equations, re-expressing formulas, dissecting word problems etc.

The student complete the course with a decent grade that won’t kill their GPA, didn’t have to overstretch themselves so they can spend adequate time on other things like physics and the intense writing for English and western civ, and then are placed into traditional algebra 2 as a sophomore allowing them to reach calculus senior year. Traditional algebra 2 is a better fit where they can be successful for this cohort compared to geometry for a few reasons:

They are a year older, more adjusted to the expectations of upper school

Geometry in 9th is either traditional geometry (still hard with proofs) or accelerated geometry (top 15-20ish kids). So that means in traditional geometry there are still some very strong students and the pace is fast. For tenth grade the lower kids from geometry and the kids from principles make up the algebra 2 class, the top kids from geometry and the lower kids from accelerated geometry move to accelerated algebra 2, and the top kids from accelerated geo move to honors algebra 2 with the gifted incoming freshmen who are permitted to skip geometry.

Aren’t most girls at NCS in Algebra II freshmen year? The concepts you are describing from Algebra I and geometry are very basic. Is it even allowed to be called geometry without proofs? Seems like most good students had geometry with proofst in middle school? I wouldn’t describe those type of kids as gifted, just average smart. Is NCS rigor just in other courses and not math?

8th grade math at NCS is Algebra I, so most 9th graders are in Geometry. This is common at most private schools. Girls joining the class in 9th grade from public schools tend to be more accelerated in math (geometry in 8th is more standard in public schools) and will often start 9th in Algebra II with the 10th grade girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is their explanation exactly?

They haven’t given one yet. My kid was adamant that they aced their math placement test (they took another placement test that they felt like he didn’t do well on, so I’ll take their word for it) and so my concern is that this is more about their resourcing and less about where the kid is at. But we’ll see.

Bingo! You are correct. They likely don’t have enough teachers to accommodate everyone at that level. Is your student a new 9th grader at school with a middle school? If yes, you found your explanation.

As far as being at a disadvantage, it just depends on where your student wants to go. Settle into the idea that your student is likely SLAC bound.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Algebra is the most importance math your child will ever take.

Your child did not ace it.

What is the issue, best case scenario they actually ace an honors class and bloat their GPA.

If that were true, the school would honestly disclose the score. Did they? If not, it’s resourcing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but we encountered this at SJC and they didn't budge on placement. They also did not allow for a retake then or at the end of the summer. If you don't make the Geometry cutoff for the summer you are SOL. You have no options to take it on your own and test out, etc. Its a bad system which leaves capable kids behind. We are currently stuck in it and assessing how much of an overall impact we think it will have. I do believe there is another opportunity to test into a summer program between 11th and 12th but thats pretty darn late.

This is good to know. I believe that Good Counsel is the same. Many of our middle schoolers who were in Algebra and even Geometry all only tested into Algebra I. However, those Geometry students who went to other high schools ended up in Algebra II and have done well.

What is wrong with your middle school's instruction that many students can't pass an Algebra 1 test after taking the class?

This is 100% true.

Without actually seeing the placement test, who really knows?

The lack of transparency is really the problem here.

[Anonymous]

For all these school administrators withholding scores: Did it ever occur to any of you that some parents want to know the scores so they know what the child doesn’t get? The sheer amount of resources outside of school to help address gaps is astounding. Parents who bother to pay tuition are probably not so cash strapped that they would rather punt their child’s academic weaknesses all the way to college.

Some of us are more concerned about college readiness anywhere than a branded ticket into College X at any cost.

I feel this way, and I don’t think I’m the only one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also I fought with the school over math placement in 8th grade. The principal was a jerk. I paid a coach to reach him math. He didn't need the coach and actually went ahead in course work and after finishing 4 or 5 units and acing the tests his teacher moved him up to the higher level class without telling the principal or us. My son has now been in accelerated math in 9th and 10th and getting A's. The kids that were placed in accelerated in 8th either were not invited in 9th or dropped it. Despite being right I now have a reputation for being "that mom" among middle school administration. I am also seen to have a big mouth because I talk about the situation to parents whose kids have similar problems. Part of it is he's twice gifted with dysgraphia and his learning plan and test scores were disregarded. They focused on his freaking handwriting. Being viewed as the big mouth has major disadvantages like I'm not invited to be on committees. Just be careful what you say and who you say it to. Just because you pay full tuition and generously donate to the school doesn't automatically mean your opinion matters at many private schools (or at least that is my experience).

Your last sentence says it all. The school clearly should have done better, but your idea that you can buy your way into having your way is not how this works. Gross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For all these school administrators withholding scores: Did it ever occur to any of you that some parents want to know the scores so they know what the child doesn’t get? The sheer amount of resources outside of school to help address gaps is astounding. Parents who bother to pay tuition are probably not so cash strapped that they would rather punt their child’s academic weaknesses all the way to college.

Some of us are more concerned about college readiness anywhere than a branded ticket into College X at any cost.

I feel this way, and I don’t think I’m the only one.

Why don’t you try asking for what you actually need - what areas should your child work on - instead of the score?

[Anonymous]

People here do not understand that they are not entitled to anything at a private school. The school is independent. That’s what you are paying for.

[Anonymous]

For that MUCH MONEY, I am ENTITLED to have my child have a RIGOROUS EDUCATION. If you think otherwise, you can SKEDADDLE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For that MUCH MONEY, I am ENTITLED to have my child have a RIGOROUS EDUCATION. If you think otherwise, you can SKEDADDLE.

Of course, but you are not entitled to buy your way into more access than other families. You are paying for a quality education, not a leg up over your fellow community members or to get your way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For that MUCH MONEY, I am ENTITLED to have my child have a RIGOROUS EDUCATION. If you think otherwise, you can SKEDADDLE.

Why are you yelling? Kids should be placed in classes that are challenging for them. The highest level of class is not appropriate for every kid. Why set your kid up for failure or make it harder for the teacher when there are kids in the class that should not be?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For that MUCH MONEY, I am ENTITLED to have my child have a RIGOROUS EDUCATION. If you think otherwise, you can SKEDADDLE.

Why are you paying so much money to people you don’t trust?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For that MUCH MONEY, I am ENTITLED to have my child have a RIGOROUS EDUCATION. If you think otherwise, you can SKEDADDLE.

Why are you paying so much money to people you don’t trust?

This post for the win.