Freshman Math Placement

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our son was in a similar situation. There are two things to consider here:

Algebra 1 taught by most middle schools is a watered down version of the high school Algebra 1 version.

The curriculum of "Algebra 1 honors" at some schools is more like Algebra 2 and precalc. This is the case at my son's high school.

I'd inquire about what exactly the Algebra 1 honors curriculum is before ruling it out.

Did not think about this. Very helpful- thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but we encountered this at SJC and they didn't budge on placement. They also did not allow for a retake then or at the end of the summer. If you don't make the Geometry cutoff for the summer you are SOL. You have no options to take it on your own and test out, etc. Its a bad system which leaves capable kids behind. We are currently stuck in it and assessing how much of an overall impact we think it will have. I do believe there is another opportunity to test into a summer program between 11th and 12th but thats pretty darn late.

This is good to know. I believe that Good Counsel is the same. Many of our middle schoolers who were in Algebra and even Geometry all only tested into Algebra I. However, those Geometry students who went to other high schools ended up in Algebra II and have done well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but we encountered this at SJC and they didn't budge on placement. They also did not allow for a retake then or at the end of the summer. If you don't make the Geometry cutoff for the summer you are SOL. You have no options to take it on your own and test out, etc. Its a bad system which leaves capable kids behind. We are currently stuck in it and assessing how much of an overall impact we think it will have. I do believe there is another opportunity to test into a summer program between 11th and 12th but thats pretty darn late.

This is good to know. I believe that Good Counsel is the same. Many of our middle schoolers who were in Algebra and even Geometry all only tested into Algebra I. However, those Geometry students who went to other high schools ended up in Algebra II and have done well.

What is wrong with your middle school's instruction that many students can't pass an Algebra 1 test after taking the class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but we encountered this at SJC and they didn't budge on placement. They also did not allow for a retake then or at the end of the summer. If you don't make the Geometry cutoff for the summer you are SOL. You have no options to take it on your own and test out, etc. Its a bad system which leaves capable kids behind. We are currently stuck in it and assessing how much of an overall impact we think it will have. I do believe there is another opportunity to test into a summer program between 11th and 12th but thats pretty darn late.

This is good to know. I believe that Good Counsel is the same. Many of our middle schoolers who were in Algebra and even Geometry all only tested into Algebra I. However, those Geometry students who went to other high schools ended up in Algebra II and have done well.

What is wrong with your middle school's instruction that many students can't pass an Algebra 1 test after taking the class?

NP. It’s a more widespread issue than you seem to think. SSSAS found that so many kids coming in from k-8s and other schools having taken Alg 1 in 7th and Geometry in 8th had gaps in both classes that they created a special combined 9th grade Algebra/Geometry class that is tailored each year to the specific gaps of those students so that none of them have to fully repeat a class (they don’t need a full repetition) or be forced off an advanced track that would allow them to take AP Calc in 12th. They aren’t fully prepared for Algebra 2, certainly not the Advanced or Honors Alg2/Trig that would get them to AP Calc. By taking the hybrid class, they have a chance of doing well enough to get on the advanced/honors track rather than being penalized for the failure of their previous schools. And the kids aren’t from just one or two k-8s, they come in from quite a range. Makes me think there’s just a real challenge in getting through all of the HS-level material in MS versions of these math classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our son was in a similar situation. There are two things to consider here:

Algebra 1 taught by most middle schools is a watered down version of the high school Algebra 1 version.

The curriculum of "Algebra 1 honors" at some schools is more like Algebra 2 and precalc. This is the case at my son's high school.

I'd inquire about what exactly the Algebra 1 honors curriculum is before ruling it out.

Does anyone have a sense of Gonzaga's math program? If anyone can speak to the strengths and weaknesses of their curriculum, that would be super helpful.

We do have some experience with Gonzaga's math program! My son was in Algebra in 8th grade, did extremely well on the HSPT math portion and Gonzaga's math placement test, I'd have to look back at his Gonzaga score but it was near perfect. We always had a math tutor in middle school even though he didn't really need one, just to help him along and up his confidence since I'm terrible with math and my husband isn't until most evenings (the math person). Gonzaga placed him in the *Howell* math class as a freshman - it's really the fast math track and only had 7 boys total - which is Geometry/Precalc and skipping Algebra 2. Was in Calc AB as a Sophomore and just wrapped up Calc BC as a Junior. I doubted this track many times over the past 3 years but he able to eek out an A in Calc BC. He was able to secure a recommendation for Linear Algebra as Senior.

Some boys dropped out of this particular math track and I would've been ok with this, too. I didn't mind the Bs but concerned he wasn't grasping the concepts but he assured he was and stuck with it. So happy he did because he feels accomplished because he's busy with his varsity sport and tutoring math/spanish at Gonzaga but all ended well. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our son was in a similar situation. There are two things to consider here:

Algebra 1 taught by most middle schools is a watered down version of the high school Algebra 1 version.

The curriculum of "Algebra 1 honors" at some schools is more like Algebra 2 and precalc. This is the case at my son's high school.

I'd inquire about what exactly the Algebra 1 honors curriculum is before ruling it out.

Does anyone have a sense of Gonzaga's math program? If anyone can speak to the strengths and weaknesses of their curriculum, that would be super helpful.

We do have some experience with Gonzaga's math program! My son was in Algebra in 8th grade, did extremely well on the HSPT math portion and Gonzaga's math placement test, I'd have to look back at his Gonzaga score but it was near perfect. We always had a math tutor in middle school even though he didn't really need one, just to help him along and up his confidence since I'm terrible with math and my husband isn't until most evenings (the math person). Gonzaga placed him in the *Howell* math class as a freshman - it's really the fast math track and only had 7 boys total - which is Geometry/Precalc and skipping Algebra 2. Was in Calc AB as a Sophomore and just wrapped up Calc BC as a Junior. I doubted this track many times over the past 3 years but he able to eek out an A in Calc BC. He was able to secure a recommendation for Linear Algebra as Senior.

Some boys dropped out of this particular math track and I would've been ok with this, too. I didn't mind the Bs but concerned he wasn't grasping the concepts but he assured he was and stuck with it. So happy he did because he feels accomplished because he's busy with his varsity sport and tutoring math/spanish at Gonzaga but all ended well. Good luck!

and need to add this; you can't ask Gonzaga to place your son in this math track - it's soley based on MS grades, HSPT and the placement test. It's not a choice or parent decison, strictly Gonzaga's assessment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s OK to reach out to the math chair (or the person who does the placement) and ask about the placement and the rationale behind it, but just be polite and not demanding or entitled. Ultimately, you may disagree with their rationale (or maybe you find that your kid didn’t do as well as he thought on the test), but you’re going to be there for four years so don’t establish yourself as a difficult family, especially if there’s an opportunity to take Geometry in the summer.

I would consider "difficult family" argument in a public school. In a private school, if my kid wants Geometry, they get Geometry. If it ends up being to hard... ...good lesson for the kid on judging their abilities.

I would listen to school's arguments against, but they better be VERY convincing.

What a terrible attitude. We’re paying for their expertise, not for them to roll over and give you whatever you ask for.

Agree. Life is full of disappointments and if your kid didn't meet the requirements, it's on them. There are online resources kids can do over a summer to help. I would never go to any school and demand my son be in a certain class as the responsibility is on my son.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but we encountered this at SJC and they didn't budge on placement. They also did not allow for a retake then or at the end of the summer. If you don't make the Geometry cutoff for the summer you are SOL. You have no options to take it on your own and test out, etc. Its a bad system which leaves capable kids behind. We are currently stuck in it and assessing how much of an overall impact we think it will have. I do believe there is another opportunity to test into a summer program between 11th and 12th but thats pretty darn late.

This is good to know. I believe that Good Counsel is the same. Many of our middle schoolers who were in Algebra and even Geometry all only tested into Algebra I. However, those Geometry students who went to other high schools ended up in Algebra II and have done well.

What is wrong with your middle school's instruction that many students can't pass an Algebra 1 test after taking the class?

NP. It’s a more widespread issue than you seem to think. SSSAS found that so many kids coming in from k-8s and other schools having taken Alg 1 in 7th and Geometry in 8th had gaps in both classes that they created a special combined 9th grade Algebra/Geometry class that is tailored each year to the specific gaps of those students so that none of them have to fully repeat a class (they don’t need a full repetition) or be forced off an advanced track that would allow them to take AP Calc in 12th. They aren’t fully prepared for Algebra 2, certainly not the Advanced or Honors Alg2/Trig that would get them to AP Calc. By taking the hybrid class, they have a chance of doing well enough to get on the advanced/honors track rather than being penalized for the failure of their previous schools. And the kids aren’t from just one or two k-8s, they come in from quite a range. Makes me think there’s just a real challenge in getting through all of the HS-level material in MS versions of these math classes.

I think SSSAS's approach seems really great. Having gaps in your knowledge is not something that shows lack of math ability or potential. I don't think it's an issue of a particular school but just that the curriculums across schools don't necessarily line up. One school might put more emphasis on a certain unit in Alg. 1 and others might wait on that topic and put that in Alg. 2.

[Anonymous]

When do schools share the results? DS took the math exam at O’Connell this morning and the foreign language one a few weeks ago. Do we find out when he gets his schedule, or is there notification before that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but we encountered this at SJC and they didn't budge on placement. They also did not allow for a retake then or at the end of the summer. If you don't make the Geometry cutoff for the summer you are SOL. You have no options to take it on your own and test out, etc. Its a bad system which leaves capable kids behind. We are currently stuck in it and assessing how much of an overall impact we think it will have. I do believe there is another opportunity to test into a summer program between 11th and 12th but thats pretty darn late.

This is good to know. I believe that Good Counsel is the same. Many of our middle schoolers who were in Algebra and even Geometry all only tested into Algebra I. However, those Geometry students who went to other high schools ended up in Algebra II and have done well.

What is wrong with your middle school's instruction that many students can't pass an Algebra 1 test after taking the class?

NP. It’s a more widespread issue than you seem to think. SSSAS found that so many kids coming in from k-8s and other schools having taken Alg 1 in 7th and Geometry in 8th had gaps in both classes that they created a special combined 9th grade Algebra/Geometry class that is tailored each year to the specific gaps of those students so that none of them have to fully repeat a class (they don’t need a full repetition) or be forced off an advanced track that would allow them to take AP Calc in 12th. They aren’t fully prepared for Algebra 2, certainly not the Advanced or Honors Alg2/Trig that would get them to AP Calc. By taking the hybrid class, they have a chance of doing well enough to get on the advanced/honors track rather than being penalized for the failure of their previous schools. And the kids aren’t from just one or two k-8s, they come in from quite a range. Makes me think there’s just a real challenge in getting through all of the HS-level material in MS versions of these math classes.

I wish that more parents who complain that their kids can't can't algebra 1 in 5th grade and calculus as 9th graders would read this. Early and fast is not better!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but we encountered this at SJC and they didn't budge on placement. They also did not allow for a retake then or at the end of the summer. If you don't make the Geometry cutoff for the summer you are SOL. You have no options to take it on your own and test out, etc. Its a bad system which leaves capable kids behind. We are currently stuck in it and assessing how much of an overall impact we think it will have. I do believe there is another opportunity to test into a summer program between 11th and 12th but thats pretty darn late.

This is good to know. I believe that Good Counsel is the same. Many of our middle schoolers who were in Algebra and even Geometry all only tested into Algebra I. However, those Geometry students who went to other high schools ended up in Algebra II and have done well.

What is wrong with your middle school's instruction that many students can't pass an Algebra 1 test after taking the class?

NP. It’s a more widespread issue than you seem to think. SSSAS found that so many kids coming in from k-8s and other schools having taken Alg 1 in 7th and Geometry in 8th had gaps in both classes that they created a special combined 9th grade Algebra/Geometry class that is tailored each year to the specific gaps of those students so that none of them have to fully repeat a class (they don’t need a full repetition) or be forced off an advanced track that would allow them to take AP Calc in 12th. They aren’t fully prepared for Algebra 2, certainly not the Advanced or Honors Alg2/Trig that would get them to AP Calc. By taking the hybrid class, they have a chance of doing well enough to get on the advanced/honors track rather than being penalized for the failure of their previous schools. And the kids aren’t from just one or two k-8s, they come in from quite a range. Makes me think there’s just a real challenge in getting through all of the HS-level material in MS versions of these math classes.

I think SSSAS's approach seems really great. Having gaps in your knowledge is not something that shows lack of math ability or potential. I don't think it's an issue of a particular school but just that the curriculums across schools don't necessarily line up. One school might put more emphasis on a certain unit in Alg. 1 and others might wait on that topic and put that in Alg. 2.

PP you’re responding to and yes, I totally agree. We’ve been very happy with DC’s math experience in SSSAS upper. DC really liked the teacher for the hybrid class, too, and is looking forward to having her again for the advanced honors precalc class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but we encountered this at SJC and they didn't budge on placement. They also did not allow for a retake then or at the end of the summer. If you don't make the Geometry cutoff for the summer you are SOL. You have no options to take it on your own and test out, etc. Its a bad system which leaves capable kids behind. We are currently stuck in it and assessing how much of an overall impact we think it will have. I do believe there is another opportunity to test into a summer program between 11th and 12th but thats pretty darn late.

This is good to know. I believe that Good Counsel is the same. Many of our middle schoolers who were in Algebra and even Geometry all only tested into Algebra I. However, those Geometry students who went to other high schools ended up in Algebra II and have done well.

What is wrong with your middle school's instruction that many students can't pass an Algebra 1 test after taking the class?

NP. It’s a more widespread issue than you seem to think. SSSAS found that so many kids coming in from k-8s and other schools having taken Alg 1 in 7th and Geometry in 8th had gaps in both classes that they created a special combined 9th grade Algebra/Geometry class that is tailored each year to the specific gaps of those students so that none of them have to fully repeat a class (they don’t need a full repetition) or be forced off an advanced track that would allow them to take AP Calc in 12th. They aren’t fully prepared for Algebra 2, certainly not the Advanced or Honors Alg2/Trig that would get them to AP Calc. By taking the hybrid class, they have a chance of doing well enough to get on the advanced/honors track rather than being penalized for the failure of their previous schools. And the kids aren’t from just one or two k-8s, they come in from quite a range. Makes me think there’s just a real challenge in getting through all of the HS-level material in MS versions of these math classes.

I wish that more parents who complain that their kids can't can't algebra 1 in 5th grade and calculus as 9th graders would read this. Early and fast is not better!

100% correct. Most reasonable post I have ever seen on this forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but we encountered this at SJC and they didn't budge on placement. They also did not allow for a retake then or at the end of the summer. If you don't make the Geometry cutoff for the summer you are SOL. You have no options to take it on your own and test out, etc. Its a bad system which leaves capable kids behind. We are currently stuck in it and assessing how much of an overall impact we think it will have. I do believe there is another opportunity to test into a summer program between 11th and 12th but thats pretty darn late.

This is good to know. I believe that Good Counsel is the same. Many of our middle schoolers who were in Algebra and even Geometry all only tested into Algebra I. However, those Geometry students who went to other high schools ended up in Algebra II and have done well.

What is wrong with your middle school's instruction that many students can't pass an Algebra 1 test after taking the class?

NP. It’s a more widespread issue than you seem to think. SSSAS found that so many kids coming in from k-8s and other schools having taken Alg 1 in 7th and Geometry in 8th had gaps in both classes that they created a special combined 9th grade Algebra/Geometry class that is tailored each year to the specific gaps of those students so that none of them have to fully repeat a class (they don’t need a full repetition) or be forced off an advanced track that would allow them to take AP Calc in 12th. They aren’t fully prepared for Algebra 2, certainly not the Advanced or Honors Alg2/Trig that would get them to AP Calc. By taking the hybrid class, they have a chance of doing well enough to get on the advanced/honors track rather than being penalized for the failure of their previous schools. And the kids aren’t from just one or two k-8s, they come in from quite a range. Makes me think there’s just a real challenge in getting through all of the HS-level material in MS versions of these math classes.

This is a great point and something I was not aware of. Admittedly I was disappointed that my kid who is taking Geometry this year didn't place into Algebra 2 but upon further digging, realized that he probably really is not ready.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Love math teacher problems!!

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When do schools share the results? DS took the math exam at O’Connell this morning and the foreign language one a few weeks ago. Do we find out when he gets his schedule, or is there notification before that?

Received results from SJC today. Math placement and language tests were given on April 27th. No score provided, just placement along with info to contact head of department if there are questions.